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All right, so now our next guest, it's Ray McGovern.
For 27 years, he was a CIA analyst.
At the end of his career, as Jack was mentioning earlier on today, he briefed Vice President George H.W. Bush for his morning briefings in the Reagan years.
And he's the co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.
He writes at ConsortiumNews.com, which is the website of the great Robert Perry.
And he also has a website at RayMcGovern.com.
Welcome back to the show, Ray.
How are you?
Thank you, Scott.
Doing well.
Good.
Very happy to have you here.
Tell me, why do they hate us?
Well, they hate our freedom and they hate our democracy, you know, and they hate that we have Walmart and all that stuff.
Now, you know, it's really gotten ridiculous because most Americans have been fed that line and have swallowed it.
It's not that they hate our freedom.
It's, of course, that they hate our policy.
They hate what we're doing in the Middle East.
You know, I was thinking, Scott, of doing a little different here this morning in terms of addressing these things since a new perspective is really needed.
But what we have is a Middle East that became really, really important when oil was substituted for coal on British warships, okay?
Oil came into its own and we haven't seen the end of it.
So what does that mean?
Well, that means that after World War II, when we became the sole remaining superpower in the world, it was then, right?
It wasn't later when the Soviet Union imploded.
We escaped from the war with lots of casualties but no real damage to our country.
We were the only one left, okay?
So the policy devised was concretized in the first policy paper of the newly established Policy Planning Council of the State Department.
It was written by a fellow who used to be my idol.
His name is George Kennan and he was my idol because he was the best Soviet expert in the world and that was my field of studies.
Now, what did Kennan say in that first policy document?
And this is relevant.
You're talking about NSC-68?
That's it.
Well, no, no.
This was Policy Planning Document 1-1, okay, 1947.
Here it is.
Okay.
Quote, We have about 50% of the world's wealth but only 6.3% of its population.
Our real task in the coming period is to maintain this position of disparity.
Now, to do that, we're going to have to dispense with all sentimentality and daydreaming.
We need not deceive ourselves that we can afford the luxury of altruism.
We should cease to talk about vague, unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of living standards, and democratization.
The day is not far off when we will have to deal in straight power concepts.
Period.
End quote.
Now, that has been our policy since then and that is why we're in the Middle East big time.
Oil, natural gas primarily.
And, you know, when our president says, as he did, I guess, in his big address there at the beginning of the year, we are the sole indispensable nation, right?
What does that mean?
That means that, you know, if so facto, every other nation is, you got it, dispensable.
And, you know, for Hillary Clinton to be talking about democratization and we're pushing democracy here and there against this kind of background, which is so blatantly obvious to anyone who looks at Iraq, anybody who looks at even Afghanistan and now Iran, you know, it really doesn't ring true.
And so what the American people need to know is that there are big troubles in the Middle East.
We're no longer near as able to handle them, if that's the right word, as we were before.
And we've got trouble coming down the road, not only in Libya, but in all these other places that don't hate us.
I mean, the Iranians, they like Americans.
They hate our policies and they hate what our policies lead them into, which is a lot of misery.
All right.
Now, I hate to interrupt here.
And I don't really want to take you off the track of what you're saying.
Of course, I agree with every bit of it.
But I just wanted to point out how mistaken and just ignorant and wrong Cannon's theory was that actually mercantilism had been debunked by Adam Smith as necessary for the health of a nation back in 1776.
And that's Cannon is basically talking like an old royalist, not any kind of American at all.
Well, you know, in many respects, I've learned more recently.
Cannon was a patrician royalist.
I mean, he he hung around Princeton.
He was so well, well born, so to speak.
He had a silver spoon in his mouth.
And even though his policy toward him containing the Soviet Union after the war was a smart one, was why containment is dismissed now is not a good idea is beyond me.
But he did have this this aversion to thinking of little brown people with bare feet that they could measure up to us.
And it's as long as we need to control half of the world's resources.
You know, we couldn't worry about them.
We could talk about.
And so Adam Smith was great.
You know, he also talked about constraining the open market.
You know, all this business about Smith.
Well, you know, he had an eye for the young, for the for the downtrodden people, for the workers.
But the patricians like Cannon apparently didn't.
And that's been the policy ever since.
And people don't realize that.
Yeah.
You know, I wish I had a good footnote for where people could find the archive of this.
