I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of Antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Aaron, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and the brand new Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism, and I've recorded more than 5,500 interviews since 2003, almost all on foreign policy, and all available for you at scotthorton.org.
You can sign up for the podcast feed there, and the full interview archive is also available at youtube.com slash scotthorton show.
All right, you guys, on the line I've got Tom Woods from tomwoods.com, and of course he's the author of Roll Back and Meltdown, and he edited a really great collection of antiwar writings with Murray Polner called We Who Dared Say No to War, and I guess it's sort of like Primus Sucks or whatever.
He's the very failed podcaster, Thomas E. Woods.
Welcome back to the show, my friend.
How are you doing?
I'm doing great, Scott, and one thing that makes me happy is seeing Scott Horton at an event in Pittsburgh, which happened a couple of weeks ago that was put on by the Mises Caucus of the Libertarian Party.
Scott Horton's name being mentioned from the podium, you're not even up there yet, and people are cheering like crazy just at the mere mention of your name.
That is the world I want to live in.
That was a pretty astounding thing, and I got to tell you, man, well, I guess I shouldn't because it ain't modest, but the reality was the YouTube audio there does not capture it.
It was absolutely— That's the problem with these things, because the audience is not miked.
Yeah, no, I'm telling you— It sounds like they're cheering, but they're actually cheering 10 times louder than that.
Yeah, no, it was a madhouse.
It was like Ron Paul was getting up there or something, where people are just completely like a rock show or something.
I don't know.
It was bananas, and in fact, Heiss is almost immediately shushing them because he wants to elaborate that I'm going to do this thing with Sarwak tomorrow, and he wants people to show up for that, and so it would have even been worse, man.
It would have gone on even longer.
Yeah, it was nuts, dude.
It was nuts, and then I'm like, okay, well, now we got to talk about the Israelis killing a bunch of kids, and I got to figure out how to wind the audience down a little bit here before I get into my subject matter, because I just don't know how to get from here to there right now, so luckily, the heckler in the front row helped to kind of lighten things up and help make the transition there, but boy, that was something else.
Anyway, so thanks, and I hope you liked the speech.
I did.
I did.
I listened to it, both of us.
Jenna and I listened to it in the car, and she said to me, I'm glad we have a Scott Horton because I hold all the opinions he holds, and I can defend myself pretty well, but I can't fill in all the details, and I just sleep happily knowing that Scott has all the details.
In case I ever need them, he's got them all.
Somebody knows all the stuff.
That's true.
Well, you know what?
Antiwar.com, everybody.
That's how I know all this.
I've been associated with them all these years, and I read it every day, and that's the bottom line.
Also, I guess I get to interview all of the people I read, so that's a nice cheat.
I think you enjoy that same privilege.
Yeah.
Oh, no question about it.
I've loved Antiwar.com for basically forever, and it was so great back in ...
I remember, I think Justin Raimondo tells the story whereby Eric ...
What's his name?
I'm sorry.
Garris.
Eric Garris.
Eric, I love you.
I don't know why I couldn't think of your name at the moment, but where Eric was saying to him, we should buy the domain, Antiwar.com, and this was when the internet was really in its infancy, and Justin was kind of, yeah, I mean, I guess so.
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
Well, good thing they did.
Right?
That was pretty important real estate.
Absolutely.
I'll tell you, the first time I ever heard of it was during the Kosovo War.
My friend Shauna showed it to me, and it was ...
The logo was red, and it had ...
I'm trying to remember.
Something else made me immediately think, not just the name, but something else made me immediately think that it was communist, but whatever.
I'll read communist if they're writing good antiwar stuff.
I don't mind about that, but I said, oh, what's that communist?
She goes, no, check it out, click, click, and I can't remember what it was.
She showed me something.
First, she showed me, look, they link to Ron Paul.
Ron Paul has an archive, and they run his stuff there.
Wow, cool.
Then, click, click, and it was not posted actually on antiwar.com.
