07/06/15 – Seamusin Reilly – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, welcome back to the show guys.
It's the Scott Horton Show, I'm him.scotthorton.org for the archives, here on the Liberty Radio Network live from noon to 2 p.m.
Eastern Time, lrn.fm, libertyradionetwork.com, and our guest today is Shea Machine Riley.
He writes at convergentinterests.liberty.me.
Welcome to the show, how are you doing?
Hey, how you doing, Scott?
Pleasure.
I'm doing real good, good to have you on the show.
We've been talking on the Twitter for a little while here, and you kind of sketched out a little bit of this argument to me before by tweet, and now you've written up this great article here, it's called, and we ran it over the weekend at antiwar.com, it's called The Ugly Truth About ISIS, A New Era of Global Terrorism, and it sounds like what you're saying is all my warnings are coming true about how, well, you start out saying, hey look, the super-duper majority, that's not your words, that's mine, but no doubt about it, the vast, vast majority, 90-something percent of the terrorism cases in the United States, terror plots in the United States since September 11th, were created by the FBI, conceived with the FBI in the first place, but you're saying that looks to be no longer the case, we're actually at a point where they have created all the enough monsters to go ahead and fulfill the role without having to entrap them, is that right?
Well, I don't want to, I want to be clear, the FBI are still up to their old gimmicks, there are plenty of cases that you see in the past couple of months where it fits the MO of the FBI's entrapment methodology pretty well, but if you look at some of the latest cases, or even if you look at some of the more successful terrorist attacks in the United States and in Europe, more actually in Europe than in the United States, you start to see that there's a new MO for these terrorists, and a lot of times it looks like they were legitimately radicalized, or maybe not radicalized, maybe that's not a good word, but they were legitimately influenced and impacted by the ISIS propaganda machine.
And now, so ever since 2011, and the start of America and its allies support for the Mujahideen war over there, you know, one of the things I've been saying on the show, of course, and my my brilliant guests, who I plagiarize to, have been saying is, hey, this is gonna go, this is gonna blow back, this isn't like the Afghan war, which blew back plenty bad in the 1980s, we're talking thousands of miles west, we're talking, you know, direct access to the Levant, to the Mediterranean Sea, to Europe, or almost, just Turkey standing in the way now, and I guess Turkey's got most of the fighters flow in the other direction, but still, we're talking a whole new generation, if Iraq war 2 wasn't bad enough, another new generation of jihadists, brought up, raised up by American foreign policy here in the Obama years, and it's just a matter of time before they start blowing up targets, and obviously Europe is easier to get to than America, but probably both, and we saw a little more than a year ago, there was the guy that shot up the, I forget, it was a synagogue, and like with an attached Jewish museum in Brussels, something like that, and he was a guy who had been to Syria, and then and fought with ISIS, and apparently the same thing for the Charlie Hebdo attack, now you're talking about, they don't even need that, all they need is Facebook, well yeah, and you know, Scott, you know, you talk about the 1980s, and the way that foreign policy kind of blew back up in her face, the difference here is the internet, you know, we particularly libertarians really like to sing the praises of all the internet's given us, but you know, Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, that was a Rolodex, you know, that was, that was a bunch of guys who knew each other way back when, who were kind of halfway communicating via landlines, but you open up the internet, you open up a whole world of disillusioned youth, and a lot of times deluded youth, who really don't know what they're looking for, or how they're going to find it, and they stumble across these hate sites, the same way we have in the US, and they get, they get radicalized, and they, and the thing is, ISIS may not be doing the radicalization, but what it's doing is it's a hashtag, and it's giving people direction, it's giving people something to look for when they go online, and it's, and it's making, it's developing an entire network all over the world.
Well, and it's preaching in its own twisted way, what they claim basically is purity, right?
