All right, y'all, welcome to Antiwar Radio, Chaos 92.7 FM in Austin, Texas.
We're streaming live worldwide on the internet at ChaosRadioAustin.org and Antiwar.com slash radio.
We've got a jam-packed show for you today.
An attempt to make up for slacking all week long up until now.
How do you like that?is our good friend, Ray McGovern.
He's a former CIA analyst, used to brief George Bush Sr. back in the day, in the 1980s, in the presidential daily briefs, and so forth.
Ray, you've got this new article that's going up on Consortium News, out damn blot, a letter to Powell, and this is a reference to some, what is it, Hamlet?
It is, well actually it's Macbeth.
Oh, Macbeth, I see.
Yeah, that lady Macbeth that had that problem with washing her hands and seeing the bloody residue of what she was an accomplice in.
So she kept saying, out damn spot, she couldn't get those red blood spots off her hands.
Yeah, okay, well I don't know why this always happens with your phone, Ray, but I can hear you loud and clear, so I'll just ask you to hold that mic back from your mouth a little bit more.
Okay.
You'll get a little bit of distortion there.
I'm going to have to just buy you a new telephone and try to exit over there.
Okay, so Powell, he's got the blot, out damn blot, that's this letter to Powell, and this is, it begins, and I like the context here, it begins with how you and Powell both grew up in Brooklyn, New York, right around the same time.
No, the Bronx.
Oh, the Bronx.
Yeah, the big difference, my wife was from Brooklyn, she married up.
Oh, I see.
So it shows what I know about it, I'm from Austin, Texas, I don't know, Danny.
I can't tell the two apart.
The Bronx is the only part of the U.S. mainland, you see, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, they're all kind of islands dangling out there, but the Bronx is real America in God's country, and it's commercial.
Well that's good, and so you and our former Secretary of State, Colin Powell, grew up in the same neighborhood about the same time, you ought to have the same sort of social mores and things that govern your behavior, and you knew him, he was the guy, you would brief him before you would go brief his boss, the Secretary of Defense, back in the 1980s, is that right?
That's exactly right, Scott, Colin is two years older than me, but we had the same experience, you know, immigrant families, going to college at the same time, he was a year ahead of me, and joining the ROTC, as we both did, I turned down the regular Army commission that I was offered, but he found his persona there in the Army, and as you know, I screwed it up to the highest levels.
As far as getting to know him personally, although we lived just a half mile away from each other, I did not know him growing up, but I quickly got to know him when he became a military assistant to one Casper Weinberger, who among other things, has the distinction of being indicted for lying about the Iran-Contra business.
Many people know I had the privilege, really, of briefing Ronald Reagan's top national security assistants, starting with the Vice President, down to Secretary of State Shultz, Secretary of Defense Weinberger, a whole string of national security assistants, because they changed every year, and then later we added the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Vesey at the time.
When I got to Weinberger's office, which was usually about 7.15 in the morning, Powell would have already been there for two hours, pouring over things that he was boarding up on, and it quickly became apparent to me that he was a little wondering what I was going to tell his boss.
You see, this had to be one-on-one.
Weinberger couldn't invite Colin Powell in to be at this briefing, so as a matter of courtesy, I would arrive 10 or 15 minutes early, and sort of reassure Colin that I wasn't going to tell his boss anything that Powell really needed to know, and most times, that was true.
So we got to know each other pretty well, because this spanned, as I recall, about a year and a half, when we were both in those positions.
And I had the impression of him as a pretty decent chap, and later learned more than I really wanted to learn about him, and specifically with respect to the Iran-Contra thing.
When I heard that, when the FBI asked him, did Weinberger keep a diary, did he keep a diary?
And I said, oh no, no, no, I never saw a diary.
Well, every time I walked into Weinberger's office, there was a great big diary, right in front of us, on a little prop in front of his desk.
So that led me to believe that Colin wasn't always as honest a babe as I had thought, and of course, what subsequently developed further scandalized me.
Yeah.
Well now, in 2002, it was pretty obvious that Cheney wanted to go ahead and get the war started as soon as possible, that Powell, that there was the infighting, I mean, this was even in the media at the time, the infighting, and how Powell insisted that they had to go to the UN, and that kind of thing.
Well, it's funny, I think it was Woodward's book, where when it came time for the UN speech, how Cheney turned to Powell and said, well, you have the poll numbers, you can afford to take a hit.
And he basically just, as though he was still just a soldier, smartly saluted and went out there and lied to the world.
Yeah.
For a war that he knew was not a good idea.
Yeah.
That's a very sad story, isn't it?
