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Sorry I'm late.
I had to stop by the White's Museum again and give the finger to FDR.
We know Al-Qaeda, Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria.
Are we supporting Al-Qaeda in Syria?
It's a proud day for America.
And by God, we've kicked Vietnam syndrome once and for all.
Thank you very, very much.
I say it.
I say it again.
You've been had.
You've been took.
You've been hoodwinked.
These witnesses are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else accepts as fact.
He came.
He saw.
He died.
We ain't killing their army.
We killing them.
We be on CNN like, say our name, bitch.
Say it.
Say it three times.
The meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world.
Then there's going to be an invasion.
All right, you guys.
Introducing Brett Wilkins.
He's editor at large for U.S. News at Digital Journal.
And he's written for Common Dreams, Counterpunch and Daily Kos and we've been publishing some of his stuff lately at antiwar.com.
One here is The Dark Side of Israeli Independence.
And To Understand Iran, Try History, Not Hysteria.
And since I just finished talking about the foundation of Israel one moment ago with Sheldon Richman, we'll get to that second.
We're going to still talk about that.
But I really like this Iran piece.
And so that's why I ran it.
Welcome to the show, Brett.
How are you doing?
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very happy to have you on the show here.
And so, you know, I like this anecdote, so I'm going to start with it.
I one time was getting my air conditioner in my truck repaired by a guy and he was saying to me, it wasn't even me.
It was him saying to me, you know, this whole thing, the only reason Al-Qaeda and them were even attacking us is all because of George Bush senior and Bill Clinton picking this fight, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, yeah, right on.
You know, that's what I think too, you know, should call off the whole thing.
And then he says to me, he says, yeah, but Iran, they just hate us, man.
They hate us.
They hate us so much.
Hate, hate, hate, hate.
And then that was it.
That was the end of the thing.
And I didn't argue with him about it because like, what the hell?
But he was sure that when it comes to them, Shia, man, they got a problem.
No point in trying to zoom in and figure out what it really is.
And you know what?
That's probably because he lived through the hostage crisis and the creation of Nightline, which would have been traumatic for anyone, right?
And, and the whole reaction and the, the disaster in the desert when the rescue mission failed and the horrible embarrassment and, and all of that for the Carter administration back then.
A lot of people have a lot of hard feelings, even from way back then.
And so, yeah, like how you argue here, but yeah, we're over 18.
So instead of being emotional, let's just look at some things that happened and maybe figure out if it's important, you know?
So yeah.
So when does history begin then on America's relationship with Iran, according to you?
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, it's ridiculous, this mentality, because I think the Iranian people, I mean, this guy clearly never been to the West side of Los Angeles or anywhere else in the United States where Iranians are living because, or even to Iran, because they're some of the most pro-American people on the face of the planet.
I mean, I think Rick Steves, who's by no means any kind of political activist, he's a travel show host.
He went to Iran and he was shocked by the treatment that he received there.
Strangers were stopping him in the street, giving him flowers, inviting them to their home.
It seems that the Iranian people have an ability that many Americans don't, and that's the ability to differentiate between government and the people of a country.
And it's, you know, the Iranians have every reason in the world to hate Americans, but they, they don't.
I mean, this is a country that never attacked us.
This is a country that hasn't attacked anyone, hasn't initiated a war of offensive wars in the 1700s.
It's just totally irrational.
And if you'll recall, after 9-11, there was even a country song.
I forget who did it now, but the lyrics were something like, Iran, Iraq.
I don't know the difference.
It's all the same to me anyway.
It seems that's what you were dealing with, with that air conditioning repairman.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's the whole problem too, is, you know, a couple of images of a burning American flag and the older, dead, scarier looking Ayatollah, who really, you know, you could have made a Halloween mask out of that guy, right?
So the fact that he was a former friend of the CIA and everything, notwithstanding, we could get into that.
But the image is there.
And as Adam Johnson has done a great job of showing at FAIR, that just any time Iran is in the news, just always the stock photo is a lady in a veil walking by this one graffiti on this one wall in Tehran that has a skull as the Statue of Liberty.
Again, only because of their crazy religion, not because America ever did anything to them or anything.
Not that that could possibly symbolize something actually meaningful to them in any way.
But just, look at these crazy people who say that we're the devil and who dress their women with black hats on.
And it's the same picture over and over.
In fact, just the other day, when Trump pulled out of the JCPOA, Johnson tweeted out, you know, asterisks, a thousand news editors warm up their picture of the lady walking by the Statue of Liberty skull graffiti thing.
