Scott interviews Jim Bronke about Joe Biden’s role, as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in militating for the invasion of Iraq in 2002. He deliberately stacked hearings meant to examine the potential threat of Iraqi WMD with war hawks that he knew would support the conclusions he wanted them to. Today, most democratic politicians and voters don’t seem to care at all about Biden’s worst crimes, and instead like to focus on comparatively trivial issues like his stance on busing policy.
Discussed on the show:
- “How Biden’s Secret 2002 Meetings Led to War in Iraq” (Truthout)
- “THE FIX IS IN” (Antiwar.com)
- “Biden Is Doubling Down on Iraq War Lies” (Truthout)
- Iraq Liberation Act
- The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy
Jim Bronke is a former electronics engineer for the Naval Air Warfare Center-Weapons Division. He is currently retired from engineering and chair of the SW Michigan Green Party. Follow his work at Truthout.
This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.
Following is an auto-generated transcript of the episode.
sorry I’m late. I had to stop by the wax museum again. Give the finger that FDR. We know Al Qaeda Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria. Are we supporting Al Qaeda in Syria? It’s a proud day for America. Ghad Kice, Knut Gnehm syndrome once and for all. Thank you Very. I say it. I see it again. Bin are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else except as fact Saud died way Kila Bayh, Armey Mutawakil Ind Maale we’d be Awene Beito like, say, I’m a Bin Say it, say it three times the meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world Then that’s going to be an invasion. Aren’t you guys introducing Jim Bronchi? He is formally an electron ics engineer for the Naval Air Warfare Center weapons division. And he spoke out against the Iraq war in 2003 as a member of military families. Speak out and he’s the chair of the Southwest Michigan Green Party and he’s got this piece in truth out dot or Ge very important this year how Biden’s secret 2002 meetings led to war in Iraq. Welcome to show how you doing, Jim? Doing great, Scott Couldn’t be happier. Uh, good. Happy to hear that. And very happy to have you on the show. I almost can’t believe it, but the falling words air about to fall out of my mouth. Joe Biden is by far the front runner for the Democratic Party nomination for president United States right now. And it’s early, but, um, he’s doing pretty well, and it must be that somebody hit all the Democrats on the head and they all got a case of the amnesia. So I brought you one, too. Maybe remind them of Cem pertinent facts about who this guy is and how many people he’s killed. Well, I appreciate you for that, Scott. After Awal Biden is just my worst candidate for president. Ah, I mean, when you look at what he did to create the Iraq war, it was built on nonsense. And that’s what I wrote about in my article reviewing the Senate Foreign Relations Committee meeting that he chaired, where he just stacked the deck on the participants. You didn’t see him inviting Scott Ritter. Huu said Iraqs wasn’t a threat. And to deal with them diplomatically well, now slow down a little bit because ah, a lot of our audience is young enough that they don’t know this stuff. They didn’t live through it the way that we did it. Also, he was the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Scott Ritter was Huu again. Well, Scott Ritter was a weapons inspector that went into Iraq is a part of you Nz Com Ga United Nations Special Committee And they were seeking out WMD in Iraq and disabling it. And he spent a number of years doing that. And he was basically given a lot of air time saying that there was no threat by Iraq when they’ve done a lot of disabling of WMD there. And oh, S. O Biden didn’t have him on his meeting. And, ah, he ended up just stacking the deck and having a fella by the name of our kid. You’re Hamzah, who’s wrote a book called Saddam’s Bombmaker, and he was later just discredit. It is not being much of anything. He left Iraq in 1994. So do you have any other questions? You want to go on a little bit? I mean, there was never any real evidence. And I point out with my own experience, I expected to see some details. Like Ghad. Uh, you know, Cem, radar images, satellite photos. Ah, well, as you say, the article this was all secret at first. But then I guess the transcript of the hearing was released. Was it before the war that the transcript came out? Oh, yeah, it was. It was about a month after he had this meeting. Okay. And of course, secret isn’t really right. I mean, the meeting wasn’t held in secret. It was just not open to the public. Okay? And the only way you found out about what happened is by getting the transcript. And this is the rial conundrum with our newest media’s. They didn’t do that. What? I was the only one. I mean, I believe I’m the only one that ever read the transcript. Honestly. Ah, And here we’re going to war. And our news media doesn’t even follow up on this