08/05/13 – Daniel McAdams – The Scott Horton Show

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Okay, now our next guest is the great Daniel McAdams.
I don't want to give him too much credit, because I think Ron Paul is pretty much always good on all foreign policy issues anyway.
But it sure doesn't hurt that he's got Daniel McAdams around.
He was Ron Paul's foreign policy advisor in his congressional office, and now runs the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.
Welcome back to the show.
Dan, how are you doing?
Great to be with you, Scott.
Thanks for having me back.
Well, I'm very happy to have you here on the show.
And it's funny, for years and years, we'd email back and forth, but I never could interview you, because you're Ron Paul's congressional staff and you've got to kind of mind your business and all that.
But now I can have you on whenever I want.
So I should have you on all the time, I think.
I really like what you write there at the Ron Paul Institute.
And the one that caught my eye this morning was about John McCain.
And I don't know, man.
I'm the first one to say there's no difference between any of them or what have you.
But every time that John McCain is in the news, I am just thankful he lost.
I'll never be thankful Obama won, but I will always be thankful that John McCain lost and is not the president of the United States.
We might all be dead in a nuclear war with the Russians right now.
What do you think?
That's very possible.
If you remember back when Georgia was aggressive toward Russia back in 2008, McCain was the one basically pushing for us to get behind Georgia and go to nuclear war with Russia.
So that certainly is something that's on his mind quite often.
Yeah, well, and he's got to screw loose, man.
And I've got a short temper too.
I can relate to him.
But don't give me nuclear buttons, that's all.
You know what's interesting about John McCain and I think why he's so hot on Russia, and I think what we're talking about is his comments that we had up on the site, his irritation with Russia for giving temporary asylum to Ed Snowden.
But John McCain, our U.S. ambassador to Russia, McFaul, Michael McFaul, and the darling Russian blogger of the neocons here, Alexei Navalny, they all have one thing in common, which is that they were all on the payroll of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the U.S.'s regime change organization.
So this is something that they all have in common, and they also share that with people like Susan Rice.
So this is something they've had in common in their background.
Of course, McCain is still the head of the International Republican Institute, and McFaul was the head of the National Democratic Institute in Russia in the early 90s.
So they've got a long run.
So the NED, explain that a little bit.
This used to be the CIA's job, fomenting revolutions and that kind of thing.
I guess it still is in a way.
So why do they even need the NED?
What is the NED exactly?
Well, you know, this was a brainchild of the early neocons who infiltrated the Reagan administration, and in 1983 they convinced him that we basically need an overt organization that will do to the Soviets what the CIA is trying to do in secret, which is, you know, regime change, ending communism.
And, you know, there are objections to what they did at the time, but at least we should all be able to agree that once that particular job was done and the Soviet Union ceased to exist, these guys should have shut up their shop, closed up shop, just like NATO should have.
But rather than do that, they kicked it into overdrive.
The National Endowment for Democracy has been headed since its beginning by a follower of Leon Trotsky, so his philosophy is the permanent revolution that used to be a communist revolution and now it's a so-called permanent democratic revolution.
So it really is something that belongs in a museum tucked away somewhere rather than pumped up on steroids, which is what they are right now.
Well, and great use of the term so-called there, because you see how the Americans react whenever somebody they don't like wins an election in Algeria, in Palestine, in Egypt.
They just cancel it.
Well, that's, Scott, you're really thinking in an old mentality.
That's called restoring democracy.
Oh, oh.
You know, when the tanks move in and kick out the guy who was elected, that's called restoring democracy.
Oh, I see.
Okay, well.
Hey, it worked for Boris Yeltsin.
About Egypt.
Well, and now CNN tells me that McCain is in Egypt right now.
Oh, well, he's probably helping restore a little bit more democracy.
I guess so.
He's putting the generals right in line and he's going to make them respect the elections of last year, right?
Sure.
You know, and the thing is that neither of us have to be in love with the Muslim Brotherhood-led government that was overthrown.
You know, we should, as non-interventionists, we should take no position either way.
But, you know, it really was funny when Kerry put his foot in his mouth yet once again last week saying that this was a restoration of democracy, to have the tanks move into the street.