But there is a great clip.
Oh, I know where it is.
It's Norman Solomon and and War Made Easy.
He's got such great archival footage in there.
And one of the clips is Dwight Eisenhower saying in a word, look, if the communists take over Vietnam, we'll have to pay the market price for tungsten.
We don't want that.
You know, that's basically what he's saying.
Bummer.
Anyway, so this is why this is why America inherited the Middle East, is because somebody's got to secure that.
By the way, everybody hates the Koch so much.
Well, the Cato Institute showed back in like 1995 or something back when it was, you know, Clinton's empire was cheap compared to this thing.
They said we spend already then we spend more, quote unquote, securing the oil in the Middle East than we actually spend on oil in the Middle East.
The whole thing is so obviously destructive and self-destructive.
It's ridiculous.
Yeah.
When the Martians who will inevitably take over this planet in about 100 years, when they write the history books, it's going to be really embarrassing how dumb they all were.
Exactly.
Oh, those Americans that Jean-Luc Picard picture with the face palm there.
Ridiculous.
OK, so now back on subject here, you mentioned that they don't hate us.
Pretty broad terms and whatever, but I just wanted to prove you right.
There's a great book by the Gallup poll and they did an entire book, a more than year long survey in every predominantly Muslim country in the world.
I don't even think all majority Muslim countries, but anywhere where there's a real big plurality of them, even they went and surveyed Muslims everywhere who all said, of course, they love America.
They all wish they were as free as Americans are in their crappy country where they happen to be stuck and they didn't have a problem with any of that stuff.
What they have a problem with is the Marine Corps and the CIA drone pilots.
Yeah.
You know, already it had been changing even before George Bush came into office.
I remember my CIA colleagues back in 2000 really pointed out that a recent polling in the Muslim states indicated that there was a real groundswell of opposition to U.S. policies and that the U.S. was coming across as arrogant, self-centered and completely oblivious to human rights.
In other words, direct descendant of the first policy planning paper.
And that was presented to the Bush administration as they came in and it formed the backdrop of the more sensible analyses of what was going on in the Middle East and to include places like Iraq and Iran.
Nobody paid any attention to it.
As we all know, when Cheney was, even before he picked himself to be vice president, when he was head of Halliburton, he made a speech, open speech, and he said, you know, I really resent, I really resent people criticizing us for not developing new sources of oil.
Now, most of you should know that the real prize, his term, the real prize lies in the Persian Gulf.
And a lot of those regimes there are not friendly to us.
End quote.
That was 1999.
Well, as soon as he got in with George Bush, they were going after Iraq no matter what happened, even 9-11 aside.
And so, you know, the whole thing was about oil and what were perceived to be Israeli interests.
And then, of course, the general strategic objective of having permanent, well, I'm not supposed to say permanent anymore, enduring military bases, right, in Iraq, in Afghanistan.
And that pipe dream is still alive, even though our ability to maintain that kind of thing is diminished.
Well, now, Robert A. Pape, he's the professor at the University of Chicago who wrote first, Dying to Win, the Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, and then a follow-up, Cutting the Fuse, which incorporated all the data from Iraq and all kinds of stuff.
Basically, he's the guy that says, he shows with the numbers that suicide terrorism is a problem of foreign occupation.
And the different-er the occupiers from the occupiees, the more likely you're going to have suicide terrorism as a result.
But one of the things he talked about was how, even though, and this is something Michael Shoyer has talked about as well, even though the super-duper majority of the entire Muslim world, Arabs and non-Arabs, agreed with bin Laden's diagnosis of American foreign policy, it was only the very smallest minority who agreed with what he said ought to be done about it.
But on the Arabian Peninsula, where the question was, hey, what do you think about the Americans having an air force base here?
The answer was, and of course they didn't ask any ladies, although I don't know why they would have answered any different, but the male population of Saudi Arabia said by 91% we want those bases out of here.
So just because the king says it's okay, might be enough for the American politicians to tell themselves that it's not a problem.
But you know what?
Even Lloyd Benson, I don't know my footnote for this, but Lloyd Benson, the old Texas oil guy and Dukakis' running mate in 1988, he warned George H.W. Bush back in 1990, don't put troops in Saudi Arabia, you're going to drive the crazies crazy there, don't do it.
That was back when they first invaded Kuwait, that was the warning from Lloyd Benson, so it fell on deaf ears.
