All right, y'all, welcome back to Antiwar Radio Chaos 92.7 FM in Austin, Texas.
We're also streaming, I think, still, no, I guess the link's dead by now because we're over time.
But anyway, usually we're streaming from antiwar.com slash radio, and that's where we keep the archives of all these great interviews.
Another one coming up this very moment with Chris Floyd.
The blog is called Empire Burlesque.
It's at chris-floyd.com.
Empire Burlesque is also the name of the book.
And you know, every time I read Chris's blog, it always reminds me of Garrett Garrett because Chris always writes about the fall of the republic, the end of America.
This is it.
We have blown it.
They drew a line and then they crossed it and then they drew another one and they crossed it again.
And that's it.
And our constitution, our republic is dead.
And I think of Garrett Garrett said, don't look to the future for the revolution.
It already passed in the night, singing songs to freedom.
That was 50 years ago, 60 years ago now.
All right.
Welcome to the show, Chris.
Good to talk to you again, my friend.
Yeah, good to talk to you.
All right.
So I got to tell you, your site bums me out because you see the world with such clarity.
At least according to my point of view, and you write so well about it, it's oftentimes some really heartbreaking stuff the way you force, you know, white Americans, I guess, the exceptional to put themselves in the shoes of the people who are our government's victims around the world.
And you remind people that Smallies are just people just like them and, you know, name the country where our government slaughtering people, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and on and on like that.
And that's what I really, really like about your blog is you're very succinct and you do a lot of that other shoes kind of writing, which is sorely lacking, a perspective that I think most commentators these days can't even try out, much less, you know, put into written word form.
Well, yeah.
Well, thanks a lot.
I mean, in a lot of ways, it's not much fun because you have to, but as you say, our reality is not much fun at this time.
I guess one thing, I mean, one reason I write about a lot of this stuff is precisely because of what you said.
You know, there's a huge gap.
I write about it because no one else, I'm not no one else, but you know what I mean?
Not a lot of other people are writing about it.
So I write about a lot of these things just to try to find out myself what's going on and try to find out for myself what the implications are of the little nuggets of fact that you can draw.
You know, you can get a little fact here and a little fact there from mainstream media.
And there are some really good reporters, as I've mentioned on my blog this week, Carlotta in Afghanistan.
So you can pull some facts from the mainstream media, but then you have to, you know, and try to put aside all the spin that they put on it.
And then what you have to try to do, you know, what I try to do is just try to say, well, what does this mean?
What's actually happening?
And, and also, I guess the main thing I'm trying to do is, is that what is really happening, you know, let's just call it in the words to describe the reality.
It's like a Confucius said, you know what he said, you know, how do you reform the state?
You first have to rectify the language.
You have to call things by the right name.
You have to call an atrocity, atrocity, not, you know, an unfortunate incident.
You have to call torture, torture, and not rigorous interrogation.
You know, you have to call mass murder, mass murder, when, as we saw last week, 90 civilians are wiped out in a small village in Afghanistan.
I mean, that's the main point is that, and I guess the reason, as I say, the reason I keep doing it is because there's just not a lot of that.
Of course, you know, in the, all kinds of blogs and people that write and do it much better than I, but I just, you know, for myself, that's what I'm trying to do.
And if you try to look at what's going on out there, if you use that phrase that the Bush people love, you know, what unvarnished truth or unvarnished advice, whatever it is, unvarnished, if you try, just try to peel off the varnish and try to step outside the media bubble where assumptions aren't even questioned, you know, I mean, you don't even question it.
It's like, you know, why are we in Afghanistan?
We don't even question it.
It's the good war.
We don't even think about it.
So, you know, you have to step back and step back and think about these things.
And of course, as I say, other people are doing it.
I mean, Ted Rall has been excellent on Afghanistan from the very word go, you know, and quite forthright.
And he actually does have a mainstream media presence.
He has a column, a syndicated column.
So there are people out there.
But anyway, that's sort of what's going on in the, at our place.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's really important when you focus on the manipulation of language.
