Alright y'all welcome back to the show It's anti-war radio I'm Scott Horton, and I'm happy to welcome Ahmed al-assi back to the show.
He's an Egyptian American living in Cairo part of the revolution movement over there and Now I find out he is the coalition coordinator of the Egyptian international coalition for lifting the siege and Rebuilding Gaza welcome back to the show Ahmed.
How are you doing?
Good, how you doing Scott?
I'm doing great.
I didn't realize you had such a great title to say out loud like that All right, good deal.
Well, so listen, I wanted to hear all about the Gaza Strip We spend at least the entire last segment on that if you want to talk about all those politics But right now I want to know about the arrest of Hosni Mubarak and the abolition of his political party such as it was And all of these things is this true?
What does it mean?
Is he going to jail?
What's going to happen?
What about his sons?
These are great questions.
Okay, let me start off with his arrest and basically the Attorney General issued a arrest warrant for both Hosni Mubarak and his family and specifically his two sons Gamal and Alaa Mubarak and Apparently during questioning Mubarak was He Apparently had a heart condition and they didn't go into any further details and was admitted into the hospital And he's currently in a hospital in Sharm el-Sheikh and of course that only came after The Friday before last roughly about two weeks ago The people were quite restless.
There were major Protests and in Tahrir Square and they basically had a people trial of Mubarak which they were basically accusing him of Not accusing but I mean basically having a public trial without him there a mock trial if you will and Afterwards you know, they Basically threatened to stay there for a while.
Just like Before he was released and they were saying that it All that's happening is, you know, it's being too slow and this only this came After I believe it also Hosni Mubarak released on Al Arabiya news network, which is a Saudi owned television station and That Mubarak released an audio tape Right after that after people protested in Tahrir and he was saying that he's completely innocent and he's never done anything wrong and that he will sue people who actually accused him of that and of course that That was just like, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back So he was taken in for questioning, which is technically he was issued The arrest warrant was for 15 days of imprisonment Until they they questioned him and this is for like money laundering and other Illegitimate Monetary gains, but you know, I read I read him.
I had that a judge had said I'm not certain if he if the judge had ruled but he had said that Mubarak was responsible for the protesters who were shot by the security services Back then Do you think there's actually going to be a real trial a real prison term for Hosni Mubarak here that he is actually facing justice Well, this is what I was going to get to There's there are two different things going on in conjunction to one another here and according to Egyptian law, the Attorney General has the right to Imprison people for up to 15 days 15 days terms up to 60 Renewable to up to 60 days so that he could question them before trial and Currently, they're still within the first 15 days and both his sons are being questioned in addition to that there's a fact-finding committee around the incident the so-called camel incident that happens in Tahir Square and The snipers that were basically taking people out Protesters in the middle of Tahir Square and this fact-finding committee has been Deliberating for the past two months and They have Concluded I believe yesterday that Mubarak was definitely responsible This is after questioning, you know all kinds of people including the ex head of intelligence almost to the man who was also the ex-VP of Mubarak and They questioned him and of course, he denied all charges against Mubarak But the fact-finding committee did conclude in the end that Mubarak was responsible so this should be used in is Is civil lawsuit or the or an end criminal lawsuit that will be Directed towards him, but he is currently by the way Not under arrest.
He is in the hospital in Sharm el-Sheikh and what was You know I think that the thing that really got the army to move and you and the Attorney General Was that a lot of people were saying if he doesn't get arrested we're gonna get 1,800 buses fill him up with people and head over, you know, take the Show on the road if you go and go bring him to justice and I think after that was declared They arrested him and he's he's currently You know, it's a pseudo it's a very strange sort of thing where You know, technically he's under arrest But he is in the hospital.
So he's limited We we don't have that much more information So is it possible that he might be holding, you know?
Held responsible for all this stuff.
I think it's very probable And a lot of people feel that it is you know a Necessity to hold him responsible and everyone else that was responsible for the death In addition to that a very big thing is that you know, there's an estimated 70 billion US dollars that he has You know as his personal and the Mubarak family as their own personal money, which obviously that's like ill-gained Money that belongs to the Egyptian people and I believe the Attorney General had requested for a lot more of the Banks international banks to sort of freeze his account his international accounts and they have refused and Claimed that there needs to be more evidence Which I mean His salary was like less than $40,000 I believe annually.
So I mean, I don't see how you could you know Make 70 billion and that's just by the way the banks that would say How much they have?
It's not including, you know, Switzerland's top two banks who refused to actually Reveal the amount that they hold over there.