stuff. Really? Dig in for the details. Yeah, which, by the way, I’ve never read it. Although I do have your link here. I’m opening the Lincoln Anu Taba right now because I want to go back, you know at the time. Just Ramadi Rond Antiwar Dahr Com Rotar article called The fix is in, and it was just about what you’re talking about. It was in real time that here Joe Biden is excluding anyone who knows better and is bringing Awene Awene Lee Hawks just to confirm his bias and what he wants. The rest of the Senate Democrats Thio believe in this kind of thing. And you know, in fact, I saw thing this morning or a couple days ago, I guess, by Stevens Aounist where he points out that Biden was calling for boots on the ground quote unquote in Iraq since 1998 when he helped push through the Iraq Liberation Act, which Bill Clinton signed. That on which Ron Paul warned then was a virtual declaration of war that will lead to war within a very short number of years, which turned out to be absolutely correct. So he was really just a cz Battahs Bushehr Wolfowitz on this, he was one of the prime movers. The maker sharers that this thing happened. It wasn’t just that he let it happen, or that he could have stopped at which he could have, but he was might as well have been on the Bush Cabinet. Exactly, and ATT? Some point. You have to look at how and why people like Biden come about. It’s because of the Washington environment. You know, a number of lobbying organizations that represent foreign countries. You can go to AA website like Foer, Ind. Waabi watch and just read about the amount of money they track as being given for the sake of those foreign countries. And it’s quite shocking, really. But I mean, you see links Goa round of Saeb Biden giving presentations to, you know, Cem, questionable organizations, really, in terms of their patriotism, they’re there for a foreign country, and we really have to outlaw those type of lobbying organizations. They’re not patriotic organizations, and that’s where Biden gets his strength from. And so he ends up with a foreign policy that is not for the American people in our Constitution. Yeah. Ah, well, that’s certainly right, And that certainly was a big part of what happened in Iraq. War two was the foreign lobbies, and there’s no secret the the motivations of the neoconservatives and the amount of help that they got from a pack and, uh, other pro Israel organizations during that whole time. As Walter Mearscheimer put it in their book, The Lobby. It’s not that the lobby really did the Iraq war, but it couldn’t have happened without them. So right now it’s pretty way when we give billions to Israel Huu Cannes say if some of that money isn’t coming back in the form of of aid to our politicians that support Israel, right? Uh, it’s It’s a Gn Irving, really? And Biden’s right there leading the way. Yep. And by the way, for anyone who believes this kind of slogan that we’ve all been inundated with that it may have been a mistake. But they really meant well. And everybody believed at the time that Saddam was gonna attack us with these weapons and given to Osamas Awal this. I would just point out that, and I’m no partisan of any party and especially not the Democrats. But the majority of the Democrats in the House of Representatives voted against the resolution. And so John Kerry and Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton and the different Democrat hawks in the Senate who went along with it. They have no excuse. Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of our I guess minority leader of the house then knew better. And so what was their excuse? Other than they thought it would be good for them? Atto, help! Bush killed these innocent people. It turns out more than a million of them, right? And that’s why I’ve started a Green Party chapter here. You know, it’s it’s the only one that doesn’t take money from these special interests. Hey, guys. Scott here, I got some books you should read. The War State by Mike Swanson A great history of Early Cold War No Dev No ops, no I t by Hussein Badi Aq Chessani How to run your computer business like a good libertarian. Oh, yeah, And don’t forget fool’s errand. Time to end the war in Afghanistan by me Hey, y’all, Here’s the thing. Donate $100 to the Scott Kortan show and you can get a Q R Kode Commodity disc as my gift to you. It’s a one ounce silver disc with a Q R code on the back. You take a picture of with your phone and it gives you the instant spot price and lets you know what that silver that ounce of silver is worth on the market in Federal Reserve notes in real time. It’s the future of currency in the past to commodity discs dot com, or just go to scott horton dot or Ge slash Donate. Hey, guys, you know you probably need a new website a lot of people do. What you need to do then, is Goa to expand designs dot com, the great Harley Abbott and his team over at expand designs dot com. They’ll hook you up with a great new website for 2019 and in fact, what you really should do his type Ind. Expand