One of the members of Morsi's close circle in Egypt said, this is a great quote, he said, does Secretary Kerry accept Defense Secretary Hagel stepping in and removing Obama if large protests take place in America?
Right.
Well, and of course the answer is yes, of course.
John McCain would be all for that.
They never think that way, you know.
They never think that it could happen to us, you know.
Is this perfectly okay?
Right, yeah.
I mean, that's the whole thing of it, too, is, I mean, they really just said, well, look, there are 30 million people protesting in the streets, so it's such an emergency that we just can't wait until the elections, next set of elections.
You know, just as in the original overthrow of Mubarak in Egypt back in 2011, protests were started and given energy by a small group of Egyptian liberals who had been trained in the United States starting in about 2005.
You know, the Tamarud movement was just a renaming of the Kafaya movement, which they're both headed by the same person.
So who's to say who's pulling the strings for these guys, but it is the same guys who have been able to mobilize a lot of support.
And certainly there are a lot of support.
I mean, if everyone who didn't vote for Obama came and took to the streets of Washington, it would certainly fill, you know, quite a bit of the city.
Right.
And then what would happen is the Army would clear them out of Washington, D.C., one way or the other.
Yeah, that's true.
Well, because we don't have an America to tell them you better step down.
We are America.
And not rightly so that the Army would clear them out, but rightly so that we would not entertain the idea that our system, our presidency, could be changed simply because a few disaffected people took to the streets.
You know, certainly there are legal ways of dealing with a president who's gone out, you know, who's gone out of the Constitution.
But thankfully we don't view the mob in the street as a way of changing a government, here at least.
Right.
Well, and, you know, back in 2011, they at least had pretty much every faction except the military out in the streets then, the Brotherhood right next to the liberals and the Christians and everybody else.
And this seemed to me a pale imitation of that, really.
And then with the generals announcing their 48-hour speech, like George W. Bush, way prematurely, right?
They said, oh, we're trying to head off a civil war, but what civil war?
There's just a carnival going on in entire squares.
What civil war?
Well, what's interesting is really, and I don't remember the exact time frame, but I think it was certainly not hours, if not just minutes after the overthrow, all of a sudden the entire Egyptian Air Force was running streamers in the sky with the Egyptian flags and there was a laser show.
Do people really think these things happen spontaneously?
It was like, think back in the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, and then all of a sudden one of the poorest countries in Europe, they had multi-thousand dollar flat screen TVs, you know, 60 feet high, somehow trucked in.
You know, these things don't happen spontaneously.
Yeah, and especially then, that was back when flat screen TVs were really expensive in 04, you know?
Nine years ago, that was definitely something else going on there.
Well, we know what it was going on there.
And yeah, you know, the other thing was, and even the New York Times covered this, I think, to the shock of Adam Morrow, who's our regular Egypt expert on the show here, the New York Times covered the fact that as soon as Morsi was gone, the local beat cops showed up for work, and they hadn't been doing their job.
Now, they wouldn't let anybody else replace them, of course, but they weren't doing their job providing security on the streets of Cairo or anywhere else since the Brotherhood came to power, and then as soon as the Brotherhood was overthrown, blam, all of a sudden your basic government services are back in business.
Well, maybe some of those paychecks from Washington, D.C. came through.
Yeah, or from somebody, anyway.
All right, well, so now what do you think John McCain is doing in Egypt right now?
You know, he's doing what he always does.
He freelances, you know?
Certainly he's a member of a powerful Senate committee that deals with foreign affairs, but he is just one senator.
He is not U.S. foreign policy.
He's not even the administration's foreign policy, but he freelances.
He goes and he carries the weight of his office, and he overstates the weight of his office, and he uses it to push people around.
So my guess is that's exactly what he's doing over there, and unfortunately people overseas, they tend to probably give undue deference to someone in his position.
Yeah, well, no doubt about that, but, you know, I wonder how far outside of Obama's foreign policy he's ever really going.
Oh, no, he's just one branch of the neocons, you know?
The left neocons, you know, called the humanitarian interventionists, are completely through and through the Obama administration.
You know, look at Susan Rice and Samantha Power.
You know, so however you slice it, it's the neocons in charge.
He just heads up another branch of the neocons.
You know, here's the thing that's kind of bothering me lately.