And then there it was, soon enough in the comments under his tweet, everyone was showing, yep, here it is in the New York Times, here it is in the US News, here it is at the BBC, here it is all over the place.
Just to me, you can't talk about Iran without showing that same image over and over again.
Like, seriously, who's in charge of this thing?
I mean, I know there's laziness is in charge, first and foremost, but still, I think it'd be a little creative, you know?
It's the same.
I think there's a similar mural in Havana they like to show all the time whenever they do a story about Cuba.
And it's the same as when they show these military parades of these other so-called aggressive nations that haven't attacked anyone in 50 years.
In the meantime, the United States has intervened in how many countries over that period?
It's just standard procedure when you're trying to demonize and dehumanize an enemy.
Prepare the field for battle, which we've been doing in Iran since, oh, well, I mean, if you go back to the failed rescue attempt, but definitely concertedly since the days of Bush and Cheney, when they actually discussed a false flag attack using US Navy SEALs disguised as Iranian patrol boats to attack tankers and American warships.
In order to set the stage to get rid of your enemy, you have to make them into an enemy first.
And like I said, it's amazing that through it all, the Iranian people remain staunchly they love Americans.
Well, I mean, they're smart enough to observe that.
Americans don't know the first thing about it.
And so, I mean, especially, I'm kind of grateful for like international CNN and whatever, because I think people around the world see that and they go, oh, this is what they tell Americans to think?
Geez, no wonder, you know?
God, they must be terrified.
So, yeah, now, well, I don't know.
Let's go back to the end of World War II, because it's Persia.
It's been other empires' sphere of influence, never ours.
So then what changed?
So World War II is interesting, because if you go back before World War II, it was the British who were all up in there.
They were the Anglo-Iranian or Anglo-Persian oil company, which is known better today as BP.
During World War II, you had a transition, I think, I mean, I'm not a historian, but I can't really recall a time in history where the mantle from one dominant empire to another transferred peacefully, but it happened.
And part of the reason why is England was bogged down and, not defeated, but bogged down and their resources were depleted after the war.
The United States moved in and supported the Shah, who I'm sure your listeners are well aware of, the right-wing monarchy who, after Mohammad Mosaddegh was deposed, Mohammad Mosaddegh was the first and only, I believe, democratically elected leader of Iran.
He was by far the most popular leader in the most popular government Iran knew, but he moved to nationalize some industries.
They accused him of being a communist.
He wasn't.
I mean, the Iranian Communist Party was dead set against his rule, but he had to go.
And President Truman at the time refused, but President Eisenhower, the British, the CIA, which was run by one of the Dulles brothers, I believe it was Alan Dulles, and the other brother was a partner at a law firm that represented Anglo-Iranian petroleum.
So Mosaddegh had to go, and he did go, and he was replaced by, they went from the most popular leader they ever had to a detested monarch, unless you're a part of the tiny elite in Iran, who ruled by fear, who ruled by torture.
His internal security force, the SAVAK, was partially founded, I believe, by the CIA.
It was definitely trained and funded by the United States, who taught it all kinds of nasty torture techniques.
This lasted for decades until people had had enough, and in 1978 they rose up, and everybody's familiar with the events of 1979, the 440 days of the hostage crisis.
Well, no, I mean, I don't think everybody's familiar with that.
I mean, especially, you know, it's the future now, and young people are old enough now to learn this stuff for the first time in a lot of cases here.
And one thing, I mean, if people know that, you know, the government fell and there was the revolution in 79, I think this is important, and I forget if you mentioned this in your article or not, but the CIA and the State Department advised Jimmy Carter to go ahead and let the Ayatollah come to power, because the Shah's government was falling apart and he was sick with cancer anyway, and the whole gig was up.
And they said, we know this guy from 53.
He helped us to overthrow Mosaddegh, or, you know, was in on that with them.
And they said...
Interesting, I did not know that.
Oh, yeah.
That makes sense.
They had Saddam Hussein on the payroll in the 50s, and they had, well, we can go through a long list of that.
Yeah, but so what happened was, though, is David Rockefeller convinced Zbigniew Brzezinski to convince Jimmy Carter to let the Shah into the U.S. for cancer treatment.
And that was what caused the riots and the seizing of the embassy and the hostages.
But that was like three days later.
And so we look back at it now as one big thing, when in fact, the revolution, I mean, I always wondered when I was a kid, I actually saw footage of the Ayatollah getting on the plane in Paris to go fly back to Iran.