This is the kind of thing that young men are attracted to, is something to believe in, and so yeah, wow, and then now they don't even have to get a ticket to Turkey, which they don't know how to get to Turkey anyway, they don't know where Turkey is, but they don't need to, and it's just as easy, and I think we've gotten off really lucky as far as having more than a dozen, and perhaps even two dozen, and again, I think this is along the lines you're talking about, not entrapped by the FBI and fooled into doing this, but legitimately recruited, and I'm talking about Somali Americans who have come from Minnesota and have gone to Somalia to fight with al-Shabaab.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they could stay here and fight for al-Shabaab, and you know, attack the Mall of America, or whatever economic target in Minnesota, without, you know, all they got to do is buy a rifle and go down the street and hit a soft target.
I'm not trying to advise anybody to do that, but I'm saying this is, our government, it's sort of like the Mark Stevens thing, putting the ambassador in the middle of a hornet's nest.
Well here, we brought our hornet's nest here.
Right, right.
Right to our own land.
And you know, I don't want to say luckily for us, because it's, none of it's a good thing, but right now, ISIS recruitment propaganda is definitely more geared towards getting people to come over there, and that's why they have it.
That's why they need it, because they want to grow their state, and they want to entice as many young people from all around the world who would be fooled by an ideology like that, to support it, but to support it over there, where they can go bleed for ISIS.
I don't see them doing a lot, saying a lot of things like, hey, go out and attack American targets, go out and attack the military or the president, but what you do see, and this is the important point that I tried to stress in my article, is that ISIS is definitely advocating the use of physical violence against non-believers all over the world, and they advocate it specifically in France and in Britain and in the US, and they advocate it as a form of retaliation.
Now, the point that I tried to make in my article is that one of the other unintended consequences of the war on terror is it's completely marginalized the Muslim population in the United States.
I mean, everybody knows, as a white man, when I walk into a convenience store and I see someone who looks like he's from Middle Eastern descent standing behind the counter, it's just a product of the times that I have to take a breath and try and rationalize my way out of the feeling that I get that he's going to try and attack me.
And I'm not saying that everyone is like that, but what I am saying is that the vast majority of Americans see Muslims in that light, and that's because George Bush got in front of the American people and he said the reason that they attacked us is because they're Muslims.
Right, yeah, because their Muslim religion makes them hate things that are innocent and good and true and free.
So, boy, we better take it to them then, because what are we going to do?
Give up virtue?
Right, and so what you have is you have a bunch of red-blooded Americans going out there with different forms of hate crimes.
One thing that's really interesting, I didn't bring it up in the article, but if you look at the hate crimes that the Muslim population endures on a year-to-year basis, it vastly outnumbers the amount of hate crimes that any other ethnic group in the country endures in terms of proportion to the size of their population.
I listed a few examples in the article, but when you have a situation where Muslim Americans don't feel welcome here, they don't feel at home here, and then their kids are growing up in the schools and they're being made fun of and all this.
I mean, what do you expect them to do?
We need to stop this and we need to get some sanity back into the country.
All right, now, so there's a lot to follow up on here.
We're about to have to take this break.
First of all, I think I kind of fell down on the job of making you prove this very extreme assertion of yours that there are any plots at all that aren't FBI jobs.
That sounds crazy!
So I'll have you give us some examples when we get back and then we'll talk.
Lots of follow-ups coming up.
It's Shame Machine Riley.
Check out his blog, convergentinterests.liberty.me, for the new era of global terrorism.
Back after this.
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My email address is scott at scotthorton.org.
All right, you guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
I'm talking with Shame Machine Riley about this article at convergentinterests.liberty.me.convergentinterests.liberty.me.
The article is The Ugly Truth About ISIS, A New Era of Global Terrorism.
And so now we got to rewind it to the beginning here.
I didn't really set this up very well.
Everybody knows I've interviewed Trevor Aronson about this.
I wish I'd written a book about it.
I was gonna write one like this, about all the bogus terrorism cases and the FBI running around and trapping every idiot into saying he loves Osama and this kind of thing.
There are very few exceptions to this that I know of.
There's a Zazie from Denver.
There's the Times Square bomber, the Underpants bomber, Fort Hood, and I think I'm out.
Maybe there are one or two more than that.
But now what you're arguing here is that this has changed.
Where, yeah, as you said, the FBI, they're still up to their games.
