Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi discusses why Israel is serious about spying but not about peace; John Kerry’s almost-frank admission that Israel sabotaged the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks; and anger within the US intelligence community about 60 years of Israel stealing US nuclear and commercial technology.

Transcript:

SH: Our first guest up today is Phil Giraldi, he’s a former CIA and DIA officer and he writes for The American Conservative Magazine and www.unz.com. Welcome back to the show Phil how are you doing.

PG: I’m fine Scott.

SH: Good deal, happy to have you back and I’m sorry I don’t have your article in front of me anymore because I’m running a check disk and it’s taking forever. But I read it this morning and it’s all about Israeli spying -I don’t remember the title sorry, but it’s www.unz.com – brand new by Phil Giraldi about Israeli spying and about Jeff Stein’s two pieces in Newsweek -about Israeli spying and a great deal about Palestine as well. Let’s start with the failed talks and what it all means.

PG: It’s all part of one story, the failed talks are a symptom of a dysfunctional foreign policy in the Middle East and Israeli spying is the under-handed side of that story. The Israeli’s are torpedoing the talks and I think it’s become very clear that The White House and the state department are blaming the Israelis for the first time ever. The Israelis have continued to spy on us, this is impacting on other aspects of Middle Eastern policy.

SH: Let’s talk about that – the first time ever that there has been a consensus with The White House saying that the Israelis blew it this time around.

PG: Yeah, what happened was that apparently Kerry had worked out some kind of preliminary deal with the Palestinians and the Israelis appeared to be going along with it. And the very morning of the day where they would have been announcing they were moving forward the Israelis announced 700 new houses in east Jerusalem – which basically destroyed any possibility of a deal.

There were other things too. Obviously there have been other stories -I’m sure you’ve read in the Israeli media – about Netanyahu has a long history of doing this sort of thing – you know, creeping up to the point where he can talk the talk like he’s interested in peace but then doing something that he knows will end the talks right there.

It’s interesting to this – everybody now is – apart from the very strong partisans of Israel and the United States, everybody now has kind of figured out that this is not a Palestinian problem as much as it is an Israeli problem.

SH: Right. It really drives home that the US doesn’t even necessarily have to stop them from doing what they’re doing. We just have to stop covering for them all the time. Everyone else in the world is against them at this point. Without American diplomatic cover, money and military subsidies Israel would have to figure out an entirely different foreign policy – almost certainly one that doesn’t include a continuing occupation of the West Bank.

PG: That’s right. One of the funny side stories of this, is that apparently the guy who leaked the information about the Israelis being the ones that torpedoed it was Martin Indyk – there couldn’t be a stronger partisan in the world for Israel than Martin Indyk who has been accused of leaning toward Israel in everything he does.

He realizes that unless the Israelis seize the opportunity – create two states – it’s going to become a bi-national state eventually. It’s got to happen and then if anybody wanted Jewish identity for the state of Israel it is going to be gone.

So Indyk has understood this. Somehow Benjamen Netanyahu can’t quite get it.

SH: He even gave a speech the other day where the quote was just as simple as simple can be – it was the Israeli side that ruined the deal this time – and it’s really too damn bad. Now Martin Indyk, for people who are not familiar, he goes back with the Israel Lobby in America, he helped found the Washington Institute for Near Eastern Policy for them back in the 80’s right?

PG: That’s correct. He’s an AIPAC guy all the way and for him to come out with this shows the level of frustration that the administration is feeling about the positions that Israel is taking. It’s quite astonishing. But then again we have Congress to deal with, we have the media to deal with – it’s not exactly like we woke up this morning and everything has changed – it hasn’t.

SH: I was just about to ask you: How can the Israeli policy be so self destructive for so long like this, and then you said Congress right? They are confident that the Israel Lobby in Washington D.C has enough control over Congress to ensure nothing is ever going to get too far out of hand as far as America protecting whatever it is they perceive their interest to be?