Oh Yeah, well, I would expect the banks all to try to keep the money for themselves rather than you know Give it to the Treasury of Egypt or to the Egyptian people or anything like that.
But so here's the thing though I mean, that's more or less.
I'm pretty sure that's the coolest thing I ever heard the people said we will go and get Mubarak and try him Ourselves and that's what forced the military to go ahead and arrest him I mean, that's people power in action right there.
You guys seem to have learned your lesson that you can do it We'll be right back after this All right, y'all welcome back to the show It's anti-war radio I'm Scott Horton and on the line is Ahmed.
I lost.
He's an Egyptian American living in Cairo and I Know well before we get to Gaza I'll read that proper title.
I got here now about well, here it is.
He's a coalition coordinator for the Egyptian International Coalition for lifting the siege and rebuilding Gaza and We'll talk all about that.
But I wanted to Let you respond basically to my point about you know, holy moly you guys really seem to think that you can get together by the millions and Demand that the military give in to your every will even if that means arresting the former dictator And it seems like you're pretty hopeful that there will actually be some comeuppance for this old guy Yeah, I think there is there's a pretty good chance that a You know, he's held responsible not just him But the rest of his cronies are held responsible for what they have done Whether it's uh, you know starting from the January January 25th revolution or from before that you know My dark imagination says now the CIA's running wild all over that place and they're gonna make sure that whatever happens next is horrible Well, I mean surely there are a lot of Secondary Plans that they have and And I think a lot of the like for example Dr. Barat a who's supposedly one of the people that are Set to go in place of him I and a manure and these people who are supposedly going to take over I mean, but I they used to work for used to head up something called the crisis group, which is a George Soros organization Which I mean would be like no difference.
It's just like a new face to the same sort of Dictatorial Regime and we definitely do not want that.
I think for the majority of Egyptians they they sort of see that they see that this is another attempt at hijacking the people's uprising and We we want a democracy we want to be able to voice our Opinion we want to be heard and and this should be the this is the will of the people and I think more and more every day We're learning how to achieve better results faster and more powerful with less Problems and and you know, thank God that the army is for the most part Receptive to the will of the people and and and Implementing what the people want is they're a little bit slow But they're coming around and I think a great deal of why they're actually Doing exactly what we're asking is because we're in a non-passive way we're we're Requesting real change genuine change and not superficial change and That like you said the NDP party, which is the National Democratic Party of hosting water was just sort of they tried to give it several facelifts and In the end it just did not work people were like this has to go and all of their headquarters because they had headquarters in every small government or you know state and city and And that was like, you know state-owned Property that they used to you know, quote-unquote rent for like, you know pennies every month and That that that it would misuse of public money and that's like, you know putting it politely So all of those Everything that you know, the party's been disbanded and everything has been confiscated and sort of taken back by the government because for the most part these were publicly owned buildings that belong to the people at one point and They're just regaining that back and The cousin of the late president on water for that his name is Pala sorry, not the cousin the nephew of the late president on water for that had tried to basically You know refurbish the party and take it over again.
He had some popularity and Basically, he was very upset with the judges decision to this planet and He Vowed to sort of bring it back under a new name and call it the new Democratic Party Which is but you're saying that did not go off though that people saw right through that and it really has been abolished now Yes, it has but he about to create a new party and basically He and this is like I think almost a direct quote He said that he would get the best the quote-unquote best of The old NDP and we all know that every single one of these people were corrupt, you know well, let's hope that the the masses there can Maintain their confidence and their ability to continue to say no to this kind of thing I think what's happened there so far It's just been absolutely remarkable and I got to give you a chance to talk about your meeting with the new foreign minister Who I I believe you told me before on the show that he was a former Transportation minister guy something like that and and after two or three tries of putting different people in there the the the masses in Tahir Square said absolutely not two or three times in a row until they Told you guys got this guy.
He said he seemed like he might be promising and now you've had a meeting with him as a Coordinator of this Egyptian international coalition for lifting the siege and rebuilding Gaza So tell me all about that and how hopeful you are about the future of Egyptian relations with the Gaza Strip Well, first I would just like to make a slight correction.
It's the The person that you're referring to that was the former transportation minister is the prime minister the current prime minister Shut up.
Oh, I'm sorry Dr. Nabil a lot of you who is the current Egyptian foreign minister used to actually be a former UN delegate Of Egypt and you told me about the two of them at the same time and I got their story And you from all of dr.
Nabil Arabi's You Know he was saying this stuff.