Oh, I left out Boston, of course.
They're still up to their games in trapping idiots and all of that.
But now they don't necessarily need to because we have recent examples here of people just going ahead and going along with their recruiters on Facebook and Twitter and this kind of thing.
Can you give us some examples to illustrate what you're talking about there?
Well, sure, Scott.
I want to start with what got me interested in the whole topic of discussion, which is a Charlie Hebdo attack, or not the Charlie Hebdo, the, what is it, the Texas, was it Garland Texas attacks?
Yeah, Pamela Geller.
Yeah, a few days after those attacks happened, Mitch Prothero over at McClatchy News wrote an article where he cited J.M. Berger talking about how this is going to be the end of the world and all the lone wolves are going to come out at Woodwork and start killing everybody.
And I immediately responded the way that anyone who's been paying attention to this would be likely to respond.
I said, this is crazy.
I don't know why this is even headline news.
The kid was alone.
He wasn't ISIS.
ISIS didn't plot this or anything like that.
And I got into a big Twitter argument with Mitch Prothero about it.
You can go look at the argument.
Just Google Shame Machine and Berger's a hack and it'll come right up there.
But so I started paying attention to what was going on.
You know, the first thing I did was I went to see what the tweets from the ISIS sympathizers in Texas really said.
And they're pretty, they're pretty explicit.
It makes a lot of sense that they were maybe not potentially motivated by ISIS, but certainly connected to them in a way where they were declaring themselves to you know, whatever it is that ISIS stands for in the virtual world openly before they committed the attack.
And then I started looking at all these terrorist attacks that keep on coming up.
And I think the main, the main difference between the attacks that are just obviously bogus and the ones that you got to take a harder look at are what it is that the FBI is accusing these guys of doing.
And the attacks, most recently, the ones in New York, not the attacks, the cases of terrorist sympathy.
Most recently, the one in New York and a few months earlier, the one in Florida.
The difference is they're going there.
They're plotting to go there.
They're plotting to join ISIS.
And that's a marked difference from the type of story that we get from the FBI cases where they say, yeah, they're planning on chopping off a bunch of heads and they're doing it for ISIS.
That doesn't make any sense.
But when you hear that these guys wanted to go to Syria and you connect the fact that the people who committed the attack in Garland, the people in Ottawa, who the guy in Ottawa who shot the statehouse there, they were all trying to go overseas.
They wanted to join the fight.
Now, the one in New York, the most recent one, the guy who was just arrested a couple of weeks ago, Allah said that he the FBI was tipped off on this guy by his roommate.
And it seems as though based on the way that the evidence is coming out, that he was already online connected to in this particular case, he was connected to some jihadi website where they were they were talking about, you know, his sympathy for ISIS, posting comments on YouTube under ISIS videos, proclaiming them, you know, God's soldiers and things of that nature.
Which by the way, these guys want to go over there to Syria to be used up as suicide bombers by the Chechens or whatever.
Go right ahead.
I think it's crazy to try to stop them.
They ought to be put on the first plane over there and then, you know, searched thoroughly first and then, you know, told that they're guilty of treason and can't come back unless they want to go to the supermax for the rest of their life.
Now that they've decided to join up with ISIS, they're exiled.
And that's a law, you know, it shouldn't be arbitrary.
But if that's what they want to do, fine.
Why keep them here?
Like you said, the guy in Ottawa, all he wanted to do was go blow himself up far away from here somewhere.
Hell.
Right, yeah.
Not that I want to see, you know, Iraqi Shia suicide bombed, but hell, better than in my neighborhood.
Well, and that's the thing, right?
So the this guy, al-Assad, he had he had taken someone to the airport a few weeks before they got him.
And I think they got him and his friend Samuel Tapaz enroute to get their tickets.
You know what, though?
One of these guys a couple of years ago was prosecuted for trying to go and join up with, I don't know if it was al-Nusra or if it was already ISIS by then, but his defense was, and his father said, it was the CIA that recruited him, or at least he believed that it was the CIA that recruited him to go to fight against Assad.
