All right y'all welcome back to the show anti-war radio on the Liberty Radio Network We are anti-war here against all five of America's wars, and I know you're saying five But yeah, stop and count them Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan Yemen and Somalia we oppose the war in Somalia here, too WikiLeaks reveal u.s.
Twisted Ethiopia's arm to invade Somalia reads the headline at Foreign Policy and Focuses blog fpif.org/blog And joining us on the phone is this articles author Rob Prince welcome to show Thank you.
I sure appreciate you joining us here, and in fact.
I'm sorry let me page down and Mentioned here Rob Prince is the publisher of the Colorado progressive Jewish news So thank you very much for joining us again It's a very important story I used to say all the time because I thought it was pretty apparent that it was You know America's war and Ethiopia was a proxy army Invading Somalia for us, and then I was discouraged to that notion actually by a woman that I still have a lot of respect for Over at the Human Rights Watch who has had a lot of expertise in Somalia, and I'm so sorry her name is escaping me at the moment, but Now it looks like I was right after all and not only did the CIA and special forces help with the invasion That was going to happen anyway according to some information in the new WikiLeaks seems like It's now what a proven fact that the Americans the Bush administration Basically hired or or in some way Arranged for the Ethiopian army to invade Somalia Christmas 2006 is that right?
Well, that's basically accurate first for starters there were a number of reports at the time of the invasion that Ethiopian military force was Directed by US Special Forces as they went into the country and that that was reported in the American media So I don't know that this particular leak that came out in WikiLeaks is Is what I would consider that new but what it does is it substantiates if you like greatly substantiates what What those news reports were saying at the time and what?
What apparently Scott?
You know you suspected at the time and that was that that the United States was Intimately involved in every step of every every step of that invasion It was Leslie Lefkow is who I was thinking of from Human Rights Watch And I guess what she said was she thought the Ethiopians had their own Purposes and invading their own worries, and they kind of wanted to do it and so the u.s.
Said okay Well, we'll help, but this is actually portraying quite a different story well not to justify Leslie's position, but part of the problem here is so much of what the special forces Does not only in Ethiopia, but in the other four wars?
Excuse me not only in Somalia But in the other four wars you referred to and who knows where else is is is considered secret not open So it you know it's hard.
It's harder.
It's harder to document, and it's also true that there there been Problems along the Ethiopian Somali borders and there's small a population in Ethiopia that the Ethiopians have been Uncomfortable about but the fact of the matter remains that in 2060 Ethiopian government had many other concerns that he had to deal with And the president and the president of the country who was you know really running into a lot of trouble And the last thing on that he wanted to do it appears was to launch this This this attack on on Somalia his human rights record Was was seriously deteriorating the country was in the midst of a heck an overall crisis economic and social the the level of repression in the country Had reached in Ethiopia had reached really something approaching really almost obscene levels and Hardly reported and therefore his the his his base within the country Well was was quite narrow, and he was very nervous about this invasion And it was at that point, and this is what if you like is new about about the revelations that Then The then u.s..
Undersecretary of State for Africa Frasier Jendai Jendai Frasier who was had always a very long and close relationship with Congress rice professional a relationship went to Ethiopia and really twisted the president's arm and Press and pressed him rather hard to To and to invade at the time of the war in Iraq was going really badly for the u.s.
Afghanistan was already a mess and the notion of a of a large scale u.s..
Military Invasion in Somalia was out of the question you've also you also have the the black hawk down incident Which happened in the in the Clinton years, so the u.s..
Was nervous about Getting involved there too heavily and so therefore they What it now seems to be pretty crystal clear?prodded prodded Ethiopia to take the ball and to invade and in exchange for for military aid and you know the usual usual nonsense if you if you like at the same time that that under Secretary of State Frazier was pressuring Ethiopia to invade She was making public statements to cover her but And the statements basically was the United States doesn't support any Ethiopian invasion of Somaliland once again You see you you kind of see what this wiki leaks Exposure is shown a two-track policy One of of creating fabrications for the public on the one hand.
You know there's another word for that.