designs dot com slash scott, and you’ll save $500. Let me ask you about this, cause, um, I mean, I don’t know. You could probably write volumes about the whole sociology of the anti war movement in the 21st century and what all is going on with this thing where, I mean, there was obviously a great partisan interest on the entire left half of American politics from Pelosi and Awene down to oppose this war, especially once it got going in tow. Hang it around Bushies Neck for electoral reasons. It did help the Democrats in 2006 and in 2000. Ayt obviously exploiting the war and it’s pretty obvious why a lot of liberals and progressives felt like keeping their mouths shut in order to not hurt Obama when he continued all of the wars and even added a few to the list. But now I mean, it seems so strange that Donald Trump, even though he does nothing but Escalades Warsi Hatin launching a new ones. But he’s come pretty close, but he’s escalated every single one of the wars that he inherited from Obama. But he somehow is known as being sometimes saying anti war statements or something. And then so apparently that means that he’s stolen that issue entirely from liberals and progressives. Huu Now I would rather not say anything anti war because that would what Nic Obama look bad and Trump look good so they can’t even say an anti interventionist thing at all now or something. There’s just this total silence, even though the foreign policy under a Republican president is absolutely horrible and and but instead, let’s argue about pronouns or let’s argue about Russia or some nonsense instead of looking at the wars in the Middle East and all the damage that they’ve brought. And I don’t mean to indict the entire left. I mean, especially riel leftists. Obviously, Huu hate Democrats are hard core on this stuff and are good on this stuff. And a lot of progress is, too, especially writers and things. But you know what I mean? In terms of the broad sort of liberal population of America, it just seems like all this stuff, even though the Iraq war continues to this day. We got American troops fighting in western Iraq right now, and the whole thing is just seems to no longer be an issue. Did you hear There’s a fire on a farm in Brazil? Oh, boy. Well, yeah. The Amazon rainforest is the last concern that Trump has Azzam Leylaz, the Eni part of our climate change or ecology. My point was that is just that it’s the story of the day. It’s the new cycle story of the day. And so the genocide in Yemen has to take a back seat, you know? Oh, yeah. Well, Trump hasn’t started a war, but he just doesn’t have the competence to, uh, inspire most of Americans. But they’ll go along. And I’m afraid I just don’t have any trust in our mainstream news media anymore. I think they’re like the tail wagging the dog, and they continually wag the dog with their own propaganda. And Americans, I think, are quite frustrated with our mainstream news media. Really, that’s a big part of how Trump got elected was by demonizing them, and people agreed with what he said about them that, Jeez, they lie to you all the time and they try to force you to believe what they want you to believe. And everybody said, Yeah, we hate that. And so right in the concept of fake news, Aiken credit with Trump with that, You know, really, because a lot of it is fake and it’s funnycause. That term originally applied to sites that were really just, like, not really like the Onion. But there was sites like, for example, that you times or the national report, and basically the the articles themselves weren’t funny. The joke was just if they could get you to believe it essentially and they were all hoax stories and that was what the term originally used. But then people recognize elect, You know what? The Washington Post isn’t any more honest than that. The Wall Street Journal in The New York Times aren’t any more honest than that. And Lord knows NBC News isn’t any more honest than that. So what? They might as well apply it where it fits, you know? Right? And the problems then perpetuate themselves. And by the way, this goes back to your article and Iraq War two. And not just all the media’s failure then, but the complete and total lack of accountability for those failures. And I mean the verb, you know, the failures that they committed, but also the failures, the people Huu went along for the money and for the social psychology of the whole situation. Huu should have all been completely purged. Every one of those newspaper at every newspaper editor in America should Bin fired and replaced by somebody who knew better in 2002. But that just didn’t happen. 