And so I mean, he's in trouble.
Yeah, I would be, I would be, I'm very interested to see the details of those cases.
It's an interesting idea that maybe we've come so far that we're going to start pretending that we're the Feds just so that we can entrap people into doing the wrong thing.
It's pretty absurd.
I don't think that we're there yet.
I don't think that it's not necessarily coming.
But yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Well, and then the other the other group, the guys in Florida that I mentioned earlier from a couple months ago, these guys are all from the steppes.
They're all from the Caucasus.
They, they all came here legally.
One of them ended up overstaying his visa.
But again, the FBI was tipped off by these guys from their activity on noted, in this case, Uzbek, a Uzbek website that was sympathizing ISIS.
And their entire operation was set up after the fact.
And another thing that you see with these cases is the ones that are legit are really open about what they're doing.
Yeah, I yeah, I want to kill Obama and I want to go overseas and I want to do all this.
Yeah, we plotted it.
I was going to go to Syria to fight in the jihad.
They're saying that they're open about it.
They're clear and it makes a lot of sense if you if you kind of consider how far we've come, particularly with the way that social media works and the way that I mean, we've already seen it.
Look at look at ISIS in Syria and in Iraq.
They're they're full of foreign fighters from all over the world.
But most particularly, you see Abdelmajid Abdel Bari, the British rapper who beat who is the suspect of the Brits.
I think he was a British rapper who supposedly was the one who beheaded James Foley just a few months after ISIS sacked Mosul and became, you know, in the spotlight.
You had Douglas Douglas MacArthur McCain.
I don't know if you remember him.
He was a first American quote, the American to die for ISIS.
He ended up dying in Syria a month after the fall Mosul.
And the you know, the thing is, God, yeah.
So the thing is, I don't know.
I don't know how much of these guys are being radicalized by the message or how much of them are just, you know, hang out for another segment, OK?
Yeah, I got you.
All right.
Great.
It's shame machine rallies that convergent interests that Liberty dot me.
We're gonna talk more about this problem, the new problem, fighting them over there and creating a problem over here because of it.
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All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
Sorry, I'm never clear on the way out to break, am I?
Not new.
We've had terrorist attacks in the United States before.
What I meant was it's kind of the next wave, the next phase of America's terror war.
Hey, wait a minute.
The new era of global terrorism.
That's the title of the article.
I should have just gone with that.
It's at convergent interests dot liberty dot me.
Shea Machine Riley, the ugly truth about ISIS, a new era of global terrorism.
And we're talking about how apparently you have more and more people, not like the numbers they would try to imply on CNN or something like that, but still who are being recruited to go and join the Islamic state.
And now mostly, as our guest is explaining, they seem to want to go over there and fight.
Well, that's good, I guess, until the propaganda on Twitter changes and they're told to hit targets closer to home.
And I got to say, I think we've been really lucky up until this point that mostly all we've had to deal with is a bunch of bogus FBI entrapment cases other than the failure of Zazie at the New York Times Square there in 2010 and some of these other things.
But it seems like matters could have been a lot worse.
You don't need a whole lot of Al-Qaeda guys or Al-Qaeda loyal guys to do some damage.
But now you keep this same policy up for 15 years running.
And what surprise is it that now the Middle East is entirely in chaos and that people who marginally could be convinced to identify with the other side are beginning to do so now.
But I wanted to get to what you were saying about the way Muslims are treated in the United States.
Because this is something that Phil Giraldi has written about a lot in the past, about how in Europe Muslim populations are much more marginalized.
They're much more analogous to Mexicans or Central American immigrants in the United States where they tend to be on average poorer and live kind of in separate neighborhoods and that kind of thing are treated more like second class citizens.
Where in America Muslims are much more likely to be upper class or upper middle class and own property and seek advanced degrees and and you know work as professionals like the Times Square Bar in fact.
And they're the kind of people who are much less likely to be so alienated from the society that they would wage war against it.
It really has put the lie to all the propaganda all the anti-Islamic propaganda over all these years about just how dangerous they are when there are somewhere on the order of three or five million American Muslims who are clearly not at war with this country whatsoever.