It's just outright lying while following a more more serious and Nefarious track in an underhanded fashion, so so this is what Frazier did no no the United States Opposes military action at the same time that she's pushing Ethiopia to do it now this invasion did not go well for Ethiopia The idea was because Somalia was so Fragmented at the time that it would be easy, but as often happens the invasion brought together the diverse Trends within the country Against the outside invader and and the Ethiopian military took a beating They took a beat.
They took a beating well, and they had to withdraw although that didn't happen until last year And they really withdrew with their tail between their legs So as a situation deteriorated and of course within within Somalia They committed all kinds of war crimes which which very little has been investigated about So you know this is pretty this is pretty serious stuff while this is going on in the situation in Somalia is is deteriorating It's at that time that Frazier blames the invasion Ethiopia that the United States had nothing nothing to do with it, so it's you know it's pretty Slimy stuff that was going on there, and I just want to add one point here is that before this?for a certain amount of time Frazier was the US ambassador to South Africa Early in the Bush years that was her first assignment and And At that time she was trying to get put together What was called a coalition of the willing which has a certain you know familiar ring to it?to get the different US allies in a southern part of Africa to invade Zimbabwe and Tansi Mugabe a kind of South African version of the US invasion of Iraq Her her pressure on on on those countries was so Strong and serious if you like That she lost that post South African test we'll pick it up.
We'll pick it up right after this break alright.
It's Rob Prince from foreign policy and focus We'll be right back All right y'all welcome back to the show Santa war radio I'm looking at fpif.org/blog foreign policy in focus their website fpif.org/blog the article is called WikiLeaks revealed u.s.
Twisted Ethiopia's arm to invade Somalia That's referring to the invasion of Christmas 2006.
It's by Rob Prince and again, he is the publisher of Colorado progressive Jewish news and now so here's the thing you talked about one of the things you mentioned there was That the Ethiopian invasion rather than fracturing the different factions in Somalia from each other united them And so I was hoping maybe we could rewind a little bit to earlier in 2006 because it seemed like they were all fractured until America started Covertly supporting the warlords including the son of Adid this the bad guy from the Blackhawk down incident the evil warlord They were up against in that his son and his buddies And it was American support for them that helped solidify support for the Islamic courts union made them strong enough to be able to kick those warlords out of the country into Ethiopia in the first place and Then that was the emergency that connelly's rice had to solve and that about right that that's correct and So that's how the Islamic courts union got their monopoly on power in Somalia Finally was the reaction to American intervention before this war even started well in part the other thing about the The Islamic courts, you know, you have a situation where?the country had literally collapsed a couple of years before and Not unlike at least in some a certain sense Afghanistan And and the Taliban what is it that the Islamic courts brought?
To to a country and collapse.
All right.
Well, it might not have brought democracy but they they brought a certain kind of order and in contrast with with some of Yeah of these other Islamic groups.
I would argue that the Islamic courts In many ways are somewhat more moderate.
They really weren't they're not really an al-qaeda I type operation But but you know the u.s It reminds me of during the Cold War Wherever you wherever the United States opposition has said it was communist So now we have wherever you see the rise of some kind of Islamic group All they can see is is This Taliban or al-qaeda and it suggests that something else about u.s Foreign policy that that, you know for the last 60 or 70 years The country we don't have a clue About what's going on in a lot of these countries How to deal with the problems in these countries What our role has been certainly in the last 10 years only?exacerbating Tensions that that might have existed in in in some level and that and that continues and Somalia is a classic example whether we're talking about in the Cold War period the post-war Cold War period of What I would call a u.s Foreign policy out of control without a clue and when all else fails and everything else fails because they don't have a clue They they they use more and more Play the military card and whether it's through outright invasion the way it the way it's been in Iraq or Afghanistan Or all this what I would refer to simply as special forces and nonsense or prodding in a case of Frazier and getting Ethiopians to do it.
It's a it's a foreign policy that's going nowhere Well, you know that's such an important point I want to chew over that for a second because You know, it's hard a lot of times.
It's hard for me to see ultimate power acting So blindly, I mean, I'm trying to remember here.
It's Condoleezza Rice.
We're talking about here and You know, she really is a dingbat, you know, I could see that but on the other hand It's so much power being deployed that you'd think that there's got to be some kind of level of wisdom about it But to be as ignorant to base an invasion on the motive that you just described that look they call themselves Islamic They must be bad like the Taliban.