Once you find that your persona is so inextricably linked with the Army, and you learn how to salute, and how to get to the very top that way, it's really, really hard to unlearn that.
I like to think back on my Irish grandmother, who actually lived with us.
Unfortunately, Colin Powell's grandmother did not come with them from Jamaica.
And my grandmother used to always tell me, Raymond, she told me once, she told me this about a thousand times, Raymond, be truthful and honest, and then you won't give a damn what anyone says about you, okay?
Now, that stuck with me.
And even though we came out of the same immigrant mentality, where the tendency was to hit your star to somebody who really was very important, I kept remembering what she said.
And others who grew up within three square miles of me, not only Powell, but also George Tennant, and also Alan Greenspan, for that matter, all like us, part of the immigrant families, they didn't have their grandmothers by them.
And so I count myself fortunate in having that, because when you look at Powell, you know, it's really a sad story.
Now, the point of this little piece is not to rehearse things already known, but to point out to Powell, just in case, you know, in case he doesn't listen to antiwar.com, in case he thinks he gets his news from the New York Times, well, he doesn't know that, and this is really astounding.
If somebody wrote a novel about that, it would never sell because it's so extraordinary.
He doesn't know that the Iraqi foreign minister and the head of Iraqi intelligence were both recruited before the war, both reported to British, well, one reported to British intelligence and then we learned, and the other reported directly to us, namely the foreign minister, Ali Sabri, that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Now, how do they know?
Well, they're intimates of Saddam Hussein.
Were their reporting records proven?
They were.
When did we know from Najib Sabri?
We knew from the Iraqi foreign minister in the summer of 2002, and indeed, the president was briefed by the CIA director at the time, George Tenet, on September 18, 2002.
Now, what's that?
That's six months and one day before the invasion, and he was briefed on what Najib Sabri said, and what he said, of course, was there were no weapons of mass destruction.
Tenet and those with him were astounded that the president simply said, well, you can go now, and they learned the next day that they didn't want, that the president didn't want to hear any more from Najib Sabri because, quote, it isn't really about weapons of mass destruction, it's about regime change, period, end quote.
Now, that information, this is the important point, that information was withheld from Congress, from the people working on the National Intelligence Estimate, the terrible one of October 1, 2002, which persuaded Congress to authorize the president to make war on Iraq, it was withheld from Colton Powell, if you can believe what these new CIA sources told Sidney Blumenthal back, well, two years ago.
So if Powell doesn't know that, he also doesn't know, unless he's been watching alternative media, that with respect to the intelligence chief of Iraq, this is the guy working for Saddam Hussein, but really working for us.
He told us, he told the British, and us, in January of 2003, so, you know, Colton Powell's speech was on February 5, 2003.
He told the British, there were no weapons of mass destruction.
I know, because among other things, I headed up the biological weapons program, and that was shut down in 2006.
So, all this information was available, and guess what?
It was not shared with anyone.
Bush ended the liaison with this particular source, and again, Colton Powell, according to CIA people involved in this operation, was among the rest of them that were cut out.
So, what am I saying to Colton Powell in this little letter?
I'm saying, Colton, either of two things has to be true.
Either you knew about all this stuff, you knew about the Iraqi foreign minister, you knew about the head of Iraqi intelligence, you knew the real story about curveball, and you went ahead anyway, or you didn't.
What you have said subsequently is true.
Now, if that's the case, for God's sake, this is the time for you to rise out of your, you know, sort of hunkering down, and go to Congress and say, look, I know what the real story was, now, I was cut out of it then, and let Congress do an investigation that really means something.
I think Powell may be prompted to do this, if only to atone for that horrendous performance before the UN on February 5, 2003.
I'd like to give him credit for wanting to do that, if only to wipe off this blot from his record, much less to hold those accountable who are responsible for 4,141 American soldiers dead as of yesterday, 30,000 plus severely wounded as of yesterday, not to mention the tens or the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead because of things like Powell's speech on February 5.
So I dearly hope that he's open to the suggestion that, well, better late than never.
Maybe before I see St. Peter, it would be good to clear this thing up.
Conyers seems to be interested.
We're going to have to see how this plays out in the next couple of weeks.
Ah, well, see, that was the question, was why should he have to go to Congress?
Can't Congress demand that he come to them, sit down there and swear before God to tell the truth on punishment of prison if he lies?
Amen.
That's the way it should, that's the way it probably will happen.
But, you know, I like to think that Powell is up to here with this new information, that he was, you know, really blindsided and unable to appreciate the lies that he was telling on February 5, 2003.
And it would be a magnanimous gesture on his part to come forward and volunteer.