2003. That just didn’t happen right in. It’s a shame it mean capitalism rules, and the owners of the franchise is stay in business. Yep, and their agenda stay the same. All right now, the only so people can do is what you’re doing, which is act as an independent new source on. That’s what I do in a way, just by telling my friends. Sure, Andrei, we can do it better now with, like, Facebook and stuff that a lot of the different networks out there YouTube does do help you get the word out well, and that’s why they’re panicking and trying to clamp down on it so hard on the right and the left. And for anyone, because essentially, it’s about power versus those who don’t have any and want some is the rial division that play. And so they’re clamping down on on the you know, all kinds of people and Ind De platforming them, as they call it, De ranking them on Google and all these things. There’s a whole other fight, but I want to go back to this thing that you wrote here about when you read the transcript about because of your experience in the Navy. Maybe you talk a little bit about that and what it was that you were expecting. You had a pretty good educated guess as to what you would find in the transcripts of these hearings where the experts came and explained to Joe Biden. Yeah, here’s what they have and here’s how we know it. And instead you read it and felt really deflated because of what turned out. It turned out that none of that stuff was in there. But if you could see there was no riel fax, it was all like conjecture. Wait, go back to your position in the Navy and then what you expected to see in there at a minimum? Well, sure, Like real discussions off weapons technology. You know, navigation systems, radar, uh, even biological warfare, Ind warheads and Arak doesn’t have our technology they don’t have. You can’t put together I c b m is like with a rag tag team of of engineers. And so if someone proud of America and our accomplishments, I know 1/3 World nation just couldn’t stand up to us and the technology. So it was Awal inference on things that Saddam said and what their government did like Oh, they said this, but they really mean that, like they’re hiding WMD somewhere. Well, that’s that prove Thio push us to war. Shouldn’t Bayh Uh, yeah, We should be a nation of integrity, not nonsense. And that was nonsense. Well, tell me this were their evidence is in there of kind of other motives that they, you know, weren’t really talking about because, like he said, it was kind of a private meeting. I wonder if they were a little loose lipped about what they were really doing since they really weren’t talking about weapons of mass destruction. Natta Gn Eni detailed way well, right? And I think the most damning damning thing in the entire transcript is on page 15 since you’ve opened it up. Ah, statement by Dr Ki Idir Hamzah and it’s only Dem damning in a illogical way It it’s just conjecture. And so he really says something like, Well, they said that if they let us in, we’re compromising their security. But what they really mean is they want to hide their WMD from us. That’s conjecture. And and of course, it turned out to be that they weren’t hiding Eni at W M. D. Because they didn’t have any more right. And of course, they’d already let the U. N inspect everything other than the palaces themselves, which, you know, people might not even believe us if they don’t remember this from back then. But that this was a crucial argument of the war party at the time was that we know that he has chemical weapons factories underneath his palaces because that’s where Saddam’s sleeps at night is in the penthouse suite above a chemical weapons factory. And so that must be the only reason that they won’t let us inspect the bunkers and tunnels underneath his palaces and grown adult human beings, including, you know, professionals in the media. As you’re emphasizing here, swallow that and regurgitated it for their audiences to Oh, yeah, that’s obviously why Saddam Hussein won’t let American and U. N forces underneath his palaces is because he’s making mustard gas down there even without Ronald Reagan to help him, right? And who would want mustard gas underneath their home seriously, especially what dictator who can have whatever he wants? You know, there might be poor people in America don’t have a choice but to live next to a military base full of chemical weapons. But, uh, Dom Hussein, I’m pretty sure he could at least station himself down the block or something, you know, But they made it sound like, Well, he put it there just to protect it. Right? That and of course, you’re just not supposed to ask the question. Would he really take that risk living on top of, ah, batch of sarin, you know? Come on. Right. But that’s how they got us into war. That’s what they told your mom and dad. Kids. Saddam has a secret Sepp Arun factory underneath his bedroom. And so we have to start a war in order to protect you from. And your mom and dad bought it, too. How do you like that? Sorry. Yeah, yeah. I actually have a nephew that actually serve. Yeah, in the military in Saddam’s compound. They’re doing I t work, uh, you know, during the war and and so, yeah, they didn’t have anything down there. Course in Honduras compound. I mean, So we we have to address just how illogical our government ca Gn be sometimes and how they just don’t listen to the people. I was just part of the millions that protest Id the war, and yeah, they