PG: Yeah, currently Congress is still in the pocket of the Israel Lobby. There is not going to be any shift on that for the foreseeable future unless we have a dramatic change in who gets elected in November – but I don’t see that. It’s the same old story. There are interest groups in the United States, whatever they are, or there is an interest group for Israel, or various other interest groups – they wield a tremendous amount of power because they control the contributions to Congress, they control the elections.

SH: Now that the narrative is changing do you think that that power dynamic is going to change at all? The whole mythology about how the poor Israelis are besieged by the Palestinians and all of that kind of thing ….at least in D.C the narrative has always been that it is all the Palestinians fault that they can never get their act together enough for the Israelis to deal with them …or whatever.

But since that narrative is falling away I wonder if cash, threats and those kind of politics will be enough to keep Congress in line when it’s just becoming more and more apparent to everyone, as John Kerry put it to the Trilateral Commission – that ‘Hey, we’re dealing with an apartheid state, or we’re on the verge of having an apartheid state under the definition of minority rule,’ I think he meant?

PG: You’re absolutely right and I’ve written about this too, that there has been a dramatic shift in terms of perceptions. After a certain point, the way Israel behaves is not going to be sustainable. The other interesting aspect of this is of course the other half of my story – the spying.

This whole spying story came out for the first time in the mainstream media – that’s the important thing- it’s in the mainstream media. This is because Israel was pushing to get this visa waiver for Israeli’s so they could travel freely to the United States. The intelligence community and the defense community went to Congress in closed session and said that this would be a disaster – Israel spies on us more than anybody.

They provided all the details -again this is a closed session- they provided all the details to such an extent that apparently according to Jeff Stein who wrote the articles – the Congress, even those who are/were pro-Israeli were shocked, stunned.

This all came out and the result is going to be that the intelligence community, the defense community, the national security community all united on this saying, ‘if you open the door to Israelis coming here, we are going to have huge problem like 9/11 when we had art students and Israeli intelligence officers operating all over the United States – that would come back. That is basically what they’re saying.

It’s going to be very difficult for Congress to get this waiver through – they’re still trying but the fact is that every time Israel turns around it makes it’s own worst case. That is what we’re seeing.

SH: It’s a great thing too that it is Jeff Stein that did this reporting, as you mentioned it’s in Newsweek – because that’s where he is now. He used to write for Congressional Quarterly back when he broke the Harmon story; which is great stuff along these same lines but who the hell reads Congressional Quarterly?

Unless you’re really into this kind of thing, about what Israeli spy’s are caught doing on the phone around here, or what Jane Harmon is up to, it didn’t really get that much play but now that he’s writing at Newsweek – that’s leaves a bigger footprint, even in the latest version of it.
In the Israeli press they tried to resort to saying that their is a whiff of anti-Semitism here – Jeff Stein is either an anti-Semite himself or he is just way too dull to figure out that these intelligence community briefers and staffers are all just a bunch of closet Nazis which is why they would make up these atrocious lies – all that I though was so silly that it only bolstered the case.

I mean, we’re talking about Jeff Stein here, you pointed out in your article that he is a former military intelligence officer himself. I certainly knew that he is a very credible intelligence beat reporter and that they dare not attack his credibility as a journalist.

They tried to at least imply that that at least they guys he was talking to were anti-Semites but I don’t think that stuck. He’s too good.

PG: Well they tried to go after Paul Pillar, the former CIA officer because Jeff Stein quoted him and of course, Pillar’s credentials are impeccable and he has never been an Israel basher. A number of Israeli publications and some politicians in the US went after Paul Pillar.

The great thing about Jeff Stein, his first article talked about the Israeli spying and how it was connected with the visa waiver program and then he followed it up when they started attacking him with another article.

SH: Yeah, now hold it right there I’m sorry we gotta take a break but we will be right with Phil Giraldi in just a sec.

