Alright y'all, it's Antiwar Radio and Chaos 92.7 FM in Austin, Texas, and our guest today is Bruce K. Gagnon.
He is Senior Fellow at the Nuclear Policy Research Institute and Coordinator of the Global Network Against Weapons and Nuclear Power in Space.
He's the author of the book Come Together Now, Organizing Stories from a Fading Empire, and is behind the movie Arsenal of Hypocrisy, the Space Program and the Military-Industrial Complex.
You can read his blog at Space4Peace.blogspot.com.
Welcome to the show, Bruce.
Yeah, great to be with you.
It's good to have you on here.
My friend Kev Hall, I know, is extremely interested in this topic and forwarded me some information about you.
Looks like you're my kind of activist.
Not asking government to do things, but asking them to please stop doing things at all costs or, in fact, demanding it.
And that's good.
On the issue that I think is of extreme importance and yet that is barely ever discussed and most people know nothing about, and that is the current, not future, the current weaponization of space by the United States government.
I guess I'd like to ask you if you know, just kind of in raw numbers, how much money America spends on the space program and how much of that is actually military use versus, I don't know, putting a Ted Turner satellite up there or something?
Well, over the lifetime of Star Wars research and development, which really began right after World War II, we've now wasted $120 billion of American people's money.
Right now, the Missile Defense Agency is getting about $10 billion a year to develop these new technologies to fight war in, from, and through space.
But on top of that, they have many other budgets where money is hidden.
The NRO, the National Reconnaissance Office, is in charge of many of the military satellites.
The NSA that is doing the warrantless wiretapping, they're in charge of a certain number of satellites.
NASA, the Department of Energy, all kinds of different budgets also hide the spending.
So it's about $75 to $100 billion a year is spent on the militarization and weaponization of space at this time.
So virtually everything that's being done up there now is really geared toward what's called dual use.
There might be a satellite up there that is powering cable TV and cell phones and everything else, but the Pentagon is also buying up time on many of these civilian satellites and using the imagery and other information for military use.
So the Pentagon is really trying to essentially take control of all of the space technology.
And what's really important is they're saying that we can't allow other countries to have access to space, that the United States must be able to develop offensive technologies to deny other countries access to space so that we, the U.S., can be the masters of space.
Well, now you're talking about excluding them from putting weapons up there, excluding them from just making sure we have a monopoly on all sorts of satellites?
Excluding them from having the ability to do what we now do, which is to use space technology to coordinate warfare on the Earth.
When the United States launched the Shokanah invasion of Iraq in 2003, in the initial attack, 70% of the weapons that were used against Iraq were directed to their targets by space satellites.
So the United States Pentagon is now saying we've got to deny other countries from being able to use space technology to even fight wars on the Earth below.
I see.
And so this is why Chomsky says in this movie that you made, Arsenal of Hypocrisy, he says it's not even a space race.
There's not even a race at all.
It's just us.
That's right.
That's right.
If people want to watch this video, they can go to our website.
In the menu section, there's a section called Space Videos.
Just click on that Space Video link and you'll see that video plus many other more, many more.
Yeah, and it's at Google Video, too.
You can find it, Arsenal of Hypocrisy.
Really good stuff.
One of the things you mentioned in that movie is Vision for 2020.
And, you know, these Pentagon guys think they're so clever with their funny little titles and acronyms and so forth.
But what is Vision for 2020?
And why am I worried just from the name?
It's a planning document published by the U.S. Space Command in 1997 that called for U.S. to control and dominate space and deny other countries access to space.
And in there they lay out this vision that in the coming period, they say, because of corporate globalization, there's going to be a widening gap between the haves and the have-nots around the world.
Clearly as we see in Iraq today, the United States corporations, American corporations now going to control the oil in Iraq.
They say that the space technology will be used to essentially become the military arm of corporate globalization in the coming period.
So this Vision 2020 really laid out the military link to corporate globalization in the coming period.
That's really interesting that they just come right out and say it that way.
That, well, we're using our government to steal from these people and impoverishing them so much that necessary that we can kill them from space if they try to fight back against us.
Well, it all makes sense when you really put it together.
You know, when you acknowledge that our government is controlled today by the corporations, that we don't have democracy, that we have a corporatocracy or an oligarchy, however you want to really define it.
Or as Mussolini defined the wedding of government and corporations as fascism.
So, you know, the reality is that the military industrial complex, one of the key corporate entities that are controlling our government, really see that it's their tool now.
