All right y'all, welcome back to the show.
It's anti-war radio.
So uh yeah, I'm Scott and our first guest on the show today is Aaron Libby.
He is a state representative up there in Maine.
Couldn't get further from me and still be in the United States of America, I don't guess.
He serves on the Energy Utilities and Technology Committee and you can look him up online.
Well, the web address is too complicated.
Just search Aaron Libby State House in Maine and you'll find him.
Welcome to the show.
How's it going?
All right, thanks Scott.
Thanks for having me on.
Doing very well.
Thank you and yourself.
I'm doing good.
Really appreciate you joining us on the show here today.
Listen, so tell us about this bill LD1305.
All right, well this is talking about the National Guard and how we deploy them.
Basically, it's just talking about the Constitution, about saying, you know, we should follow it.
The idea that our National Guard should be here in the state unless Congress actually declares a war.
And other than that, you know, they shouldn't be outside the state of Maine, or any other state for that matter.
But dealing with the problems that the state has, whether it be, you know, tragedies with the mother nature and things like that.
But it's just putting pressure on the governor and also Washington, D.C. to declare war.
And if it's not a congressional declaration, then it shouldn't be put into harm's way.
Okay, so right now, I guess the federal law is that the president can call up the National Guard simply by executive order.
And then, is it correct then that the state law in Maine basically just goes along with that?
Is that how it works?
Yes, yep.
That's my understanding, just about how most states will follow that.
They have their state orders, and as soon as a federal order comes in, they'll follow it.
Federal order.
All right, now, so the bill says what exactly?
That the Guard is to be brought home, and then the president can't have them again to use in war unless there's a declaration of war.
Is that it?
Yes, basically.
Basically, the governor has to withhold the National Guard troops unless it is a declared war.
Well, I think it also says in there, or unless there's an invasion or an insurrection, right?
Right, and that's what the Constitution specifies for how the three different ways that Congress can declare war, whether there's an attack in that instance.
So basically, to follow the three steps that the Constitution clearly states, that's the instructions to follow.
All right, now, I'm not really the expert on this, but I think I'm under the impression that the National Guard units are just that, National Guard units, that they're created by the Congress under the power of the Congress to raise and support armies.
They're not the state militias of the 19th century.
So I wonder whether the supremacy clause in this case would just knock down your attempt to do this.
Wouldn't you just have to create a separate state militia and maintain your control over that instead?
Well, you know, the point is, especially when you bring in the finance of the National Guards come from, and it does look like that just about all the federal money does come in effect and pay for all the state's National Guards.
So that does make a difference.
Well, they're created by federal law in the first place, right from the New Deal days.
Yeah, well, you know, basically, it's just kind of the changing.
I mean, you know, the Constitution talks about that being a militia, and that's basically what the National Guard is.
It's the state state guard, you know, state militia, and to whether or not it was a movement to put down, to cut down the amount of standing army.
So to have the state's guard to be able to call up at any given time, that's a possibility.
All right, well, now, yeah, I guess I really need to talk with some more legal minds about that, because I guess I was under the impression, well, and I don't know, I mean, maybe I'm kind of half right that, that they kind of got rid of the state militias, and that they were supplanted by the National Guard, but maybe the states really do maintain much of the control.
I'm not exactly sure how it works, really.
Yeah, I mean, until, as it was taught to me, the state guard that follows all state orders until a federal order comes in, and then, and then they follow the federal order, whether that.
And, and at this point, the federal order can simply just come from the president, right?
Correct.
All right.
And so now, tell me a little bit about Maine's National Guard.
Are they over there in Iraq and Afghanistan and so forth right now?
There have been tours, yeah, there have been different tours, and I mean, the different refueling tankers and things like that.
So, I mean, there have been National Guardsmen that have done multiple tours and multiple tours.
Do you have any kind of estimate as to how much this is costing the state of Maine?
Well, that's under my understanding of what, how that's financed, is that it actually, the federal government does pay for the whole program.
Right.
So I guess when it comes to Maine's costs, you can only look kind of at opportunity costs for what is it, what does it cost the government when they don't have the guard around and they need them for something?
Right.
And now, well, so what about floods and blizzards and things like this?
Have, have there been circumstances over the last, I don't know, say decade where you guys really needed your National Guard and they were gone off in Iraq somewhere?
Probably, I mean, it hasn't come up.
We certainly saw that in New Orleans, for example, right?
Right.
I mean, there definitely hasn't been any national disaster or state disaster to that extent in a few different states or emergencies.
But, you know, it just brings up the discussion whether or not, you know, if that was the tragedy, it was to happen.
All right.
Now, I wonder about any reaction that you've heard so far from Washington, D.C. and do they have anything to say about this?
Are they hoping that they can just close their eyes and plug their ears and hope it goes away?
No, yeah, I haven't, I haven't heard too much.