I'll even go ahead and take for granted their claim that they've got a lot of chatter telling them that there's going to be some kind of major attack on a consulate somewhere.
It seems like, wow, such overreaction, not just tightening up security at Middle Eastern embassies, but closing down, what, dozens of them or something, and crying, you know, boo-hoo, basically.
It's the same kind of thing that John McCain and Chuck Schumer and the rest of these guys are doing in regards to Russia right now.
We are so upset that you gave asylum to Ed Snowden.
It just makes America, the behemoth, the superpower, the 800-ton gorilla, look like a crying little baby.
I mean, you've got Marines to defend your goddamn embassy.
What?
Well, what's interesting, and I don't know if I fully buy the implications of this, but it is quite interesting.
As soon as some members of Congress have started talking about defunding certain aspects of what the NSA is doing, they've miraculously uncovered this horribly horrific, terrifying plot.
In fact, on CNN, out of the corner of my eye here, as they cover the embassy story, the stock footage is of NSA headquarters.
Boy, we need them.
They're doing a great job, which is not to say that there's not something to it.
There may well be, but why don't we look, as Congressman Paul has always said, and you know this, Scott, why not look at why these people are so irritated?
Why are their ranks growing?
I thought we had al-Qaeda on the run.
Why are they growing?
Why do people want to join this group?
Well, maybe we should look at some of the drone strikes.
Look at how many civilians in Yemen were killed last week, I think it was, in drone strikes.
It was at least a couple of dozen or something like this.
Look at Zawahiri's statement from his mom's basement in Pakistan, wherever he's hiding there, his attic caliphate.
He said, hey, Muslim Brotherhood, I told you democracy was for suckers.
You should fight.
Sure.
And on that note, what kind of signals does it send to al-Qaeda if we're supposedly bombing them in Yemen, but shipping them shoulder-fired rocket launchers in Syria?
Talk about mixed signals.
Well, the signal's pretty clear.
Go to Syria.
In fact, I keep reading about actual Pakistani and Afghan Taliban traveling to Syria to fight.
I guess, you know, if you've got to fight with or against the Americans, with is more comfortable.
Yeah, until you win.
Yeah, right, and then they'll stab you in the back and bomb you, too.
But it's true.
You know, what people don't want to talk about is that the vast majority of the fighters in Syria fighting the government come from outside the country.
So when you talk about, oh, it's a civil war, it's a sectarian conflict or whatever, that really is a growth oversimplification, and one does not need to have any affection for the ruler or any ruler to see that this is certainly something fomented from outside.
And, you know, as we know, the first wave of weapons and fighters came from Libya right after we had liberated that country for democracy.
So if you see the trail of devastation left by U.S. interventionism throughout the region, everywhere we intervene, things end up worse than when we started, yet somehow the concept is to make up for the mess we did before we have to do even more intervention.
It's just insane, isn't it?
Yeah.
Well, now let me ask you about the Benghazi thing, because I haven't even been paying attention to this because the more the Republicans care about something, the more I know that it's actually not worth paying any attention to because Republicans are stupid.
And it seems to me like this whole Benghazi thing is just the most ridiculous of limited hangouts when the entire war was fought for the Mujahideen.
But maybe you know some things about it that are actually interesting that I need to hear or something.
Well, you know, what we said from the very beginning is that nobody wants to ask the right questions.
We saw Frank Wolf came out, a representative from Virginia, who is one of the big neocons, big warmongers.
He came out with some new information about what was going on in Benghazi.
CNN picked it up.
Apparently there were dozens of CIA agents on the ground.
They were involved in some sort of activity that night.
Speculation is that it was some sort of an arms transfer to Syria, and somehow things went wrong.
But as you say, Scott, you're absolutely right.
If the Republicans start pushing this, it's not because in their mind we should never have gone in there, we shouldn't be intervening, we should leave them alone.
It's that, oh, okay, here's a way we can hurt Obama.
This is something we can use to attack him rather than to get at the truth, because the truth to them is anathema, which is that our interventionism screwed up the place in such a way that even the ambassador going to a place where he thought they were full of friendlies, because if you remember, he was the first American that rode in there, I think, on an Italian freighter when the uprising first started in Benghazi, saying, hey, guys, I'm here to help you out.