And I remember, I think, asking my teacher or somebody, whatever the context was, like, well, how come...
Wouldn't the French ask the Americans whether it's okay to put this guy on the plane or not?
And of course, the answer was, yeah.
And the Americans had said, go ahead.
It's interesting.
I did not know that.
And it seems like these kind of situations often repeat themselves.
If you'll recall, Bahrain, they had a leader who needed some medical care.
It was in Yemen.
I believe it was Yemen.
And even despite Obama's executive order barring human rights violators from entering the United States, what a joke that was, they let him in and it precipitated all kinds of nastiness over there as well.
But I didn't know that about...
I did not know that the U.S. actually had backed Ayatollah.
I mean, we backed Pol Pot at some time.
We backed Franco.
We backed a lot of nasty people throughout the 20th century.
And it doesn't surprise me, actually.
Yeah.
So, all right, now, I think as listeners to this show already know, Bob Perry was the one who found the evidence for this, that Jimmy Carter had given Saddam Hussein the green light to attack Iran in 1980.
And then, of course, as we all know, Ronald Reagan followed up and continued that policy and even sent Donald Rumsfeld over there to negotiate arms sales that eventually included chemical weapons even for use against the Iranians in a horrible war.
I mean, people almost, I guess nowadays, maybe forget that there was an eight-year war there, the Iran-Iraq War, in which somewhere between 500,000 and a million people were killed.
But anyway, that's probably...
I bet the Iranians and the Iraqis don't remember or care about that.
I mean, if I could remember it, and I was born in 1974, that was one of my earliest memories.
Every night on the news, they'd have two little tanks with a little flag facing off against each other.
And, yeah, I'm sure they've definitely not forgotten it, if I can remember it.
And I was only four years old and not even there.
Yeah, no, I mean, I remember that, too.
In fact, you know, The War Nerd, by the way, for people who are interested in this, The War Nerd has a very amoral but very interesting write-up about that war, which he calls just the most exciting war to happen post-World War II, as far as that goes.
It had air battles, it had sea battles, it had these massive land attacks, this and that way, and whatever.
And it was, for a war nerd, very exciting stuff, you know, the way it all played out over the course of chemical weapons attacks, backed by the American superpower satellite data and whatever.
It was a big deal in every way.
And of course, Ronald Reagan also sold missiles to Iran.
You know, less so.
He supported Saddam more than the Iranians.
But anyway, still, yeah.
Yeah, we did have that little Oliver North incident now.
How ironic is it that the spokesman for good guys with a gun is someone who was convicted for trafficking weapons to a, quote, terrorist regime to fund another terrorist organization?
And, you know, I saw a thing this morning where Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the detestable Democratic congressman, said the NRA are basically close to a terrorist group.
And I was like, well, because she's got police power, you know, somewhat.
I mean, that really matters for her to talk that way.
And I clicked on that.
And then it was in response to Oliver North saying the kids from the Parkland attack, as bad as they are on gun control, that they are like terrorists.
And it's like, dude, yeah, I don't like Oliver North.
What an idiot.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's exactly how to marginalize law-abiding citizens in the worst way right there.
Like who decided to hire the worst right-winger to be the spokesman for gun owners?
Like, you have to be a right-wing nut to own a gun or something.
You have to be.
And the worst kind, there are good kinds of right-wingers, lots of them, but not that kind.
Yeah.
I don't know where you stand on the spectrum, but I know your site's Libertarian, which I find that the Libertarians and the left have a lot in common.
I mean, half the time you all sound genius, and the other time, half the time you sound crazy.
It's the most important issues facing the world, which are issues of world and peace.
I mean, I've been reading your site for 10, 12 years now, as I do my own research, and I could have sworn it was a left-wing site.
I guess I didn't, you know, I just noticed all the articles are so peace-oriented.
Yeah.
Pat Buchanan writes for us, too, because we're a single-issue thing, war only.
And yeah, you know what?
It's just like bikers and skaters on the vert ramp.
You guys are crazy.
No, you guys are crazy, but you know, we're still friends.
Saving the world.
Yeah.
So, yeah, now, and there are, you know, the American Conservative Magazine has got 15 years.
They're celebrating right now 15 years of being, you know, perfectly anti-war on everything this entire time.
Yeah.
They had a great article that I used every time I get in an immigration debate with my right-wing family.
They had a great cover article called Hispanic, the myth of immigrant crime, and it was, that's when they caught my attention.
