Scott interviews Philip Weiss about Israel’s occupation of Palestine and the way the Palestinian people have been completely deprived of their rights there. Weiss is glad that the recent fiasco around Rashida Tlaib’s and Ilhan Omar’s visit to Israel has brought publicity to the BDS movement, but is baffled that most Americans are either unaware of Israel’s gross abuses, or simply don’t care.
Discussed on the show:
- “Trump is parroting Zionist doctrine: U.S. Jews must be loyal to Israel” (Mondoweiss)
- “Political Upheaval Over Tlaib and Omar Shows the Power of BDS | Common Dreams Views” (Common Dreams)
- “’50-year-old Palestinians… have never lived in freedom their whole lives,’ Rivera says on Fox, defending Tlaib” (Mondoweiss)
This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.
Following is an auto-generated transcript of the episode.
sorry I’m late. I had to stop by the wax museum again and did the finger that FDR We know Al Qaeda. Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria. Are we supporting Al Qaeda in Syria? It’s a proud day for America. Ghad Kice, Knut Gnehm syndrome once and for all. Thank you Very I say And I see it again. Bin are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else except Assn. Fact Saud Die away. Kila Maale Armey Khaleeq Illit Maale We be Awene Beito like, say, I’m Ain Bin Say it. Say it three times the meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world. Then that’s going to be an invasion Arak. Aren’t you guys introducing our friend Phil Weiss? He runs the great blawg Mondo Weiss at Monta weiss dot net. It’s you know, what do you have, like a a tagline or whatever I would say it’s It’s a liberal Jewish anti Zionism. Is that essentially right? Um, we try to you know, we don’t really say we’re Jewish. We did come out of the Jewish community and a lot of us who work. There are a few of us are Jewish, but I It’s more, you know, we’re a little bit more neutral now. News and opinion about Palestine. Israel in the U. S. So? But, yeah, we I come out. I’m sort of the most strongly identified juju, juju, typewriter. You know, I do talk about it a lot. Yeah. I mean, it’s my community have come out of, I feel like I know Itta writer supposed to write about what they know about, um this is all I know about, kind of from being young, you know? Now I’m not young, but whatever. You know, that’s something I know about. So I like to write about Jewish community. Yes, and I think it’s a very powerful community, so no one’s gonna shut me up on that one. Well, and you write about American politics, which you’re also an expert in, Well, Ind Ihsan, everybody you know, I mean, everyone’s got their opinion about Yeah, I I try to study American politics, but, you know, that’s as you and I both know that’s a long study and there are a lot of people engaged in it. And, um, yes, I’m my point of view on American politics and certainly the politics of the Israel lobby. I think that I consider myself expert in I. It’s something I’ve studied. I know a lot of information about it. Um and, ah, you know, I have a strong point of view that the Israel lobby is very runs our foreign policy in the Middle East, but, you know, that’s my point of view. But I can offer evidence to back that up you have. Boy, can you, uh and you know, I recommend or I don’t recommend depending on your choice is signing up for the Monta y Stalin net. Morning email on this is how I, you know, have my morning coffee every morning and ah, I for me, it’s just right. It might be a little much for some, uh, to start your day out every day that way, But it’s such great stuff that you have. And did I neglect to say at the beginning there? Oh, you you sort of alluded to the set. You have many great writers and you know you Ah, you write a lot of great stuff, but you have I don’t know how many, you know, kind of in house writers air regular contributors, but something like 1/2 dozen or a dozen eight or 10 or sometimes But there’s a lot Ghad Khatt. But you know, Scott, there’s a lot going on. I appreciate you’re promoting us. I really appreciate it. But, um, I’m curious to hear what you have to say about the world today. Well, first, I’m gonna ask you about this article. We can catch up on some things. We got a minute. Um, but this piece, we Raan antiwar dot com and I think it’s really important political upheaval over is it to Labott Azeis ao much tv Fitr, Itta Leat Atto Leave Atto, Labott and Omar shows the power of BTS. And that’s boycott divestment and sanctions the movement to boycott Israel. And, um So tell us about this. The obviously this concerning their being disallowed by the Israeli government to take a trip to Palestine and, ah, the politics surrounding that. So can you just guess Start out with filling us in and then telling us your angle here. Well, Scott, just to be clear, do you or your listeners surely aware that Russia Leat Atto leave uh, Congresswoman from Detroit and Ilan Moammar Congresswoman from Minneapolis were stopped by Israel from visiting last week. Probably way Awal. We always saw the headline. Okay, so my argument. So this was a big event in the politics of this issue. These women were kept from visiting days after 75 Congress. People went over on Ah, the Israel lobby, a pax dime and that all the Democrats student applauded for Netanyahu and then two other Democrats who didn’t want to go on that a pack trip said They’re going over to the West Bank and, ah, Rashid Atto leaves Grandmother lives on the West Bank and they were kept from entering it is Israel or Palestine by Netanyahu. So Israel thought, I think that it could get away with this without