I'm speaking for the U.S. government.
You know, rah, rah.
He worked with them to put them in power.
He went back on a visit, and he ended up getting killed by them.
So, you know, it's just a mess.
Right, and if people remember back to the beginning of 2011, it was John McCain and the Republicans who were saying that Barack Obama needs to get a move on and fight this war for al Qaeda now.
Yeah, the same thing they were saying about Syria.
And, you know, they'll say it about Iran.
You know, you hear more and more talk about that as well.
So, you know, they're going down the line.
You know all these old documents that have been written about the roadmap for victory in the Middle East and how each country has to be overturned, and, you know, things are going pretty much according to plan.
Yeah, from a certain point of view, I guess.
Although devastation is everywhere in the wake.
Yeah, I mean, well, the neocons' original sin here, you know, with, well, there's a lot of them going all the way back, but the big one was Iraq because what they thought was they were going to have a Shiite Arab majority that was going to want to get along with them rather than with the Iranians.
And that was going to put all this pressure on the Iranians to make them democratize.
We won't even have to have a war against them because once we're done in Iraq, they're going to elect pro-American people in Iran anyway, that kind of thing.
And now it seems like they're on the never-ending cleanup operation.
Well, they handed a third or two-thirds of Iraq to the Iranians and their best friends, and so now we've got to try to clean up that mess by redirecting toward the Saudis and the Sunnis wherever we can.
Sure, and, you know, the neocons are not stupid people.
They have great pedigrees, they have great educations, but their Achilles heel is that they allow their ideology to color their analysis.
So they believe, you know, sort of Davisville, the world will follow their will, and things just don't work out that way in the real world.
There are too many variables, and so really that is everything.
If you look at every prediction of people like Bill Kristol, everything they advise, it all turns out badly.
It's not because they're stupid.
It's because of their view of ideology trumping all, and that's the real problem.
Well, and then it's convenient for them that total chaos is a great plan B, right?
Like Michael Ledeen said, let's turn the entire Middle East into a boiling cauldron of creative destruction.
Yes.
Well, we did that with the Iran-Iraq war, didn't we?
You know, we support one side while they're killing the others, and when the other side gets weak, we support them.
And just as long as more chaos is fomented and more people are killed, you know, it does seem to be quite a goal that they have.
Okay, now Russia again.
Here's the thing about Russia.
They've got thousands of H-bombs, so you can only ever push them so far.
The Soviet Union is gone, but they still maintain independence from the United States.
And correct me if I'm wrong, Dan McAdams, there's not a damn thing anybody in North America can do about that fact either.
I think that drives the neocons crazy, too, that they're not in control of Russia right now.
They were in control when Yeltsin was in power, and Russia has found its own independent voice.
It's not moving along a track that the U.S. wants these countries to move along.
It's pursuing a more independent course, and whether you like it or not, it doesn't matter.
Whether we like Putin or not, it doesn't matter.
You have to accept reality.
And what the U.S. wants, demands, is double standards.
And the Snowden situation is the perfect example.
If you saw William Bloom, who's a great writer, did something in Counterpunch last week where he talked about the U.S. routinely ignores all Russian requests for extradition, including people like Chechen extremists who've been given asylum here.
The U.S. doesn't even deny them.
It simply ignores these requests.
But yet they're completely up in arms when Russia doesn't immediately extradite Snowden back to the U.S.
So these double standards are so obvious to the rest of the world.
The rest of the world is not stupid.
These double standards are so obvious to everyone else, but the U.S. still acts outraged about them.
It's just bizarre.
Yeah.
Well, and this shouldn't be a priority of mine, but somehow it is.
I feel a little bit humiliated when I see Chuck Schumer say, oh, well, the Russians are like a big schoolyard bully.
Well, look, you're the schoolyard bully, first of all, and that's what schoolyard bullies cry whenever someone finally stands up to them.
So would you please shut up, Chuck Schumer?
And it's funny to hear John McCain talking about the dissidents in Russia who are, this is a great quote, and we had it in the piece that you mentioned that we put up on the Ron Paul Institute website.
He said these dissidents are increasingly finding the courage to peacefully demand greater freedom, accountability, and the rule of law in Russia.