That's what I would like to see him volunteer to Conyers or to Jay Rockefeller of the Senate Intelligence Committee, volunteer his testimony.
If he's subpoenaed, you know, that's fine.
Let him come and speak under oath in either circumstance.
But, yeah, I'd like to give him a chance to rehabilitate what's left of his reputation.
Yeah, well, I don't know, I forget Jay Rockefeller.
Is there even a chance that Conyers is going to really do something serious about this?
Well, Conyers was on Amy Goodman yesterday.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
He was on with Ron Susskind, as a matter of fact.
Oh, really?
I'm going to have to watch that rerun.
Well, it's really interesting, because among the things he said was, you know, this is the most important investigation of all the Bush administration lies and crimes.
And I've called my people back from vacation to start working on this, and I'm in the third day of this new investigation.
Now, you have to pardon me, because Conyers, I don't know how to figure out Conyers.
He's said these kinds of things before and never followed through.
And so I'd have to be from Missouri on this to see if he does, but he sounded very genuine.
Now, he also said that I have to be the most, he described himself as the most zealous proponent of getting the necessary information from the administration, and yet what does the record show?
The record shows that they've sent so many subpoenas downtown that, you know, you can probably see them like paper airplanes coming down for serving, but they've never got any respect or response.
Conyers expressed himself as being, quote, frustrated, end quote, at the lack of cooperation from the administration.
Now, a little footnote here, Scott.
I learned late last night that George W. Bush was at CIA headquarters in Langley yesterday.
That is bizarre.
That is incredibly unusual.
I don't know that he's been there since 10 days after 9-11, when he put his arm around Tenet and said we have the best intelligence service in the world.
Wow.
Anyhow, there he was.
Now, the cover story is that he was being briefed on Georgia and the Soviet Union.
You know why I think he was there?
I think he was there to put his arm around Mike Hayden, now the, what I call, malleable Mike, and to reassure him and all the senior officials there that they need to stonewall any requests from Congress for further information about curveball, about Naji Sabri, the foreign minister, or Habush, the Iraqi intelligence chief.
Just stonewall them, and if you run into legal difficulties, well, you know, you know what happened to Old Scooter, you can rest assured you will be protected.
Now, is that outlandish?
No, it's precisely what George Bush Sr. did.
Caspar Weinberger, Powell's old boss, indicted and about to go to trial for perjury.
During the Iran-Contra affair, what happens?
George H. W. Bush pardons him on Christmas Eve just before he leaves office.
So I don't put it past Bush to go up there and say, look, hang tight, guys.
I'm going to Crawford now for two weeks, but I want you to hang tight.
Don't do anything that I wouldn't do, and I certainly wouldn't give Congress the time of day.
That's why he was there, is my best guess.
Well, the clock is running out, and, well, the Congress, the House of Representatives, the people with the power to issue the indictment, they announced before even taking their majority that impeachment is off the table.
Forget about it.
Nancy Pelosi was in on the conspiracy to kidnap and torture and murder people outside the law, warrantless wiretapping, and she at least should have known, I would even argue must have known, as well as I knew and you knew before the war, that they were lying us into this war.
Now, I guess she voted against it, right?
But she certainly hasn't done anything to stop it since then.
Yeah, I've been watching AfterDowningStreet.org has a magnificent array of YouTube and other selections where you can watch things like Nancy Pelosi being confronted by incredibly courageous people from Code Pink and other places, mostly women, curiously enough, challenging her.
You know, you talk about power in this new book that you're hawking.
What about using your power to make sure the Constitution is being observed?
So, you know, I have this new feeling, Scott, that there are so many people that see through all these lies and so many people who are beginning to realize what is at stake, that pressure is being brought to bear on people like Nancy Pelosi, and they will realize that rather than winning, Nancy Pelosi is likely to lose to Cindy Sheehan, who had the guts to confront her and now is qualified to run against her.
A lot of Democrats who have shown themselves to be jelly bellies, jellyfish, are in jeopardy of losing their base of support, and I think that the American people just need to sort of face these people down and say, look, it doesn't matter if there's only five months left.
We can't let the Constitution be trashed.
Being from, you know, being from Virginia here, I have to tell you that George Mason, who was buried just a couple miles down the river here, down the Potomac from me, I can, you know, on a still night, I can hear George Mason moaning, oh, we hung around in Philadelphia, we hung around in Philadelphia all that hot, sweltering summer.
We put impeachment in that Constitution six times.
We knew, we knew that human nature being what it is, that somewhere down the line, and we thought it would be far earlier than 200 years, some president would start acting like a king.
And we didn't want, you know, another revolution.