It was just, I guess, Justin had linked to it, or somebody else had linked to Abraham Lincoln, the American Lenin by El Neal Smith.
I was like, oh, wow.
These guys are not just libertarians, but they're right wing, mad as hell libertarians, and they own antiwar.com.
Huh?
Neat.
They run Ron Paul.
Wow.
Then, I didn't have the internet at the time.
I didn't really start reading regularly until about 2002, once I got a good computer and the internet and all that, and then I've been hooked ever since then.
I can still tell you which week and which month certain articles ran from 2002 that I'll never forget.
Well, I'll tell you the time, and I'm sorry if I'm derailing your whole episode here.
No, go ahead.
I like talking with you.
I think antiwar became extremely important to me.
Yes, I followed it during the Kosovo War also, because I didn't know where to look for information, but the war in Iraq, I mean, obviously, that's a major thing everybody knows about, but I took that very hard that they did that to those people, sort of in my name, so to speak.
Looking at the way the mainstream coverage was just drooling over the administration and the shock and awe campaign and all that, and we would get this grainy footage, and we'd see these big bangs and flashes of light, and just imagining the terror going through the minds of people living there at the time, it was just awful.
Antiwar.com was where I'd look to try to find any good news about what might be happening or just to find out the real truth, because I was just sick, just sick about it, and I just felt like the only people on this earth I can trust right now are the anti-Rumsfelds, and those are the people at antiwar.com.
Right.
And seriously, I mean, Justin Raimondo and Alan Bach were the two biggest and best guys right at the very start of the war there, but there's a few more too, but when I first started reading Raimondo, how the hell does this guy know all of this stuff?
He lives in San Francisco.
Geez, he had so many links, and yeah.
Yeah, he's not in D.C.
He apparently knows every neocon's middle name, and their familial relationship with Midge Dechter, and I don't know how he knows everything that he knows, but I thought I knew a lot about not just politics, but Republican politics, these GOP bastards and their drug running ways, and the George H.W. Bush, and all of that whole faction of power, and this and that.
And here Justin is coming and telling me the names of 700 important people I never heard of before who are running everything, and it ain't what I thought it was at all, and I'm just like, hey.
In fact, I tell people now.
I told, you know, Kaitlin Johnstone is the great socialist antiwar lady from Australia, and I told her not too long ago, hey, you ever get a nice rainy Sunday and nothing to do, go back and just binge and read Justin Raimondo from the W. Bush years, man.
That's where it's at.
In fact, I'd like to do that project again myself, and I've read them all already the first time.
I put the links in most of them.
And by the way, just as a small aside, I always wondered about the value of the links, because I mean, I understand why you put them in there, but every time you have, there must have been 75 links per Raimondo column.
And my concern was that 75 opportunities for people to click away from antiwar.com and not come back.
I generally don't want to give people that opportunity, even though I do want to back up what I'm saying.
So it's a battle.
Well, that's how Eric always felt about it, too.
But the way Justin and I, you know, our approach to it was if you make a claim, you have to prove it.
This is the Internet.
You have to prove it.
You can't just say Google it.
Make it a hot link to prove for your claim.
And then I could have a lot of fun with that, too, because there was a lot of stuff that yeah, those are some good old days.
So three nights a week, I'd spend three hours a night filling those things with links, like you say.
And then but it meant, though, that Raimondo was absolutely bulletproof.
And if he was wrong about anything, I'd make him fix it.
And so everything would be 100 percent correct in there for years and years and years in a row.
And him knowing all the stuff in the first place and then me making sure it's right before it goes out at night by actually filling in all of the proof.
And you know, at first he wasn't so lazy.
Later it was like he's mailing it in and I got to fix it.
But you know, usually at first he would have links for all of his most important claims already in there.
And then I'm just doing the fun part, you know.
But it does mean, though, too, that it was links to really important stuff to read.
Right.
So what made something important wasn't whether it was on our side or not.
What made it important was just whether I want you to read it or not.
It could have been, you know, Karen Katowski's article at Salon.com.