It's their toy that they can use to expand their control and profits and ability to dominate people around the world, control the diminishing resources like oil and water and control markets, control labor supply around the world.
And all of it will be essentially coordinated and directed by space technology.
Yeah, well, and you talk about also like even in the future of beyond 2020, but the point where, you know, someday they're mining the moon and they're mining Mars and asteroids from the belt and all these things that the plan right now already in the documents is to force the American taxpayer to subsidize the infrastructure for all this up until the point where they can make money and then go ahead and privatize all the profits at our expense.
That's right and that's happening today.
You know, these rovers driving around Mars, we're told that they're there looking for the origins of life.
But in fact, what they're doing is they're mapping and doing soil identification of Mars because they believe there's magnesium and cobalt and uranium on Mars.
And in fact, I read in the Petroleum News magazine a couple years ago that Halliburton Corporation is now working on a drilling mechanism for the mining of Mars.
So the whole infrastructure is being set up now to go out and do this.
And they say the only real obstacle is, of course, to make it cost effective.
The launch technology is still not at the level that it would make it cost effective to mine the sky.
And so that's why they're working on nuclear rockets with reactors for engines in order to make it easier to lift heavy payloads to go out into deep space for eventual mining of the colonies.
And so one of the jobs of the Space Command then, not only is to give the corporations control and domination of the Earth, but the other job of the Space Command is to control the military pathway or the highway between the Earth and the Moon and the Earth and Mars so that when it comes time to actually begin to reap profits from mining the sky, these same corporations, military, industrial complex, aerospace industry, they will control the pathway on and off the planet Earth with the Space Command and they will decide who can go out and extract profits and resources from other planets.
Yeah, and the tax rates on the trade routes as well, I guess.
Wow, yeah, that's really thinking ahead and your world empire is already expanding it to the other planets in the solar system there.
I have to say I'm really excited by the idea of private companies getting into space and I kind of wish that government was forbidden from taking part in any of this and let Halliburton mine Mars.
That sounds great to me just as long as their investors are the ones who cough up the money.
Well that's not the way it is.
The way it is is that you, the taxpayer, are paying for all the research and development, the infrastructure being laid, and again when it comes time that they're going to turn profit, you who essentially was an investor, an unwilling and unknowing investor, you're going to get nothing for your return.
That is not fair.
So that's what's happening today.
Yeah, well and I really think you're right that the companies whose products are for sale to the government in these kinds of things, the satellite makers, Hughes and Loral, and I forget which all have merged together, Lockheed Martin and all these companies, they push the policy.
They do everything they can to push a policy that gives them access to the U.S. Treasury.
Yeah, and you know that's not a fair fight.
It's not a fair thing when the corporations control all the levers of government, all the instruments of power.
They control the media so the public isn't even aware that these things are going on.
That's not a fair situation.
And so you can't even say that it's a true free market or capitalist situation because it's not.
It's actually socialism for the rich.
The rest of us get free market capitalism if you will, dog eat dog, but for the rich it's socialism all the way.
Absolutely.
Did everybody hear that?
That's the key insight I think that everybody keeps missing, but you're absolutely right about that.
I mean, you know, I got no problem with free health care, to be honest with you.
You go in the military.
I was in the military for four years during the Vietnam War and they had free health care, socialized medicine, and I think it was a good thing.
Everybody should have access to health care.
Everybody should have access to free public education, but that's not the way it works in America anymore.
We only have socialism for the wealthy.
Yeah, well I'll disagree with you on that, but I will agree with you that what we do have is socialism for the people who've already made it at the expense of the rest of us.
There's certainly no doubt about that.
Let's go back to the history of this because I like how in this movie you talk about how not just Wernher von Braun, but actually a whole, I don't know, ship full of Nazis or something, maybe more, were brought into the United States at the end of World War II and created not just the American space program, but took all sorts of different jobs in government, didn't they?
That's right.
It was called Operation Paperclip.
About 1,500 of Hitler's top scientists, military intelligence people were smuggled into the United States through Boston and West Palm Beach under this program, Operation Paperclip.
A hundred of them were the Nazi rocket team to create the U.S. space program, Wernher von Braun and his crew, but then there were the Nazi intelligence that were brought in to create the CIA.
There were the former Nazi scientists that were doing mind control experiments on the Jews and others.