You know, I think I must've been 14 or something when I saw George Carlin do his bit about euphemisms and how we call toilet paper, bathroom tissue, and partly cloudy, partly sunny.
And motels became motor lodges and shell shock became post-traumatic stress disorder, eight syllables and a hyphen and all that kind of thing.
And that's something that I notice so often, the manipulation of language and, and in fact, even sort of the abandonment of argument for just slogans.
And, you know, a slogan is, I guess it's OK if you know that there's this whole other, you know, at least paragraph worth of explanation that it stands for or something.
But we live in a world where the surge has worked and it just worked.
OK, that's it.
There's no argument behind it.
It's simply a slogan.
That's good enough.
Nobody even knows what worked means.
Well, absolutely.
Of course.
I mean, you've seized on one of the most salient points going today.
The surge has worked and it's become, as you say, overwhelmingly adopted as the conventional system, as one of those assumptions that aren't questioned.
But as you know, it is linguistically, it's a meaningless sentence.
It doesn't mean the surge has worked.
What does it mean that it worked?
And what is your evidence that the surge has worked?
Well, you know, I've written about this before.
And Juan Coe recently wrote a very good piece on how the surge has not worked at all and how what this so-called reduction in violence in Iraq has simply, you know, ratcheted down the violence from just an unimaginably hellish level to the level of some of the worst civic conflicts in the last 100 years.
Lebanon and Sri Lanka and these places that, you know, Lebanon during the 70s, during the Civil War in the 70s and 80s and Sri Lanka today and all these places, which, you know, were considered or are considered living hell.
This is the reality of the success of the surge.
But no, it's absolutely.
I mean, this is, as you say, the manipulation of language and the use of language that insulates people from reality is very important.
Again, I'll come back to your example of the surge.
The surge is the success.
This has had a tremendous effect.
This meme, this slogan, this lie has had a tremendous effect, as we can see, on the American political campaign in the last year because it's totally taken Iraq off the table.
The Democrats don't want to talk about Iraq.
They don't want to talk.
I mean, they never want to talk about Iraq anyway, because what can they say?
I mean, their plan is essentially, Obama's plan is essentially the same plan as McCain and Bush's.
You know, we're going to withdraw combat troops at some point in the near future, you know, depending on the circumstances on the ground.
We're going to leave behind a residual force to do A, B, C, D.
But anyway, I mean, but the Democrats have taken it off the table as an issue, just put it away, because, well, it's a success.
We don't want to talk about it.
As I wrote earlier this week, Obama was on television last week on Fox TV, Fox News, talking about the surge as wildly successful, successful beyond our wildest dreams.
Well, I mean, this is just, I think Arthur Silva has written about this just today, about Democrats, you know, reverting to their old tradition of giving the game away.
I mean, if you come on and you say, well, the surge has been a great success, you've just handed, and the surge in Iraq had been McCain's, you know, signature issue.
I backed the surge and the surge was a success.
You just handed him, you know, you just given up, you handed your sword to the enemy.
I mean, it's just ridiculous.
But as I say, that's what I mean.
This manipulation of language, this surge bit has been, you know, a masterstroke.
You know, I've done this, I've said this before.
I don't know if Bush, whoever Bush is controlling, you know, Roe, all these people, are sometimes underestimated because they can't govern.
You know, Bush can't govern.
The Bush administration, they can't govern.
The Bush faction, they can't govern a country.
They have no interest in governing a country.
They have no interest in preserving a republic.
They have no interest in doing any of that kind of stuff.
But in politics, they're very, very good at maintaining power and at manipulating a message.
And this thing about the surge has just been a masterstroke politically.
And of course, but it all ties into a larger thing.
One reason it's a masterstroke politically is that because the mainstream media has sort of abandoned Iraq.
And they had to abandon Iraq because it's such a hellhole to be there.
It's not safe, you know, it's not safe for the reporters.
You know, if you, I was talking to someone last night, I think I was telling my oldest daughter, I was talking about television coverage of Vietnam, the Vietnam War.
