I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of Antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and the brand new Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism, and I've recorded more than 5,500 interviews since 2003, almost all on foreign policy, and all available for you at scotthorton.org.
You can sign up for the podcast feed there, and the full interview archive is also available at youtube.com slash scotthortonshow.
All right, you guys, on the line, I've got Hassan El-Tayeb from the Friends Committee on National Legislation.
That's fcnl.org, and they're the Quaker Peace Lobby in Washington, D.C.
Welcome back to the show.
How in the hell are you?
Scott, thanks so much.
I'm doing well.
Getting ready for the Yemen Super Bowl on the House floor tomorrow.
Tomorrow is the big vote, huh?
So tell me all about it.
Who's in the Super Bowl this year?
Okay, well, Rep.
Ro Khanna from California has introduced an amendment to cut off all support to the Saudi-led coalition's war and blockade.
That includes logistical support, intel sharing, spare parts, and maintenance, and all of that's really critical for Saudi operations, including, you know, they've been doing airstrikes even as recently as, you know, late March of this year on the airport.
And it's really causing, you know, and helped driving the world's worst humanitarian crisis and pushed 16 million people to the brink of famine.
And so we have a real unique opportunity here.
I mean, this is the first time this has happened with Democrats in control of the House, Senate, and the White House.
A similar provision actually passed back in the FY 2020 NDAA, and you can remember FY 2021, a similar provision was passed as well.
But they all got stripped out in conference, you know, in large part because of pressure on the Hill, but also because Trump was president at that point.
So this is really, you know, this really important moment where we're going to find out if the Biden administration does want to put a human rights and human rights-based foreign policy first.
Yeah, well, let me ask you this.
What happened?
I thought we already had a deal.
OK, I kind of thought so.
Actually, I did think so.
I think we talked about this and I was convinced at the time that Biden meant it when he said we're calling off all this support.
We're going to help the Saudis shoot down Houthi drones or missiles crossing the border into Saudi, but we're not going to help them wage the war anymore.
And then I guess it was two months later, Admiral Kirby announced that now we're still maintaining their airplanes, at least as far as I know, they've continued every bit of their support.
Certainly, the Navy is still helping to enforce the blockade.
So they really haven't canceled anything.
Was it just they did that PR stunt that relieved a little bit of pressure and then they were able to just change the subject to Afghanistan or something else?
There's a lot to unpack there.
I'll start off by saying that the Biden administration did make several significant changes from the Trump administration.
They lifted the foreign terror organization designation on the Houthis, which would have really cut off humanitarian aid access.
That was really important.
Yeah.
They restored it.
But to be honest, not doing so is a radical position.
So let's just put that out there.
The restoring of all USAID funding to the northern parts of Yemen, where the Houthis are the de facto government.
That was another important piece.
They said that they wanted to support diplomacy.
That was more than we saw Trump do.
We did see an announcement for an end to offensive operations.
Unfortunately, the devil's kind of in the details there.
They never really clarified what that offensive or defensive support even was.
Did that include spare parts maintenance?
Did that include the blockade?
Did that include just airstrikes coming into any drone attacks from the Houthis coming into Saudi territory?
Or were they going to do preemptive attacks on Houthi facilities?
What did it mean for Marib?
And a lot of that wasn't really clear at the time.
And then we did learn that that ongoing spare parts and maintenance was still happening from the Pentagon.
We also learned that the U.S. was going to play a military advising role, and they didn't really clarify exactly what they said defensive purposes.
So unfortunately, we're now seeing the war just drag on and on and on, the blockade drag on and on and on.
So that's why I think it's really critical.
And we've talked about this before, but the spare parts and maintenance of these Saudi warplanes are integral to their ongoing daily operations.
Maybe it's not every single time it lands, but at least nearly every single time one of these F-15s land.
You need the steady flow of spare parts and maintenance from these trained contractors.
And that's something that the U.S. can cut off and should cut off.
And that's exactly what the Khanna Amendment is trying to do.
All right.