We're talking about the very outside margin here.
The fact it's it's the exception proves the rule kind of thing I think.
And yet at the same time I'm not really contradicting you or arguing the point that more and more they must feel more and more alienated.
Especially you know as Anthony Gregory put it years ago.
I'm sorry I'm going on so long I'll turn over you in a second.
But as Anthony put it years ago that George W. Bush used to keep the lid on all of this because he was the right wing leader alpha male up there and he would say it's not Islam.
These guys are perverting Islam.
They're a fringe group.
They're the Manson family of Muslims man.
They're these terrible crazies.
And yeah we got to get them.
But no they don't represent Islam.
But once Bush was gone that was like the lid off the pot and it just started boiling over.
And especially with a black pseudo Muslim president and everything for their right to rally against.
And it just bled all over the place to you know Muslims you know on your street corner kind of thing.
But anyway I just wonder what you think of that as far as the relative alienation of American Muslims and how much worse you think it's getting and that kind of thing.
Well I think it's a very important point that you make.
You know a lot of times these kids who are radicalized they're delusional.
They don't really understand where their place is in the world.
They're they're kids who are coming from bad backgrounds.
This isn't any different for the ISIS terrorists than it is for the gangbangers on the street or the white supremacists.
They mostly come from from you know a high high level that is going to be socioeconomic.
A lot of it is going to come from you know adverse childhood experiences.
It doesn't really matter.
And I think what's saving us is there is the relative peace and prosperity that American Muslims have because they're mostly immigrants who come here to work and make a living for themselves and get up into the middle class.
But these immigrants have children and these children have to grow up in American schools and they see what they see on TV every day.
And if they're practicing Muslims they you know you know that they're identifying with it.
You know they're identifying with all the all the people.
Now a point that I make in my article is we just had the Dylann Roof shooting a couple of couple of weeks ago.
But three months ago there were three as far as I'm concerned completely innocent Muslim American students who were gunned down and really the media stopped talking about it after a couple of days.
We we see stuff like this all the time.
We had a guy in Texas got shot just last or just a month after that.
A kid in Kansas got run down.
He was leaving his mosque and he got run down in a car.
You know he just murdered cold blood.
That's the last that we've ever heard about it.
Maybe they got the killer maybe they didn't.
But Muslim Americans don't see that.
They don't do.
There isn't the same type of outrage for for Muslim Americans that we see you know from the in terms of Dylann Roof shooting.
Now when we have an example right in front of us about how people feel when they're marginalized like that and the entire Black Lives Matter campaign that black Americans still this day feel like they have to insist that I am a man right like the signs back in the days of the Martin Luther King marches and so that you know this that's the same kind of thing right where you know people they don't even I mean right now that's the that's the big news story but most of the time oh just another black guy shot by the cops doesn't even make the local news you know right right and so that you know the thing is when these when these kids grow up and they experience this and they're trying to find themselves and their products of our public school system and they go online and they find this recruitment propaganda it's very easy to get sucked into it no matter who you are if this is the type of background you're coming from and so that's probably what we're going to start seeing as far as I can guess but we certainly don't see the same type of attitude even from the left towards towards Muslim Americans that we do towards the blacks because I mean think about it we have we have legislatures that are passing anti-muslim legislation in this country and it doesn't even get a peep right you know and and the problem with us is people who kind of see this stuff we tend to we tend to kind of see it and and want to make make light of it we want to say well you know what there really is no war on terror it's all a big phony it's all big phony ploy by the government to take our liberties and and get involved over in the Middle East and yeah there's there's a lot of truth to that but at the same time yet we we have this situation in this country saying saying that because the FBI can't do a good job catching terrorists or they have to make up all their own terror plots or you know sustain their their budgets that is a non sequitur to say that there isn't a problem in this country or that there won't be right yeah you know we have to we have to acknowledge that and really and people got it and people I want to make sure that people understand that you're not you're not trying to to play into the demonizing Muslims thing here you're demonizing the foreign policy that puts us at risk of alienating American Muslims so badly that they would side with the other side against us that's exactly right and the arbitrariness of the way that we made Isis an enemy is