They were brought to the U.S. They did the famous LSD drug experiments and the MK-Ultra mind control experiments of the 1960s when people were jumping out of windows because of bad trips from LSD and stuff like that.
The Nazi scientists that were taking Jews and putting them in freezing temperatures were brought to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio to create the Air Force Flight Medicine Program.
The entire military industrial complex of the United States was seeded with these top Nazi operatives.
My question has always been, when you do that, is there an ideological contamination of the military industrial complex?
It's interesting that just a few years ago, a reporter from a very mainstream aerospace industry publication called Jane's Defense Weekly wrote a book about this whole thing.
He did an investigation of the Pentagon's black budget, their secret budget, and he traced it back to find out where did the architecture, where did the idea of this secret black military budget come from?
What he discovered was that it was from the Nazis.
The Nazis used that to do their high-tech space and other kind of technology development programs, underground, secret.
They really planted that inside of the military industrial complex here.
Today, we have about more than $30 billion a year being spent with the Pentagon, high-tech, a lot of space technology, secret.
The Congress of the United States is not even allowed to know how that money is spent.
We've really, in many ways, taken on the apparatus, if you will, of the Nazi regime.
I would say also the ideological part of it as well, as we today now have become an empire that Hitler would have admired.
It's interesting.
Alfred McCoy, the author of The Politics of Heroin, also did a book called A Question of Torture, where he traced back the American torture techniques directly to the Nazis, as you mentioned, the MKUltra experiments and so forth.
This is exactly what they did to Jose Padilla, the drugs, the sensory deprivation, and all these things to deliberately drive him crazy.
That's basically what they learned from the Nazis.
It's a straight line.
Again, this is a story that most American people don't know anything about.
If you go to our website, which is spaceforpeace.org, go to our menu, click on Space Videos, and you'll see the full video called Arsenal of Hypocrisy there.
Again, that's the number for space, the number for peace.org.
One thing you mentioned earlier was when you talked about, well, the NASA space budget is just one little part of it, the National Reconnaissance Office and the NSA have their own budgets and so forth.
You mentioned the warrantless wiretapping.
Is that going on from space?
I remember seeing something probably, I guess, back in the 1990s where they showed this satellite with this gigantic antenna that they said was longer than a football field.
Its purpose was to scoop up all sorts of electronic communications.
Is that how they're tapping our phones from outer space?
Yeah, it's all space technology.
They have what are called downlink listening stations.
The U.S., the Pentagon does.
It's all run out of STRATCOM Strategic Command in Omaha, Nebraska at Offutt Air Force Base.
They're in charge of basically everything today.
They're in charge of U.S. nuclear weapons.
They're in charge of Star Wars.
They're in charge of first strike attack.
They're in charge of the NSA wiretapping operation.
They're in charge of preparation for attack on Iran now.
They have these stations around the planet, England, Germany, Australia, other countries where the United States is intercepting all phone, fax, and email communications via space technology.
Then they send it back in real time, split second time.
Again, by satellite, they bounce it back to Buckley Field just outside of Denver, Colorado where it's then processed.
Interesting stuff.
You also talk about when you mentioned STRATCOM on your blog where you talked about this conference that you all held about it.
You talk about this thing that they call the Unified Command, one of the new expanded aspects of STRATCOM's responsibilities.
This includes working with the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, various federal police forces.
In what way?
Basically, they're taking over.
They've become the government, if you will.
STRATCOM has essentially become the government, the military dictatorship.
They're in charge now of all preparation for suspending civil liberties, for taking control of the country, fighting wars around the world.
They're unifying all these different commands under STRATCOM essentially and giving them the power to really wage war without the intervention of the Congress.
One of the jobs of STRATCOM is to be able to attack another part of the world in one hour.
In fact, they're war gaming now a first strike attack on China set in the year of 2016.
You can't do that kind of thing and have the American people through the Congress involved in the decision making process.
By unifying command, centralizing control, centralizing authority, they're now giving the military dictatorship that we live under today the ability to go and attack anywhere on the earth at any time they wish to suspend the Constitution here at home and everything else.
It's all being set up, lined up, and ultimately runs out of STRATCOM in Omaha, Nebraska.
Well, now if there was a situation where they could get away with saying that there's such a threat that Americans have to give up their civilian authority to soldiers and so forth, I guess it would be something like a war against China.
In what possible scenario would America have a war against China, I guess, if they attack Taiwan is the premise, huh?
Well, no.
Actually, it's about resources.
