Bruce Schneier, a security expert and author, discusses his article “What We Don’t Know About Spying on Citizens: Scarier Than What We Know;” the missing public debate on whether we want a public/private surveillance state; Glenn Greenwald’s “target lists” that will give individuals standing to sue the government for spying; why Obama is lying about the Congress and courts signing off on massive surveillance programs; what phone “metadata” really is; and the heroism (or foolishness) of NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

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