04/26/11 – Joey King – The Scott Horton Show

All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
It's anti-war radio.
And our next guest is Joey King from the Veterans for Peace.
That's veteransforpeace.org.
He has a military history in the U S army, as long as your arm was a platoon leader in a company executive officer back in the days, now he's a peacemonger.
Welcome to the show.
Thanks, Scott.
Appreciate you having me on.
Well, I'm very happy to have you here.
I was impressed as always with y'all statement this time on Libya and what it means to the veterans for peace.
So why don't you tell us what the war in Libya means to the veterans for peace?
Well, like so many of them, it's, you know, based on a lie and it's about oil.
That's kind of the, the, the, the nub of it, you know?
Yep.
Sounds about right.
All right.
So now, uh, that's a terrible sin to accuse your government of lying.
Which particular lie are you referring to here?
Oh, just so many of them.
It's, it's hard to, uh, hard to, uh, nail one down in particular.
You know, they're, we've got a similar situation going on in Syria right now.
Nobody's talking about getting in there because there's no oil, basically.
Uh, you know, Gaddafi has been on the radar screen since the Reagan administration and, uh, uh, you know, one form or another, and then it became our friend, uh, a few years ago when, uh, uh, when he was going to give us some of the oil and now for whatever reason, I guess, with the other events in the Arab spring and, and, uh, you know, the WikiLeaks, uh, uh, with Bradley Manning.
I think that he's, uh, he's persona non grata again, and now we want him out.
And, uh, you know, I'm not sure, nor do I think anybody's sure.
You, you seem to have a pretty good pulse on it as far as how many of these rebels there are, who these rebels are in, in Libya and, uh, uh, Geez, the New Yorker said there was a thousand of them.
Right.
Exactly.
One thousand, a ragtag band of, uh, Mad Max guys in the back of pickup trucks, you know, you don't army at all.
No.
And you know, our air support, no, no matter how, um, heavy it gets, it just really can't support a thousand troops.
If that number is correct.
And that's the number I've heard.
I've not heard any, any, uh, any greater number than that.
Nor have I heard what these guys are about and they don't like Gaddafi.
Well, a lot of people don't like Gaddafi, uh, including me, he's, uh, he's, he's no, uh, he's no Gandhi, you know, but, um, he, he does have a base of support amongst his tribal people from what I read and, uh, in the Western part of Libya and that's, that's where most of the oil is.
Uh, he, he said, uh, you know, when this thing first started going out, that it would break down into a civil war if we weren't careful and his prediction is true, uh, it's, it's an East versus West thing and, and doesn't look like a lot of support in the East outside of, um, you know, the second city of, uh, of Libya.
Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know if you guys are working up a bunch of statements about, uh, what not to do there.
Now that we're already in, you know, they're going to end up having to escalate, uh, unless somebody gets a real lucky shot at Muammar Gaddafi at some point here, John McCain's going to start, you know, complaining and crying so loud, Obama's going to have to send the Marines into Tripoli, I think.
And, uh, you know, that's where we started talking about not just those sort of unpersons over there, the, the intermention or whatever in North Africa, but Americans are going to start dying over there before too long.
It seems like the only alternative to that is Obama admitting that he completely screwed up and got us into a war he shouldn't have got us into and just admitting he lost and leaving Gaddafi in power and going home and that ain't going to happen.
No.
And, you know, it does bring in a whole, um, you know, a whole different argument, uh, with, uh, you know, I know Ron Paul and yourself and several others have, have, have, and Kucinich and so forth that, you know, how did we get in here?
You know, just one man's, uh, declaration that, um, by the way, we're going in, uh, by the way, we're already in, uh, and, and no congressional consultation and, and nobody seems to really be pushing the, uh, you know, the violation of the War Powers Act outside of, uh, you know, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul and maybe a couple of others.
Yep.
Well, and that really is the thing.
It's funny.
I was just talking with this guy in Israel, uh, a Jewish peace activist in Tel Aviv, uh, talking about the crisis of the permanent occupation over there.
And he was talking about the major disconnect between the people of Israel and the Likud government that they're stuck with that just keeps beating them over the head with the security issue.
And you're going to get suicide bombed and all this stuff, uh, all day and night.
And so they end up going along perpetually with a policy they're opposed to.
It sounds a lot like America to me.
Yeah, I did catch part of that interview and there are some similarities, isn't there?