I was like, wow, this is a rare publication that doesn't, you know, I was going to say something controversial that doesn't fit with the base, but.
Yeah.
Well, and you know, like Daniel Larrison, I mean, this is a, it's a tangent, but it's an interesting tangent to talk about.
Daniel Larrison daily is one of the best American journalists on Yemen, period.
I mean, there's only very few who care to talk about it or cover it at all, but he's, you know, writes daily outrages about, you know, the war in Yemen.
So Daniel Larrison.
I got it.
Yeah.
He's really great there.
Anyway.
So, yeah, no, I'm, I'm a, as a libertarian and, and especially as an antiwar.com guy, I'm a anti-partisan.
Partisanship is absolutely, I don't even have a side to be on the side of.
It's the only issue thing, you know.
I went through the 2016 election and I've been, I covered Donald Trump rallies, I covered Bernie Sanders rallies, I covered Hillary Clinton rallies, and let me tell you the most rabid reactions that I witnessed during that election, the nastiest things that I witnessed were at Hillary Clinton rallies.
When I told them that I can't vote for a candidate who supports war, I can't vote for a candidate who supports child soldiers, as in the Child Soldier Prevention Act waivers, the reactions are, I don't know anything about the world, I'm stupid, I'm destroying the country.
It was worse than anything I ever saw at any Trump rally, by far, and I have no love for that guy either.
Yeah.
Seriously.
I hate to say that power corrupts and power makes people stupid, but partisanship has got to be the most mind-deadening phenomenon.
It's just sickening, you know, how easy it is to get people to just, you know, I got a fun one.
Yeah, the UN, I don't like the UN, because it's not pro-active enough on starting this Iraq war, when the entire right-wing critique against the UN for generations was that it caused trouble, and that it created mandates for America to intervene where it shouldn't be intervening and causing trouble.
And then in an instant, yeah, they're in our way when we're trying to start a war, yeah.
You're so anti-world government, dude, just pushing one out of the way so you can be it instead.
I see, OK.
Anyway, let's talk more about picking on Iran.
You wrote this great article about it.
So you mentioned there what Seymour Hersh talked about there.
It was a proposal.
I don't think they really planned it out or, you know, had any kind of okay to do it.
But, you know, this was credible reporting, and go ahead and elaborate about that again, would you?
Well, because it was only, you know, something that was discussed in Dick Cheney's office, apparently that's where it happened.
But I, you know, the thing about in our line of work is you can't go too much into things that didn't happen or that you don't know too much about, because, so I just knew that it was one of the many false flag, Operation Northwood comes to mind, when they were going to, and some of them are ridiculous, they were going to detonate a nuclear explosion in the atmosphere above Cuba to make Cubans believe that the second coming of Christ was nigh because Jesus was mad at Fidel Castro.
I mean, these are things you, you know, these are definitely things that were discussed, but more importantly, the things that were done.
I mean, supporting the MEK, let me see if I can do this, the Mujahideen al-Taq, which is a baluki Marxist terrorist group that assassinated six American officials in the 1970s and 80s and was exiled in Iraq and was very useful to the United States for sabotage, reconnaissance, and other missions inside Iran.
There's the attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists, there's the sabotage, the Stuxnet attack.
These are all real things that we've done, not to mention it was an accident, but shooting down a civilian airliner with 90 passengers on board.
So there's been plenty of real action against Iran.
Actions that, if committed against the United States or Israel, would certainly be considered grave acts of war, punishable by a massive retaliation.
And so, you know, and we accuse Iran of being an aggressor, because they support a couple of terrorist groups in, you know, Hezbollah and Hamas, but I mean, how can you point the finger when, you know, I mean, I believe the United States government is far more of a state sponsor of terror than Iran could ever be?
Well, no question about that.
I mean, you know, if you're counting.
You know, another thing here that's really important about the Bush Jr. years is, you know, in 2007, when they actually just completely forgot to accuse them of having a secret nuclear weapons program for a little while, and instead focused on blaming Iran for everything that was wrong in Iraq War Two, and claiming that every bomb that was ever deployed by a Shiite fighter must have come from Iran, and then even therefore, must have come from the Iranian government when neither was true.
And it was proven a thousand times over, those bombs were being made by Iraqis in Iraq, by the Shiite side.
But anyway, and that was, you know, almost a pretext for strikes against, not nuclear targets, but against Quds Force targets, Revolutionary Guard targets inside Iran, which they would have, you know, hoped to use to escalate then into a full-scale war.