But everybody should take a look at that thing, regardless of what goofballs published it, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hear you.
Anyway.
So how are you doing, man?
Well, I'm great.
Tell me whatever you want to talk about.
I am game.
Yeah.
Well, I guess my idea was we would talk about all the big doings inside the Libertarian Party these days.
And it was, what, two years ago?
When was it that you joined?
I guess it was.
Maybe it was 2018.
I don't remember.
But 2018 or 19, I joined.
Yeah.
OK.
And it was, you and Dave are joining, and I'm going to not join because I think it'll look too much like we've got a secret plan, and we know what to do, and everybody's going to think we know what we're doing.
But we don't have a secret plan, and I don't know what we're going to do.
We want to just help to try to be a positive influence in the party and try to do something and see, I don't know.
And I just thought, well, I think it just makes too big of a statement if the three of us join together kind of a thing if we don't really know what we're doing.
So I let you guys join up first.
And then my idea for 20, I guess, no, it had to have been earlier than that because, no, I guess, no, no, no.
That's right.
Because then it was, so then for 2020 or 2019, I joined to support Hornberger.
And then, so his kind of campaign didn't go so well.
But I joined up a lifetime membership.
And then during this whole time period, and I don't want to sell anyone short, I'm not sure when it started, Tom.
But during this whole time period was the rise of the Mises caucus, Michael Heiss, and this radical, I want to say new young faction, it's not all young people, but certainly a radical new faction of the Libertarian Party and the dominant force inside the Libertarian Party from coast to coast, with some exceptions, I think is probably the best way to put it, as far as I can tell.
And so I'm here and I'm down and Michael Heiss has been flying me around the country giving speeches to these different state Libertarian Party conventions all season long here.
And everybody can find those on YouTube, you put my name in there, you just find it.
And it seems like it's going really well.
And you know, of course, our hero Dave Smith has been making the rounds.
And if you saw my speech in Pittsburgh, then you must have seen Dave's and boy, you want to talk about something special.
That was something special.
You know, John Odermatt from the Lines of Liberty said, in a few years, people are going to be lying about having been in that room.
When that happened, that was something else.
And I think the start, a new start of something really, really special going on there.
So now I just want to hear from you about what you think and what you feel and what you predict and what do you know, and what's the dang deal there, Bobby?
Absolutely.
Well, first of all, let me say that as a veteran of many Libertarian conferences, I'm not the sort to watch that many speeches because I feel like, ah, you know, chances are I've probably heard something like this speech somewhere along the line after doing this for over 20 years.
You know, some of the same themes do come up now and again, over and over.
But I made an exception because I knew the significance of this moment, that they would have that event at the same time as the Libertarian Convention of Pennsylvania.
And they did offer a slate of speakers.
And the only one that the state party was interested in having was you, as it turns out.
Because everybody, unless you're deranged, you love Scott Horton.
You just can't help it.
You know, you can dislike Woods for your deranged reasons, but you just can't dislike Scott Horton.
But anyway, so the Mises caucus held its own separate thing.
And I thought, this is going to be a big deal.
So I did watch your speech.
I already told you that.
And I did watch Dave's speech.
And boy, there were some really great moments in that speech.
But I'll say this.
The kinds of folks who are fighting for the principles of the Mises caucus are people who want to go after topics that are kind of neglected, let's say, by the two major parties, by the major media.
And it seems like at least some of the opposition that we face is from people in the Libertarian Party who are uncomfortable when they are not following the agenda of the mainstream.
So nobody is supposed to be critiquing the Federal Reserve.
Because if you're a blue pill, you would think, well, that's crankish.
I mean, maybe the Fed needs to be more responsible, but we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
That kind of thing.
But if you are skeptical of Dr. Fauci, well, a blue pill Libertarian would think, well, what's wrong with you?
Dr. Fauci is our national expert on these questions.
I mean, yeah, maybe I can slightly and not very vocally be against lockdowns, but you've got to take Dr. Fauci's advice.