But they could have, should have known all along.
Maybe they did and thought, well great, we'll just have a better excuse to intervene more later on.
Yeah, probably the people they talk to in Saudi Arabia tell them, well, you know, everything's under control.
You know, there are 91% people against a lot of what we do, but hey, you know, we have your well-trained CIA guys training our guys, and we keep the lid on here.
So I could see that Cheney and Bush made that terrible mistake by being reassured by the people they talked to that it would work out okay, and of course we know it didn't.
There's a clip of Ron Paul in 1997 saying, Mr. Speaker, we were warned this week by the government of Saudi Arabia that our presence in the Middle East and our blockade and bombing of Iraq is causing some major problems for them and could cause problems for us with terrorism, etc.
So I don't know specifically which warning he's referring to, but it doesn't surprise me that Ron Paul was the one congressman who noticed it back then.
Well, I could go back just a second to Pape and talking about suicide bombings and suicide, just general suicides, which were not prevalent in the Middle East before we started really getting in there 10 years ago.
You remember the three people in Guantanamo who succeeded in killing themselves within an hour of one another after being apparently tortured?
Only if you're being facetious, yeah.
Yeah, well, I remember that.
It was the other Scott Horton.
I don't want anyone to be confused.
It was the other Scott Horton, the heroic anti-torture human rights lawyer from Harper's Magazine, who showed that that wasn't quite right.
Yeah, now the point of my saying that is what was the reaction of the commandant down there at Gitmo?
They're trying to make us look bad.
Well, it was worse than that.
This is a prime example of asymmetrical warfare being waged against the United States.
Asymmetrical warfare.
That's pretty bad, you know, the way they kill each other just to make us look bad.
Like you said, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State said the same thing.
This is really, really a sneaky way of making us look bad.
So, you know, that's how divorced from reality these folks are.
They're not able to see that it's our policies.
And, you know, the people who debriefed or interrogated the real jihadists who came into Iraq in 05, let's say in 06, 90% of those real jihadists from outside Iraq came in because of what they saw at Gitmo and what they saw at Abu Ghraib, and they all said so.
So, you know, this may be asymmetrical warfare, but it's enough to have us tuck tail and get out of Iraq.
And God help us, I don't know what we're still doing, killing people in Afghanistan when that thing has been lost years ago, but we're still doing that as well.
Well, we're just provoking our friends into killing our ambassadors in Libya, that's all.
Well, yeah.
So it's a problem when you're fighting al-Qaeda in Pakistan, which includes Libyans, and yet you're surrounded by your al-Qaeda friends in Libya.
Yeah, that might blow up in your face there.
Hey, so you're just saying there about the obliviousness.
Maybe this is the same topic.
So I saw Hillary Clinton at Andrews Air Force Base.
Hillary, the Secretary of State, and the President Obama both gave talks here when the bodies arrived at Andrews.
I'm not sure why Andrews, not Dover, but whatever.
So Hillary gave her talk, and part of her talk was she said, and of course she's talking about a real human being, someone who worked for her in the State Department.
So she says, and she really is, I think, completely flabbergasted.
And all of this, it makes no sense.
A whole region up in arms and riots and death over some YouTube video that we didn't, and she's pointing at herself with all ten fingers, that we didn't even have anything to do with.
And she literally, she just, she can't understand it.
And I'm sitting there, I really learned something.
Wow, Hillary Clinton, she doesn't really just lie to us all day.
She really lies to herself all day.
She really thinks this is about a YouTube.
She really can't understand, she's just absolutely beside herself.
That someone could have died over something so trivial.
Yeah, well, you know, no one can plumb the depths of somebody else's mind.
But unless you're willing to accept the premise that Hillary Clinton is dumb, which I'm not.
But you can be a certain kind of ignorant, you know, because I think she's a really smart lady too.
But she's not very wise.
I mean, the way that she said it anyway, I mean, I'll leave it to you, watch the thing for yourself or whatever.
But the way that I saw it was, like, that was a real bit of, like, the honest Hillary Clinton shining through there.
She really was just so confused by this thing, you know?
Well, you know, this is open to dialogue or interpretation.
I guess I'm a little prejudiced, Scott, because when I stood up and turned my back on her at a speech there a year or two ago, without batting an eyelash, and she was talking about civil rights in Iran, two of her goons came down and really, really buffed me up, carried me out of the hall, beat me up, put me in prison for a while, all because I had silently turned my back on her.