He was quite vocal about his stance on on the Gaza blockade and he was In an article published in the 19th on the 19th of February He basically said the same things we've been saying for a long time.
And that is that it is an inhumane unjust Blockade that needs to end as soon as possible.
And the article was titled.
It is time for major change in Egypt's foreign policy and In the article, he basically outlined the fact that you know, if Egypt Specifically the scaff which is the Supreme Council of Armed Forces Who currently rules Egypt?
If you know in their second declaration, they basically said that they are going to keep all of Egypt's Agreements with all of the regional and international agreements that they have entered and in line with that spirit We should also honor international agreements and laws For you know human rights and it you know for even in times of war You cannot close your borders to humanitarian aid and And that is basically what he said in his his article So based upon that we felt that he was approachable and we approached him.
We asked him for permission to let in some good into the Rafah border crossing and We just got to meet with him on Sunday where he actually gave us What was deemed as a political Permission from him when he approved it and he said that he's willing to let in important aid into Gaza and at the same time he told us that Basically things are changing and they are currently working on opening up the Rafah border, which is a shared border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt and it is the only border that is directly open to the Gaza Strip and Egypt.
You have two other border crossings and that's al-jah and Karam Abu Salam and these two are basically manned by Egypt and the PA and Israel and basically the The whole point is that all humanitarian aid used to actually funnel through these two other border crossings and From what we hear from a lot of the people inside is that it never really made it to Gaza It would go to the West Bank or it would it would be stolen a lot of it so a very limited amount of the aid that would actually make it into the border would actually make it into Gaza and Our request was to have the border open directly from Gaza to to Egypt and that is basically the the former foreign minister used to use excuses such as the 2005 border agreement, which was actually Egypt is not even a signatory on that agreement and it was just a very lame excuse to have been using and What needs to be done now is like new agreements so within the past basically the past month Dr. Arabi's been meeting with various Palestinian factions and trying to have Reconciliation talks between Fatah and Hamas as well as I believe working towards Opening up the border permanently because right now it is opened up on a temporary basis a few key points, I wanted to just emphasize is that in the 2005 agreement it was between the EU Israel and the the PA Palestinian Authority and Egypt was not a signatory to that.
So basically they're not Egypt is not bound to Any anything that is in that agreement, however, though there was a previous border agreement between the PA and Egypt that basically Stipulated that it would be a Personnel crossing only rather than to be used for good and people And what we're trying to do is to have it be for goods and personnel specifically commercial trade because I think it's a very important and that the Egypt would open up with direct commercial trade with Gaza because it would aid in the you know rebuilding of Gaza and at the same time it would be good for Egyptian economy and currently, there is 5.2 billion dollars that are awaiting For Rebuilding Gaza some of that is USAID money some of that has been pledged by various governments around the world for rebuilding Gaza and The situation over there is quite dire.
I mean the you have well over You know tens of thousands of families that are living in tents for the past two years You have 5,000 residential units that were completely destroyed and over 50,000 residential units that were partially destroyed some of which we saw personally I mean imagine, you know a family of like, you know, two or three families even of five to six each that are living in an apartment that was meant for really just you know, one family of four and With no wall, I mean that's basically the The situation so it's it's quite desperate.
They really do need building materials over there specifically cement and steel Which they are according to the you know blockade are forbidden items and I think that it's essential for us to push for getting these, you know essential goods to To rebuild Gaza which currently those 5.2 billion dollars are being utilized are not being utilized they're frozen and they They say you cannot use them you know for cement that's going through the tunnels which by the way costs up to three times as much as cement would cost to purchase normally and in addition to that there is a You know, it's quite sad that the only two Factories that have been built and built in the Sinai are to serve You know the criminality of the state of Israel which is to build the wall the cement factory to build the wall the apartheid wall and and the second is the gas company that pumps gas into occupied territories which is actually Resold back to Gaza and to people in the West Bank at outrageous amounts of money and it's like You know, it's unfathomable And by the way, these are some of the things that that a lot of people are also requesting they're saying you know that the gas has been sold to Israel for a fraction of The the cost the international cost and at the same time it's been actually at Less than cost for us You know as Egyptians, it's like it costs more to get the gas out Then and to have the infrastructure and what have you then it does then you're getting paid for it So it's insane so basically Dr.
Shaw who is the prime minister is also currently looking at the gas agreement and you know with the possibility of Renegotiating the price a lot of people are asking for it to be completely cut off or at least, you know be given to Directly to Palestine as opposed to having it go through the middleman and and have the price jacked up so What we're hoping to do within the next couple of days is enter Gaza with also, not you know a huge convoy, but you know a convoy that will sort of test the water and And based on the approval that we got from dr.