So these are not the kind of people who are going to look at U.S. foreign policy and call a spade a spade and call it the U.S. empire.
They don't use language like that, because again, that's crankish.
That's not respectable.
Ted Koppel didn't call it the U.S. empire.
So why should we?
It's that kind of craving of respectability that leads to the massive missed opportunity of recent years, where they're not talking about the issues that darn well need to be talked about.
And they're not talking about them the way they need to be talked about.
And now comes the Mises caucus.
And it seems to me that for a caucus that's only been around a few years, we've got enormous momentum, tremendous success, including in fundraising, youthful energy and vigor.
I mean, I feel like maybe I'm the oldest guy in the caucus at this point.
I remember when I was the young guy at these conferences.
Now I'm the old guy at them, and that makes me happy that there's a real future for this.
And I think that in places where we don't do as well as we might like this go around, I think we're going to be ready and energized and organized for the next time in 2022.
So I feel very good about it.
And I might add, by the way, I don't know if you know this, but at the National Convention, which is going to be held in May 2022 in Reno, I'm actually speaking.
So how about that?
Very good.
And you know, I guess I'm sure you must have noticed that the LP National Twitter account has been, I don't know about getting better because I don't follow the feed constantly or anything, but they've been putting out some good stuff.
I've seen some better ones than we've seen in the past.
So I don't know if that's a regime change there or if people are just kind of coming under the influence that, you know what, let's go ahead and be a little bit bolder then.
What the hell?
Why not?
I'm not exactly sure what the explanation is, but I almost don't even care as long as it's happening.
Right.
Well, and listen, so I don't know.
I sent you the audio, but I know you're a busy guy.
I did my talk with Nick Sarwak at the Pennsylvania convention the next morning.
The speech was at the Mises Caucus event, and then the next morning was the convention.
And, you know, we agreed beforehand it wouldn't be a debate.
It would just be a discussion about some things.
And so I gave my talk about how, you know, what I'm really going for here and what I think our young friends are going for here is to try to replicate the excitement of the Ron Paul revolution.
And for me, the Harry Brown revolution, you know, that when Harry Brown ran for president in 1996, that meant everything to me.
And in fact, I remember I worked at the sub shop and the Harry Brown tip jar was overflowing and everybody hated the Republican and the Democrat, you know, Clinton and Dole.
God.
Anyway, and in 96 and 2000, Harry Brown was the epitome.
That was the best libertarian presidential candidacy.
I don't know about the numbers or whatever.
I don't care.
But it was it meant a lot to a lot of people.
And there are a lot of great libertarians today because of Harry Brown, what he did there.
And then so what Ron Paul did in 08 and 12 was that only so much more powerfully because he was in the house.
He's running in a major party campaign because he beat that crap out of Rudy Giuliani live on TV in front of everybody and show people that you can do that.
You can get up here and tell the truth.
Watch me and made a real Ron Paul revolution out of that thing and recruited millions of people to our cause in the process.
And as Dave said in that speech, he goes, all those kids, all those college kids, all those thousands of people who come and hear Ron speak.
We're those kids.
That's who we are.
We're the Ron Paul revolution.
And we're here to take over the Libertarian Party and make it into the kind of thing for people to be excited about.
And and just think, as you said, I want to know, I go ahead.
So tell me how how he responded, because I heard some people say he was she was just a jerk and didn't make any arguments, but was just his sneering self.
Is that true?
Or I try to be charitable about these things.
You know what?
Like, yeah, focus on the positive.
I would say that he's right, that messaging only isn't good enough.
And that being a part of the Libertarian Party, this is why a lot of people in the Libertarian Party are fighting and understandably so against the new guard is because they've been doing a lot of hard work.
In fact, I heard you reference this on one of your shows recently about why you joined the Libertarian Party in the first place was out of respect for these people who've been doing all the hard work all along, staying out there in the rain, getting signatures on petitions for ballot access, running for dog catcher and, you know, spending the time and doing the work just to keep our name out there at all in the in, you know, and that's a lot for the rest of us to all be very grateful for.