And it was the Admiral, who was the commander of Central Command, who was basically insubordinate, Admiral Fallon, who publicly said over my dead body, we are not doing this.
And that was it.
And he forced the President and the Vice President to just forget about it.
And then later, you know, a few months later, and they had delayed it, but the National Intelligence Council, all the American intelligence agencies, put together the NIE, that said that no, they don't have a nuclear weapons program, and they haven't even been researching it since 2003.
And that was basically, you know, the deep state telling the civilians, screw you, we're not doing another one.
So sometimes it's good we have this standing army.
Sometimes it's bad, you know, in terms of checking the ambitions of those with the political power back in D.C.
Things could have gotten a lot worse then.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's good when all 16 intelligence agencies agree on something, and sometimes it's not.
Yeah, exactly.
So I'm not sure.
You know, that's the one thing I always use.
I was tending, you know, I mean, I think it's ironic that through all these decades, you know, the conservatives always pointing the finger at Russia, now Russia could do no wrong.
I mean, I do believe they did what every other country of that stature would do.
But it's so interesting to see that, you know, they say there's consensus of the intelligence agencies.
Well, the only other time I ever heard consensus from U.S. intelligence agencies was when they all agreed that Iran did not have, nor was trying to develop, a nuclear weapon.
And additionally, Denny Gantz, the retiring IDF, Israeli Defense Force intelligence chief, said the same thing, as did, I believe it was, Olmert.
And so this whole notion that Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons is just another thing that we went back to earlier, showing that, that Statue of Liberty skull mural.
It's just something else to keep us on that footing.
So, you know, to have a veneer of legitimacy when the time for attack comes.
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Well, and then you have, you know, there's always been, you know, whatever kinds of hacking and this and that, but at least they say, don't they?
That the Obama Stuxnet attack against Iran was, you know, the first real state cyber attack and set a whole new standard, you know, kind of like the use of nukes or the use of drones and bringing a brand new weapon really into play.
And of course it got loose, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yes, it did.
And is it determined for sure that that's a hundred percent?
Was it Israel?
Israel involved in that somehow as well?
Well, yeah.
Now I'm trying to remember who did the documentary about it.
Was it Frontline that did the...
I'm sorry.
I don't remember who did the documentary about it.
Were they...
Oh, maybe it was Alex Gibney or one of those guys.
I'm sorry.
I'm completely blanking on the footnote here, but there's a documentary about this where what they say happened was, or maybe this was even David Sanger in the New York Times.
No, I think it was a documentary.
Anyway, yeah, it was some kind of documentary.
And they say it was the Israelis were like invited in on the program and they tampered with it and that resulted in it being, you know, basically adulterated and ruined it and got them caught, you know, caused the problems.
And before that it was working kind of thing.
And that was what caused it to get out of control.
Yeah, it's all fun and games until you get caught.
Sorry, I should...
Can't believe I can't remember what...
You know what?
In the show notes, the great editor Damon will have found the link and the documentary I'm talking about, I bet.
All right.
Now, Obama was Obama the Great for one day, though, when he passed this nuclear deal, but now it's over already, or American participation in it is.
So what do you think that's going to mean?
You know, I think the more important thing is John Bolton is now, you know, in the top national security position in the United States.
So that combined with the abrogation, unilateral abrogation of the deal, it does not bode well.
However, I'm not so sure.
I mean, the rest of the world is not on board once again.
The rest of the world's not on board.
I don't know how much appetite or ability they have right now with all that's going on to deal with this.
But I mean, it's definitely not...
It definitely seems we're heading down a dangerous road again, once again, which is back to the norm.
Like you said, Obama was Obama the Great for a day.
But you know, he was menacing, constantly menacing, threatening to attack Iran.
Hillary Clinton threatened to, she said we could, the worst use was obliterate or annihilate one of those, Iran, and actually sending covert operations, supporting the MEK and the assassination of the scientists.
So we still have a way to go before we even get back to that level of hostility, but we're on the road toward it again, it would seem.
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I really don't see much of a plan now what's going on with some of our policies against ISIS and whatnot But again, I mean if you don't start I can't say that on the air If you don't start any trouble, there won't be any trouble.
So we just need to learn that lesson stop intervening everywhere I mean how many countries now are we intervening in?