a lot of attention. Uh, Netanyahu was playing to his base. Trump was surely playing to his, uh, shell Gn Edelson base when he signed off. On it or signaled is a great approval of Netanyahu’s decision. But it’s had a, you know, massive political consequences in my little world. I mean, it’s been a huge headline. It led the news when these women were kept from going in in, in on the nightly news I think it was, You know, which I watch every night, NBC or whatever. It was like the lead item one night or two nights in a row, certainly on PBS and National Public Radio, all these kind of liberal venues. And so from my standpoint, this was ages. Tremendous, wonderful thing that happened. And, uh, I mean, it’s horrible. They didn’t get in, But it was wonderful moment of people seeing Israel for what it is a very undemocratic society. That when Palestinian American and most to Muslim Congresswoman Wana, come see what’s going on with the $3.8 billion a year that we give them to oppress Palestinians. No, they’re not allowed in a pack. They’re allowed to come in. So my point in that article was simply that we have had opposition to the occupation of a lip service variety from the political establishment, the United States for the last 25 30 years of the peace process. Ever since the Palestinian said we will accept a state on 22% of the land. The American political establishment has been more or less for a quote unquote two state solution and all these liberal Zionists and American Democrats have said were against the settlements because they keep the Palestinians from getting a state. But we’re for a Palestinian state and nothing has happened. Israel’s done whatever it’s wanted. It has continued to gobble up that land there has been. I don’t know if this is news, but there’s been no Palestinian state in the last 30 years, despite thes pronounce pronouncements that there’s gonna be one. And, uh so so none of the sort of conventional understanding of how to deal with Israel has worked. And it’s not a surprise the conventional understanding of how to deal with the Jim Crow south or the apartheid South Africa didn’t Didn’t you know political negotiation and dialogue with him doesn’t work. You need pressure on these. Ah, these kind of outlaw operations, thes robe governments. And that’s what you know. Israel is, ah, flouting international law, and there’s one way to address it nonviolently. And that’s the BDS movement. That’s why these women didn’t get in. They support BDS. So my point in this article was yes, it’s a great moment where people are paying a lot of attention. Hey, the last time they paid so much attention. Five years ago, 2200 Palestinians were killed. 500 children were killed. Last year, there were the big headlines when 62 Palestinian protesters were killed at the Gaza fence slaughtered. That’s a terrible thing that’s happened there. I mean, just the number of Palestinians maim the guy. Guys walking around Palestine with Awene crutches. Huu can’t walk anymore. These, you know. Ah, the bloodshed has been enormous. And yes, it has brought some attention to these human rights issues in this siege and blockade on this on Gaza, you know the imprisonment of two million people? Well, here we had to Congress women putting the lens on Palestine in a similar way, getting a lot of attention to Palestine conditions because they endorsed a Non five violent boycott movement. And I just was overwhelmed by that politically and just sort of expressing God bless these women, Foer endorsing that movement. It’s what Rosa Parks did in 1955 in Montgomery, Alabama, when she didn’t think it was right that black people had to sit on the back of the bus. And, you know, profanity lets you know. Ah, expletive deleted. But what Israel is running in the West Bank is a lot worse than was the Montgomery. And, um, it’s a lot like what was happening in South Africa. It’s apartheid, and there’s one way to deal with that. And that’s boycott divestment and sanctions. And it works. So that that was my only point there. And I’m grateful to anti war dot com for picking it up. Yeah, man. Well, we love running this stuff. Um, you know, it’s essentially news analysis. There’s some opinion in here, but what it is is you’re really Yeah, Your opinion is just leading Yukio take the correct angle on what the right questions are to get him to hear, you know? And so you know, essentially what you’re getting to, you know, overall, I don’t know if you exactly say it this way. Is you’re talking about the success of BTS as essentially a publicity stunt Oo cause a public relations campaign because, you know, I forgot who wrote this, but I read recently where someone it may have been. You said no one imagines that Israel is gonna be cut off from global capital, right? That, you know, this is this is not an existential threat to Israel’s economy. What it is is it’s existential threat to their public relations that their poor little Israel besieged. By the way, when BTS raises the question of why would have decent person as opposed to some Nazi? Why would a decent person want to boycott Israel? If you don’t know the answer to that? That’s a pretty obvious question. Why would a guy like you wanna boycott Israel? And Oh yeah, Goa question. I haven’t Ansar. Well, see, it’s like this. And then you tell him a little bit of history that they don’t understand. And now they’re on your side and that’s why they’re terrified. Is because this is it’s not just disruptive of the narrative. It’s a superior, simple and honest truth here. I think you’re right. That’s very helpful framing, and I left out that piece to which is a BDS drives