And I think I don't really know the extent of the new guys, but I know I mostly do media work, right?
A lot of us are essentially angry Twitterers and things along those lines.
And there's a lot of rubber meets the sidewalk work to be done here that in his emphasis was you can't just substitute one for the other here, you know, and and I guess his accusation was that that's all he sees.
And I know that Heiss would say that, oh, yeah, well, we donate a lot to libertarian candidates across this country, raise money for people not even in the Mises faction, but in from all different parts of the party and that they do everything they can to work with other people and all of those things.
So and and look, I'm like you.
I'm the old guy.
I'm sort of, you know, we're Generation X guys, and these are all millennials.
So I'm part of it, but a little bit apart from it as well.
So I'm not blaming anyone for anything.
I'm sure they're working a hell of a lot harder than I have any idea of.
But but, you know, there's a real point there, too, about what possibilities there really are, because, you know, for as long as I've known you and before that, the Libertarian Party has been like this sort of nonfunctional thing.
It's like this it is run by people or good people, but they just don't share our vision.
And and so what are you going to do with them?
And then and I'm talking about the National Party and its messaging more than anything else, because I know there's a lot of people in the state levels who've been doing a lot of fighting for a lot of good things, legalizing drugs and legalizing gay marriage and legalizing, you know, all kinds of crap over, you know, even all through this wartime and all the advancements in the police state.
They've made a lot of gains in a lot of ways, too, and they've been a big help on that.
And then so but what if the Libertarian Party was all Smithian, you know, what if it was all radical as hell and had its priorities straight?
You know, in terms of anti-imperialism and anti-militarism and all the things.
And then what if, you know, we really combined it could find a real way to make it work where we combine our ideological take with the process oriented LP members who've been there all along and know how to actually go down to the state legislature and know a couple of smart ways.
The Kansas City Shuffle was how you blackmail a Republican congressman into doing what you want, you know, and there's there's got to be things that the Libertarian Party apparatus itself could be made extremely useful for besides just, you know, running great presidential candidates and and, you know, the traditional stuff.
But maybe we can find ways to really make inroads and really radicalize the population in a way that they haven't kind of had access to that sort of messaging, you know?
Yeah, I agree.
And what nice thing about the Mises caucus is that they're not just showing up to engage in rhetoric and make better arguments and have better messaging.
They're also willing to roll up their sleeves and put in the work.
Yeah.
As they've shown again and again on the state level and with campaigns and with promoting particular issues, they're willing to put in the work.
These are hardworking people.
They don't just want to give speeches about the Fed.
They are willing to do the work.
Yeah, and they're willing to do the unity thing, too.
And this is something I've been talking about with Michael Heiss and Dave a lot about.
And we're all agreed that, you know, it doesn't have to be a takeover.
It's, you know, in a hostile like 1980s Wall Street sense or anything like that.
No, it's a merger.
You know, this is the the cavalry has arrived.
The libertarian movement, a substantial portion of the libertarian movement has decided, let's go ahead and give this a try and join the libertarian party that we've sort of run parallel with all this time and go ahead and get in there and see if we can really make the very best of it.
And I think there's every reason to expect that the vast population of the party would only be very happy and should be very happy to have all this new, young, fresh leadership that agrees with them on everything, only more so.
Right.
And it's ready to raise hell about it.
So it seems like the possibilities could be endless here.
And honestly, when you look at the priorities of the Mises caucus, they.
I don't know, they should be everybody's priorities.
They are the key issues.
They are the major things facing us right now.
And, you know, obviously, we can argue that to some degree.
Maybe you think there's one or two other things we ought to highlight.
Well, that's fine.
But the point is, there's no objection.
There can't be any objection to the like four or five things that we're saying need particular emphasis that those are unambiguously important.
And it includes foreign policy and, yes, the empire.
Yeah.
And you know what?
Dave had this great tweet where he goes, look, if you agree with us on ending the wars and in the lockdowns, legalizing all drugs and ending the police state and abolishing all corporate welfare, then we ought to all be able to unify as the libertarian movement and the libertarian party around that.