didn’t listen. All right, so becomes Where do we go from here? Can we really fight against, you know, foreign lobbying groups against illogical aid to foreign countries that Foer questionable, You know, for us to be a can we really call out of these foreign countries Like our allies? Some of them aren’t, You know that we send aid to and it turns around and comes back and pays off our politicians. Yeah, well, you know, I really appreciate you write in this thing and because Biden deserves the heat, But besides that, you know, it should. In my mind, it’s always 2002 in 2003. And that’s how it should be for the American people that we should not be able to just get over this, get past this, forget about this. And there’s so many important lessons to come from this entirely, you know, massively destructive, unforced error. This even from the point of view of the American Empire, they shouldn’t have done this the way All they did was in power Iran and empower Al Qaeda and not win a bunch of permanent bases, not improve America’s, you know, position and power and influence in the Middle East at all. Even from the empire’s point of view, it’s been counterproductive from the average American’s point of view from the average Iraqis. Point of view. This is just like when the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor. Day of infamy started a war against us. How dare they? Those sneaky bastards that’s we did started a war and Wone got more than a million people killed. And as you’re saying here over a bunch of nonsense that anyone could have seen through if they wanted to at the time it was against our Constitution, and it set America on a downhill slide, which we weren’t focused on ourselves. We’re really focused on Iraq and look what happened in 2000 Ayt you know, we had our own economic catastrophe? Yep, which, which you could really say, was partially due to the war, of course. Absolutely. I mean, they had to make the Warsi Gn free. Can you imagine if they just raised everyone’s taxes? Listen, we let Osama Goa, but now we want to have another war against Saddam Hussein who didn’t do it. But it’s gonna be really expensive. It’s gonna cost five or $6 trillion so What we’re gonna do is we’re gonna bump everyone up a tax bracket. And what would happen then? George Bush would have been run out of town on a rail. Instead, they just had Alan Greenspan print the money and make it seem free. And in fact, I think it’s really lucky for history that the crash did happen while Bush was still in power. He still had to. Three months to go is a lame duck. Their September Oo weighed it, crashed on his watch, so I couldn’t just blame it all on the next guy whose policies were exactly the same, by the way, he just started up. You know exactly what Bush did, too. Oh, we have a crash. Let’s print money and launch new wars. And unfortunately, he got out of power before the next crash. So it’ll be blamed on his successor, although he deserves his share of the blame for it. But still Ah, yeah, that’s the whole thing, man, about this, why we have to keep going back over this because it didn’t have to be this way. All these are decisions that certain humans made that they did not have to make it could have been totally different. The counterfactual is so obvious. Joe Biden could have said to Hillary and to carry. Hey, we got to stop this. We can do it, Hillary. You’re the wife of the former president. Get out there and tell him that you know that this stuff isn’t true and me and him will back you up. Let’s save the day. They could have done that, and they could have stopped the war. They could have told the American people, Dick Cheneys, far more dangerous to our country than Saddam Hussein. And, you know, they could have done it. But they decided instead that it would for their own selfish interests that they would look better as hawks. Because you know a lot of those guys, Bill Clinton, even though he was just the governor at the time. But also carry. And Biden had opposed Iraq war Wone and then had never led, you know, um uh, what’s the service at? Fraser lived it down. They had never been able to live that down, that they had voted against the first Iraq war, which was such a great war that they had to continue it. 10 years later. But, um, so they figured they better support this Wone when they could have been heroes. And it wouldn’t have taken much effort either. As you said, there were millions of people in the street demanding that they do something to stop it. But they refused. It’s very frustrating for the average American. The average American doesn’t even watch. The news are mainstream news, and I have no faith in our mainstream news myself. If reporting out a hurricane, I might watch. That’s about it. Yeah, yeah, Then I have too much interest to lie to us about when and where it’s going to make landfall most the time, probably. But yeah, that’s the other thing, too, is where Iraq could could actually service a false example of like, well, that one time when in fact, they’ve done nothing