these people haywire. Zenko Israel is going. They think it’s an existential threat and you just framed it right? Why is it an extension existential threat? Because maybe people you know open their eyes little, but they go around saying this is anti Semitism and Des legitimization of the Jewish state and destruction of Israel and all this kind of hysterical stuff and, you know Ah, it’s because it really does represent a for the first sort of successful counter narrative in the West. And I Yeah, I think you’re right. I think it’s huge. And, um, it’s I think it will catch on. Yeah. Now I got to say this for my own libertarian point of view that I’m Foer be Ind De but not s now. I think if you’re a Palestinian, then you ca Gn sanction Awal you want If you have any power to I guess you don’t. Um but that would be self defense. But for the rest of us, I think of that is, you know, aggression against the Israelis. Trying to prevent someone else from trading with them is a lot different than boycotting and divesting, you know? Okay, but what about what about the $3.8 billion that is going from your pocket and mine to the Israelis every year in aid? Well, so what if the opposite of that is stopping it Not putting three trained $3 billion worth of sanctions on them. You know what I mean? I don’t want to have an aggression against him. I just want to see that you get all the you can get off the bandwagon. When it comes to that, you got a long ways to go 3.8 billion that’s pouring out of this country. Israel. That is completely ridiculous. I forgot. I read somewhere about its 12th. There’s some kind of thing that I’m no good at arithmetic, but but be Ind De and yet PR, That’s what it is. It’s a giant question raising campaign. You know, what’s the problem, anyway? I thought the Israelis were our friends. What’s the big deal? There is a big deal. There is one. You don’t get to see it on TV. But now that you’ve asked, there are people who have an answer for you. And so that’s again like you’re saying it is an existential threat, not in a financial way, but in a manner of completely undermining the credibility of their, you know, puppet show their charade. There hasbara campaign about Huu Zuman Huu over there and how they’re getting away with it. I love it, I love it. And I’d say that you know, to uh, you know, Otpor, What you’re saying someone gets to say, Hey, are you trying to delegitimize Israel? And I think that the fair Ansar from BDS Advocates is to say yes. We are trying to delegitimize the idea of a Jewish state. Uh, we don’t I mean, not that we lived there, but, you know, we don’t want to live in a religious state in the United States, and we don’t want to prop up a religious state that’s so obnoxious to, you know, the 50% of its subjects who are not of that religion, you know, Why should we call that a democracy? It’s not a democracy. So, yes, we’re delegitimizing the idea that this is a democracy. So I think, Well, I’m repeating myself. Yeah, you know what? I want to raise this thing, man. It came up one time with Ramzy Baruta, friend of the show, and I think you re publish him from time time. You must know Ramzy. Yeah, yeah, Palestinian and great writer and teacher and everything. And so at some point, we kind of been through this exercise a few times where I’m saying to Ramzy. Yeah, but what if they had not, you know, colonized the West Bank. What if they had said Okay, you know what? The West Bank and Gaza, You can have a separate state and right of return. Well, not to your grandma’s village, but you can come back to a free and prosperous and independent West Bank and Gaza Strip and have a decent life. And settle for that on your 22% of the land that they said they would settle. Foer. Um And so, you know, maybe they could have a Jewish democracy that maybe 48 the Gn Aq but is a fate accompli. They did succeed in removing all of those Muslims and Christians from the land and creating this 80 20 Super Dooper majority of Jews inside what we call Israel proper and all that. So So, jeez, Ramzy Baruta in the counterfactual. Couldn’t things have been, you know, maybe, except 48 But the real problem 67. Maybe that’s kind of a way to say and then his Ansar is like, Yeah, but look at the reality. And this is Zionism. There’s Natta, Zionism where the counterfactual kicked in and they ever allowed the Palestinians toe have peace or independence or the slightest bit of dignity this whole time. And so you could say, Wouldn’t it be nice? But the proof is in the reality that these people are living to this day, for God’s sake, it’s almost 2020 and we’re still talking about this. The two state solution. It already is one state. They already annexed the West Bank back in 1967 were just Bin and denial this whole time, letting get away with pretending that someday they’re going to give it up when we all know that that’s not true. No, I think. Look, I think that’s a brilliant exchange that you’re conveying to your listeners because our side, my side, is often accused Assn. Of being nihilists or utopians because we are saying it goes back to 48 and you are saying international opinion said, Let’s make this a 67 problem and the Palestinians accepted that. And you know what? I agree with you. I agree that there’s a lot of arrangements in the world that are unjust or that reflect historic and justice, that there’s a limit to how much we can do about and the world came to that consensus that this is what’s going on, and the Palestinians accepted it. Amazingly, they accepted this idea of a Palestinian state on that, you know, small mental land that less than 1/4. But as Ramses pointed out