So I don't think this woman has much in the way of what we'd call compassion or even understanding of other people.
So maybe we're saying the same thing.
I don't think she understands, for example, what happened.
Oh, yeah, I wasn't trying to portray her as having humanity.
I guess I was just trying to, you know, in this case, I think this Stevens guy had humanity to her because he was that close to her, right?
He worked for her, and she actually knew him.
And so here, you know, she drinks the blood of innocence all day long, but this guy's life matters to her for whatever reason.
But she just seemed mystified that people could be so upset over YouTube, and she really didn't seem to be incorporating anything else that she knows about what she does to people over there that might make them want to hate her or somebody who works for her personally, you know?
Yeah, that's it.
You know, that's the core.
In other words, what I've learned the last several years is that personal experience, personal experience with innocent suffering is the only thing that is guaranteed to make the kind of impact on a human being where that human being steps back and says, my God, you know, what about this?
This kind of experience has the chance of moving some compassion from a soul and even moving it to some reflection and then action in the best of cases.
Now, you know, I just cite Dan Ellsberg, for example.
Everybody knows what he did in the Defense Department, but it wasn't until he got over to Vietnam, again, not in the Marines anymore, but went through the rice paddies and saw what was happening to the Vietnamese people.
It was then.
That was the shock that hit him.
And this kind of thing is replayed time and time again.
So Hillary Clinton, you know, I don't think she's ever been with a person who is a victim or an innocent sufferer, and that's what she needs because only that can move the heart and make her see that, let her go to the West Bank, let her go to Gaza, let her see what's going on there, and then maybe she would think twice about giving Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants.
Yeah.
Well, and see, that really gets right down to the root of it.
And these footnotes, you'd have to actually want to find them because they're never going to talk about it on TV, not deliberately anyway.
But, you know, the FBI was asked in front of the 9-11 Commission.
Well, so what's the motivation of these guys anyway?
And it seems like someone would have told, you know, keen to not ask the question or whichever one it was that asked the question.
But there they went ahead and asked it.
And it's funny because all the FBI guys, and people can find this on YouTube, all the FBI guys look at each other like, oh, man, I don't want to be the one who says it.
And so finally Jenkins or whatever sticks his hand up and says, well, it's because of Israel.
It's because we support Israel and Palestine, and they seem to really identify with that.
Yeah, well, there you go.
Yeah, I watched that intently.
And a fellow I know, we used to work with, the CIA was the first one to sort of swallow hard and turn a look to his right to all the other panelists saying, please, God, please move one of these people to answer because I can't bother with this.
It was just so bad, you know.
So, yeah.
Hey, I got another anecdote like that, and I think it's important, actually.
It's from the book Perfect Soldiers by Terry McDermott, an L.A. Times reporter.
And it's a biography of the Hamburg cell, basically, the leader pilots, hijackers.
And he's talking about Mohammed Atta and Ramzi bin al-Sheib and their, you know, four closest friends or whatever at their apartment where they hung out in Hamburg, Germany.
And how they would just sit around in the afternoon complaining about Israel and talking about how Americans need to pay for what Israel's doing in Lebanon today, for what Israel's doing in Palestine today.
And that was the conclusion that they came to before they ever even went to Afghanistan.
Well, you know, that plays out in many ways, even if you look at the two of the people that did terrorism or tried them.
Now, I'm thinking about the Jordanian doctor, okay, who wanted to go to Gaza after the Israelis had murdered 1,400 civilians and suffered only four or ten, I guess it was, losses themselves.
And he wanted to go minister to the people in Gaza.
And instead, the Jordanian Secret Service, you know, in liaison with our own, said, no, no, if you want to go to Gaza, well, no, we want you to go to Afghanistan because you have a good way of, you can infiltrate Osama bin Laden's cell there.
So he gets really, he says, well, okay, sure, I'll do that.
So he goes and he gets himself ingratiated with it.
Then he lets a little message out to CIA folks, hey, I could come to host in Afghanistan and give you the real lowdown on what's going on with Osama bin Laden.
Now, the amateurs of CIA said, wow, oh, man, this is two promotions, you know, yeah, let's get him.
So he goes to host and he blows up eight CIA officers and the Jordanian guy with him.