PG: Israeli spying on the United States is the most massive spying program directed against the United States by anyone. Back in the old days when we had the Soviet Union as an adversary, sure they spied on us but they were limited in terms of what they could do.

They would send in an occasional illegal if they could come up with one, they had their KGB and GRU officers operating out of embassies and consulates but we’re not talking about a whole lot of people. We’re not talking about a massive successful effort. The only real successes they had were volunteers who were Americans that volunteered to spy for the Soviet Union so let’s put that in context.

The Israeli’s however have been spying on us since before the creation of the state of Israel, or rather the proxies of the Israeli’s since they didn’t exist. They’ve been spying on us for 60 years. The fact is that they have stolen nuclear secrets, defense secrets, military technologies, commercial technologies that have had military and industrial applications – they’ve stolen just about everything from us, plus they have penetrated a lot of our communication systems as Christopher Ketcham has described.

So the fact is the Israeli spying is not a joke. This is an incredible massive effort to shift elements of our economy and our military technologies to Israel to benefit Israel. That is what it’s all about. Intelligence officers have known this for years. They’ve known the extent to which Israeli’s turn up everywhere. Of course as Jeff Stein points out in his second article, when they get caught, they don’t even get slapped on the wrist. They get no punishment and this has been known to counter intelligence people at the FBI and to the CIA, to people at The Pentagon and everybody else and yet the Isreali’s get away with, it and they get away with it, and they get away with it.

They get away with it because the US Government, as Congress and the White House are afraid to take them on.

SH: It really is incredible. The contrast between what I understand about this now, just from knowing people like you and Ray McGovern and others, by reading Christopher Ketcham – the contrast between that and what I perceive to be at least the common narrative around what people understand about this is absolutely night and day.

I think most people if they considered it, if you asked them, I guess they would say, ‘yeah I guess they must spy on us some,’ but for most people the question doesn’t come up – the subject has never been brought up at any moment in their lives, it’s just not part of life in America.
As you explain it is absolutely systematic and goes far beyond what any one else would ever be able to do. The Soviets would never be able to get away with that. They were our enemies. The Israelis, visa program or not, they can just run wild across America all day long and nobody is checking on them because they’re our ‘friends’.

The assumption is that we are all friends here and they wouldn’t spy on us that much would they? They know we won’t do anything – they go far beyond what people would assume would be their stopping point.

PG: Some of the stuff that Jeff Stein came out with were things that I knew, but the way he pulled it together was beautiful. He described how the secret service agent was in Tel Aviv, and he was on the toilet, they had just cleared the hotel suite that Al Gore, Vice President was supposed to be using, and he heard a scratching noise, and here was an Israeli intelligence officer coming through the air vent of what he thought was an empty room.
Obviously he was going to be putting in recording devices and other things.

Stein also recounts how when American scientists are invited to conferences over in Israel and when they go there they are pitched – Israel tries to recruit them. If they think the guy is vulnerable to women, they will send women in to his room, if they think he likes drugs they ply him with drugs, they’ll ply him with alcohol, all the classic things you do, like I would have done when I was in the CIA to a KGB guy or something – you look for the vulnerabilities.

But these are Americans, these are American officials, these are American academics, massive programs by the Israelis to recruit these people and get them and their information – it’s just incredible. I recommend everybody read the two Newsweek articles. The first one is great and the second one in some ways is even better when it describes how there is never any retribution for any of this stuff.

Think about it. We’ve been taking a hosing now for so many years. How long is this supposed to go on?

SH: Yeah, indefinitely I guess. I talked to John Cole the former FBI counter intelligence officer, I think you mentioned him in your speech at the recent reassessing the special relationship conference there. He said on this show that he knew of at least 150 counter intelligence cases that were contemplated if not begun, and then they were shut down for political reasons. It would be one tenth of one percent of these ever go anywhere at all and that’s if you count Rosen and Weissman and ultimately getting away with it….