She's 22, you know, we were talking about the contrast between the Vietnam War and what's going on now.
And I was very cognizant of what's going on in Vietnam.
I was just, if it had gone on another year or two, I would have been up for the draft though.
But you had, you had reporters.
Of course, there was some control, but they were, they were ranging all over Vietnam.
You know, if they could get to a base, they could see what happened.
I recall seeing stories where this is, you know, well, the Pentagon tonight said, you know, so-and-so and so-and-so having a case on.
But here at Khe Sanh, I can tell you that, you know, that it wasn't that way.
Well, there's nothing, absolutely nothing remotely like that and never has been like that in Iraq.
And so, as a young child, basically growing up, I saw this stuff about Vietnam.
It was like an introduction to the way the world really is and what's going on.
But what about these generations that's grown up from the first Gulf War to now, where all the wars are insulated behind these slogans, the war on terror, the war of Iraqi freedom, you know, the surge of success, but they're insulated behind slogans.
They're insulated behind, you know, this absolute Soviet-like control of the media, what gets out on the battlefront.
And so, you eliminate the media that way, first of all, by not letting them go in some places and also making it so dangerous that they can't be there.
And, of course, you can report that the surge is success.
I mean, who's going to against that, you know?
I mean, of course, antiwar.com will find the stories here and there, will pick out the stories here and there in the world, you know, from people like Patrick Coburn and things like that.
I mean, you know, Darja Mail and people like that, you can find them.
But, you know, in the broad sense, where are you going to find this sort of thing?
It's not out there.
I mean, how is a 13-year-old boy watching television going to find out this kind of thing?
He's not going to find out about it, you know.
So, it's been a masterstroke.
And it's taken the very thing that put Obama into national prominence was the fact that he was considered, and, you know, we should emphasize that, he was considered an antiwar candidate.
And this is what brought him to national prominence.
This was the main thing, the selling point, against him, against Hillary Clinton, was she voted for the war, what can you say?
But, I mean, the point is that that issue is gone.
And Obama himself has given it away, of course, because his plan calls for a continuation of the war.
And now he's given away the surge, because he's accepted his conventional wisdom.
It's been a masterstroke, and it's been a disaster, because I've also mentioned, and I don't mean to go on about this, but I mentioned earlier this week, when I talked about the success of the surge, and I wrote somewhere that, yes, the surge has been a success, in the same way that what Albert Speer did during World War II.
As you know, he was the head of Hitler's armaments from 1943 to 1945, and he worked miracles, miracles, at keeping the German war machine going, when it, by all rights, should have collapsed.
You know, he kept the German economy going, he kept the war machine going, production going.
Yes, that was a great success, and what did it do?
It, you know, prolonged the war by two more years, millions and millions of people died, and those were also years of the height of the Holocaust.
Well, but it was a success, wasn't it?
He did what he had to do.
And the surge, too, has done the same thing.
It has prolonged the war, it has prolonged our involvement in the war, and in that terms, it is a success.
But in any other conceivable measure, especially, and I know this is quite naive to think about the human measurement, of all the thousands and thousands of people who have died, and the hundreds of Americans who have died since that time.
You know, it's a gigantic, catastrophic failure of the human spirit, if you want to call it that.
You know, it's been a triumph of ethnic cleansing, a triumph of corruption, a triumph of creating new militias that will be fighting later on, you know, these Sunni militias, these Sons of Iraq, the Awakening Movement, you know, what they've done there is just created another, this is, they did al-Qaeda back in the first go-round in Afghanistan, you know, this is another army of ethnic extremists that will be coming back to bite us in the tail later on.
So, I mean, this, yeah, it's a success, like Shabir's war machine, Nazi war machine was a success, but it's off the table, right?
No one's talking about it.
And here we are.