So now, you know, wet your finger in the wind kind of thing.
How's the pressure feel right now compared to when he was sworn in and people were saying, now you better live up to your promise, like in your promise, dude.
We have, there are several things going on.
I definitely, I definitely think folks are still on the Hill, at least, and the American public, who on the vast majority, when polled, want us out of the Saudi led war in Yemen.
But right now, Congress is in this key moment.
They're going to have to take this vote on Thursday.
The debates are actually happening today at 330 Eastern, if folks want to tune in to hear what kind of, hear what folks are saying.
Now, we have Chairman Adam Smith is a co-sponsor of the Khanna Amendment to cut off all the support.
That's really good for people that want to end support for the war.
Unfortunately, Chairman Meeks and Chairman Deutsch on the House Foreign Affairs Committee and House Foreign Affairs Middle East Subcommittee, they have not co-sponsored.
They actually put forward their own amendment, which on Yemen, they put forward several, one on Yemen, that also claims that they want to address the crisis in Yemen.
Unfortunately, that amendment is significantly weaker than the Khanna provision, and it's really hard to see how any of that would be enforceable.
We're concerned that that may drain support on the floor of the House.
People might say, well, we don't want to go all the way.
Let's just support the Meeks Amendment.
Our job right now in the advocacy community is to try to push for a yes vote on Khanna unconditionally.
We need to make that happen.
If folks do want to get involved, they can actually use a phone line, the FCNL on Demand Progress Setup, 1-833-STOP-WAR.
Great.
Now, let me ask you this.
I know that there are a couple of good Republicans on this in the Senate, but in the House, do you have any kind of bipartisanship here?
Yeah.
If we look back at the FY 2020 NDAA that did pass, we had 240 votes.
We had Biggs, Buck, Cloud, Davidson, Massey, Mooney, Roy, Schweikert, Upton.
So it was about a dozen or so.
I didn't name them all, but that was a significant chunk.
We're hoping that that coalition of Republicans who do care about war powers and the fact that only Congress can declare war under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, that they stick with us, and hopefully we grab a couple more Republicans on the vote, like Meyer and Mace and others.
So that's the thinking, is that we build on this Republican coalition in the House.
Now, we also have about 17 new freshman Democrats.
And I think getting them to stick with this vote and making sure that they understand the significance of this and the fact that the water is fine.
You know, come on in.
It's already been passed several times.
Let's do it again.
Yeah, absolutely right.
Well, and now you mentioned Meeks.
And who was the other one who were the two of them, I think you said, are sponsoring sort of this watered-down version for other members to hide behind as they vote to continue the war, essentially?
Yeah, so Meeks and Deutch, you know, I think it's really critical, like, in my opinion, it would be, you know, we just need to get the Kana Amendment through.
I'm hoping that they will vote the right way, both Meeks and Deutch.
And they had in the FY 2020 NDAA already.
And they both voted for the Yemen War Powers Resolution.
So not doing so now would be a real departure.
And I think we got to ask, why are they putting forward an amendment that does less than what they've already voted for?
So listen, my excuse is I'm in Austin right now, but why don't you just march on over to their offices and talk to their guys and see about this?
I mean, it's such an obvious ploy.
Oh, here's the weak version, but it sounds the same.
So people can vote for the weak version to undermine the good one.
But yeah, like if we got, I don't know, everybody who listened to this show to all call Meeks and Deutch's office and send them emails and send them telegrams, if people still do that.
I know those pile up in real space time, and that kind of matters some.
But if the phone is ringing off the hook, and people are saying, hey, listen, man, we don't want this watered down thing.
We're looking for the, you know, we demand you support this Kana amendment, whatever.
I mean, that might move the thing.
And if you and your buddies go show up knocking on the door at the office and saying, hey, what is this?
You guys were great on this last year.
Don't make us stop loving you.
You know, then that might help.
Scott, I think that's exactly what we need right now.