PG: Yeah. Another interesting thing in the Stein article is how the state department does threat assessments about the whole world – every country- they are mandated to this every year and there afraid to write an honest threat assessment about traveling to Israel because they don’t want to piss off the friends of Israel in Congress. If they write an accurate assessment saying if you have access to classified information, or if you are a scientist who works in technical areas that are of interest you’re going to be approached by Israel intelligence officers.

They are afraid to write that. You keep thinking, ‘My God, how do you get this across to these lunkhead Christian Zionists who claim to be patriotic Americans that we’re being violated by the Israeli’s and that we have been violated by them for years and years and years now. But I guess you can’t get it across to them – they say that God is on their side, I mean, I don’t know.

SH: If this was a movie or a TV show somewhere there is an adult who puts a stop to this stuff – rather than it just going on and on with now accountability for nobody whatsoever – at least someone at the FBI should be in trouble for continuing to let this go or something …

PG: You’re right, there is no adult supervision over the US Government at all but I think you and I figured that out about ten years ago.

SH: That’s the real problem here. The evil conspirators built a world empire that nobody can control – squeaky wheel gets the grease I think is the best way to put it and the Israel lobby is just relentless.

As Stephen Walt said, you kind of have to respect them for using the democratic process in the most efficient and effective way possible. I envy them, if only as a peacenik – if every peacenik in America could really be motivated to make the phone calls, to send the emails, to meet with their Congressman, to follow up, to vow to never support that Congressman again, or to always support that one, or to always support that one’s enemy or whatever it is. That is the way the Israel lobby does it. They just have their act together. Most of it is not illegal, it’s just ugly as hell y’know…they do a good job Phil…it’s terrible, but it’s great for them.

Alright, thanks very much. You scared the hell out of me.

Phil Giraldi everyone, he is at www.unz.com.

05/15/14 – Phil Giraldi

I’m Scott Horton, this is my show the Scott Horton Show. www.scotthorton.org is my website, I keep all my interview archives there, more than 3000 of them there now, going back to 2003. You can also find the chat room there – www.scotthorton.org/chat if you want to hang out with the boys and girls in there during the show (and other times too). You can say ‘hi’ to each other, share links and talk about el caminos -whatever you’re in to …Also you can follow me on twitter -@scotthortonshow – follow me and retweet me …alright?

SH: Our first guest up today is Phil Giraldi, he’s a former CIA and DIA officer and he writes for The American Conservative Magazine and www.unz.com. Welcome back to the show Phil how are you doing.

PG: I’m fine Scott.

SH: Good deal, happy to have you back and I’m sorry I don’t have your article in front of me anymore because I’m running a check disk and it’s taking forever. But I read it this morning and it’s all about Israeli spying -I don’t remember the title sorry, but it’s www.unz.com – brand new by Phil Giraldi about Israeli spying and about Jeff Stein’s two pieces in Newsweek -about Israeli spying and a great deal about Palestine as well. Let’s start with the failed talks and what it all means.

PG: It’s all part of one story, the failed talks are a symptom of a dysfunctional foreign policy in the Middle East and Israeli spying is the under-handed side of that story. The Israeli’s are torpedoing the talks and I think it’s become very clear that The White House and the state department are blaming the Israelis for the first time ever. The Israelis have continued to spy on us, this is impacting on other aspects of Middle Eastern policy.

SH: Let’s talk about that – the first time ever that there has been a consensus with The White House saying that the Israelis blew it this time around.

PG: Yeah, what happened was that apparently Kerry had worked out some kind of preliminary deal with the Palestinians and the Israelis appeared to be going along with it. And the very morning of the day where they would have been announcing they were moving forward the Israelis announced 700 new houses in east Jerusalem – which basically destroyed any possibility of a deal.

 There were other things too. Obviously there have been other stories -I’m sure you’ve read in the Israeli media – about Netanyahu has a long history of doing this sort of thing – you know, creeping up to the point where he can talk the talk like he’s interested in peace but then doing something that he knows will end the talks right there.