to you, I mean that that you know. So I’m not a nihilist. Had there been a really viable two state solution around when I got engaged in this issue, in fact, I did support it. When I came in, I said, Hey, look, let’s just get out of this conflict This consensus exists. Let’s just grab it palate, you know? But Israel has destroyed the two state solution. It’s just that’s the truth of the matter, and it and and I agree with Ramzy to that’s what Zionism looks like. Zionism was not happy with. Ah, you know that 78% and this will look like in retrospect. I think when Israel, ultimately Palestine, become a democracy ultimately, uh, and potentially a lot of bloodshed. Let’s not be naive about this, that this is not gonna be an easy road, but when when ultimately, you know, there’s a more democratic society there, people look back on it say you could have had your Jewish state just like what you said, Scott. You could. It was on the table and you folks wanted more. You were greedy and you know it’s it’s gonna turn into this amazing historic moment. I mean, the whole thing’s historic, but I think they did. They blew it. That an opportunity. And they blew it. Yeah, well, it’s such a basic thing, too. Awal morality aside, simply descriptive, not normative terms here, possession of the West Bank. But they kept all the people they didn’t do. And they actually did expel another couple 100,067. I learned, you know, relatively recently. But they didn’t finish the job, quote unquote. But they did take possession of the land. It’s sort of like the Indians with the Hindu nationalist. They hate the Muslim so much so they annexed outright all of Kashmir for everybody’s Ind puzzle. Um, well, does that seem kind of counterproductive toward your exclusivist goals here? Why can’t people think this stuff through? And the answer is just cause they want the land and the Palestinian people congest goto hell, some Some way or another, they’re going to get out of the way. And the Landay Cem area will belong to the Israelis. Okay, but so, Scott, I mean, we were expressing this outrage in AA and sort of marveling that this they would even have this hubris to do this. What? What likelihood isn’t there? Ah, riel likelihood that they will be able to achieve that kind of passive quiet ethnic cleansing in which, um, you know, they make life unbearable for Palestinians in the West Bank and they’re forced into these banners, stands or into Jordan or whatever. I mean, provided the right crisis. Yes. I mean, who’s going to stop? The Americans will let him do it. And do you think at Americans of any political stripe will let them do it? Yeah. Americans in power? No, Eni president and his Cabinet would let them do it right. Yukio Natta, Do you think there’s any change on the rise in there? Well, so that’s the next topic, right? Is Trump versus the Democrats in this hilarious and maddening and and and entertaining crack up in American politics here, where this thing is falling apart in the most hilarious of ways? Really? I’m sure you read the Beinarts piece in the forward, where he quotes 45 very prominent Zionists like Thomas Friedman and Aaron, David Miller and others saying, Oh, no, it’s a crisis. The bipartisan consensus over Israel wants no matter what and never so much is squeaking about. It is breaking and and you have the most cynical S. O. B is president, right? Like this guy who accused Jeb Bush of impotence to get elected like this guy who is absolutely shameless, who’s willing to a, you know, try to exploit the Democrats division and used the so called Scud Ghad thes two Muslim women’s and their women in their fellow travelers here against Pelosi and the rest of them and all of this on Ga. Anyway, you talk now. Isn’t it funny, Isn’t it something? What do you think is gonna happen? Well, I mean, I’m excited. I mean, ah ah, you know, I regard this is a great thing that, uh, the policy might actually be bipartisan. That there may be by Excuse me, There may be partisan conflict over this. It’s kind of like I feel a little bit like, you know, what’s my if I’m If I’m against Israel’s Ah, ethnic cleansing and its oppression of Palestinians. What’s my address in American politics? I’ve had no address in American politics, thanks to good liberal Zionist like J. Street and Union Refer Foer, Mme. Judea, Cem Awal the big Jewish organizations. That’s a policy Awene Israel Our support for Israel must be bipartisan. Nancy Pelosi. This capital will crumble and fall into the ground before Democrats walk away from Israel. And yeah, it’s funny because here you have four Congress. Women are actually two two and 1/2 expressing Cem serious misgivings about Israel for the first time you have Congress people endorsing BDS two of them. And you know Trump is making political hay out of it and painting the Democratic Party as anti Israel and you anti Semitic to which is served but anti Israel on the basis of these two people and, you know, from your lips to God’s ears Donald Trump. Well, I hope I have a political address for my feelings about Israel, and maybe I will get one because, God knows, the base of the Democratic Party supports taking away military aid from ah, an apartheid state. I mean, you have 56% of Democrats who support removing money. American Ayt because they do not end the occupation, they continue to build settlements. So that’s a great. In my view. It’s regret that part is a great thing. Some of his rhetoric has been very concerning, you know, you know, as you if it is, it’s disturbing some of the stuff he says. But yeah, he’s disrupting something in what I hope is a good way. Yeah. Oh, he’s a sledgehammer. I