Well, you know, as far as the disappointment about Obama, and I know you never suffered any, but as far as all the people who thought that this guy was a peace candidate, you know, they, these people who are getting the Sarah Palin-style glasses and all getting their hair done like Sarah Palin now and falling for all this sloganeering on the right, the Democrats who fell for this Barack Obama scam are no different whatsoever.
It all comes down to a bunch of slogans.
In fact, you think about these guys, change, experience, one word slogan, change, experience, change, experience, change, experience, three slogans, a syllable here, three syllables there.
And you know what?
For the first time I think ever in American history, there was actually somebody running for president who really did want to restore the republic, who didn't even want to be president, who really did want to end the war, and it was Ron Paul.
And they all told him, go to hell, you must hate queers or something, we don't like you, we believe in Obama, and he lost.
That's the point you made about we're down to one word slogan.
Chicken and every pot, at least that had five or six, seven words in it.
It's change, reform, hope.
But you're absolutely right.
I didn't have any illusions about Obama, but I suppose in the early days one could have hoped that he would have just simply adopted several positions just to get elected because these are popular positions, restoring the republic, restoring the rule of law.
If you run on these positions, they're fairly popular in a lot of ways but yes, you're right, another thing you were right about too comparing Obama to Palin, is this is where the democrats, if you live by a celebrity, you die by a celebrity.
And one thing that Obama was, they emptied out the substance of anything that was in Obama's campaign and they made it all about him, his story, the personality, his remarkable story.
Yes, of course it is.
But they made it all about the story, the narrative.
All this is meaningless.
All this is meaningless against the backdrop of a million people dead in Iraq in the name of America.
That's what's happening.
A million people, that's a massive sort of genocidal frenzy that's been going on in the name of America with bipartisan support.
That's the background of all this.
But if you're going to run a campaign and you run it based on this emptiness, well then of course you're getting back to the horse race aspect which I really hate in a lot of ways to talk about the campaign, who's ahead, who's behind.
But it's just, the democrats are just running I think I mentioned the other day referring to Obama as the new Dukakis.
They just run these campaigns over and over again and it's just ridiculous.
That's funny, the new Dukakis.
That's actually really good.
Oh, didn't he lose spectacularly?
Yeah.
I have a lot of trouble preferring Obama to McCain at all until I just look at the depths of evil in McCain.
I just think he's probably the most dangerous man in the world and probably I think only John McCain could make Barack Obama look good at this point.
Forget all this stupid election thing.
Let's talk about something real, man.
There's a new cold war going on here after the cold war ended maybe before that.
You were a reporter, you wrote for the Moscow Times which isn't Pravda.
You wrote for the Moscow Times I know you lived in Russia for quite a while there and you see NATO expansion to Russia's doorstep in Poland, in the Czech Republic soon.
Apparently all factions agree again you can lump Obama in with Cheney and McCain and NATO as well and obviously the conflict over South Ossetia a month ago and all this stuff.
What the hell is going on here?
Is there any real reason why we need to have a conflict with Russia and what is behind this do you think?
Well I mean that's a huge question I mean there's a lot of things behind it.