This is an all hands on deck moment for people out there that do care about constitutional war authority and the fact that, no, we should not have the executive branch running over Congress and the American people every time they want to support an unauthorized war.
There's something we can do about it.
And I think this is, you know, and if we can't win on Yemen, the world's worst humanitarian crisis, what can we win on, right?
So I think that's critical.
That 1-833-STOP-WAR number I mentioned actually connects you first to your representative asking them to vote yes, and then it patches you into Meeks.
So so that that's a great tool for people to use.
You know, obviously, you know, you could probably find the emails online or or, you know, through their personal house websites.
But but that that call tool, I think, is really helpful if folks do want to take a moment today and try to make a difference on Yemen.
Yeah, absolutely.
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Man, I'm sorry, I wish I had an idea, but I know what we need here is a stunt.
We need somebody with an important name to get on cable news this afternoon.
Or we need, I don't know, some movie star to put out a viral tweet.
Maybe that big boobs rapper lady could say something about it or something.
You know, we need something to move the needle here right now when it really matters.
I agree.
And I know a lot of your listeners are actually in the L.A. area.
That's where all the Hollywood stars are.
I'm hoping I'm hoping one of them can help us.
Yeah.
Well, problem is this show isn't going to air on L.A. radio until Sunday, so that's not going to cut it this week.
And you know what?
I don't even really know anybody at my own radio station out there to put you in touch with.
You know, I guess I sort of kind of do.
I'll see what I'll try to think of something after we're done here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have some buddies, you know, Mark Ruffalo, who are connected with has been fantastic on the Yemen on the Yemen question and in trying to end this unauthorized support and bring an end to the blockade.
I mean, if for a second, I just really would love to tell people about the stakes of this vote and why this matters so much.
I mean, the ongoing blockade that's cutting off the free flow of food, fuel, medicine and clean water.
More more specifically, this year, the Saudis have been blocking, you know, hundreds of thousands of metric tons of fuel from getting into the Red Sea ports.
And that fuel is critical for transporting food, for powering hospitals.
And when you've got the world's worst, you know, one of the world's worst hunger crises, you've got, you know, cholera, you've got covid, you've got children suffering from severe acute malnutrition.
You need those hospitals online.
You need those.
You know, you need food to get into the mouths of millions of Yemeni kids.
And so if we're actively playing a role in supporting these war planes who are, in fact, enforcing the blockade, continuing to do these airstrikes and, you know, diluting people on the hill, diluting the Saudis that they can continue this war with a blank check from the U.S., you know, we're just going to see this thing drag out until, you know, people understand the facts on the ground and really and make, you know, significant policy changes that are in the best interest of not Mohammed bin Salman, but Yemeni people, Yemeni men, women and children who are suffering from this blockade.
You know, I'm really worried, but we have a chance to do something about it, Scott, and I really appreciate you using your platform to highlight this issue.
Well, look, I mean, I don't really know what's going on in the Congo.
I don't follow that one enough.
And I know the Americans are involved.
I interviewed a guy about this a few years ago who told me some crazy stuff, but I just haven't kept up with that one.
But otherwise, I do know about the rest of the wars in Africa, you know, which are all American wars pretty much, and throughout Eurasia.
And I'm fairly certain, spin the globe, that what's happening in Yemen right now, the American war in Yemen, is the worst thing in the world that's going on today.
And I think it's also fair.
And you tell me if you think that this is right, if you know of any other examples that I'm not thinking of or whatever, but I think, you know, and I'm willing to go with the less conservative estimates, too, on sort of the excess death rate in all of the different wars where there's this doctor's organization that put out a thing that estimated as many as two million people have been killed in the wars, not obviously directly by U.S. airstrikes, but in the various civil wars and all the rest.
But that includes Iraq and Syria and Yemen and Somalia and Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, the whole 20 years of war here.
And I'll buy that.
I think it's probably a million just from Iraq War II, right around there.
And so I'll buy that.
But at the same time, I'm going somewhere with this.