And then the first response was, you don't have to be a libertarian to agree with that.
And then Dave says, yeah, exactly.
Right.
Because if and this is what I always thought, and this is why I supported Hornberger, because he's got this great rap about how real Americanism is just that one sentence in the Declaration of Independence.
Everybody's born free because we say so.
We don't even bother proving it.
We're armed and we believe in natural rights.
That's it.
So true, distilled Americanism all the way Americanism from the Declaration of Independence.
Well, that's libertarianism.
You have to wait for Murray Rothbard to come along.
This has been what America is about all along, the land of liberty and where everything is wrong is where we turned over everything to this state to decide.
So let's just start rolling that back.
And it ought to be obvious to everyone that these are the roots of our worst social crises, you know, and just look at the economic catastrophe is happening right now.
I know you understand this stuff a lot better than I do, Tom.
But the massive amount of new debt and new money creation and new spending by the federal government after the mandatory lockdown recession of last year and the start of this whole new bubble, I mean, I have no idea how long it's going to last, but I can tell you right now that when it comes crashing down, it's going to be worse than awaited.
It almost has to be right.
It's terrifying.
Who even knows?
Who even knows?
But we will say, I mean, I don't warn about inflation because I think it's hard to predict that these days, but it's interesting to see how many mainstream sources are talking about it.
And then the other day, a reporter actually asked Joe Biden if Americans should be concerned about rising prices.
He just turned and walked away.
What is that?
What?
Why is he contemptuous of that question?
Well, he has no answer for it.
Yeah, he has nothing to say.
What's he going to say?
Don't worry about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, what difference does it make?
Like Hillary Clinton?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
But I feel I feel good about I'm happy.
And by the way, just getting back to the Libertarian Party.
Yeah, I feel good about the Mises Caucus and its chances and the success that it's having.
And these are all great things.
I don't know that it means that we're going to win a lot of elections because most Americans are not libertarian.
And I fear that some people in the party will say, well, you're not winning elections or whatever, but neither are they is the point.
I mean, yeah, obviously we know that they do win dog catcher and some state legislator races here and there.
But by and large, they don't win either.
So we need to make clear to them that it's not a matter of, well, you were having all this great electoral success until we extremists came along.
You were being boring, put everybody to sleep sellouts and not succeeding electorally.
So what on earth are you good for?
Yeah.
Oh, so this reminds me of an important point from something I did say in that talk with Sarwak in Pittsburgh was that when the people, I believe wrongfully in agreement with you here, conflate pragmatism with moderation, which, you know, parentheses what you just said, where's the beef?
If moderation is more attractive to the normals out there, then how come the normals aren't all flocking to it?
It's because they already have Republicans and Democrats that can vote for if that's if we're only a little bit different than them.
But at the same time, if I was a pragmatist who conflated moderation with pragmatism, like, yeah, we need more washed up Republican politicians that makes us look good.
You know, they know how to do TV and stuff.
Then if I had that point of view, then I could point at a lot of radicalism as being really, really, really stupid.
And a lot of it is.
And so then moderation and pragmatism get conflated together and radicalism and stupidity get conflated together when that ain't really it at all.
What it really is, is we need really smart radicalism.
And, you know, no offense to this guy, I don't know him, but I don't mean it personally, but the boot on your head or let's abolish Medicare first because that's the worst tyranny in America, or let's all dance naked on C-SPAN and try to make a fool of all of everyone here is trying to work hard and take this thing seriously.
This kind of crap would turn anyone into a moderate if that's what you have for radicalism.
And so what we need then is the counterexample.
We need to remind people and invoke the counterexamples of Harry Brown and Ron Paul, both of whom brought uncompromising principle to every question at all times ever.
And even on the brass tacks, you couldn't get them to concede a thing and yet always knew what they were talking about, always prioritized the most important issues, always cared the most about the American people for real and what was going to be good for our country.
And if that's what's going on, then we can be for legalizing, yes, all drugs.