I mean, in the past couple legislative sessions, there's been different states that have put similar legislation in.
So, I mean, I haven't heard too much talk coming, you know, from D.C.
It's just kind of from the states.
How many other states you say are doing something like this?
There's been about a half dozen states in the last couple of sessions.
I'm not sure what the states have this year, but there was a handful in a previous session, states that had it in as well.
Well, you know, I'm not exactly sure how it would work out.
You know, I don't see the National Guard specifically in the Constitution.
So, I would think that the Supremacy Clause is beside the point here if it's an unconstitutional law.
But I sure would like to see the fight over this.
I guess it would have to go, you know, through the courts and everything.
But do you think that the political will exists within Maine to really stand up to the federal government and just tell them no?
Well, I mean, with the Real ID a few years back, I mean, that was a part of that.
The state of Maine just, the House of Representatives just passed the 10th Amendment Resolution yesterday, and that's going to the Senate for a vote.
So, I mean, there's a lot of 10th Amendment-style bills, and a lot of discussion more about getting back to limited government and back to a constitutional government.
Now, you're a member of the Republican Party, is that right?
That's correct.
And so, is it the case that in Maine the Republican Party is anything but the war party?
This can't be good for your political career.
Well, I never looked for a political career.
I didn't, there wasn't a reason why I ran it.
It's not the reason why I'm here.
You know, just trying to get a better business climate here and also, you know, get back to a constitutional-level government and a monetary policy and things like that.
So, you know, there's people that, you know, on both sides.
Obviously, the bill that I put in 1305 has a bipartisan support.
So, I think I found the support on both sides, and there's people that don't like it on both sides.
Yeah, well, and no doubt about that.
When the Democrats are in power, the Republicans tend to get more skeptical about war and the Democrats get less so.
And so, I guess we could see, you know, the bipartisan nature of support for these kinds of policies and the bipartisan opposition as well, especially in times like this.
All right.
So, can I hold you through the break and keep 10 more minutes here?
Sure, sure, I'll be fine.
Okay, great.
Everybody, it's Representative Aaron Libby.
He's a Republican in the state house in Maine, trying to bring the guard home.
We'll be right back.
All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
It's Anti-War Radio.
I'm Scott Horton.
I'm talking with Representative Aaron Libby from the Maine state house and the Republican Party.
And he's got a bill here called LD-1305, which would, I guess it would forbid the national government from taking the Maine Division of the National Guard to war without a declaration of war or an outright invasion or insurrection.
I guess, does this bill have anything to say about any of the Maine National Guard troops who are overseas right now and whether they are to be brought home immediately?
It would probably, you know, it would be, you know, whether it be a pullout, I mean, it would be a transfer of that.
I see.
So, there's nothing actually in the bill that addresses the current troop levels?
Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't be like, you know, dead right on that exact day.
So, sure.
And still, it's a very good model for other congresspeople and other state houses, I think, to get on board for.
As you said, there's already, what, half a dozen states that have resolutions like this?
Yes, I know.
Just going back, I mean, yeah, in the last, you know, from 2008 to 2010 legislative, you know, a few states like Maryland, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Wisconsin put similar bills in.
All right.
Now, you know, I think we talked a little bit about the opposition and support that you have in terms of the political parties in the actual house there, but I wonder about what kind of reaction you're getting from the people of Maine.
Are they pretty much sick and tired of occupying the world?
I think, you know, there's a lot of talk.
Obviously, you know, when this, the bill was put in back in December, but when it was starting to come out of the reviser's office, it was right in, you know, the height of Libya.
So, you know, it brought up a lot of talk on that.
I think, you know, we see that we're spread out, you know, it's 700 bases in 180 countries, and we're spending all this money overseas.
And, you know, we have a lot of problems here domestically.
So I think it brings up a lot of discussion on whether or not we should be in all these different areas and spending billions into the trillions of dollars.
Well, you know, I mean, that really gets right to the heart of, I think, the major misconception that helps to keep all this bad policy going.
And that is that the money spent on war could be spent on something else.
And somehow they convinced us that war is good for the economy.
If it wasn't for waging war all the time, the economy would really be in the doldrums or something like that.
But it's quite the opposite argument to make that, no, this is money being wasted that could be spent.
We could, it's our money.
After all, we could be spending it on ourselves.
Yeah, the Keynesian broken window effect, you know, government spending that doesn't help us, that only hurts us.
You know, the money could have been spent here or, you know, even better still left in the pockets of those who earned it in the first place.
Yeah, sure seems like it to me.
And I wonder whether, you know, the society at large can ever get over that myth.
In fact, you know, probably if there's a way for that to happen, it would be Republicans explaining, you know, from a free market economics point of view about, you know, the opportunity costs and the different ways that the money could have been spent, whether by the governments or by the people domestically, rather than overseas.
And, you know, the broken window and all that, because I don't think you can ever really get liberals and Democrats to abandon Keynesianism.