I mean there's no reason to have this kind of conflict I mean there's plenty of good reasons if you want to operate if you want to perpetuate the national security state as Gore Vidal talks about that we've had since 1947 or so if you want to perpetuate that if you want to perpetuate the house of war as James Carroll wrote in his wonderful book about the Pentagon which has militarized our economy militarized our society and if you want to perpetuate that well no I mean that's what I mean these are the reasons why you would fuel this sort of thing and of course Russia has great energy resources now and they have dominion domination over other pipelines and things like that but no of course there's no I mean of course it's a ridiculous thing to do and this thing about fast tracking fast tracking Georgia into NATO is just is remarkably is a remarkably insane strategy to pursue because as Sarah Palin said you know well good you know if Georgia decides to jab Russia again we might all be involved in a world war with them because yes she said we might have to go to war with them because if they're in NATO and they get into a war we'll have to back them and again all this can be no one wants to apologize for being an apologist for Putin and that regime and the Russian regime although at the same time you don't want to it's just it just kind of boggles my mind it's a huge power they're a very strong power they're a super power they've got nuclear missiles that they could aim at us and wipe us out at any time or kill hundreds of millions of people you have to treat them seriously you have to take them seriously you can't treat them as if they're a Venezuela like we're trying to do now you know and accuse their ministers of being terrorist supporters as Bush has done today with Venezuela well I want to know more about this guy Putin and what you can tell me about him God help me I saw Henry Kissinger on TV say listen if this guy Vladimir Putin is making himself a dictator of Russia stepping down from the presidency when he could have simply amended the constitution and run again and won handily and becoming prime minister sure is a strange route to take and we ought to not be pushing this conflict and boy are things really going on with Henry Kissinger the voice of reason in the imperial court in Washington DC of course Kissinger is a is a vile war criminal in very many respects but he's always been somewhat of a voice of reason in some respects especially remember he was an architect of detente back in the old days so you know Kissinger does have this experience and that he has dealt with the Soviet Union the real Soviet Union and he's dealt with real Soviet dictators as you know a lot of people have and it's sort of he's a real real Soviet leader you see I mean what we have now Russia is not a paradise on earth or anything like that but what you're dealing with if you compare it to the Soviet Union if you compare it to the threat of the Soviet Union if you compare it to the aggression of the Soviet Union if you compare it to the ambitions of the Soviet Union if you compare it to the internal especially the internal situation that the people themselves lived in the Soviet Union it's um there is no comparison you know 15 years ago this vast empire ideological empire based on repression and controlling hundreds of millions of people outside of Russia's borders with nuclear weapons aimed at the United States and other western nations and um this is what you had 15 years ago and now what do you have you have a regime that's a partner in a lot of things with the west doesn't have any sort of comparison to what you were facing before and so uh but of course they've just sort of ratcheted up the same who are these guys doing I mean it's Cheney it's uh it's the Bushes these guys have been around for 40, 30 years this is what they do this is what they know and of course now that you have the energy equation into all of it it makes it a real conflict before you know the conflict between the United States and the Soviet Union was ideological and in some way that's sort of the best way to be you know because like we weren't really dicing with the Soviets over resources and things like that you know we didn't have uh any bottom lines in the American power structure you know and uh big business you know because it was a completely closed economy anyway right we can't make any money out of that that's just closed off you know so we went on like that but now you see Russia threatens the bottom line of a lot of big corporations they threaten the bottom line of the energy you know they even threaten the bottom line I mean they want to be a big player in the energy market you know so suddenly you know before there wasn't that much money on the line except for maybe a Pepsi Cola plant in the Soviet Union back in the 70s but you know now there's real money there's oils on the line and that's why it's even more serious you know these guys will go to war with that I don't think they've ever gone to war with ideology you know they wouldn't attack Russia because they were communist eating their babies or anything like that they don't care about that they absolutely don't care about that but if Russia threatens them well now Sarah Palin wasn't doing anything but being honest unlike John McCain and Dick Cheney and the rest of them she said frankly to Charles Gibson yes see the way it works Charles is that NATO membership is a war guarantee that means yes we'll have a war with Russia if they invade NATO once they join don't you understand that which says only that she's so stupid that she doesn't know she's not supposed other than that she actually got it right out of the mouths of babes I can admit that in the children's sense not the sexist sense but because I was thinking of the biblical quotation but I thought NATO was supposed to be an alliance for peace that's what we've been told all these