08/07/13 – Jason Leopold – The Scott Horton Show

Hey all, Scott Worden here for the Council for the National Interest at councilforthenationalinterest.org.
Are you sick of the neocons in the Israel lobby pretending as though they've earned some kind of monopoly on foreign policy wisdom in Washington, D.C.?
These peanut clowns who've never been right about anything?
Well, the Council for the National Interest is pushing back, putting America first, and telling the lobby to go take a hike.
The empire's bad enough without the neocons making it all about the interests of a foreign state.
Help CNI promote peace.
Visit their site at councilforthenationalinterest.org and click Donate under About Us at the top of the page.
That's councilforthenationalinterest.org.
All right, y'all, welcome back to The Thing here.
I'm Scott Worden.
I'm running a little bit behind, but that's all right.
Well, we're joined on the phone by our friend Jason Leopold.
He's writing at aljazeera.com now, and that's not the fake one.
The real aljazeera got .com from the fake one finally, I guess, here.
It's been a couple of years now.
Aljazeera.net or .com, they'll both work.
The latest is Al-Qaeda might attack Guantanamo, claims U.S.
And then guess what I learned in here?
The reason that they hate us, it isn't because of all that support for Israel's occupation of Palestine and the bases in Saudi Arabia.
It's because of Jason Leopold and his journalism.
How dare you?
Actually, according to the Justice Department and Joint Task Force Guantanamo, and just to give your listeners a bit of a back story, the lawsuit that attorneys, Guantanamo attorneys, filed against the government, revolving around this new policy pertaining to genital searches to ensure that the prisoners are not bringing any, quote-unquote, contraband into the prison cells or leaving with anything, there was a declaration that was filed by the warden, if you will.
His name is Colonel John Bogdan.
He's the commander of the Joint Detention Group, essentially the warden there.
And that was filed under seal on June 3rd.
And after this case was decided, a U.S. District Court judge more or less, or actually he did, he banned these searches.
He ordered that they should immediately stop.
But I was very interested in this declaration because I wanted to know what the rationale was, why they were justifying it.
Why was it under seal?
So I actually went a step further than I normally do with my Freedom of Information Act request, and I filed as a journalist a motion to intervene in this lawsuit, arguing that this declaration should be unsealed.
And journalists can do that in court cases, arguing for the release of certain records, stating that the public has access or should have access to these records.
So I filed this motion, and last Friday the government responded.
And their response, this is sort of a two-part story, but their response to me was that we need to keep this information secret or Al-Qaeda will attack Guantanamo.
But it's not just Al-Qaeda, Scott.
They actually said enemies foreign and domestic.
I don't know who the domestic enemies would be that would try to attack Guantanamo and free the prisoners there, but that's certainly their argument.
They were saying that this contains information in here in this declaration, contains operational security and force protection procedures that we need to keep quiet.
So what they did instead was they released a redacted version of his declaration.
And they redacted some passages in there that they claimed needed to remain redacted because of what it would reveal, because of the fact that if it was unredacted it would provide this intel to our enemies, foreign and domestic.
But what they, the security reviewers or whoever was working on the case, apparently what they did not realize is that a month earlier they released another version of the same declaration by the Guantanamo commander.
And that version had, for the most part, all of the redactions or did not contain any of the redactions that this version that they released to me contained.
So they already revealed this information.
And it goes to the whole larger issue about over-classification, the process that's in place with regard to the classification process, and how it's really done on a case-by-case basis.
And it depends who's doing it.
So their argument is, we can't give this info to Jason because he'll publish it and our enemies will use it against us.
Oh, by the way, they already released that info.
So that's the basis, that's the plot, if you will, of my latest story.
Yeah, well, good times.
You know, what the hell.
As long as we have another illustration of the ridiculous double standard here.
You know, they're claiming anyway, who knows if it's true, but they're claiming that they're tapping Ayman al-Zawahiri's phone.
Well, talk about treason and leaking a national security secret.
I guess everybody at CNN is going to be, and all their sources are going to be strung...
Oh, I'm sorry, the government told them to put that in the paper on TV.
That's different.
Yeah, you're a traitor for publishing what they handed someone else to publish, but not you.
Yes, another sanctioned leak by the government revolving around this, and it's the same games being played.
And by the way, I should also mention that with my latest story, one of the arguments that they make in here is that Zawahiri, the al-Qaeda leader, they're referencing this July 31st video in which he says that the terror network will spare no effort to free prisoners held at the U.S. military-run detention center in Cuba.
Actually, he's not saying that, that's the Justice Department.
But they're using that, and the prison break in Iraq, where hundreds of al-Qaeda terrorists apparently were escaped, they're using that as a justification to keep this information secret from me.
Yeah, but how do you know there's not an al-Qaeda battle cruiser on its way to Cuba right now?
And who could stop them if there was?
Probably not the U.S. Navy.