That's pretty cool.
It really does.
Uh, it really does a strike a familiar, a familiar tone.
And I guess, you know, the only hope is that the disparity is so obvious to so many people now that it can't continue on, but I can't say I see the path to accountability either, you know?
No.
Uh, you know, and I think that the, uh, and I'm sure you would agree that the democratic, uh, activists that were so against the wars of George Bush seem to have faded away on election day after Barack Obama became, became president.
And, and it's, it's very disturbing to me because, you know, if George Bush would have done the same thing, you know, the, the, uh, the, uh, democratic activists that were against the war, you know, the move about orks or whomever would have, would have been far more stringent than, than they have been.
Um, you know, with this escalation in Afghanistan and now Syria.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I saw the most ridiculous poll number like that the other day that had, I think it was just yesterday that had, um, 70% of the American people are against the war in Afghanistan.
Uh, but then it was 70% of Democrats approve of Barack Obama's handling of Afghanistan.
Yeah, there's definitely a disconnect.
Yeah.
I guess the easiest way to explain that is that, uh, is a, is a mile wide and an inch deep.
Uh, they just don't seem to be as, as, uh, as opposed to the war of Barack Obama, as they were, you know, when, when George Bush was in charge.
And I know I listened to Cindy, she had an interview that you did, uh, I don't know what, two months ago or so when you had her on and she, you know, it's been a constant complaint of hers is, uh, is the fact that, you know, the, the Democrats seem to be okay as long as it's a Democrat war, but not okay when it's a Republican war.
And it's, it's, it's a, definitely a, a double standard.
It's laughable anymore.
Yeah.
Well, it really is sad.
I mean, you think back to even 2002, 2003, it was pretty obvious that most of the people protesting that war were at the very least silent, if not supportive of Bill Clinton's war in Kosovo.
And if it had been anybody, but a bunch of oil executives and neocons planning the thing, uh, if it had been Bill Clinton's third term and he had said, we're going to go liberate the Iraqi people and whatever, and we're going to go to the United Nations for resolution saying it's okay first and whatever, they would have gone right along with it.
It was just that it was a bunch of guys that, I mean, they thought Bush was from Texas anyway, like in the TV show.
And, uh, and, uh, so they just didn't trust, you know, oh, cynical Texas Republican oil men, Christian types that we don't like.
So they couldn't possibly really have good motives.
But if Bill Clinton and Madeline Albright had been implementing the exact same policy, they would have been for it.
So now here we are again, it's just the same thing.
Yep.
You're exactly right.
It's, uh, the actions are not important.
It's, uh, whether you have a D or an R behind your name, that, that is the most important thing, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Well, and certainly we can see, uh, all of a sudden this reemergence of at least the war skeptical, right?
If not the anti-war right in this country, but it's not based on, you know, everybody went back and read Garrett Garett or anything like that.
It's just that they don't like Barack Obama.
And so why would you put him in charge of a war?
You know, he's a Kenyan secret agent here to get us or something.
Exactly.
And, and, you know, it's, it's something that, you know, we've probably done a poor job of, and then, um, uh, you know, uh, I hope that we can, we can do better as far as reaching out to the anti-war rights, which I know is the large part of your audience, and we probably have done a poor job of reaching out to those folks because I guess probably the easiest way to explain it in my local chapter here in, uh, in Nashville, we've, we've got a, you know, a pretty hardcore libertarian and a pretty hardcore socialist, and they both agree that war sucks.
Um, they disagree, you know, on the causes of war, but, but they definitely disagree that war sucks and we're all veterans and we're all opposed to war.
So, uh, you know, it's probably something that we need to do on our end to outreach to some of the folks with the more, more libertarian minded.
Yeah, there you go.
Well, we can talk more about that.
I hope when we get back from this break, it's Joey King.
He sits on the board of veterans for peace, veterans for peace.org.
If you're a veteran and you're for peace, you might should join up.
All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
It's anti-war radio.
I'm Scott Horton and I'm talking with Joey King from the veterans for peace about the wars, lots and lots of wars.
Uh, so, uh, yeah, we're talking about the anti-war right.
As long as Democrats are in power, at least they're listening.
Uh, especially if you can focus on the money, but, um, you know, I think that's also kind of instructive.
I don't know.
It depends on, you know, how dumb the conservative you're dealing with is, but, uh, you know, maybe they could be taught that, you know, war is the health of the state and that's bad.