And we can be for, yeah, bringing all of our troops home.
And all of these things in a way that is not dumb and that kind of radical, but is absolutely, obviously represents the real answers for what ails us, that what we did was we abandoned liberty and that's why we're screwed.
And so that's why we're going to get back to that.
Right, right.
And incidentally, I would say that the personification of smart radicalism, well, maybe it's not an individual personification, but I would say that the Mises caucus includes so many people who really embody that.
Because when I think about who are really, really interesting, exciting, radical, but persuasive public speakers, persuasive communicators of the ideas, it's all our people.
I don't think about think tanks or anything like that.
I think about Dave Smith, Scott Horton, people in our circles.
These are the ones who get people lit on fire with principle and a commitment to the ideas.
Whereas I think one of the big, big weaknesses of those who oppose us is they haven't got anybody inspiring.
They haven't got anybody that anyone in his right mind would even cross the street to go hear speak.
Whereas our people are packing ballrooms with raving fans dying to hear what they have to say.
Well, that's it.
I mean, we're the radicals, but we're the smart radicals.
We're the radicals who can proselytize, bring in people because we're persuasive.
We're fun, too.
We're not boring scolds saying, oh, well, this guy retweeted this other guy who's not so good.
You know, is that the party you want to be in is with the scolds?
Or do you want to be in a room that is teeming with excitement, cheering for Scott Horton and Dave Smith?
I want to be in that movement.
Yeah, man.
Hold on just one second.
Be right back.
So you're constantly buying things from amazon.com.
Well, that makes sense.
They bring it right to your house.
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So listen, I have continually missed my local county party meetings here.
I'm now in Williamson County and I keep missing it because I'm traveling all the time.
But next month I'm giving a talk and going to finally meet my local county people and get involved as much as I can here on the local level.
So I'll ask you one last question before I let you go.
What's your level of participation now and or what do you anticipate doing as a member of the party here in the next couple of years?
Well, I already mentioned speaking at the national convention.
I've spoken before many state parties over the years.
Many before their conventions and local conventions and stuff for local chapters.
And I, you know, sometimes I'll donate things to their fundraisers that they can raffle off and stuff like that.
But now I see myself, I mean, I don't do as much public speaking as I used to just because I'm tired and I really, I don't want to travel as much as I used to.
It was too much.
But I know that there's going to be a big event October 2nd in Virginia, Mises Caucus event that I will be very happy to be part of.
And I am fully intending to attend the Pennsylvania LP state convention next year to see what we can make happen then to try to do a repeat of what you guys did, except even more intense.
So I'm going to be, just because of all states to choose, I chose that one because of the contentiousness and the fighting that took place and the bitterness and the anger shown towards some of our people.
They're talking about Michael Heiss like he's a person I don't even recognize.
And I think most of the people saying these things know nothing about us, have never read a single word we've written.
You know, it's like with my podcast, it's like a rule.
The less people listen to me, the more they dislike me.
The more they know about me, the more they say, hey, that guy seems okay.
I think that's a case of that.
And as the Mises Caucus gets to be more widespread and our people are in more and more states, the people we work with on these executive committees are going to suddenly realize that the black legend about us is false.
But yeah, no, look, these guys are full of energy.
I'm glad they're here because if it weren't for them, there'd be nobody.
All right, man.
Well, listen, I know you got to go and I'm actually really late too, but thank you so much for coming on the show, Tom.
It's always great to talk to you, bud.
I love talking to you, Scott.
Thanks a lot.
All right, you guys, that is the great Thomas E. Woods, supposedly a very failed podcaster, but I'd say a pretty dang successful one.
And author of, well, I don't know, 10 or 12 books or something like that.
More than you could carry at one time, maybe.
Well, depending on how big you are.
TomWoods.com.
The Scott Horton Show, Antiwar Radio, can be heard on KPFK 90.7 FM in LA.
APSradio.com, Antiwar.com, ScottHorton.org, and LibertarianInstitute.org.