It’s interesting to this – everybody now is – apart from the very strong partisans of Israel and the United States, everybody now has kind of figured out that this is not a Palestinian problem as much as it is an Israeli problem.

SH: Right. It really drives home that the US doesn’t even necessarily have to stop them from doing what they’re doing. We just have to stop covering for them all the time. Everyone else in the world is against them at this point. Without American diplomatic cover, money and military subsidies Israel would have to figure out an entirely different foreign policy – almost certainly one that doesn’t include a continuing occupation of the West Bank.

PG: That’s right. One of the funny side stories of this, is that apparently the guy who leaked the information about the Israelis being the ones that torpedoed it was Martin Indyk – there couldn’t be a stronger partisan in the world for Israel than Martin Indyk who has been accused of leaning toward Israel in everything he does.

He realizes that unless the Israelis seize the opportunity – create two states – it’s going to become a bi-national state eventually. It’s got to happen and then if anybody wanted Jewish identity for the state of Israel it is going to be gone.

So Indyk has understood this. Somehow Benjamen Netanyahu can’t quite get it.

SH: He even gave a speech the other day where the quote was just as simple as simple can be – it was the Israeli side that ruined the deal this time – and it’s really too damn bad. Now Martin Indyk, for people who are not familiar, he goes back with the Israel Lobby in America, he helped found the Washington Institute for Near Eastern Policy for them back in the 80’s right?

PG: That’s correct. He’s an AIPAC guy all the way and for him to come out with this shows the level of frustration that the administration is feeling about the positions that Israel is taking. It’s quite astonishing. But then again we have Congress to deal with, we have the media to deal with – it’s not exactly like we woke up this morning and everything has changed – it hasn’t.

SH: I was just about to ask you: How can the Israeli policy be so self destructive for so long like this, and then you said Congress right? They are confident that the Israel Lobby in Washington D.C has enough control over Congress to ensure nothing is ever going to get too far out of hand as far as America protecting whatever it is they perceive their interest to be?

PG: Yeah, currently Congress is still in the pocket of the Israel Lobby. There is not going to be any shift on that for the foreseeable future unless we have a dramatic change in who gets elected in November – but I don’t see that. It’s the same old story. There are interest groups in the United States, whatever they are, or there is an interest group for Israel, or various other interest groups – they wield a tremendous amount of power because they control the contributions to Congress, they control the elections.

SH: Now that the narrative is changing do you think that that power dynamic is going to change at all? The whole mythology about how the poor Israelis are besieged by the Palestinians and all of that kind of thing ….at least in D.C the narrative has always been that it is all the Palestinians fault that they can never get their act together enough for the Israelis to deal with them …or whatever.

But since that narrative is falling away I wonder if cash, threats and those kind of politics will be enough to keep Congress in line when it’s just becoming more and more apparent to everyone, as John Kerry put it to the Trilateral Commission – that ‘Hey, we’re dealing with an apartheid state, or we’re on the verge of having an apartheid state under the definition of minority rule,’ I think he meant?

PG: You’re absolutely right and I’ve written about this too, that there has been a dramatic shift in terms of perceptions. After a certain point, the way Israel behaves is not going to be sustainable. The other interesting aspect of this is of course the other half of my story – the spying.

This whole spying story came out for the first time in the mainstream media – that’s the important thing- it’s in the mainstream media. This is because Israel was pushing to get this visa waiver for Israeli’s so they could travel freely to the United States. The intelligence community and the defense community went to Congress in closed session and said that this would be a disaster – Israel spies on us more than anybody.

 They provided all the details -again this is a closed session- they provided all the details to such an extent that apparently according to Jeff Stein who wrote the articles – the Congress, even those who are/were pro-Israeli were shocked, stunned.