Let's use force against them That's like the kind of wisdom you'd find at the blog at National Review or something But the average reader of anti-war comm would know a lot better than that before sticking their nose in this Just from being the average reader of it.
Not a not the Secretary of State for crying out loud It seems to me like the other option is their stupidity is the plan What's better what better way to have a long war than just keep blundering around creating enemies creating blowback?
And then hell you can read in the New York Daily News that look there's this terrible new terrorist group al-shabab that apparently came from a void and Of some description but nobody knows what that void might have been or what could have caused it and now they're this terrible new terrorist Group, we have to deal with maybe we need a giant military base in Somalia somewhere to stop this and on we go Right, right and on we go concerning just a couple points here concerning Condoleezza Rice You know kind of Lisa Rice Got her degree and has a long Association with the University of Denver's Corbell School of International Studies where I teach and Without going through her her full History and the turns the turns and what seems to be the turns in her politics One one can say this Condoleezza Rice's academic experience had to do with Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union and her knowledge of She doesn't even speak Russian, right?
I mean, come on.
Well, this is yes.
This is true But whatever her knowledge was in that area her knowledge of the Middle East and even even African politics It's nothing was nothing nothing Extraordinary now I say this because in spite of this I would say that compared to some of the others who went who were in the Bush administration One could say she had certain, you know Academic preparation, but the set but still someone who who's a classic American diplomat hardly speaks any foreign languages Has an area of concentration in one in one part of the world But it's dealing with stuff in the other another part of the world where she really Doesn't doesn't have that much knowledge or clue.
All right.
The second point is this what what is the US ambassador today?
Whether it's For the most part.
It's someone who made a big campaign contribution To get a president elected You know, it's it's it's some, you know, bimbo businessman Whose whose reward?
To keep him out of the administration for the most part Whatever administration is to send him halfway around the world someplace.
He doesn't know anything about And finally, you know, you have a country that's foreign policy I can't emphasize it enough is out of control and They really There's a strategy there if you like mostly defined by by by the neocons a global a global strategy, but but Almost almost with no rhyme or reason or no sense to it in today's world And it's it's so unfortunate to see our current president for the most part having bought into this strategy and perpetuating it To a very great degree.
Oh, yeah Well, Hillary Clinton goes out there and threatens to bomb Eritrea if they keep financing the resistance in Somalia We'll just do more the same here I can't help but note that but see here's the thing.
It's the pointy part of East Africa there, right?
It's the gate to the Red Sea and it seems like if I was a Navy man Maybe I'd want some bases there and an excuse to have some bases there or something like that But then again access to the Red Sea isn't threatened.
So I mean it seems like it'd be cheaper Maybe that's the key.
It'd be more expensive to have bases there than not.
Is that where this is?
We already have a base there yeah, I know we do in Somalia do we yet We know we don't have a base and I mean the military Military aspect of US foreign policy is looking for quote a home in Africa if you like, right?
To do it with exactly and the interesting thing is is that at least to date there's no African country That's willing to provide the home and it appears that the the headquarters of Afrikaans going to be in DC which is something of the humiliation, but there's something you should watch here and it's the following and It has to do with them with Afghanistan Afghanistan is really for the United States a test case for NATO Making NATO into something of an international u.s.
Led police force It's not clear From where I'm sitting and I agree.
I'm I'm in my Rocky Mountain high here in Denver and mountains and it distorts things But what it looks like is that it hasn't been decided yet What's going to be the main arm of u.s.
Military policy in Africa?
Will it be NATO?and if Afghanistan is either a military victory or or not even that if the u.s.
Can claim that it is, right?
Then I think what we're going to see is the extension the significant extension of NATO operations in Africa if if as it looks The Afghanistan a military venture is going to be Wind up being a fiasco then Africa Then Afrikaan looks looks like that will be the solution so that they've got if you like these two Scenarios that they're that they're playing with and ultimately when we're talking about Africa You're right to speak about the Red Sea and a strategic importance But ultimately what we're really looking at is the great chase for Minerals and energy resources and who's going and who's going to control that?
The u.s.
Attempt to you know to be in charge of that and that's unfortunately what what is driving u.s.