You know, it's funny that you mention that, Scott, because I was actually thinking yesterday, this would make for a great follow-up story.
If al-Qaeda wanted to, or forget al-Qaeda, if somebody wanted to attack Cuba, could they?
Or rather, Guantanamo, not Cuba.
And, no.
I think it's ridiculous.
Not even Castro can attack Guantanamo Bay!
There's 3,000 Marines at Guantanamo who would be well-prepared for this.
I mean, it's just ludicrous.
Obviously, we need to respond to this.
But again, this all comes back to what I mentioned at the beginning of the show, which was genital searches, Scott.
That's what they're saying.
We can't reveal certain info as it pertains to the search of the genitals of these prisoners because of al-Qaeda.
And the other argument that they make here is that the Declaration discusses operational security information concerning details about the physical layout of Guantanamo.
And what they do not take into account.
It's sort of as if they ignore what the reality is.
There are satellite images, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of satellite images that I've published about the layout of Guantanamo.
How about the fact that reporters, including me, I have been to Guantanamo, that we've written detailed stories about the prison, the layout, where things are located.
Again, it just comes down to this ludicrous argument that they're making.
Never mind the fact that they've already released this info, as I indicated, in another version.
But for me, I'm trying to get information.
I'm trying to share that with the public.
I'm trying to figure out if any of these allegations pertaining to the fact that this policy was implemented as a way to break the hunger strike, if that's true.
And it's damn near impossible.
We've spoken about this before, but the motto, the tagline for Guantanamo is safe, legal, humane, transparent.
Yeah, and honor bound, too.
Honor bound, yeah.
Integrity was a sign that was out there.
That was the catch word of the week.
The value of the week, rather, when I was there.
To me, this is very interesting.
It was just amazing that the response that they put out there.
It obviously gets to this whole larger issue of fear.
There's fear that's playing out right now with regard to evacuating all these embassies.
Of course, we have to question the timing, revolving around the fact that the NSA, the surveillance programs, are the subject of fierce debate.
That the administration finds themselves under intense pressure by lawmakers, by the public about what they're doing.
And then, whoop, look, we've got this terror alert.
And if you recall, that happened almost weekly during the Bush administration.
Anyone who questioned the programs or the policies that that administration put into place.
If you remember, they had the color-coded terror alert.
Yeah, they'd have an orange alert any time any scandal broke.
In fact, this was written about.
But if people want to look it up on YouTube, Keith Olbermann actually did a great bit about going back over the years.
About the timing of the orange alerts when Abu Ghraib broke.
And every other thing, too.
The plane and whatever trouble they ever got into.
They would always come out with some orange alert to try to scare your mom into stopping paying attention to what they're really up to.
Right, and that's certainly what they're doing now.
And people are responding to it, saying, oh, okay, that's why they need these.
Yeah, it works.
That's why they keep doing it.
It works.
Yes, it does work.
And so, getting back to my story that I published this week.
So, what the Justice Department did was they secured yet another declaration that was again filed under seal by Colonel John Bogdan, the Guantanamo warden.
Explaining why the passages that are redacted need to remain secret.
So, here I go again trying to get now that version unsealed.
So, it's just kind of never-ending.
And it's quite difficult work to continue doing this just to try to get information.
And I was having this conversation with a former Guantanamo guard.
One of the difficulties, if you think about it, is that there are a handful of Guantanamo guards out there that we can speak to to talk about what the experience was like at Guantanamo, what's happening there.
But there isn't anyone who served at Guantanamo in that capacity recently that we've been able to sort of obtain information from.
So, for the most part, the last guard, the last time that they were there was 2006.
Seven years have passed.
What's it like there under Obama?
Yesterday was the six-month anniversary of this hunger strike.
And while the numbers are dwindling, they're still rather high, considering how many prisoners are there.
Well, and you know what?
Here's the thing, too.
And it's even somewhere back in my brain, and I know better, but it's still there, and I know it's there in the audience's mind, too.
These are bad guys, but the truth is that more than half of them, maybe far more than half of them, have been cleared for release.
Yeah, there's Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi bin al-Shibh and al... what's-his-name, the other guy.
There's about five or six real al-Qaeda guys there, and everybody else is just a public relations stunt to make you think there's such a thing as al-Qaeda anymore.
No, that's absolutely true.
I mean, look, the chief prosecutor presiding over the military commissions there, he indicated that they will likely move forward with the prosecution of about, say, 20 people.
And that number dropped over the past year.
I think they originally said high 30s.
But if you think about that, in total, we had 779 prisoners in Guantanamo.
166 now have been there, for the most part, for 11 years.
And out of this, the financial cost to consider as well, we're going to end up prosecuting a total of 30 people.
That's it.
Probably far less than that.
Yeah, and I think that number will continue to go down, but it's true.
I mean, what you said, I constantly have to remind people, at least on the history side, that many of these men who were there, they were sold for bounties.