This all came out and the result is going to be that the intelligence community, the defense community, the national security community all united on this saying, ‘if you open the door to Israelis coming here, we are going to have huge problem like 9/11 when we had art students and Israeli intelligence officers operating all over the United States – that would come back. That is basically what they’re saying.

It’s going to be very difficult for Congress to get this waiver through – they’re still trying but the fact is that every time Israel turns around it makes it’s own worst case. That is what we’re seeing.

SH: It’s a great thing too that it is Jeff Stein that did this reporting, as you mentioned it’s in Newsweek – because that’s where he is now. He used to write for Congressional Quarterly back when he broke the Harmon story; which is great stuff along these same lines but who the hell reads Congressional Quarterly?

Unless you’re really into this kind of thing, about what Israeli spy’s are caught doing on the phone around here, or what Jane Harmon is up to, it didn’t really get that much play but now that he’s writing at Newsweek – that’s leaves a bigger footprint, even in the latest version of it.

In the Israeli press they tried to resort to saying that their is a whiff of anti-Semitism here – Jeff Stein is either an anti-Semite himself or he is just way too dull to figure out that these intelligence community briefers and staffers are all just a bunch of closet Nazis which is why they would make up these atrocious lies – all that I though was so silly that it only bolstered the case.

 I mean, we’re talking about Jeff Stein here, you pointed out in your article that he is a former military intelligence officer himself. I certainly knew that he is a very credible intelligence beat reporter and that they dare not attack his credibility as a journalist.

They tried to at least imply that that at least they guys he was talking to were anti-Semites but I don’t think that stuck. He’s too good.

PG: Well they tried to go after Paul Pillar, the former CIA officer because Jeff Stein quoted him and of course, Pillar’s credentials are impeccable and he has never been an Israel basher. A number of Israeli publications and some politicians in the US went after Paul Pillar.

The great thing about Jeff Stein, his first article talked about the Israeli spying and how it was connected with the visa waiver program and then he followed it up when they started attacking him with another article.

SH: Yeah, now hold it right there I’m sorry we gotta take a break but we will be right with Phil Giraldi in just a sec.

PG: Israeli spying on the United States is the most massive spying program directed against the United States by anyone. Back in the old days when we had the Soviet Union as an adversary, sure they spied on us but they were limited in terms of what they could do.

They would send in an occasional illegal if they could come up with one, they had their KGB and GRU officers operating out of embassies and consulates but we’re not talking about a whole lot of people. We’re not talking about a massive successful effort. The only real successes they had were volunteers who were Americans that volunteered to spy for the Soviet Union so let’s put that in context.

The Israeli’s however have been spying on us since before the creation of the state of Israel, or rather the proxies of the Israeli’s since they didn’t exist. They’ve been spying on us for 60 years. The fact is that they have stolen nuclear secrets, defense secrets, military technologies, commercial technologies that have had military and industrial applications – they’ve stolen just about everything from us, plus they have penetrated a lot of our communication systems as Christopher Ketcham has described.

So the fact is the Israeli spying is not a joke. This is an incredible massive effort to shift elements of our economy and our military technologies to Israel to benefit Israel. That is what it’s all about. Intelligence officers have known this for years. They’ve known the extent to which Israeli’s turn up everywhere. Of course as Jeff Stein points out in his second article, when they get caught, they don’t even get slapped on the wrist. They get no punishment and this has been known to counter intelligence people at the FBI and to the CIA, to people at The Pentagon and everybody else and yet the Isreali’s get away with, it and they get away with it, and they get away with it.

They get away with it because the US Government, as Congress and the White House are afraid to take them on.

SH: It really is incredible. The contrast between what I understand about this now, just from knowing people like you and Ray McGovern and others, by reading Christopher Ketcham – the contrast between that and what I perceive to be at least the common narrative around what people understand about this is absolutely night and day.