But maybe you could get some Republicans to see through the lies.
To be a fiscal conservative, I think you have to look at this very much so.
I know you talked about also there's some more legislation concerning the 10th Amendment.
You know, I guess a broader set of issues than just the National Guard is that's already been passed or that's a proposed resolution up there now.
We did.
Yes, the 10th Amendment style resolution was passed in the House of Representatives yesterday.
And we do have other 10th Amendment style legislation as well, between Interstate Commerce Act and getting rid of the socialized health care, the Affordable Health Care Act, and a few things like that, some different manufacturing things.
There was a gun bill that was spoke up earlier this week on manufacturing.
And so there's definitely a few different.
And then also I've submitted a food sovereignty bill in going on the S510, the Food Modernization Safety Act, similar to what I've seen other states like Vermont put in for its food sovereignty resolution.
Well, that's certainly good news.
I kind of excited about the movement across the country.
It seems like, you know, the further away power is, the harder it is to have any influence on it.
But, you know, it seems like actual citizens, I don't know very much about you, but it seems like actual citizens, perhaps like yourself, can get elected to, you know, state legislatures and push things like this.
And that seems to me the very best hope that we have for, you know, repealing as much of the federal leviathan as we can before it all falls down and we lose it, you know, the hard way.
Definitely.
I mean, just getting involved and getting, you know, the information out there, you know, see, you know, what has happened in the last five or eight years.
So obviously all the information on the internet, I'm talking about the spending all that we're doing and, you know, the Federal Reserve and all those entities.
So I think it's a positive.
This message keeps growing.
And now what kind of fight do you expect about some of the laws that you're attempting to nullify here?
Well, some, you know, some will be interested.
I mean, first you've got to go through a committee process and we'll see.
I mean, I think it was very positive that we passed the attempt on that resolution yesterday.
So we'll see how things go from here on out.
All right.
Well, you know, I sure hope that when the backlash from D.C. comes that you guys can stick to your guns, because not only is that obviously what's best for the people of Maine, but it sets a really good example for other politicians in the society.
If they can be, you know, taught to believe that opposing, you know, whatever's coming out of D.C. as best they can is what's good for their political futures, then I sure would like them to see that example being set, you know?
Well, I think it's a great opportunity.
I think, you know, we look at the history of nullification, look at the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions, and I think there's a lot of historical instructions and ideas there that explains a lot of this.
All right.
Now, you know what?
Back to a little bit of Maine politics.
Inside the Republican caucus there, do you talk very much with the other Republicans and do you discuss these kinds of foreign policy type issues?
And do you think you're having, you know, are you making any progress in helping change some minds?
After all, like we were talking about before, it is a bit easier to talk about foreign policy with conservatives when Democrats are sitting in the White House.
I think so.
I mean, we're looking at, you know, a lot of the things that I keep bringing up is the idea, you know, we haven't followed the Constitution since World War II.
We haven't declared a war since World War II.
And, you know, people don't really look at that, don't think about that.
They think about the resolutions and things, and they don't look at the idea that we actually haven't declared war and that we're not, haven't been following the Constitution on that.
So I think a lot of this opens up, you know, good discussion on that and trying to, you know, not just say, all right, we're going to follow this part of the Constitution, but that part, we're not really going to hold to that.
So I think it's very important to adhere to all of it.
Well, you know, I think that's one of the most important things that Ron Paul says in his regular statements about these issues is that nobody thinks that the Constitution is perfect.
Nobody's ever really studied it.
But the thing about it is it's the law.
And if it's if we can treat it as though it's not the law, then basically government employees can just do whatever they want to whoever they want.
And so if we want to change the Constitution, let's change the Constitution.
But when we ignore it, we set ourselves on a path of real danger here.
And I think that's an argument that ought to really appeal to conservatives here.
They don't want to throw out George Washington's legacy and have, you know, whatever Obama and Hillary come up with instead, be the way things are around here.
Oh, definitely.
I mean, the founder left us specific instructions to how to change the Constitution and to go through the amendment process.
And, you know, obviously, the hundreds of things that the federal government does on an everyday basis that violates the U.S. Constitution.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and that's the whole thing about it now, right, is to go back to the Constitution now would be to repeal not just the 21st century, but the 20th, too, and maybe some of the 19th.
A lot of spending.
That's for sure.
But I think that would bring in a lot more logical discussions on spending cuts compared to what has been discussed in the last week, a month here.
Well, I'm sorry we're running out of time because I just thought of brand new questions about, you know, how much money Maine gets from the Feds as opposed to gives and all these kinds of things.
But anyway, it's been a very interesting conversation.
I wish you a lot of luck with this bill.
I think it's a great opportunity.
Everybody, that's Aaron Libby.
He's a Republican in the statehouse in Maine.
The bill is LD 13 05 to bring the guard home.
Check it out.