last 50 years I didn't know it was a war trigger but yes of course you'll often find newcomers being a little too forthright about what's actually going on well what do you mean NATO membership isn't a war guarantee no it's all about peace isn't it don't you think it's about peace oh well yeah I mean I remember that's what it said on the brochure and everything yeah yeah alright just making sure I got you there the difference between the narrative and the truth yeah alright now tell me this I'm just taking a shot in the dark but I'm willing to bet that you know all about Joe Biden what do you think of him Barack Obama's running mate paradise on earth no actually I think I wrote in my blog I was on vacation at the time I was at a place where they didn't speak the language but having just it was like one of the very few times I had a chance to sit down and see 20 minutes of CNN see what was going on in the world I hadn't heard anything going on in the world for about 5 or 6 days which was quite blissful considering the way the world is these days but I turned on the television there was Obama there was Joe Biden and I just burst out laughing absolutely again from this horse race aspect it's like the worst pick you could possibly imagine except for possible exception of Joe Lieberman I just couldn't here's this old white corporate courtesan I don't want to say boneheaded sort of goober and the only reason he was picked because he's old and white and he's sort of bellicose and on top of that if you're going to talk about a horse race aspect on top of that he comes from one of the smallest you were from California or something or some swing state I mean I just couldn't believe it and I wrote about it in my column course in my blog I've been against Biden for years especially because of the bankruptcy bill I don't know if you know about the bankruptcy bill which was one of the most as I've said before one of the most draconian weapons used in the last quarter century in the class war you know as being waged against working people and the poor in the country why don't you elaborate on that tell us about the bankruptcy law was written by the it was a law that tried to get passed for years and years and years and years and it was always defeated at the last minute but it's a it's a law written basically by it was written by the credit card companies and the financial services industry to favor the financial services and make already strict bankruptcy laws in America and I can tell you they're pretty strict even in the old days when they were supposedly so lenient and just really tightened them and made sure that in many bankruptcies one of the provisions was in many bankruptcies the credit card companies would get paid first before anybody else you see if you had to go into liquidation if you had to go declare yourself bankrupt the credit card companies are going to get their money you know up front even sometimes before child support before you know medical insurance this kind of thing it just made it much harder to declare bankruptcy much harder to write off any debt I mean I can't I don't have all the details in front of me now but you know in Delaware where a lot of these credit card companies are incorporated and he's just I mean he's their bag man he's their boy he's always been he's the senator from MNBA or whatever the big credit card company is up there well you know they always completely ignore the responsibility of the government and the banks working together to inflate the currency with their low reserve ratios and their artificially low interest rates where they basically lure all these people in they go ah sorry and then they wage a war against the inflation they cause and raise the interest rates screw everybody force them into bankruptcy and then they get to collect all their property for pennies on the dollar absolutely I mean I wrote about this years ago about we know what the bankruptcy law did that was a key point when it first came up when I first wrote about it it was 2000 2003 there was no cheap credit no interest rates they targeted the old they targeted the young people just starting out they targeted the sick there was of course you were going to take I can't get money here you want money here's a thousand dollars here's two thousand dollars and the next thing you know they pull it in yes of course it was the government and the corporate policies to create all this debt and to protect these predators Joe Biden I wrote him off a long time ago he's very bellicose he's very well he's one of the guys who went straight to Georgia and said we're all Georgians now like John McCain he was the guy that said Obama said over to Georgia let's fast track let's go to war against these Ruskies and all this sort of thing he's got a whole long history not only of campaign gaffes he had to quit he just came ready made with all kinds of things again from the horse race aspect they could just nitpick him to death and I think it was his other repeating thing that the pig showed was that I think he was picked specifically because of that flurry that came during the Russia Georgia conflict I think he was picked specifically to handle that one issue which shows a complete lack of vision much less a dream of hope there's a lot of bad press going on about that we better get someone who's really tough and bellicose and white and is in the power structure and get him in here right away but of course the Russia Georgia thing has already sort of dropped off the radar now I mean it's not dropped off the radar that way people but people out there in the general public it's something they've already moved on so it was like a panic decision and of course Obama's been showing this over and over and over again from his vote for the FISA law his vote for warrantless wiretapping and surveillance of the American people and to immunize vast huge corporations for taking part in