mean, well, so a couple of things here. I mean, um, first of all, did you see the Dan Dresner quote? This may be the first time I’ve quoted Danl Dresner. Um wow. Hi. On Twitter was Nai Maale Id probably plagiarized all this from your website anyway. Oh, look for Dresdner right now. Goa Awene Yahia Awal. So he had this great quote where he said, Is Donald Trump an anti Semite or a file Oo Sem might. And the answer is that he believes in all of the worst, most bigoted stereotypes about Jews. But he thinks they’re all great attributes. He thinks they’re all positive. And so that’s why he’s and then The example, of course, is where he’s saying, Neo Eni, American Jew, which I guess by the way American Jews vote Democrat like 80 20 or 80 85 15 or something like that, he says. Eni, American Jew votes Democrat is disloyal to Israel. And then so everybody just how ls that? How dare he implied that Jews in America have any loyalty whatsoever to Israel, which is a little bit against the rest of the narrative most of the time, which is that American Jews better toe the line and better support this thing because Israel is the most important project of Awal, right, right? Yeah, and that’s the piece I’m most proud of this week that I did, which is, um, I mean, I have to be a self promoter for a moment. I pointed out that when Trump said, American Jews are being disloyal to Israel and everyone’s so shocked and so upset by this and yeah, it’s or you know, he could be weaponizing some, you know, anti Jewish feeling out there about disloyalty, it whatever. Nonetheless, he’s echoing right wing Zionists and even liberal Zionists Huu for generations now have said you must not. We must unconditionally support Israel, so none of these liberal Zionist organizations is ever the other critical of Israel. But would they ever say American age should be removed from Israel? Know, we’ve got a bipartisan support for Israel. So that requires a certain loyalty on the part of Joost toward Israel. And some of the statements of right wing Zionist are explicitly You must not criticize Israel. You must be you, you Elliot Abrams, who works in the Trump administration. Jews stand apart from any society they live in. Except Israel were part this is Zionism. Okay, Zion Nai Minh not quoting Abrams Now, Zionism beliefs. There is a Jewish people. It is a Jewish nation. It is centered in Israel because he could be just as easily exactly quoting Cem vicious anti Semite making that same statement, right, Cem, Ehren Leat that stuff. Yeah. So it’s a vision of the world. And Trump was that going in so well? Yeah, man, Um, and I like how you know you use in your example here. Um Jeffrey Goldberg Huu. All right, He’s a kind of gone silent or something for a while here. But there was one that I think he quoted here where during the Iran nuclear deal we’re hosting. American Jews are still who are supporting the president of the United States that most of them voted for in his attempt Id diplomacy with Iran here that they’re stabbing Israel in the back in the worst kind of terms, calling them Kappos in this kind of thing, right? Yeah, exactly. And you know, Dershowitz did the same thing to Richard Goldstone when he criticized Israel in the Goldstone report. He called him a traitor and, you know, an evil man. So you know, Trump when people are saying, Oh, Trump was being so anti Semitic and this disloyal thing No, He’s talking to these right wing, you know, fascistic Zionists who say you gotta be loyalty Israel and he’s hearing matinees. He’s echoing it so well, yeah. The other funny thing about this, of course, is that Eni Israeli patriot should hate their government. I mean, that’s what a patriot is supposed to do. Oppose their government, right? Isn’t that what we do every day is try to save our country from the people in power over it? And why would anyone conflate these things? What could possibly be worse again for the idea of the 80 20 Super Dooper majority Jewish Democratic state, then the government that rules it, continuing the policy that they’ve had for the last half a century in colonizing the rest off Palestinian territory. There, the the counterfactual Scott is that that from the beginning this has been a Sparta. Israel has been a Sparta society, a militarized society surrounded by enemies. They constantly tell us they’re in the toughest neighborhood in the world. Maybe that tough neighborhood has a little bit to the fact that had to do with the fact that your bomb in Syria, your bomb and limit on your bombing Arak, you know. Okay, whatever Israel it lives. Surrounded by enemies, they elect generals as prime ministers or people with blood on their hands that become prime ministers there, sport of society, they There’s a kind of a national psychosis about, you know, us versus them. So I don’t think the definition of patriot there, I think, is pretty distorted. And that’s the terrible thing about American Jews is that we’re distant from that. We should be telling them. Look, my my publisher, who went to is his Bin Israel 25 times and went the 1st 15 times when he’s a young man hoping to get into Israeli politics someday. He came home 22 years ago and said, Mom, there’s something wrong when my friends are cousins are our friends go to the movie theater and they have to get a gun before they go to the movie theater. You know, they’re always arming themselves Everywhere they go. I don’t like what I’m seeing there. He saw that. It’s obvious when you go over there, that place is hyper militarized and, you know, surrounded by M and enemies and it’s, Ah, us versus them And it’s just so the Patriots, you know, you