China is a major competitor for oil, for example, now around the earth.
There's some people in the Pentagon who are saying we'll be fighting Africa in 20 years now because the competition for Nigeria and other African countries' oil is growing as China is developing relationships with them.
So the United States at some point in the next 20 years, they say, will be going in and fighting for that oil.
That's why the Pentagon has just created a new command called Africa Command or AFRICOM in order to begin to build for that day.
The idea now is that the United States is encircling China.
If you look at their inland border, you find our six new bases in Afghanistan right on China's border.
And then if you look at their coastal region, we're now doubling our military presence throughout the Asian Pacific, bumping up onto the coast of China.
We're deploying so-called missile defense systems on Aegis, naval Aegis destroyers that are made where I live in Bath, Maine.
These would be part of a U.S. first strike.
China has 20 nuclear missiles that are capable of hitting the west coast of the United States today.
And so in a first strike, you take out some number of them.
China gets off a couple in a retaliatory strike.
And so you have those Aegis destroyers parked on their, right off their coast.
And their job is to take them out in the response.
At the same time, the airborne laser, a converted Boeing 747 with a laser beam on its nose, is being developed to assist in that program.
Its job would be to fire a laser and hit any of these missiles that, again, China tried to get off in a launch.
China imports about 70 or 80 percent of its oil through the Taiwan Straits.
And the United States strategy now is to choke off their importation of oil so that we essentially can dictate terms to them.
You're either going to do this or that.
You're either going to let us control your economy or not.
And so this is why China has for a long time been mobilizing to deal with this, with the whole Taiwan Strait, the whole Taiwan issue, because they know that the United States is planning to militarize Taiwan and the entire Taiwan Straits with its naval presence.
So China is in a very reactive position today as a result of this.
And so this is why the U.S. is working on these abilities to wage a first strike attack on China.
Well, you know, there's a guy who keeps posting up in the comments section at antiwar.com slash radio where we post all the archives of these interviews.
And he says, listen, the importance here that everybody's missing is that whether we're talking about China or Russia or anybody else, when the United States has them surrounded in such a fashion that we can credibly launch a first strike, get almost all their missiles, shoot down the last few that survive, then at that point they, the Chinese, the Russians, have to adjust their strategy so that now rather than launch on we're absolutely sure, now they're going to have to turn the dial to launch on warning as soon as there's even the slightest possibility of an incoming attack from the United States.
They'll have to, they will think, they'll have no choice but to go ahead and launch full retaliation before it's too late.
Well, that's where the Russians are today, basically.
They're on that kind of launch on warning status as we begin surrounding them with the assistance of NATO, an alliance You say they've already turned that dial then?
Oh yeah, long ago they did.
I didn't realize that.
And one of the problems is you then leave everything to the discretion of satellite technology because when you're on launch on warning that means you've taken the human element out of it and you leave everything to computers to make those decisions, which is extremely, extremely dangerous.
Well, and you know what they say too about military intelligence, that it's like jumbo shrimp and there's no such thing.
And these are people who are notoriously unable to weigh the consequences of their actions.
I could see them, you know, taking out as many Russian satellites as they could in a situation where that's actually the most important thing is that the Russians still have access to their satellites so that they know what our true intentions are.
Right now the Russians look at their border, their western border, and what they see is NATO beginning this major, major encirclement of them.
The U.S. has recently built bases in Romania and Bulgaria.
NATO is now expanding into Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia right on Russia's border.
The United States is now moving to deploy so-called missile defense systems, interceptors, and radars in Poland and the Czech Republic.
And so Russia really can see the writing on the wall and why does the United States want to encircle Russia?
Why do we want to surround Russia?
Well, could it be because they're the world's largest producer of natural gas?
And, you know, the RAND Corporation recently has been working on a plan to break Russia into three separate countries.
So imagine how Russia is responding to that kind of news.
Oh, well, I'll have to get the link to that.
I'm actually under the impression that it's going to be virtually impossible for the Russian Federation to stay together for the next hundred years or so anyway.
But I did not realize there was a deliberate American plan to push them that way.
Again, it's all about resource control in the coming period.
The Pentagon is saying that under corporate globalization of the world economy, every country is going to have a different role, right?
China is going to make things.
India is going to do certain things.
Indonesia is going to do certain things.
China is going to make cars.
You know, we're not going to make cars in America anymore.
We're not going to make our shoes or clothes or our refrigerators or anything.
We're not really going to have an industrial policy anymore except for weapons.
