04/13/16 – Malik Jalal – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, y'all, Scott Horton Show, I'm him.
Sign up for the podcast feeds at scotthorton.org.
And introducing Malik Jalal.
This is the spotlight article today on antiwar.com.
This unbelievable piece running in the independent, independent.co.uk.
I am on the kill list.
This is what it feels like to be hunted by drones.
Welcome to the show.
Malik.
Greetings from Texas.
How are you, sir?
I'm doing very well.
Thank you.
From grace of God.
Well, thank you very much for joining us.
I really appreciate it.
I guess my first question would be if you could explain where it is you're from and why it is that you believe that you are on the kill list.
My name is Malik Jalaluddin.
I'm a tribal elder from North Huzaristan and my village is Kani Rogha Manzakhel.
I'm a member of North Huzaristan Grand Jirga and North Huzaristan Peace Committee.
And for a decade, I've been playing this role of a peace negotiator between the government and the other factions in the North Huzaristan area.
Since the inception of drone strikes program in North Huzaristan, I've been very vocal against the program and have been speaking in favor of protection of my people.
I have been visiting most of the strike sites, helping the victims, clearing the bodies and also being very outspoken against the United States drone strike program.
And I've personally been targeted in several strikes where I just missed being targeted myself.
That's why I believe I am on that kill list, which President Obama has made.
Okay.
And do you have any association with any militant groups that the Americans might be, you know, at least officially targeting, like the Taliban?
Or is it just this peace committee that seems to be the problem?
No, sir, I'm not a member of any banned organization or any militant organization.
I'm a tribal elder representative of my people, which are thousands of people.
I play a very vital and important role for peace and maintaining of peace in North Huzaristan area.
The only affiliation I have is with North Huzaristan Peace Committee.
And it was because of that work that I was targeted so many times and because of which I was forced to leave my area and forced to leave leading my people from North Huzaristan and I had to migrate out of Huzaristan in 2013.
And since then, because of the threat of being killed in a drone strike, I'm living away from the area.
Okay, now, I'm sure this must be very difficult for you, but could you please briefly describe the various attempts on your life?
Yes, I have seen a lot of attacks, I have seen them from a distance of 2-3-4 km, I have also seen missiles being fired, and when I went there to help people and bury the bodies, I also saw that.
But I was absolutely certain that this attack was going to be on us, but I was not sure that it was going to be on us.
I was absolutely certain that this attack was going to be on us, but unfortunately it was on other people, on Harib people.
One of them was in Datakhil, he was going to Jhargha, he was attacked there.
And when I was coming from Datakhil, he targeted another vehicle on our way, and the windows of our vehicle were broken.
There have been several strikes that I witnessed firsthand, and most of the time I would be a few kilometers away from them, and sometimes I would actually see the Hellfire missile coming out of the sky and attacking areas.
But there were about four or five strikes, particularly where I was targeted, and one of such was on a Jhargha, which I was supposed to be attending, and I was running late a few minutes, and I was only a kilometer away, getting in my car, that I saw that Jhargha was being targeted, and four of my other colleagues, who were also peace negotiators, they got killed in that.
There was another time when I was traveling in my car, an SUV, and there was a similar SUV, same make, same model, same color, a few meters behind me, and it was targeted.
And people who were in that SUV, they were ordinary villagers from my village.
They were not people of any importance or interest to the United States.
They were not even militants.
They were just day laborers.
So I assumed the target was myself.
Another such occasion was when I was invited to another friend's house for dinner, and when I was to reach that place, I just gave a call to my friend, saying, I will be there in a few minutes.
And then that house was targeted, and the only person that was killed in that house was the servant of that house, who was a poor guy once again, not a threat to the United States, not a militant.
So it's very clear that I was the target of that strike.
And now, do they target the other members of the North Waziristan Peace Committee as well?
It seems like it's the opposition to the Taliban who are getting the brunt of the force here.
Did they target any other members of the North Waziristan Peace Committee?
Yes, there were other peace negotiators who were targeted as well.
For example, that Jirga strike I mentioned.
Four of my other colleagues died that day who were peace negotiators and actually senior than me.
After their death, now I'm the senior person who is working as peace negotiator.
But they're the ones who were targeted in that.
It's basically the United States, which is against peace in Waziristan, and they did not or still do not want issues to be resolved among us through negotiation.
Right.
And yeah, I'm sorry I misspoke a little bit there.
That is what I meant.
Not necessarily the opposition to the Taliban, but those who are willing to, it sounds like, negotiate with them to the degree that the war could actually be ended, perhaps.
This is what he answered in his question.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I'm sorry about the mess up there.
I just want to make sure that we're clear on that.
So now, well, are there any al-Qaeda guys around?
Any Egyptians or Saudis or Arab friends of Osama bin Laden still running around in Waziristan?
Well, you know very well where most of the al-Qaeda people got arrested from.
No one was really arrested from Waziristan.
A lot of lieutenants of Osama bin Laden were arrested from Karachi and Lahore and other big cities like Rawalpindi.
And you very well also know where Osama himself was captured from.
That's not Waziristan again.
That was Abbottabad.
So all these cities had nothing to do with Waziristan.
I don't think there is any Egyptian or Saudi or any of that sort in Waziristan.
Now it's not possible because there's a Pakistani military operation which has just ended.
And according to Pakistani military declaration, they have cleared the area of any threat.
So the drone war in Waziristan then is only against the Pakistani Taliban and those who would negotiate with them?