Policy throughout the continent?
Well, I guess it's nice to hear finally that there's a silver lining to the war in Afghanistan in the way It's going I've been searching in vain for one.
I appreciate that Well, I mean, you know because if it's a test case then we've seen what happened in Marjah We've seen what's going on in Kandahar the headlines today are Taliban small arms attacks nearly double over last year the counterinsurgency Strategies as a fail strategy as a failure General Petraeus Is the worst loser ever to be a general in America and it's decided it's right here in USA today.
He's failed Yes Well Again, I'm looking at it from here.
It looks like things are going very very poorly and that They're not going to be it's going to be more difficult for Petraeus to claim victory in Afghanistan the way he did with the surge in Iraq, even though you know, it's questionable whether he accomplished anything And so they're they're really in trouble in Afghanistan Afghanistan, you know, it's brought down a number of empires.
So But then there's the arrogance of power So look if I can keep you another couple minutes I'd like to ask you a couple more questions about the way things stand there now because you know I mentioned sarcastically al-shabaab.
There's this brand new group that came out of nothing but I mean the real story there is that the Islamic Courts Union the reason that they were so moderate is because they were old men and Now like you said the invasion rallied all different factions throughout the country together against the Ethiopian and now the African Union invading an occupation force and there you have a whole new generation of you know fighting aged males as they call them with rifles and Now the is the best I understand it.
Please correct me if I go off the story, however, you can But as I understand it now the Islamic Courts Union is basically the government and that Condoleezza Rice not Obama But but Bush and Rice basically conceded defeat to the Islamic Courts Union after tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions run Out of their homes and on the brink of starvation all over the country as Leslie Lefkow explained on the show And and but basically they said okay Look, you guys can be the government But you got to be within the shell of our little transitional federal government that we created with the UN and whatever But then we'll let you be the government now I'll Shabab are the rebels against them for being for now siding with us and being you know Making a deal with our guys.
Is that about right?
That's about right.
It's not about right.
It's It's it's quite accurate.
I would by way of Comparison, I mean basically what we're seeing is another as I said earlier Almost a complete lack of understanding of How to bring this country in this case Somalia back to some kind of healthy situation And the United States is not going to be able to do it if you contrast or compare What the US policy in Somalia with its policy just across the Red Sea in one of those other wars?
You were talking about Yemen.
You'll see a very very similar situation And the situation is number one Not understanding or for that matter even caring about what really are the main problems of the country exaggerating the Fundamentalist quote threat or in this case the al-qaeda Threat both Yemen and to to the region al-qaeda is a very small in in Yemen by all objective reports and what has You know the u.s.
Miller now that now it's completely public Military intervention done there.
It's only strengthened the hand of al-qaeda completely discredited the The government and and and and sign up for its its connection To the US military.
There's some other aspects the whole Saudi connection to the whole thing but but once again what we see is As I call it a foreign policy out of control the blind leading the blind With drones and that's US foreign policy today Add me to your email list Scott at anti-war calm This is good stuff, and I you know, I like foreign policy and focus But I think this is the first time I've read your work certainly the first time I've talked to you on the show, but this is publish me Say what I'm gonna be writing was the first it's the It's the first time I've been published there, but I guess I'll be writing regularly for them Well, in fact as we speak I'm submitting this to the anti-war calm viewpoint database here All right, cool.
That's very cool.
Hopefully I'll run this on the front page tomorrow And I'm gonna be right what I'm going to be writing about.
I'm going to be writing about the Horn of Africa Yemen and then for my own personal History, I'm going to be writing about North Africa Tunisia and Algeria and of course a little bit about the Israeli Palestinian stuff But so many people are writing about that that I figure I don't have anything to say that others haven't said, you know better Or more, but I'll be writing great.
I'll be I look forward to reading it.
I look forward to talking with you again This is a great time.
I should take care.
Bye.
Bye All right, everybody that is Rob Prince and His piece is at foreign policy in focus, that's fpif.org This piece is called wiki leaks reveals u.s.
Twisted Ethiopia's arm to invade Somalia this article published December 8th, 2010 and Rob Prince is also the publisher of the Colorado progressive Jewish news