expected American Joost would have a little bit of distance from that and be able to criticize it. But no, they haven’t been able to. Yeah, well, it’s the same thing. Is anything right? It takes, I guess, the people who are literally disengaged from Eni decision making in it to just see it from the third person without a vested interest without a personal interest and just say, you know, hey, I could advise the USA to make their terror war as absolutely minimalist as possible and withdraw their troops from the Middle East instead of waging the 20 year terror war and killing two million people and ruining everything for everyone for the next few generations over there, that hate, uh, you know, you don’t that sounds like Patriot talked to me, even though that wasn’t the way it was portrayed back in 2000 and two. It’s the same kind of thing I think you could be from anywhere. You could be anybody and look at Israel’s policy and say, This is quite self defeating What you guys are doing here according to your own stated goals. I mean, that’s how a Ehud Barac talks. He says, Jeez, my policy has been suicidal for our society. Yeah, well, I agree with that. You know, You know, you don’t have to be on their side. Even at Awal Thio. Recognize that they’re sabotaging their own interests. Okay, but Scott what? We study American politics, you know, American politics also it can be I mean, our Pawlyk you’re saying that’s the reasonable man’s approach, Hormuz. A reasonable woman’s approach. I agree with you. But how much sway of reasonable people had him the last 20 years in foreign policy making he’s Int Amb action and you know, globalism. And, you know, uh, inner liberal interventionism. Neo Cannes Awal these factions that basically love military interventions overseas and run out the defense budget. They’ve been pretty Wone Natta Rowda enemies. So they’re back to Russia again. So no. Yeah, I’m not trying to be too hopeful necessarily, but it’s just that at some point, the gap between the narrative and the truth. Cannes Awene Lee be so large for so long before there’s some sort of correction coming, you know? I don’t know. Yeah, which is a lot of what Trump is played on. You know, uh, I continue to believe that Trump, uh, you know, more than any Russian interference, he got elected because of war weary counties in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and, um, Wisconsin. You know, he won those states by a narrow margin. And those air three places that we’re really hit hard by these wars in terms of ah, local sacrifice and people don’t like these wars, huh? Surprise. Hold on. Just one second. Be right back. So you’re constantly buying things from amazon dot com Maor. That makes sense. They bring it right to your house. So what you do, though, is click through from the link in the right hand margin at Scott Horton dot or Ge, and I’ll get a little bit of a kickback from Amazon’s into the sale. Won’t cost you a thing. Nice Louay To help support this show again. That’s right there in the margin at Scott Horton dot or Ge. Hey, guys, check it out. Investigative reporter Ken Silverstein is launching a fund raising campaign to support his writing of a new book about Marco Rubio and effort to overthrow the government of Venezuela. This will be no defense of the Maduro regime, which Silverstein opposes. But it’s certain to be devastating to its American enemies, who are operating far outside of their constitutional purview. Helps support Kenzo effort to get to the bottom of the interest behind America’s plot to overthrow the government of Venezuela at Patriot in dot com slash d. C. Babylon. Hey, guys, you got to check out the bumper sticker dot com. You play in a band, you need stickers. Yugo the bumper sticker dot com. Maybe have a business and you need stickers. Yugo to the bumper sticker dot com They’ll take care of all this stuff. I created the company back. I don’t know, generation Goa. I sold it to Rick McGinnis. And he’s done a great job with the company ever since they got what you needed over there at the bumper sticker dot com. Now, before we get to Huu Israel’s bombing this week Ah, I wanted to point out your piece this morning about Geraldo Rivera. Oh, yeah, yeah, the Jerry Springer of my childhood, I guess. All right. He’s really grown up here something. He’s the voice of reason on Fox news. And, um, I guess I didn’t really realize this, but, uh, he’s a self identified Jewish Zionist and he said he just probably displayed his star of David tattoo, which I thought that was against the rules. But what I know about the rules, But anyway, yeah, I don’t know what I know either, but but it s so he went. So what happened was he was arguing with Andrew McCarthy from the National Review there. Who’s good on Russia? Ge Ayt and nothing else. Um and so But tell us because they were arguing about the Congress women here and it’s Fox news. Of course so the bias was baked in at a high temperature. But, hey, he’s a regular and they can count on him. He’s allowed to speak his mind on their cause. He is who he is. And so then he breaks it to them. Cem things that they don’t ever hear anybody say, I think Can you explain a little bit about how that went? I just think it goes back to the point that you made early in this discussion, which is that, um what I characterized as political upheaval. All this attention on the Rashid Atto LeBeau Moammar Banning has has caused people to open their eyes a little and ask a question. And so here you had the usual B s Hasa Baruta about Israa being such a great Democratic place. And Rivera just, you know, the best thing about what he said from