Yeah And you know what if you just put aside all the hype and slogans about world Leadership and all this stuff for just a minute and just ask him just put yourself in the other position either if you were in Iran all this time as America's foreign policies were this that and the other thing concerning your country and Or if it was the Iranians doing it to us here in America Because they had all the power and we were the you know, third world state or second world or whatever type state there You know You just see the the horror of the whole thing all along Right if the ayatollah overthrew our president installed their dictatorship in our country Did you think of anything worse than that?
But we write that off Americans write that off like yeah, you know, that was a thing that happened, but you know So different were exceptional don't you know?
I mean the concept of universality is completely lacking here It's like yeah, you know I even how you can got an argument with someone the other day who's claimed that you know I was trying to say how we did not necessarily need to drop two nuclear bombs on Japan that Japan was close to you know They were broke and broken and ready to surrender And and this this younger person I was arguing with said that oh, we didn't drop nuclear bombs on them We dropped atomic bombs on them It's just like no matter what America does the same in Israel that eight month eight month old baby girl who reportedly died of bomb tear gas inhalation in Gaza Deny Israel's denying that and it's the same thing.
The United States has been doing since day one It's a settler colonial thing actually actually because I mean every settler colonial Foundation myth, you know has to ignore the presence of the people that they're you know Getting rid of to make their new land.
So it's Yeah, we don't get the concept of universality So if that you know, it's that's what I always tried to say all these years Imagine if someone was doing this to us, how would you feel it blank stares every time?
Yeah yeah, I think that was one things that Ron Paul really got a lot of headway, he gave this great speech, but people kind of Remixed it and put music behind it and put it on YouTube and this kind of thing and it's simply just What if the Chinese invaded and occupied, Texas?
And then in fact, I think one of the YouTubes was some other guy very dramatically reading the speech but and then he just basically describes Iraq war to only with the Americans as the Iraqis and the Chinese as the occupation troops and somewhere in there is like And meanwhile the whole time they say no, don't worry We're only here doing this because we love you so much and we're taking good care of you and rebuilding your society the way it Should be and and and how how impressed we would not be by that, you know I mean, come on you think about that for a minute It's actually shocking right?
Like if you have an imagination good enough to really think about what that would be like boy And I'm from Texas.
I'll tell you what it'd be a total war is what it would be like And we all saw Red Dawn growing up, right Yeah, they're not terrorists their freedom fighters and the Wolverines, right?
But I mean if we lived in a truly democratic society with full access to information Ron Paul would have at least been by now Multiple times the Republican nominee for president if not president or in a really democratic society He wouldn't even have had to run as a Republican.
I have great confidence like Bernie Sanders that you know He would he she would have been president by now But the same forces that stacked up against candidates on the left are the same forces and the Do the same thing that people the real alternative that we were offered like Ron Paul.
Mm-hmm.
That's a shame that's a shame that he's gonna go through the grave never having risen to the level that he should have because And it seems like it's ironic, but it's actually not ironic It's perfectly straightforward that even if it was just up to the enlisted men judging by their donations.
He would be the president Mm-hmm, you know Absolutely, I mean you want to Put a bumper sticker or a ribbon on your car Was to support our troops Yeah The best way to support our troops is by not sending them to kill and die in in wars of imperial aggression in the first Place and he got that.
Yeah, absolutely Yeah, one of the few Republican congressmen to vote against Iraq war two.
I think Duncan from Arizona is the last one left there and he's Congress that voted against the war in Afghanistan Barbara Lee.
Yeah across the bridge in Oakland, right?
Yeah, Ron even voted for that one.
Yeah, I think against his better judgment, too All right.
Listen great interview really appreciate it.
Keep writing and sending me articles.
I'll run them awesome.
Thank you so much Scott All right.
Thank you, man.
Appreciate it later all right, yes, that's Brett Wilkins and he's been writing for digital journal common dreams counterpunch and Even daily coast Wow imagine them publishing stuff like this.
I wonder huh?
This one is called to understand Iran try history not hysteria and you know what we went on about a lot of things But we forgot to talk about this article maybe another time, but it was a good one It's in the right margin there.
You'll find it the dark side of Israeli independence All about the knock but there on this knock of a day, I guess is yesterday today.
All right.
Anyway, thanks you guys Brett Wilkins check them out on anti-war calm All right, you guys know the deal fool's Aaron us for the book Scott Horton org and youtube.com Slash Scott Horton show for all the interviews 4,500 of them now going back to 2003 for you They're read what I want you to read at anti-war Calm and at Libertarian Institute org and follow me on Twitter at Scott Horton show.
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