And just look at what a giant empire you created, uh, by supporting George Bush that they, and you turned over to this devil Obama.
And, you know, uh, wasn't that a mistake.
And just like now Obama has the power to torture people.
Are you sure you wanted that?
Ooh, what if it was Hillary Clinton?
Then how bad could it be?
Uh, you know, war is, uh, it's not just what's bankrupting our treasurer, our government's treasury, our own, uh, our own bank accounts.
It's also a completely, you know, bankrupting the bill of rights.
It's bankrupting the American way.
You know, I agree.
And I think that, uh, you know, there is a, um, of course, you know, Ron Paul announcing his presidency today.
And, uh, uh, I know you had referenced a poll from about six months ago that basically split the tea party movement in half, uh, you know, half of them believe that Ron Paul did, uh, you know, more or less what you were just saying.
And the other half were more of a Sarah Palin kind of people.
And, uh, there is definitely a, uh, uh, you know, strong and I think stronger, um, anti-imperialist right.
Uh, and I think people, you know, start to see through it a little bit more, uh, that, that the bill of rights and the size of government expands, uh, in a war.
And, uh, uh, you know, there's, there's just no way in it.
Uh, you know, individual liberty does, uh, does suffer greatly when you have, uh, have those things, uh, uh, happen.
Yeah.
Well, you know, back in, uh, 2002 in the run up to the Iraq war, I thought, you know, cause there were a lot of people who were, you know, kind of the populist right who hated more than just Bill Clinton, but the actual government and really were anti-war in Kosovo, that kind of thing, who basically just were so jaded with the system in general.
They couldn't believe in George Bush or anything like that, you know?
And, um, I thought it was such a shame that they didn't, uh, you know, have the leadership or whatever to, to get together and march in their camouflage.
Cause almost all of them are veterans, you know, and march in their camouflage with signs that said right wing and anti-war and go march with the hippies against the war, try to stop it.
A lot of them were against, a lot of them knew that Saddam Hussein had been bombed and blockaded for a dozen years, that he couldn't be a threat even to Kuwait at this point, much less, uh, the United States.
And, uh, it seems like that's really the powerful message that needs to be heard.
That's why people took to Ron Paul so quickly back in 2007, uh, was because he was saying, you don't have to be a Michael Moore type to be anti-war.
You could be, uh, you know, Christian Republican from Texas like me and say that this is just unwise.
It's, you know, we're wasting our money.
We're creating enemies and, and, uh, changing the nature of our own society at home and all those great arguments in, um, and, uh, let people like go ahead and say, oh, okay, well, cool.
Then, you know, I don't have to be like Michael Moore.
I can be like Ron Paul and be anti-war and they signed right up, you know?
Well, you know, I, I, I, I tried personally, you know, to, to recruit a lot of people, you know, from the anti-war right, uh, to, to, you know, maybe participate in rallies and stuff.
And it was kind of weird because a lot of them thought that, oh, you know, some of the Michael Moore is going to rub off on me.
It's like, you know, handling toxic material or something.
I really can't explain it.
And I, you know, just from a personal, um, quest that I had, uh, I, you know, didn't have, uh, a great deal of luck, uh, one-on-one with a lot of the people that I knew that better of that persuasion.
Um, but, uh, you know, certainly, uh, I'm not, not wanting to give up at all, but, uh, it is kind of weird that they, they just felt that, uh, a lot of them, oh, gosh, we can't be hanging around with those lefties.
And even though you, you do agree with them on the anti-war position, you know, there's, there's, I believe a lot of those folks felt that it was just, um, just, uh, going to rub off on them somehow that Michael Moore would rub off on them.
I, it's, it's difficult to explain.
Yeah.
Well, you know, every time the party switched back and forth, uh, you know, more or less half the population, uh, is mollified and the other half gets to be angry for a little while and then they switch back again.
But also people wash out too.
And there are some people who notice that the next guy is just like the last guy and that maybe they really aren't a Democrat or maybe they're really not a Republican.
Like they thought they were, uh, when they see the continuity of what the, of the change that they thought they were going to get when they fell for it, you know, back before.
So I think, you know, it, it takes a while apparently, but, uh, slowly, but surely I think more and more people are really realizing like we were talking about before that disconnect between, you know, the way things really are and the way our government would have us believe and what's the wise thing to do and what, what it is that they want to do.