That one is quite enough, thank you very much.
And we didn't want, you know, the kinds of coups that happened down there in Latin America.
We left them as their heritage with a orderly political process.
It's what to do when the president starts acting like a king.
What's wrong with my fellow Virginians?
What's wrong with the distinguished Senator John Warner?
What's wrong with the others?
Why can't they understand what's at stake here?
And I can hear poor George Mason.
You know, he was the guy not only co-authoring the Constitution but refusing to sign it.
Why?
Because at that point it lacked the Bill of Rights.
So we're talking about our founders here, we're talking about our precious Constitution.
I think the American people are going to wise up and move in time to hold this president and vice president accountable before they leave office.
Yeah, Congress first, and then the rest of them.
Now, you mentioned Cindy Sheehan's race against Pelosi there.
Believe me, I would love to see Nancy Pelosi replaced in Congress by Cindy Sheehan.
Wouldn't that just be a treat, watching her on C-SPAN every day?
But is that actually possible?
You're telling me that this is going to be a close race, or what?
Well, Scott, I'm kind of an observer of foreign affairs, an intelligence analyst whose previous career always directed my analysis and activities abroad.
So I'm no domestic political expert.
But Cindy was able to collect all those signatures.
She's only the sixth person in the state of California who has been able to qualify for an independent run without the backing of a political party.
And she is from San Francisco.
And it just seems to me that there are enough San Franciscans that might be wise enough to say, look, you know, this really is bad.
Cindy has been right all along.
If Nancy Pelosi and the president can't come up with the, quote, noble cause for which her son died and so many others, and Nancy Pelosi has been responsible for funding the deaths of, well, at least 1,200 more since the surge began, that maybe she really doesn't belong in this office.
Maybe we need somebody who is more attuned to what's really going on in this country.
I have already sent Cindy whatever we could and more than has been given to any other candidate in my wife's and my life.
So I do hope she has a chance, but you're asking me to predict that.
You know, I just really don't have a good feel for it.
Well, yeah, I hadn't seen any of the poll numbers or anything, but I do think that sure would be great.
And, in fact, you're reminding me that it was, what, I guess three years ago when we got to meet face to face out at Cindy Sheehan's protest there in Crawford.
At Camp Casey, right.
Demanding what noble cause from George Bush.
It seems like a simple question.
He said, look, your boy died for a noble cause.
All right, now get out of my face.
And she said, well, wait, I'd like you to be more specific, please.
Yeah.
Yeah, he had said a week before, he said, you know, these deaths, you know, regrettable though they are, they're worth it, you know.
And it was for a noble cause.
Cindy, to her, you know, to her credit, and I think maybe this has to do with the bond between mother and child.
I don't see any raging grandpas, you know.
I don't see men as leading this very respectable surge toward accountability.
It's the women.
It's Code Pink.
It's Cindy Sheehan who has the guts to stand up and say, look, I'm not going to buy your talk about a noble cause.
You explain to me what this noble cause was.
And, of course, you know, unless you say, well, we need those permanent military bases to protect the oil and protect Israel.
That doesn't really qualify real well as a noble cause, does it?
No, it sure doesn't sound noble to me.
If it was all noble, how come they had to lie to us from beginning, you know, starting in, what, January 2002 all the way through today?
Yeah.
Every bit of it is based on lies.
There must be something they're covering up there, and I doubt that it's the virtue that really lies beyond.
Yeah, and even this Georgian thing that you mentioned tangentially at the beginning, oil has a lot to do with that as well because, as most folks know, in an attempt to circumvent Russia, a pipeline has been built through Georgia and it's pumping lots of oil that is designed for the Western market.
So, yeah, oil is a biggie, and the fact that the world is running out of oil is, I think, the quintessential factoid that people need to bear in mind because you could look at Iraq quite justifiably as the first war, the first resource war of the 21st century.
Well, got to put those permanent bases somewhere, and I guess there's just not enough room here in the continental United States.
We need those bases in other people's countries.
Well, we don't say permanent anymore, Scott.
Oh, enduring bases.
Yeah, they're enduring bases.
They're going to endure all time in attempts to get rid of them.
Yeah, see, permanent is much too permanent.
Enduring is sort of permanent, but it sounds a lot better, doesn't it?
Yeah, it sounds a hell of a lot better.
All right, everybody, that's Ray McGovern.
He's a veteran analyst with the Central Intelligence Agency and co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.
You can find what he writes at ConsortiumNews.com, including this new one that's not quite out yet but will be soon probably this afternoon, Out Damn Blot, an open letter to Colin Powell.
Thanks very much for your time today, sir.
Thank you, Scott.