my standpoint was he said, You know, I have friends on the West Bank. They can’t travel freely, they can’t even bring their relatives. And when they get married, this is an occupied country. This Congress Wone from Detroit, could not go and visit her grandmother. And then he said, Hey also said that these people have no rights for 52 years. You have 50 year old Palestinians who have grown up with no rights and the most brilliant thing, he said. In this whole whole discussion, which only a Jew can get away with some of the Jewish ancestry. I just think that if it were not Israel and it was not the Jews, if this was any other country that took this action, we would all be outraged, Rivera said. And I think he’s right. I think that Israel is always the special case that gets away with everything and because it’s got this special status in the United States because of the Israel lobby, for whatever reason you want. But no, they get away with this and he was calling him out, and I thought it was kind of great, even though he is a wild man. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I really do think that we have going for us. It does matter that, um the truth is so contrary. Typical narrative here that when people just have a chance to finally understand Hey, the reason they’re always talking about Maybe creating a Palestinian state is because there is not one. Sometimes they make it seem like it’s the country next door already, but it kind of is, but it’s also conquered and occupied. And so, no, it’s not the Palestinian Authority’s Natta government. They’re like prison trustees under the control of the Israelis and the Americans and the whole thing. And once people start understanding it, I constantly I think, the I’ve seen the the A little bit of education goes such a long way when it comes to Israel, Palestine because people just confused. Why would anyone take the Palestinian side? Aren’t they the brown, Muslim, scary terrorist side? And then when you just explain that yet no man, that’s not it. These people are being treated totally unfairly. They Goa I didn’t know that. But now that you’re explaining it to me, they’ve been under occupation for how many decades in a row. Now I see. Okay, I might throw a rock at a tank, too. These are not invaders with rocks, these air defenders. I understand. You know it’s not that hard, but you just have to have a chance to be exposed to it, you know? But that’s where I again I’m always confused Khuzai live inside this world. But you know, as you say, it’s not that hard. We’ve been having this discussion for many years. You and me, It did. It did. Didn’t take us going a grad school or going to seminars or, you know, T Ge Ain this understanding it’s a little bit obvious. Where is the consciousness, right? How Where are we? In the consciousness raising in the United States. How dumb and ignorant are people of this and certainly among the elites. They can’t be ignorant about this. They know what’s going on. Hey, it’s a crackup. I mean, this this election season. Rejoice. I mean, this is because the leftists are gonna back down on this Talaa Labott leave whatever she’s not gonna say. Yeah, forget my grandma anyway, because I see which way the wind blows here thing. This fight is not over. It’s not going to end. And Donald Trump is going to continue to ruthlessly exploit that. Everybody knows that the Democratic Party is run by anti Semites Huu Wana. Destroy is what is gonna happen with that because it is so not true. And yet even the kernel of truth in it is the kind of thing that you know is an irresistible force by the new young upstarts versus the old, decrepit establishment that has no honest leg to stand on other than we need donor money, Right? But rather than an honest assessment of the situation oh, we have to support the status quo. Where else? What? The Palestinians were gonna invade Israel and destroy it. Is that it? Well, but Scott let let’s let’s just be, ah, I want to be Wone want to sound Wone hopeful note before this discussion ends. And that is, I mean, not that this is hasn’t been a lot of hopeful notes, but one thing that’s realistically hopeful and that is you have seen Bernie Sanders and Pete Buddha, Ceku, Ge and a little bit, um, Elizabeth Warren. And I think even, um, Kirsten Gillibrand asked about Israel’s conduct, saying there should be consequences. And the Taleb Moammar thing reinforced that view. There should be consequences. So we have a real possibility that a Democratic nominee, apart from Eni caricature or wedge driving, uh, and hysteria tea party style, you know what I mean, flipping the script there. But apart from Eni Isdell areas Republicans are trying to make about Democrats in Israel. We may see on that debate stage before the convention next year we may see Democrats and guess what we believe in stripping Israel of military aid when they do this stuff. Yes, we believe that that would be a huge step if you have mainstream Democrats saying that and I think we’re starting to see that happen. And Ghad again. God bless Ilan Omarsson Ersin receded to leave for staking out a Princip filled position. Natta Radical position on, you know, human rights violation, right? Yeah. And you know, I kind of regret that it’s these two because they make pretty poor poster children for it because it makes it just seem like, Well, you know, whoever has a vested interest just argues their own side. But at the same time, it really does open the argument up for a lot of others. And I saw, I don’t know, the guy’s name, but a Democrat from Washington State or something like that came out and said, Well, I don’t