But the Pentagon says that our role under corporate globalization will be security export.
And as I define those words, security export, what I come up with is endless war.
And they say that we won't really need a draft, you know, because we have an economic draft today.
Young people will have no other choice.
Working class and poor kids, I'm talking about, than to go into the military because there's not going to be any other jobs outside of McDonald's in their community.
And how many people can work there?
Flippin' burgers.
So this is what they're really setting up.
And so the job then of the military under this corporate globalization then will be, again, to go out and secure the world to the benefit of the multinational corporations.
Yeah, this is all so foreseeable.
I mean, the entire controversy about Donald Rumsfeld and the transformation of the DOD to this new light and fast this and that.
I mean, it's pretty clear the premise is we're going to go in to other people's countries, kill a bunch of them, change their regime, install some puppets, and then leave and go on to the next spot.
Maybe leave some UN peacekeepers in our wake or something like that.
Not that that works.
As we can see in Somalia right now, that doesn't come close to the reality of the situation.
But it's pretty clear what they mean by that policy.
Yeah, that's right.
You know, it's funny too, in that movie, the way you talk about the theater missile defense in Japan and the Aegean cruisers and so forth.
Basically, Japan is airstripped one, just like Oceania in 1984, where Japan, basically that becomes its role in the world.
It's the launching pad for American forces into Asia.
That's right.
They call it our unsinkable aircraft carrier.
Right, right.
And you know, I remember when I read 1984 in high school, at first I didn't get that.
Why is England renamed airstripped one?
Oh, it's the forward operating base of the American empire.
That's all it is.
That's right.
And it still is.
And now that empire is growing and the number of posts that become the forward operating posts, you know, bases, are growing.
And people are reacting to that around the world.
That's the positive in all of this, is that there's a growing movement of activists and people around the world that are saying, we don't want you in our country.
We don't want our country to be used as a base for this American empire.
And so the No Bases campaign is really growing around the world as people are getting absolutely fed up with the realities of this American empire.
Yep.
All right.
Now, last ten minutes, two more issues, really, which I guess they can sort of be combined into one.
First, I want to know all about airborne lasers and rods from God and the, well, the Death Stars, basically the idea here, right, that the American military will have permanent satellites up in space where they can kill an individual anywhere in the world on a moment's notice.
Some guy will be sitting with a PlayStation joystick underground somewhere in Colorado or Nebraska or something, and we'll have carbon rods falling out of the sky and blowing us to smithereens.
Is that basically where we're headed?
Well, in fact, it's happening today, if you think about it.
Think of the unmanned aerial vehicles, these pilotless planes flying over Afghanistan and Iraq.
Some of them are outfitted with weapons, bombs and missiles and things like that.
Others just with spy cameras.
Their job is to do exactly what you just said.
A guy sitting back at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, sitting at a computer screen with his joystick, literally flying that unmanned aerial vehicle over Iraq or Afghanistan today.
They see some people on the ground.
Is it Taliban?
Is it Al-Qaeda?
Is it a wedding?
And then they fire.
We've heard many, many stories now how innocent civilians are being killed, but this is what's now possible today.
The next steps are clearly new technologies.
Rods from God would be these orbiting battle stations outfitted with tungsten steel rods, and they would fire them from space, picking up speed as they drop through Earth gravity and hitting targets on the Earth below.
The Death Star is orbiting lasers, orbiting battle stations.
They dream of a constellation of 25 to 40 of these orbiting the Earth and knocking out other countries' satellites, giving the United States control and domination of space, and then hitting targets on the Earth below.
How would you power these?
The problem is when you fire a laser through space, it requires tremendous amount of energy.
How would you resupply this thing?
You wouldn't have a gas station up there that you could hook up to.
So they say nuclear reactors would be the only way to do it.
Imagine a constellation of these reactors orbiting the Earth, engaging in warfare, and then ultimately tumbling back to Earth as they inevitably do, burning up on reentry and spreading their deadly plutonium or uranium globally.
So this is the madness that's going on today with our tax dollars under our name by these scientists that we've all been taught are brilliant and geniuses, and they're so much smarter than we are, and we really need to leave everything to them and let them work quietly away doing what they're doing.
I say that the time has come for us to intervene and take our country back because they're going to kill us at the rate they're going.
The fact that they're real smart and graduated with lots of initials after their name or whatever, that's one thing.