Now, why did he do that?
He did that because of Gaza.
Now, the Israelis were the ones that bombed the hell out of Gaza, yes, but he knew.
He was an educated MD doctor.
He knew that the Israelis would not do anything like that unless they had carte blanche from, in this case, George Bush.
And Obama didn't say diddly either.
Three weeks of this havoc and nobody said anything.
So he said, well, OK, these guys want to, quote, recruit me, end quote.
I'll be recruited and see how much damage I can do.
So he killed eight CIA operatives.
The Abdulmutallab, the underwear bomber over Detroit, this guy was a upper class Nigerian.
Now, why would he want to do that?
He went to Yemen and they told him what happened in Gaza.
And people in Yemen said, you know, change the guy around.
And so he was willing to do this little underpants bomb.
It didn't work.
But the point is that these things have consequences, little consequences, not so little, but, you know, medium scale consequences.
And then very large ones.
And we're not through it.
For the end of the week, we're going to see more of the very large ones.
Yeah.
Well, you know, Faisal Shahzad, look at his case.
It'll blow you away.
I mean, this guy was an American.
He wasn't a Nigerian who was hanging out with some crazies in Yemen.
He was an American, had a big house and a wife and an education and a good job with a higher salary than I'll probably ever make in my life.
And he was doing just fine with his American dream and his freedom and, you know, ability to vote in primary elections if he wanted to.
Like that matters and that kind of thing.
And then he went to Pakistan and he saw firsthand the results of American drone strikes on, you know, people from, I guess, his, you know, uncle's tribes, neighborhood or whatever the hell.
And then he volunteered as a soldier on their side had nothing to do with, you know, he found a closer relationship with Mohammed or whatever the hell it was all about.
Simply, he joined up as a soldier in the war for them.
And he tried to bomb Times Square.
Luckily, his bomb fizzled, but he could have killed a lot of people in Times Square.
That could have been, that could have gone much, much worse than it did.
It was a very lucky break there.
Yeah, the ones that, you know, were prevented and the one in Host certainly should have prevented by elementary security measures to check this guy before he came on to the CIA base.
The ones that were permitted were not permitted by the Homeland Security folks or the FBI or anybody else.
And Times Square, it was what a shirt, a T-shirt seller.
And on the plane over Detroit, it was a bunch of Americans.
That's all he was trying to do.
And it snuffed out the match.
So, you know, one other example, I think.
You might conclude we don't need the state at all, Ray.
Sorry, go ahead.
There's one other classic case that nobody knows about.
If we have one more minute, I'd like to just expose people.
Please, please.
Yeah, all right.
You'll recall when those three Blackwater types took a wrong turn near Fallujah and got caught up in a mob.
And the mob treated them terribly, killed them and hung them from a bridge.
In the spring of 2004.
Right, okay.
Now, that was the beginning of an incredible spiral of violence.
Bush immediately ordered the Marines to attack Fallujah and then realized that they wouldn't do real well there with all they had.
So they postponed it until after the election, after which, one week after the election, Fallujah was leveled.
Okay?
Now, people say, well, you know, they did this to our guys who we can't.
Guess what?
That wasn't the first part of the spiral.
The first part of the spiral was eight days previous.
The Israelis assassinated Yassin, is his name.
He was the spiritual leader of all the folks in Lebanon.
He was in a wheelchair.
He was very well respected.
Actually, he helped the Israelis found Hamas.
Okay?
So he was a Hamas leader and he was killed with great disrespect.
And that was eight days previous.
Now, what's the connection?
Well, the people that were dragging the bodies through Fallujah had on their cars, we are the Yassin Revenge Brigade.
Yassin Revenge Brigade.
In the windows of all the shops.
Okay?
So it was the first step the Israelis did.
Now, we didn't do it, the Israelis.
Well, you know, people make no distinction.
And that's the really important point.
No distinction between what the Israelis do and what we do because we provide them with the wherewithal to do what they do.
So there it was.
Yassin was killed and then the Blackwater guys took the revenge for that.
And the people of Fallujah, many of the children of which are being born with horrible birth defects because of depleted uranium and phosphorus stuff that's left over from that terrible offensive we did there, all those people are paying the price.
And we'll be paying the price for a long time for letting this kind of thing happen.
So bottom line here is that when the spiral starts, it's not always evident where it really starts.