I really don't think that they have had a, ever since Iraq War I, I don't think this whole time in this century, that they've had a policy of deliberately destroying the civilian infrastructure, the water, the sewage, the electricity, the markets, trying to really destroy the civilian population.
It's all happened anyway.
They call it collateral damage and they don't give a damn.
So don't get, I'm not apologizing for them.
But I think this one is unique in the 20 years of war where they go, oh, no, we're leading from behind.
It's the Saudi war.
It's somebody else's war.
We're just helping a little.
But in fact, America is the superpower and Saudi is the client state.
They have a policy of deliberately bombing the farms and the markets and the fishermen and the grain silos and the rest of it.
You've all heard me go through this a hundred times.
Martha Mundy has that great study about how they target all the farms and food infrastructure.
They build a cholera hospital because we give them cholera and then they bomb the cholera hospital.
I mean, this is, look, if Iran or Russia or China were in the middle of doing this right now in outer Mongolia or in, you know, Azerbaijan or just make up a thing, this would be the worst thing.
Absolutely.
The top headline in every paper, on every cable TV news show.
This is the greatest emergency on the planet Earth.
The fact that nobody gives a damn about it or talks about it doesn't make that not so.
And I don't know of anything that compares to it.
Yeah.
Well said.
It's tragic and it's absolutely tragic that it's being done at all, but really tragic to know that our tax dollars make us complicit in the world's worst humanitarian crisis.
And we got something to do.
We have a lot of work to do.
We've been, you know, I've been on the show a number of times.
We've been talking about this issue and I call it the Yemen Super Bowl because the dynamics are different now with, you know, there's kind of no excuse.
The Biden administration already said that they support ending offensive operations.
They want to bring this war to a close.
Democrats have all taken this position.
Will they follow through on the promise?
That's the big question.
And we're going to find out tomorrow around four o'clock Eastern.
So, you know, if folks do have the bandwidth and want to make a call, 1-833-STOP-WAR is a great way to make your voice heard.
You know, let Chairman Meeks know that, you know, we need to see the Kana Amendment passed through.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for all your great work on this.
And again, everybody, the website is FCNL.org and the phone number again is 1-833-STOP-WAR.
We're going to put this out, you know, today quickly, I hope, and have enough time to make a little bit of a difference.
And you know what?
Actually, let me ask you one more thing.
I know you got to go, but.
You know, me and my audience, too, we're all a bunch of extremely jaded libertarians.
And I certainly don't believe in democracy.
And I have to tell you, I have a hard time believing that anybody on Capitol Hill gives a damn what me or my audience says if we call them and beg them nicely to do the right thing on a war.
So can you convince me somehow that, no, it really does make a difference, man, or something?
So you're asking a really important question that I think we should unpack over a couple beers at some point.
But I've seen individuals make massive amounts of change on Capitol Hill in surprising ways that you might not expect.
So the passage of the first Yemen War Powers Resolution in 2018, a lot of people thought we were crazy.
Why are you even trying to do this?
There's no point.
And right after that, we saw an end to mid-air refueling by the United States.
We stopped supporting the actual fighter jets that Saudis were using in that particular way.
And we got the sides to agree to the Hodeidah ceasefire.
We forced more votes.
We saw the UAE get their troops out of Yemen.
So we have made a difference with these votes.
It's not everything.
We haven't won the entire World Series, going back to my old metaphor.
We haven't won the Yemen Super Bowl yet as far as ending U.S. complicity.
But we have made a difference.
And I think if we can double down in the next 24 to 48 hours on everything we have done and try to make sure the House of Representatives gets this through, we're going to do something really important for the people of Yemen.
Thank you so much again for your time, Hassan, and for all your great efforts here, bud.
You got it, man.
We'll talk.
Okay, guys.
That's Hassan El-Tayeb, FCNL.org, and 833-STOP-WAR.
I'm going to call him right now.
The Scott Horton Show and Antiwar Radio can be heard on KPFK 90.7 FM in LA, APSradio.com, Antiwar.com, ScottHorton.org, and LibertarianInstitute.org.