We dropped leaflets, flyers, in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, urging people to turn in members of al-Qaeda for $5,000, which is a lot of money.
Right, and it's not even like these guys are all Saudis and Egyptians, and what the hell are you doing in Afghanistan if you're not friends with Osama?
Which, of course, there are plenty of Arabs in Afghanistan, you know, for all kinds of reasons.
Left over from the 80s when they were the good guys working for Ronald Reagan, who couldn't go home again, or were there for medical treatment, or, well, on the border region anyway, or for whatever reason.
There to help fight the communists that America backs now, the Northern Alliance, Massoud, the KGB traitor, and the rest of those guys.
But this also includes a lot of cheap herders and nobodies from Afghanistan, too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, at this point, that's why I took this step to get this unsealed, and I'm glad I did.
I'm glad that I, you know, went that far to say, hey, you know, contacting a lawyer to file this motion in the U.S. District Court, because this response is just amazing, you know, to think that this sort of fear-mongering, if you will, still exists.
I mean, I don't think anyone – I mean, the response to this story has been people just – no one believes it, you know.
So, you know, no one believes that al-Qaeda is a bunch of actually secret ninjas, and they're going to infiltrate Guantanamo.
I have to say, though, I am kind of interested to find out who these domestic enemies are.
That is kind of new.
I don't know who they're, you know, thinking would be, you know, on the domestic side, you know, would try to attack the prison.
Nah, they're just lying.
They're not thinking right now.
They're just completely full of it is all.
Thank you so much for your great journalism and your time on the show again, Jason.
Oh, thank you, Scott.
I really appreciate it.
I do, too, man.
All right, everybody, that is the great Jason Leopold.
And he writes for Al Jazeera, now aljazeera.net or .com.
Al-Qaeda might attack Guantanamo, claims U.S. liars, is the headline.
And we'll see you tomorrow.
Thanks for listening, y'all.
Hey, y'all.
Scott Horton here to tell you about this great new project, Listen and Think Audio at listenandthink.com.
They've got two new audio books read by the deepest voice in libertarianism, the great historian Jeff Riggenbach.
Our Last Hope, Rediscovering the Lost Path to Liberty by Michael Meharry of the Tenth Amendment Center is available now.
And Beyond Democracy, co-authored by Frank Karsten of the Mises Institute Netherlands and journalist Carl Beckman, will be released this month.
And they're only just getting started.
So check out listenandthink.com.
You may be able to get your first audio book absolutely free.
That's Listen and Think Audio at listenandthink.com.
Hey, Al.
Scott Horton here for thebumpersticker.com.
I created it but quickly sold it to Rick so I could do this instead.
In the decades since, he's made one hell of a great company.
Thebumpersticker.com makes digitally printed, photo quality, full color bumper stickers for your band or your business.
As well as magnets, adhesive vinyl decals and labels for products and industrial use and your political cause or campaign too.
Thebumpersticker.com also offers full custom graphic design for bringing your idea to reality.
Let thebumpersticker.com help you get the word out.
That's thebumpersticker.com at thebumpersticker.com.
Tell them you heard it here.
Hey, Al.
Scott here hawking stickers for the back of your truck.
They've got some great ones at libertystickers.com.
Get your son killed.
Jeb Bush 2016.
FDR, no longer the worst president in American history.
The National Security Agency, blackmailing your congressman since 1952.
And USA.
Sometimes we back Al Qaeda, sometimes we don't.
And there's over a thousand other great ones on the wars, police, state, elections, the Federal Reserve and more at libertystickers.com.
They'll take care of all your custom printing for your band or your business at thebumpersticker.com.
Libertystickers.com.
Everyone else's stickers suck.
Hey, Al.
Scott Horton here for wallstreetwindow.com.
Mike Swanson is a successful former hedge fund manager whose site is unique on the web.
Subscribers are allowed a window into Mike's very real main account and receive announcements and explanations for all his market moves.
The Federal Reserve has been inflating the money supply to finance the bank bailouts and terror war overseas.
So Mike's betting on commodities, mining stocks, European markets and other hedges against a depreciating dollar.
Play along on paper or with real money and then be your own judge of Mike's investment strategies.
See what happens at wallstreetwindow.com.
Hey, Al.
Scott here.
You probably ought to consider subscribing to The Future of Freedom, the journal of The Future of Freedom Foundation, in print or online.
The Future of Freedom features the best writers in the libertarian movement.
The fearless Jacob Hornberger, individualist anarchist Sheldon Richman and crusading journalist Jim Bovard, along with Anthony Gregory, Winnie McElroy, Tim Kelly, Richard Ebeling and many more.
And the July issue features one by your favorite radio host on America's Middle East policy entitled Stupidity or the Plan.
So head on over to fff.org/subscribe and sign up for The Future of Freedom in print or online.
That's fff.org/subscribe.
And tell them Scott sent you.