know, he had a very white guy. Gnehm, I’m sorry. I don’t know what it is, but, uh, well, you know, maybe we need to call off this funding. I’m not gonna be pushed around by some little Katrin. Fantastic. And, you know, the other part of that is, you know, unfortunately or not I mean, you we we want people to care about this issue. You know, they should care for a lot of reasons. The United States, including that we’ve been in all these wars that in part because of concern for Israel’s security. But, you know, the Jews and the Zionists really cared about Israel. And Rashid Itta Leat really cares about Palestine because their grandmothers there and, you know, God bless her. And I just think that, you know, sometimes, you know, it’s it’s the engaged factions and you gotta have people engaged. As Yousef Monir says of the U. S campaign for Palestinian rights, when they say, What are you boycotting? Ah, so De Arabiya, he said. I would if there was organized boycott. But guess what? I can’t visit my wife’s family in Israel, so that’s why you know. So it’s that kind of thing that Ah, I feel that people were engaged on these questions. You know that that’s often the people are gonna lead us. And you wanted to talk a little bit about Hiran bombing the Shiite crescent lately or what? Ah, you know, um, it’s such a beautiful day here, but I do. I am really curious about I just I’m really curious about what’s going on in France with Trump saying he’s gonna maybe even talk to Rouhani. I just don’t know what is going on and, I don’t know, understand why? And I think Israel maybe going nuts right now because of that. And, you know, look what Israel did. Wone Trump said he was thinking of withdrawing from Syria. You remember that? Yeah, they just cancelled it. Yeah, he canceled that one in a hurry. So how long before he cancels this impulse on his part? So and I don’t know. I mean, I’m not willing to bet that Rouhani would even agree to go. I mean, they’ve been at this point, they said a lot of times, and their policy seems to Neo try to wait him out and see if they can get the next guy now, because you’d be crazy to be them and deal with him at this point. I mean, what is he gonna offer? How far down this ladder is he gonna climb for them at this point? You know Hadar Andrei Point Because they had a good deal. I mean, why would you walk away from a good deal? You know, Briton Eni Europa about, um, how Rand really did get the job off being the go between with the reef, the foreign minister and he offered a reef a meeting in the Oval Office with Trump Enzi. Arif said Okay, well, let me take it back to the bosses and see what they say. And before he could even get their respond, at least Trump had gone on TV and denounced Hiran 10 ways so completely ruined it. So I don’t know if somebody else put him up to that. He just did that. His own self Orif. He even knows what day it is or what is going on over there, man. But listen, we should mention real quick here, make sure and get it on the record. And people should understand this because it’s so important as we know. The Israelis have been backing Al Qaeda and Alll Id groups in Syria for many years as their government has admitted Andrei have also been outright attacking Hezbollah and so called at least Iranian targets inside Syria for many years. Right? But recently, And he can read up on this at antiwar dot com news dot antiwar dot com where Jason Ditz is on the case. But also, it’s really, I think The Jerusalem Post has been taking the lead on this, that Israel has been bombing Iraq. They have been attacking Iranian backed Shiite militias, the very same ones that Donald Rumsfeld used in his El Salvador option to fight the Sunni insurgency. The very guys that America made into the Iraqi army that still rules Arak Ki Shia stand on this day in a war that we did, at least in major part Foer not just Israel, but Netanyahu’s faction of the Likud Party on his wishes there and his Neo con friends who did this thing. And here we are, after Rakoff or two and Iraq War three, both for the Shiite side, and we have Israel bombing the guys that we put in power there. Amazing, amazing and they Ind. Netanyahu says that he’s going to start bombing the Houthis in Yemen, too, because Now, after four and 1/2 years of war, the Iranians air stepping up support for their proven efforts in the field There. So and you know, again what What is the America? What is the proper America and is much inasmuch as there is a regional power struggle between Israel and Iran. You know, what is the American place in that? Unbelievable. To think that we should be on one side and that are being so engaged in it. I just think it’s crazy. Yeah, should be sailing home is the only correct Ansar, Joost. Hey, listen, I love talking with you and Eilat Andriy Manan going every day you and the whole crew over there, so thank you very much. Appreciate it. Okay, man. Well, thanks again. I love talking to you. Okay, guys, that is the great Philip Weiss. He’s at Mondo weiss dot net. And, uh, he’s got Trump is parroting Zionist doctrine that us Jews must be loyal to Israel. He’s got political upheaval over to leave, and Omar shows the power of Bp s. He’s got, um, 50 year old Palestinians have never lived in freedom. That’s Geraldo Rivera. Defending reality from the narrative on Fox News and tons of other great stuff like that. Monta y start Nic Awal Raan Chehl Thanks, Find Me at Libertarian Institute Dot or Ge at scott Kortan dot or Ge antiwar dot com and reddit dot com slash scott Horton Show. Oh yeah, and read my book Fool’s Errand Timed and the War in Afghanistan at Fool’s errand dot us.