And I guess, um, I'm not really sure how anything's going to really, you know, for the, the process for changing any of it, but it seems like at some point there's gotta be just a critical mass of understanding about, you know, priorities at least, you know, what's most important, like ending these wars for crying out loud.
Well, the, you know, the young people in this last election, and if you go back and look, uh, you know, 1972 when 18 year olds got the right to vote, of course you had the draft going on and, uh, you know, they voted overwhelmingly Democrat and the greatest percentage they'd ever voted until the Obama election.
Um, uh, you know, they, they just really stayed at home up until the Obama election, but I think a lot of those people came disillusioned pretty quickly when they saw that Obama was just the same.
Uh, you know, Obama does have a, a nicer tone, uh, of the, of the language, uh, than, than Bush, uh, but as far as the policies, I can't tell any difference.
Uh, you know, he's nicer about it.
He's not as blunt and as belligerent as George Bush was, but, uh, I don't think that he's changed significantly from the policies of George Bush.
And I think the younger people saw through that pretty quickly.
Uh, uh, and if you remember, uh, the email database that Obama had when, uh, when he was running for office was, you know, supposedly, uh, you don't want to take and, uh, be adapted and move on with all these different policies that they wanted to implement and everything.
And they basically did nothing with it, which tells you that they didn't want to do anything with it in my mind, because they certainly could have, you know, mobilized the population to do anything.
And I think the population was ready for some significant change.
And then, you know, they just needed a direction to be pointed to and nobody pointed them within the democratic party.
I think a lot of people got disillusioned.
I believe, I believe you're right.
They just looked at that.
Ah, this is what everybody was telling me that, uh, that was older than me that, you know, a lot of these, these, these, you know, don't get your hopes up too high.
And I think that was very evident with the, uh, younger people in the last election.
Well, now, so, uh, what about veterans for peace?
Is y'all's membership dropped off?
Is it getting stronger again?
Maybe, uh, we, we have had, uh, you know, I think every movement, uh, with economy kind of tanking, uh, a couple of years ago, um, uh, you know, how to, how to down downsize a little bit.
Uh, but we have, uh, been building our membership back up at the moment.
We've got 12, uh, forming chapters, uh, you know, which people put the, uh, paperwork in and are, are waiting, uh, to get more people to join.
I know there are two in Tennessee and I want to Knoxville and, uh, one in Johnson city.
There's a new chapter forming in the Philippines.
Um, so we, we, we got, uh, and I know there was an e-blast came out that then you can go to veterans for peace.org.
And if you want to join one of the new chapters or an existing chapter or no chapter at all, feel free to feel free to join us, uh, for that.
But, uh, yeah, it does seem to be coming back steadily.
Uh, over the last, uh, 12 to 18 months, we, we've, uh, you know, gradually been building our membership back up.
Well, that's good.
I don't know, uh, you know, what could possibly be effective.
It seems like, uh, maybe doing a primary challenges from the left on some of these Democrats in the house of representatives and, uh, and, uh, you know, hitting them with their failure to do anything about the wars and, and, and being able to claim veteran for peace at the same time is a good way to, to silence the critics who say, you can't talk about war unless you've been there or whatever, you know what I mean?
You get to outflank them on the been there issue and on the, uh, they're not doing anything right about it, about an issue and, and maybe force the conversation a little bit more toward the anti-war sense in the primary election coming up.
What do you think?
Well, it does, uh, you know, just the name itself, you know, kind of tells you that, you know, we were, we were on one side of the issue, you know, many years ago and now we're not.
And, uh, uh, you know, it does give you some street cred, so to speak, as soon as you mentioned that name or wear a t-shirt or a hat that says veterans for peace people, you know, they, they, they kind of look at you a little different line, I think.
Um, and I gave a, um, uh, a talk to a high school here in, uh, in Nashville, um, a couple of weeks ago.
And, um, uh, apparently it's like we've done it for six years now.
Uh, and apparently so popular that we're going to have to rent an auditorium or, uh, uh, book the high school auditorium next year.
There are some, many of the kids were talking about it.
Well, maybe you ought to consider running for Congress.
Who's your challenge him from the left.
I'm a conscientious non-voter.
Oh, good.
Well, yeah, me too.
I'm I'm at the bottom of the barrel here, grasping in straws.
All right.
Thanks.
Uh, Joey King, everybody veterans for peace.org.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks Scott.