I think most people if they considered it, if you asked them, I guess they would say, ‘yeah I guess they must spy on us some,’ but for most people the question doesn’t come up – the subject has never been brought up at any moment in their lives, it’s just not part of life in America.

As you explain it is absolutely systematic and goes far beyond what any one else would ever be able to do. The Soviets would never be able to get away with that. They were our enemies. The Israelis, visa program or not, they can just run wild across America all day long and nobody is checking on them because they’re our ‘friends’.

The assumption is that we are all friends here and they wouldn’t spy on us that much would they? They know we won’t do anything – they go far beyond what people would assume would be their stopping point.

PG: Some of the stuff that Jeff Stein came out with were things that I knew, but the way he pulled it together was beautiful. He described how the secret service agent was in Tel Aviv, and he was on the toilet, they had just cleared the hotel suite that Al Gore, Vice President was supposed to be using, and he heard a scratching noise, and here was an Israeli intelligence officer coming through the air vent of what he thought was an empty room.

Obviously he was going to be putting in recording devices and other things.

Stein also recounts how when American scientists are invited to conferences over in Israel and when they go there they are pitched – Israel tries to recruit them. If they think the guy is vulnerable to women, they will send women in to his room, if they think he likes drugs they ply him with drugs, they’ll ply him with alcohol, all the classic things you do, like I would have done when I was in the CIA to a KGB guy or something – you look for the vulnerabilities.

But these are Americans, these are American officials, these are American academics, massive programs by the Israelis to recruit these people and get them and their information – it’s just incredible. I recommend everybody read the two Newsweek articles. The first one is great and the second one in some ways is even better when it describes how there is never any retribution for any of this stuff.

Think about it. We’ve been taking a hosing now for so many years. How long is this supposed to go on?

SH: Yeah, indefinitely I guess. I talked to John Cole the former FBI counter intelligence officer, I think you mentioned him in your speech at the recent reassessing the special relationship conference there. He said on this show that he knew of at least 150 counter intelligence cases that were contemplated if not begun, and then they were shut down for political reasons. It would be one tenth of one percent of these ever go anywhere at all and that’s if you count Rosen and Weissman and ultimately getting away with it….

PG: Yeah. Another interesting thing in the Stein article is how the state department does threat assessments about the whole world – every country- they are mandated to this every year and there afraid to write an honest threat assessment about traveling to Israel because they don’t want to piss off the friends of Israel in Congress. If they write an accurate assessment saying if you have access to classified information, or if you are a scientist who works in technical areas that are of interest you’re going to be approached by Israel intelligence officers.

They are afraid to write that. You keep thinking, ‘My God, how do you get this across to these lunkhead Christian Zionists who claim to be patriotic Americans that we’re being violated by the Israeli’s and that we have been violated by them for years and years and years now. But I guess you can’t get it across to them – they say that God is on their side, I mean, I don’t know.

SH: If this was a movie or a TV show somewhere there is an adult who puts a stop to this stuff – rather than it just going on and on with now accountability for nobody whatsoever – at least someone at the FBI should be in trouble for continuing to let this go or something …

PG: You’re right, there is no adult supervision over the US Government at all but I think you and I figured that out about ten years ago.

SH: That’s the real problem here. The evil conspirators built a world empire that nobody can control – squeaky wheel gets the grease I think is the best way to put it and the Israel lobby is just relentless.

 As Stephen Walt said, you kind of have to respect them for using the democratic process in the most efficient and effective way possible. I envy them, if only as a peacenik – if every peacenik in America could really be motivated to make the phone calls, to send the emails, to meet with their Congressman, to follow up, to vow to never support that Congressman again, or to always support that one, or to always support that one’s enemy or whatever it is. That is the way the Israel lobby does it. They just have their act together. Most of it is not illegal, it’s just ugly as hell y’know…they do a good job Phil…it’s terrible, but it’s great for them.

Alright, thanks very much. You scared the hell out of me.

Phil Giraldi everyone, he is at www.unz.com.

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