but lies in the war ever since they lied us into staying in Iraq ever after the invasion of Oo three, they lied us into Libya. They lied us into Syria. They lied us into rap for three where you know against the Islamic state they’ve lied us into Ah, well, I didn’t even mention their wars, and Molly in Somalia and some of these other places. But the entire thing has been based off a dishonesty. They lied to us about the whole Russia Ge Ayt scam for three years. They lied to us about everything all the time. And so yeah, at least if one can get people to, um to err, err on the side of Peace Assn. Long as you’re not believing them, then I think that’s progress. Well, I have a special amount of frustration also that I I had to start following at the age of 50 the real events in the Middle East and research the United Nations, the creation of Israel and even current reporting on serious events in Israel in the Middle East. And I realized that our news media was just not honest with that either. And that became a really sticky issue with me because Americans aren’t getting the truth with the rial nature of things and Israel. And I mean, I’ve got a Jewish friend girlfriend who left is your was born in Israel, came to America and never went back. And so I have Jewish friends, but still that it doesn’t mean I realized that Israel is a good place for Jews. It wasn’t created like America Wasat. It was created out of desperation by Joost Oo have a place for Jews when most of the people that lived there weren’t Jewish and so became, ah, nation of unequal rights. And that is ultimately bad for the favored group of people. So Andar news media just doesn’t get to the real truth there. And we’re in a continued state of, um, disorder because of it. Yeah, I think that’s such a great point that you make that it’s against the interests of the Israelis to let their government keep doing what they’ve been. Don’t just like Ron Paul, it said, back in this big fight with Giuiliani about if you think that America congest Goa around the world, doing whatever we want and never have to suffer the consequences that you believe that you know, we believe that at our own peril, Huu, we’re liable to get ourselves into real messes if we’re blind to the real consequences. What happens if we blame extraneous circumstances, Foer the causes of our problems instead of living up to the reality that I think that absolutely is true in the case of Israel. A swell where any friend of Israel would tell them that you got to get rid of Likudnik man. And for that matter, you know, labor to these guys. What they’re doing is they set Israel on a path where, you know, essentially can’t be Israel anymore. They’re not gonna be able to keep half their population in bondage forever. And so they’re either gonna let him go or they’re going to give up the exclusive Jewish nature of their state. And they want neither. But they’re going to have to choose. And the fact that they’re in this position is only because they’ve let their government put them in this position. They could have let the West Bank Oo 50 years ago, you know? Right? And we should be sending three billion a year to the non Jews. They’re called the Palestinians instead of Israel. And that would probably stop a lot of the conflict. You know, just call the whole intervention off. I mean, without American cover, I think Israel would have to make peace very quickly. But Oo may would have to learn the concept of equal rights and fairness and not shoot people just goes their protest ng and not Jews, you know, protesting Jerusalem. You know, that was just the latest round of ugly Nas six months ago when they killed, like, 50 Palestinian protesters protesting Jerusalem as the new Jewish capital. The story goes on and on and on. Our news media doesn’t jump to the cause of really criticizing Israel. Yeah, now they never will either. It is up to you and me, but I’ll tell you what. I’m so sorry that I have to let you go here. I am really late for my next Wone, but I hope you’ll keep riding more. I see you have archive here at truth, out dot or Ge, And I hope you keep writing. And I hope if you do have an email list of some kind that you’ll put me on it because I like this stuff. Okay, Scott. All right. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, everybody, that is Jim Bronchi. And he wrote this great thing at truth. Out dot or Ge Shoah, all your liberal friends. It’s called how Biden’s secret 2002 meetings led to war in Iraq. All right, y’all Thanks. Find me at Libertarian Institute Dot or Ge at scott Kortan dot or Ge antiwar dot com and reddit dot com slash scott Horton Show. Oh yeah, and read my book Fool’s Errand Timed and the War in Afghanistan at Fool’s errand dot us.
More places to listen to The Scott Horton Show.
Scott Horton has done over 5,400 interviews with military leaders, whistleblowers, and investigative journalists. Avoid being part of the mob that calls for innocent blood by learning from foreign-policy experts, and spread the message of peace to others.