And it was only from eyewitnesses in Fallujah that we got the story.
Not in the mainstream press, of course, but we got the story about all these placards saying Yassin Revenge Brigade.
And I'm really sorry to dumb this down completely, but I think it's really necessary in a world where, at least in a country where the best most people have about what's going on in the world is CNN and things like that.
It could be that people really do believe.
I think back to what my impression, I guess, when I was much younger was that people are just fighting over the land over there.
And God gave it to us, no God gave it to us, so let's all fight about it.
And oh yeah, all the Arabs are just such anti-Semites and all their hatred is what drives all of their terrible terrorism against the Israelis and whatever.
And there's this single massive fact that's completely omitted from that narrative, which is that Israel has been using its military to occupy the West Bank and the Gaza Strip since 1967.
And the people that live there live like helots.
They're basically, you know, I don't know, you go on from there if you want.
But Americans don't really understand this.
They really don't.
They think that it's, you know, they say land for peace.
You know, they say, well, when are the Palestinians going to get their act together and get ready to negotiate seriously and all of this?
When they're prisoners.
They're not in any position to negotiate anything.
They're occupied people.
And they're just, the language that's used to describe this in the glittering generalities that are used in American media might lead Americans to really have no idea.
Like, jeez, does Ray McGovern hate Jews or something?
Why would he take the side of them screaming Arab crazies against the Israelis?
Yeah.
Well, you know, again, when you have a direct experience with human suffering, it's really an indispensable part of your calculus.
And I was there.
Okay.
I've been to the West Bank.
And I've seen the conditions there.
But, Jerry, a very short story here.
We went up on these super highways that only tourists and Jews can use, went up to one of the top of the hills of these glistening alabaster cities, okay?
And we saw the stench below.
We saw how the Palestinians had to live and how the well-watered lawns that we saw at the top of the hill were fed with water that the Palestinians desperately needed.
So we're having this session with the head of this municipality.
And he happens to be a Jewish fellow from Cleveland.
Okay.
So somebody said, one of our small delegations says, well, hey, we saw the conditions at the bottom of the hill.
How do you justify taking over this land and, you know, creating new facts on the ground the way you explain it?
Well, the Cleveland fellow says, look, it's very simple.
He picked up his Bible.
He says, God promised us.
God promised us the promised land.
It's our land.
It's about the land.
Okay.
He says, Deuteronomy 15.4, you shall have the promised land.
Now, Scott, I'm a Catholic, and we didn't learn much about the Old Testament, but I did know what Deuteronomy 15.4 says.
And he only gave us half of it.
And so I said, why did you only give us half of Deuteronomy 15.4?
He said, what do you mean?
I said, read the rest of it.
The rest of it says, so that there shall be no poor among you.
In other words, it was a deal.
It was a covenant.
You shall have some land if you treat people with justice.
And that kind of deal, both sides need to live up to that.
And, well, he disputed.
No, no, no.
God says all about the land.
But, you know, that sort of crystallized for me how people can distort what they see in Bibles and the Koran and everything else to justify just about anything their own selfish hearts desire.
And without any compassion, without any – I'll bet he never goes to the bottom of the hill.
I'll bet he's never been in a Palestinian home.
Without that, you can't really make intelligent, cogent, and ethical decisions.
Yeah.
And if he can't, then what's somebody in the middle of Colorado or someplace supposed to know or do about it?
Get it right.
That's the worst part.
I just picked Colorado because it's in the middle.
I don't know.
All right.
Thanks so much for your time, Ray.
It's always great to talk to you.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome, Scott.
Goodbye now.
All right, everybody.
That's the great Ray McGovern, veteran intelligence professional for sanity.
He.
Find him at ConsortiumNews.com.
He's got one today at AntiWar.com, Why the Mideast Exploded.
And also check out his website at RayMcGovern.com.
In an empire where Congress knows nothing, the ubiquitous D.C. think tank is all.
And the Israel lobby and their neocon allies must own a dozen.
Well, Americans have a lobby in Washington, too.
It's called the Council for the National Interest at CouncilForTheNationalInterest.org.
They advocate for us on Capitol Hill.
Join CNI to demand an end to the U.S.
-sponsored occupation of the Palestinians and an end to our government's destructive empire in the Middle East.
That's the Council for the National Interest at CouncilForTheNationalInterest.org.