blatantly illegal operations for the FISA and the spying on American people from that vote to his positions on Iran his positions on Iraq but this was the final confirmation that all you're going to get I mean there's nothing new there's no reform there's no hope you just get two more guys that are going to serve this militaristic empire building constitution gutting the system that we have you know that's what you're going to get from that's what it is the caucus and bintan it's just the same old thing they're all for war on terror and they're all for expanding the war to Pakistan which is what we see now is happening and it's just as you say even if you don't have any illusions about Obama and the democrats it's still a despairing thing to see well you know if we have time I'd like to get back to Pakistan but right now I want to I already agree on the record that America needs to expand our intervention in Africa and of course this is a topic something that you've written about and that's caused I think quite a bit of controversy you dare to assert sir that Somalis are human beings and it's wrong for Americans to have them slaughtered in mass how can you possibly defend no I know this mouth come on here and talk about Somalia before now you've had some other people talking about it it's a remarkable situation it's a remarkable situation America's a direct involvement and long-running involvement in what is now regarded as the worst humanitarian disaster in the world today you've got tens of thousands killed you've got millions dispossessed in Somalia it's a very we've funded the Ethiopian army that invaded Somalia along with the favored CIA warlords some of them directly in the bay of the CIA and they've essentially used Ethiopia as a proxy army to carry out the same sort of regime change that we've seen in Iraq with the same sort of results a completely ineffective central government installed at the point of foreign guns radicalizing the population and it was already crumbling to a state of complete ruin it's just unconscionable it's almost unspeakable and we America took part in it not only trained and funded Ethiopia we used bombing runs in the initial attacks we bombed refugees we bombed herdsmen we captured refugees and renditioned them back to Ethiopia where they have been we used death squads we sent in death squads to mop up after our covert operations and this was openly admitted we had a certain unit I don't have the unit in front of me right now a certain unit would come in after these airstrikes or missile strikes at alleged terrorists and we know how much collateral damage gets done on these to clean up afterwards that's what they call it cleaning up afterwards it's a mop up operation but as you said no one talks about this none of the candidates have any position on it even Barack Obama whose own father was a black African Muslim like the ones being killed in Somalia has nothing to do with this and it goes on and on and it's a deep stain on our national honor if there's any room for any more stains on there yeah well you know I guess that's the thing with stains you can kind of pile them on top of each other there's another one coming from Sudan or you know some East German roundup or something and he proclaimed never again and cited the Sudan so you know you might as well sign your kids up now it's on man this terror war is going to be spread all across you know Muslim northern Africa well you know the possible targets for some sort of action in this war on terror 50 or 60 nations were you know possible targets so I suppose these were supposed to be nations where some terrorist activity was being someone was talking about it
and condemning two of the ministers down there as being narco terrorists as you well know it's accepted doctrine now not only by the Bush administration but by all American leaders now is that if someone is a terrorist or involved in a terrorist organization then you can launch a military by our own logic and these are just a few of the countries you know as you say there is no end to it and it's a bleak time I must say yeah alright now Pakistan is probably the biggest worry in the world although I don't know that it gets all the proper attention that it deserves probably for a lack of people who you know have a great collection of articles all about Pakistan and how they're talking about we're going to have to retaliate we can't just keep doing this our whole country is going to fall apart from the inside if we continue to let you attack inside our country like this and Bush continues to give the military permission to strike as you say he's already given the green light for ground troops to go into Pakistan which is the exact same way that the Vietnam War began with special forces and covert operations going into a country like that but I mean it boggles the mind of course the Pakistanis are going to have to retaliate in some way to attack I don't know gun dealers who are selling guns to the gangs down there you guys are supplying our gangs down here we're going to launch an air raid on Tucson what would they do about that what would the United States do with incursions around our border and so if you just said oh well guess we just let the Mexicans attack us anytime we want to what can we do but again we have another situation where the United States is allowed to do anything it wants to where other countries cannot react in the same way so we just keep saying this over and over again but we just keep walking into these disasters and I don't know if the search is working be quiet the search is
is pretty much effectively over you know they've walled it off into these ghettoes of ethnic and sectarian sections and that's why the violence has reduced because they've killed so many people and the different factions have got what they wanted alright well thanks so much for your time on the show today chris alright thank you