But if the incentive structure is such that the people doing the inventing of these horrible weapons never have to bear the costs or the consequences personally, then they're going to go right on doing things that are not in the interest really of anybody.
Yep, that's right.
Wow, yeah, so that kind of wakes me up.
These guys, a network you say of satellites in space where they can just blast lasers like that, show real genius, and just get any one of us whenever they feel like.
Well I think that's the long-term goal, but as much as they'd like to take out individuals right now, I think their main goal right now is to take out countries and militaries.
Although it can be said that they are doing what you're saying now, because if you look at Israel, Israel does it a lot.
When there's a Palestinian that they want to take out, they use these UAVs now, these Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, to oftentimes take out individual Palestinians in their homes.
So it is in fact, in a way, already being done.
Yeah, well, and we see also their emphasis on the decapitation strike, that their attempt at Dohar Farms and other places in Iraq to kill Saddam Hussein at the very beginning of the war, under their assumption, I guess, that if you kill the President, then everybody else will stop fighting.
Which, as we've seen over the last few years, is not quite the case, but it still seems like that's a big part of their strategy, right?
The decapitation, to cut the head off the snake, as they said about David Koresh.
You know, one of the things that we've got to begin to really do more of is offer an alternative vision to all of this insanity and madness.
And for me, it's clearly calling for the conversion of the military-industrial complex, using our tax dollars instead of continually building for this endless war to benefit the multinational corporations, using it instead to fund the creation of a new industrial policy, a sustainable industrial policy, creating a solar society, a rail system connecting every corner of America, getting us out of our expensive and polluting cars, and putting us in the rail systems that are much gentler and kinder on the earth.
And imagine the jobs created doing all these things, building windmills and everything else.
You know, research is showing that if we took the money we spent in Iraq last year, where we're spending $12 billion a month, if we spent the money that we spent in Iraq in 2007, took that money and invested it in these kinds of things in America, we would have created a million more jobs in this country than we have today.
And this is the time that American people are worried and thinking and talking about jobs, fearful about their future because the corporations are moving jobs out of this country because they want to go maximize profits internationally.
So the peace movement and the environmental movement and the labor movement really need to start working together and call for the conversion of the military-industrial complex.
The environmental groups have it half right.
They're saying we need to build solar and rail and wind, but they haven't come up with a funding source.
If they think that the corporations are going to just do this out of the kindness of our heart, I got news for you.
And in fact, if they think the government is going to be able to pay for it, it doesn't have the money right now because of our huge debt.
But there is a funding source available, and it's the military-industrial complex.
But the American people need to take it on.
The environmental community needs to take that on.
The labor movement needs to take that on and become allies with the peace movement in calling for this conversion plan.
Well, I'm not sure on the specifics of how you mean the conversion, but most of that actually sounds like something a libertarian can get on board for, at least in the sense of if they weren't spending all this money on the war and taking it out of the productive economy, the American people would have invested the money in ways that would have probably made a lot more sense, since it would have been their own money at risk and so forth.
And who knows where we'd be with windmills or this or that alternative source of power.
When I look at government looking for alternative sources of power, you have them just create a global food crisis with their corn subsidies and so forth.
I don't trust them to intervene in a proper way, but you're damn right that there's a hell of a lot of wealth that's basically just been blasted off into space over the last six, seven years.
That's right.
Spent killing people, actually.
Not just blasted off into space, but spent on bombs to then destroy the property that they land on, too.
Libertarians and people like me that are non-libertarians, we don't always have to agree on every single issue to be able to work together.
There are strategic reasons why we should be working together.
I think what you just said really lays out one reality of that.
Oftentimes we are pitted against one another by the power structure that wants to keep all of us separate from each other.
We've got to begin to find ways to come together on issues that really make sense and where we each can find some harmony and work together to make these things happen and end this reality in American politics where we're fragmented and broken apart from each other because it is in that fragmentation that the power structure stays in control.
Well said.
All right, everybody.
That's Bruce K. Gagnon.
He's at SpaceForPeace.org.
That's the number for SpaceForPeace.org and SpaceForPeace.blogspot.com, Senior Fellow at the Nuclear Policy Research Institute and Coordinator of the Global Network Against Weapons and Nuclear Power in Space.
Please also, when you go to SpaceForPeace.org, click on Space Videos and watch Arsenal of Hypocrisy, the space program and the military industrial complex.
Really great stuff.
Thanks very much for your time today, Bruce.
Thank you.
Thank you.