Abhi, which by the way, I will Give you a press release on as soon as we actually get in with the stuff Great well so Let me ask you this how?
Central is a change in Egyptian policy toward Gaza and the opening up of that border to the revolution movement in general I mean, I know there's a lot of different factions that helped to overthrow Mubarak don't necessarily see eye-to-eye on everything But it seems hard to imagine that really anybody in Egypt is for this.
It seems like a pretty good litmus test For how much power and influence the people really do have over the government now post Mubarak You know the vast majority of every single Egyptian That I've spoken to at least is definitely against this illegal blockade and would like to see it gone today or even yesterday and That is like, you know Regardless of their, you know political stance or their their religious because I mean you You do have like a lot of different types of people, you know Palestinian people Gaza used to be a part of Egypt, you know, you have a lot of families That are basically split right down the middle, you know, some of them are in Gaza some of them are in Sinai you have It's like your family.
It's like you're basically, you know Blockading your own family.
So I mean it's ridiculous that we've Gone like this for that long and there have been numerous Convoys that have attempted to break the siege from Egypt before but they would usually be stopped at a very early point Usually with some like a ridiculous, you know excuse like you don't have a permit or something like that so I Think it is to answer your question One of the major I mean these were some of the issues that we were discussing in Tahrir before The 11th of February were Hussein Barak stepped down and I think the vast majority of people were like, you know, if he Steps down today.
We will go to Gaza tomorrow So that is I think the general sentiment There might be a few people that say maybe not now is not the time Maybe we should focus on rebuilding Egypt first but the thing is though, I mean I see that it is a very essential thing for every Egyptian to want this To because I mean it's good for our economy And if it's rebuilding that you want to focus on then you can like You know open up the border help them rebuild their side and at the same time You're you're you're gonna be working your factories.
They want to be self-sufficient They don't want to be relying on handouts over there And when I went last time on the 6th, we spoke with a lot of Civil society people just average people.
We're not talking government.
We're not talking about, you know any certain political You know normal everyday people and they were all really you know sick and tired of of the the blockade and they want to be free and They want to be self-sufficient they don't want to rely on these aid convoys and They want to be able to have their factories again, you know, 95% of Gaza factories were destroyed or or not functioning because of the cast-lead attack and the subsequent blockade, so It's like, you know, they have no means of actually doing their stuff and if we open up that border, you know They're going to want textiles.
They're going to want steel cement All of these things are you know, the the the core Egyptian Industry is steel and and cement And textiles to the point where I mean the textile industry here in Egypt is suffering from a lot of the Chinese imports that are coming in flooding the market and they feel that they can't compete well, here's a perfect opportunity for you to distribute your You know your production to you know people that are in need of it who can like make their own stuff and Possibly, you know just be self-sufficient first and maybe even be able to sell and then you can actually make money off of customs as well as far as Egypt is concerned, so It is a very important Key issue for both of us where it's like a win-win situation if you open up the borders right now It's like even residents of the Sinai Peninsula feel that they are sort of not getting their You know a fair treatment like the majority of Egyptians living in around the Delta Which is around the mile and the reason for that is because there hasn't been any sort of change in infrastructure or new factories or new job opportunities and that has been because of this like, you know This policy that the previous administration has had which is criminal and in protection of this criminality of the State of Israel for for you know Blockading the Gaza Strip They were basically doing the same almost the same thing to the people of the Sinai Peninsula Is that like I said, the only two factories that were opened over there were to serve You know more of that Criminal activity so people over there also don't like this anymore, you know, they feel that they've gotten a raw deal and You know things have gotten quite violent over there During the the uprising and I hear even up until right now There's still like, you know last time we were there it was it was still pretty, you know, crazy like police officers are scared To wear their their uniforms over there and they haven't been redeployed and it's just armed and There's a good reason for that because they were Mistreating the people of the Sinai, you know Picking them up and putting them in in jails for yeah now It's not so certain that reinforcements are coming if they get into trouble So now they're the ones right run, huh?
That's good to hear at the lower level of the police are scared of the people to listen.
I'm sorry We're all out of time here and we're waiting Well, I really appreciate your time that you spend on the show all the time it's always very good stuff I learn a lot and I really appreciate it Thanks a lot Scott, all right everybody that's Ahmed Alassi he is an activist over there in Egypt He is the coordinator of the Egyptian International Coalition for lifting the siege and rebuilding Gaza