So the drone war in Waziristan then is only against the Pakistani Taliban and those who would negotiate with them?
Absolutely.
It's against the people.
I have already told you about al-Qaeda.
It's possible that some of the al-Qaeda people have been killed in the drone war.
But all the attacks that I have seen with my own eyes, the 27 attacks that I have seen with my own eyes, I have gone there, I have arranged for it, I have taken the wounded to the hospital.
So none of them were al-Qaeda or the Taliban.
It is, in my view, it's a war against the people of Waziristan.
There might be a few dozen al-Qaeda-associated people that the US would have killed in these strikes.
But the majority of people that have been killed, they are ordinary people of Waziristan.
I am an eyewitness to 27, at least 27 drone strikes myself, where I went to the scene, cleared the debris, took out the victims, and the injured ones, took them to the hospital.
Not even a single strike involved anyone from al-Qaeda or an outsider for that matter.
The strikes have been focusing and terrorizing the people of Waziristan.
Hundreds of thousands of people of Waziristan lived under drones for a very long time, and their life was miserable under these.
And now, maybe this is a question for the lawyer from Jen from Reprieve.
How is it that someone who is on the CIA's kill list is able to get into the United Kingdom?
Jen is not in the room, she's gone.
Oh, okay.
Well, you're the translator, perhaps you guys have tackled this one before.
Do you know how someone who is on the CIA's kill list is able to get into the UK?
Scott, I'm acting as a translator, but I am Malik Jalal's lawyer, so you can ask the question.
Okay, I understand.
And then he mentions in the article as well that the drone strikes radicalize more and more people rather than calming them down, they just make matters worse for the future.
Could he elaborate on that point?
You want Malik Jalal to elaborate, or myself?
Yeah, well, him, please.
Or you two, you can add your two cents if you want.
Malik Jalal, what do you have to say to people who are being terrorized by drones?
What I have to say is that I have seen people who went to foreign countries to work, but when the drones attacked their homes, they all became terrorists.
Obama says that this is a weapon against terrorists, but we say that this is a weapon against terrorists to increase terrorism.
Yes, of course, that's the situation.
It is extremely counterproductive, and there are many strikes where I've seen where the family had nothing to do with militancy or fight against Americans, and after their loved one was killed, half of that family would be extremely radicalized.
There would be people who would be going on with their lives, business people, workers working in other cities and other countries.
But once drones hit their family, it's a strong family culture, society, strong family ties, and one person being killed from that family in an unjustified manner brings many people of that family to fight against Americans.
This is the counterproductive part which the U.S. has to understand.
Okay, and I guess this will be my last question, and I'm kind of sorry to bring this up, but it's in the article, and I think it's important because honestly, Waziristan is just so far away, it's hard for Americans to see why they should care, honestly.
And I was wondering if he could tell the story about sleeping outside and his six-year-old son wanting to sleep outside with him because of the fear of the drones and the rest of the story of his family and their fear.
He's saying that Americans are so far away, they don't know anything, so they're not worried.
But if you could tell us how it was when you were in Waziristan, how difficult it was.
You had to sleep outside because of the drone attacks, and your son used to come with you.
What was difficult for your family, and when you left home, what was difficult for them?
When the drone attacks started in Waziristan, our children's education was ruined.
They didn't go to school, they were afraid that a drone attack was going to happen to them.
Our culture was ruined there.
When things get out of hand, 200-300 people gather together and make their own decisions.
But when the drone attacks started, our education was ruined, our children became mentally ill.
According to a survey, more than 400,000 children in Waziristan have become mentally ill.
Similarly, our mothers and sisters cry day and night.
When we were sleeping at home, there were always drone attacks.
So I left my home at night and wanted to go somewhere else.
I thought that if I become a target at home, my little children and my wife and brother will become targets.
One day, my youngest son, who is seven years old, went out with me at night.
I told him to go to sleep at home.
The American drones don't say anything to you.
He said that he saw with his own eyes that he had targeted many small children.
So how can I stay at home?
It ruined my life in Waziristan.
The situation in Waziristan is as bad as it was when the drone attacks started.
Our weddings have been targeted, bakeries, schools, name anything, and that pattern of life has been targeted.
There was no communal life, no social life left.
We wouldn't be even able to hold our jirdas to negotiate and consolidate issues.
So the whole pattern of life was destroyed.
I personally was living under this fear because, as you know, I've been targeted so many times.
There were too many drones flying overhead.
So in the evening, I decided that I should not stay at home because if the US wants to target me, they might actually end up harming my family as well.
So I went outside and slept under the tree.
Seven-year-old son of mine, Hilal, he came after me and he also wanted to spend the night there.
And when I said to him, don't worry, you can go home and sleep there because they wouldn't kill the child.
And he answered back saying, how do you know, father, they don't kill the child.
I myself have seen with my own eyes children being killed in drones.
So don't tell me they don't target children.
And that was the turning point for me thinking I cannot be living here and also keeping my family who might be targeted because of me.
So I have to take them out.
This is why I took them out.
All right.
Well, in closing, sir, I'm sorry on behalf of at least many Americans who have no control over our government.
Very sorry about what's happened to you, what's happening to you.
But I really appreciate your time on the show today.
I really appreciate all your efforts to bring your plight and your people's plight to the attention of the civilians of the West.
Some of us really do care.
Thank you.
Thank you for doing the interview.
Malik is also thanking you.
OK, thanks again, both of you.
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