probably the most poignant point of discussion I mean what on earth was going on in 2013 and into 2014 when they decided you know what these people that we've been backing all this time we're gonna suddenly make them an enemy when they did nothing different the only difference was a sack the city inside a set of imaginary lines that no one was even paying attention to anyway yeah and I got a PR got too bad basically by that that's I mean that's what it was either that or they thought that was there in my my opinion at the time if you would ask me why why on earth we're going after Isis now after you know three years of them being around already I would have said well they couldn't get their war in Syria they couldn't get their war in Syria and they wanted back in the Middle East and that's the way they're gonna do it that's that was my assessment at the time well it's not I don't know it's not like they've really changed their policy since then it's just kind of in status quo mode I think back though to the motive of American whether they're entrapped by the FBI or whether there are these self-recruited types that you're talking about it's always about American foreign policy it's never a matter of you know measure of their devotion to the religion so but that's of course who you can expect the government to target will be people who are the most religious rather than the people who are most upset and then even then there's no necessary correlation whatsoever between those who are very upset about American foreign policy and violence either but to just pick on well who is who spends more of their day thinking about the Muslim religion or whatever that that those are the ones that the most devout are the ones who are the most suspicious I mean that is just a general warrant for outright oppression of you know people on a completely arbitrary basis that's a you know back where we started that's the lie that that's what this is about you know when I when I started because of George HW Bush and Bill Clinton's foreign policy in the first place that's it right there and and that's the that's the key is that we when the 9-11 attacks happened we blamed it on Muslims and then we immediately followed up with punishing all Muslims across the world with our raising of Iraq the you know the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan all of the drone strikes all over the world you know and if you're a Muslim American and you see this first they blame all Muslims then you know you come out and you say no this this isn't right this isn't true but then you see the entire Muslim population all over the world being punished for the behavior of you know certain jihadi groups well how could you not identify with that is the way I'm seeing it now I don't know I'm not I'm not susceptible to any of this because I don't identify but I can't imagine that watching you know Muslims across the Muslim world being droned to death and being bombed all over the world to just say oh you know they're attacking the terrorists or they just don't know or those are different kind of Muslim I can't see that that's the way it is well and then the question is you know if they if somebody does another Boston type attack or worse then what gets the blame Obama's inattention and lack of a vigorous enough foreign policy over there or the fact that he's continued what Bush started this whole time and that's where you know the entire argument in America basically comes down to Rand Paul versus Lindsey Graham I mean there's no one else on a level high enough to wage the argument and win it and I guess he won't so well that's the problem because he's not saying the truth the truth is our foreign policy creates this man he said it a couple of times but it's got to be clear our foreign policy creates this mess it creates the the way forward for groups like Isis to be recruiting Muslim populations all over the world these these kids are disenchanted with the West already just by virtue of them being kids and then they see what's going on in the Middle East and they see it as a symbol and now all of a sudden they want to get on planes and fly over there and and what really gets me is that that's a problem for us when we have the foreign policy that we do where we're talking about you know the the foreign affairs article that you keep bringing up embracing al-qaeda right how on earth how on earth can we even say with a straight face that we're indicting people on terrorist charges because they're going over to support yeah like I was saying that one kid he said but it was the CIA that sent me and as far as we know that's legit right I mean it could be right that's a worse you could say about that is hey that could be true maybe we don't know for a fact that it is but why not well their agenda you know it makes more sense on the face of it than anything else I mean you hear that and you're like oh well that makes yeah oh no wonder he was dumb enough you know they must use MK ultra voodoo on him nah hey we got to go man thanks very much for your time appreciate yeah all right so that is Shay machine Riley he's writing at convergent interests dot Liberty dot me we'll be right back hey I'll Scott Horton here for Wall Street window calm Mike Swanson knows his stuff he made a killing running his own hedge fund and always gets out of the stock market before the government generated bubbles pop which is by the way what he's doing right now selling all the stocks and betting on 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