So this is his praise for them in the same breath that he's demanding that Snowden be returned for basically doing the same thing for the U.S., exposing the lawlessness of the U.S. government.
That just shows the hypocrisy of people like him.
Yeah.
Well, and that's the one fun thing about McCain is he's so completely tone deaf to his own hypocrisy that he's full of them.
I mean, he comes out with statements like that all the time because, you know, like when he said, first of all, as Georgia started the war, as I think you mentioned, in August of 2008, but John McCain came out, accused Russia of starting the war and said, nations just don't invade nations in the 21st century.
Yeah, it is.
He and Lindsey Graham need a reality show or something after they're done in the Senate.
It would be a great watch.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think I remember people even saying to him, yeah, what about Iraq?
And he goes, well, that wasn't an invasion.
That was, I don't know, something else.
As Congressman Paul pointed out once in a hearing, you know, it was an invasion of Iraq because we were responding to their aggression.
And he said, what are you talking about?
And one of the members said, well, they were shooting at our planes when we came over to bomb them.
Right.
Yeah, and as Ron Paul pointed out back in his anti-war speech to the House in October of 2002, he hasn't been able to shoot down a single one of our airplanes in 12 years.
That's what an aggressive threat he is.
He can't even protect his own airspace.
Yes, exactly.
They're still acting aggressively, and they needed to be liberated.
Well, and, you know, the ones who are still alive, I'm sure they really appreciate it, except for all the ones who are going to be maimed horribly and killed today.
But all the other ones really appreciate that.
And look at the 600 al-Qaeda members that broke out of jail there the other day.
And that's the only reason I took this threat against the embassy seriously at all, is they had a huge jailbreak in Libya, another one in Iraq, another one in Pakistan.
If anybody ever rounded up some al-Qaeda guys, apparently they're all back on the loose now.
Can you imagine if they had a big al-Qaeda family reunion somewhere, the things they could cook up?
You know, 2,000 of these hardened fighters, if that's the case.
It is actually quite frightening, yeah, exactly.
But as Congressman Paul always says, what motivates them?
Nobody wants to think about that.
Right.
Well, now, you mentioned before about the American project to send all these mujahideen.
I mean, they're good guys when we send them to Syria and they're doing our dirty work there.
But every time I talk with Patrick Coburn, he says, more or less, I'm paraphrasing, these so-called rebels don't stand a chance.
They control one provincial capital out of, I forgot, 10 or 15.
And unless America invades full scale, which they're not going to do, I hope, these guys don't stand a chance anyway.
I mean, all they can succeed in doing is just keeping Assad bogged down for a while.
And breaking a lot of things up and destroying lives and destroying infrastructure.
Yeah, and bringing millions of refugees.
Sure, in Libya and Iraq, both, the infrastructure was the first to go.
You know, things like clean water and sewage, these things were all completely destroyed in these kinds of battles.
And, you know, there has been a lot of phony success propaganda in places like Reuters, breathlessly reporting all of these rebel games that turn out to be not that at all.
So, you know, there definitely is that.
I think, you know, Coburn is right.
From everything that I've seen, they don't have a chance.
And even if they were given the kinds of weapons they want, all they could do is do more destruction and make this thing last longer.
So why not look for some sort of a political solution?
Why has the U.S. turned its back on this plan with the Russians to try to get some talks together?
Well, first of all, because all the opposition that we've supported, that the U.S. government has supported, I shouldn't say we, that the U.S. government has supported, said, no, we're not going to talk.
We don't have any reason to talk.
Well, and then there's the question of how they could call off the Mujahideen they've sent there anyway if they did have an agreement with the Russians.
Well, I think how they're trying to call them off is they're fomenting a war within a war.
And you're seeing that increasingly that the U.S. is trying to rein in some of these extremists who have always had the upper hand, but it's getting more obvious.
And so you're going to see probably some U.S.
-supported rebels.
And we've read some things about this already, being enticed by the U.S. to fight some other rebels.
What a mess.
Absolute disaster.
All right, listen, we've got to go.
Thank you so much for your time.
It's great to talk to you again, Daniel.
Thanks, Scott.
Bye-bye.
Everybody, that is Daniel McAdams.
He's the director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.
That's RonPaulInstitute.org.
McCain declares war on Russia.
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