03/10/15 – John Whitehead – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, you guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
Our first guest on the show today is John W. Whitehead.
He's the author of Government of Wolves, and he runs the Rutherford Institute at rutherford.org.
He's got one up there from yesterday, looks like, here.
DNA is turning us into a nation of suspects, and you can also find it over at lourockwell.com today.
Welcome back to the show.
John, how are you doing?
Hey, thanks.
Busy as usual.
Well, good, good.
Thank you for making time with us here.
I appreciate that you have taken on this subject.
It's a very important one.
But I also appreciate that you went ahead and put a few thousand words into it and really got to a lot of very important points, and really explored this issue in a way that I don't think I've ever seen anyone do before.
So thank you very much for that.
Please tell us, what do Americans need to understand about the proliferation of all these government DNA databases?
Well, first of all, to understand DNA, what DNA is is the mapping of your body, and it basically can detect who your ancestors were, your family.
Some police in some states are doing what they call familial research when they arrest somebody to find out who their ancestors are, their family members.
So it's the entire mapping of your body.
Let's put it that way.
And the leader in warning DNA is the FBI.
The FBI is amassing a huge database.
They're saying by the year 2025 they could have 325 million DNA prints on their database, which means they would know exactly who you are, where you are, what you think, and all that.
That's what DNA does.
I mean, I would encourage your listeners to do just a little research, read a few articles on DNA.
You'll see how powerful it is.
But the theory they're using, the government, the FBI, and then local police now, a lot of local police, by the way, train with the FBI, so you're just getting sort of echoes from the FBI when you're talking to local police who are into these subjects.
But supposedly to solve crimes, to get people off death row, that does happen occasionally.
But what DNA does is it gives the government tremendous power to use over people, basically.
And if you want to go to Rutherford.org or go to the Lou Rockwell website, you can read my article, but it surpasses fingerprints.
And the thing is now the several Israeli scientists, and this is an article out of the New York Times, says that DNA can be fabricated as well.
It's the easiest thing to put at a crime scene.
So let's put it this way.
If you're paranoid or you're classified as one of those conspiracy theorists, if your DNA, by the way, is shed everywhere, you can be set up at a crime scene all it takes is a hair or just a few cells off your body.
You can be implemented in any crime anywhere in the United States.
So that's the basic background.
But what I'm telling people is we already live in a surveillance state.
The NSA is downloading all of our communications.
The NSA admits to hacking into 160 Facebook pages a day.
Excuse me, 160,000.
So they're watching everything we do.
If you are one of those people out there who likes to protest, you don't agree with what the government does, you're a rebel rouser, you're automatically – and we get the cases here at the Rutherford Institute.
We see this.
They can come get you.
If they want to implement you in a crime, they will be able to do that within a few years.
You'll have no defense, by the way, because what they've done really well, they've sold it to the public as this foolproof thing, DNA sample.
It will cure everything.
We can get the real criminals.
But like I say, now we find out that it can be fabricated and placed at a crime scene.
In fact, the Israeli scientists said all they need is access to a computer to see what your DNA looks like.
They can fabricate it, recreate it, and place it in a crime scene.
And it wouldn't take, what, the Israeli army or whatever, that kind of advanced or wealthy kind of group of people in a laboratory to do it?
How easy would it be to do?
It's very easy if you know what you're doing.
So what I'm saying is that it can be done.
My particular belief right now, I think it's already being done.
That would be my argument.
I mean, if you're having scientists talking about it, it can be done.
And, by the way, it's been approved by the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court is totally backing DNA now.
You really have no – and most states are moving toward if you're just arrested, and, again, there's a key Supreme Court case, Maryland v.
King.
The Supreme Court said if you're just arrested, they can take your DNA now.
Here's the point.
You're not convicted of a crime.
You haven't even been on trial.
They'll take your DNA.
They'll put it on file.
So you really have no defense against it.
And that's the future of the country.
Well, and it really sounds like a lot of this is pretty ad hoc on the part of the cops and then upheld by the judges.
And to what degree we have representation in our legislatures, we don't even really get a chance to debate it at all.
You're not going to get a chance to debate it.
No, the courts are going to pass it.
The FBI, by the way, is the organization that's pushing this really heavily.
They'll be able to control basically – some say control the populace.
Some scientists are saying with DNA – there's two Russian scientists, by the way, and this has not been proven, not like the Israeli scientists.
They prove you can fabricate the DNA.
But two Russian scientists actually say they've done tests where by electromagnetic rays, they can alter DNA from a distance.
They actually took a frog embryo and turned it into a salamander doing that.
So I'm not saying they're going to turn us into salamanders or anything, but let's say you are one of those rebel rousers or Martin Luther King type or people today that get out there and picket and stuff.
If that's true, they can alter your DNA from a distance.
I think sooner or later that will probably be true.
Well, and you can see how the certainty of the science behind DNA can be conflated with the certainty that it's meaningful that we claim to have found this hair at this crime scene.
And so, geez, I saw on TV that these are some really super scientists with their super sciencey science, and they say that – how else does this guy explain his DNA is there, et cetera, et cetera.
Now the burden's on him, which I think is the point of this whole article, is we're all going to be basically by default guilty in the dock until we can somehow find a way to prove ourselves innocent.
I mean, if you're a quiet person and you don't cause trouble, you're probably not going to find yourself, but the rebel rousers out there, the people that the Rutherford Institute defends, the people who get on the picket lines out there who get their signs, who are uprising about police violence or whatever they're doing.
Well, hey, anybody with a job is good for getting revenue from, so you don't have to be doing anything wrong except trying to get by in the world, and you're a prime target.
It's true.
I agree.
And there have been cases I cite in the article I wrote.
You can go again to rutherford.org and read it.
It shows you there have been people who have been drugged in, spent eight months in jail, and they said, oh, okay, yeah, your DNA proved, well, yeah, you weren't the guy really, but they spent time in jail.
They had to pull in experts.
Here's the other thing.
If you're the average citizen out there and they say we've got your DNA, we're pulling you in, in order to fight that, you're going to have to get a lawyer.
It's going to cost you a lot of money.
Most people give up.
They can't afford legal defense in these situations.
So you're up against a huge bureaucracy.
You're up against Supreme Court decisions allowing all this, legislatures and the FBI, local police, Department of Homeland Security, by the way, is one of the big players in this, who's handing out all the equipment to police departments across the country.
So what we're facing today is if you're a free speech advocate and you want to see freedom prevail, you're going to be facing some pretty tough foes.
Yeah.
Well, and, you know, we've just seen in the past couple of weeks, I'm sure you probably noticed, Radley Balco did this series for the Washington Post that is certain to win a Pulitzer Prize, I think, about the bogus bite mark racket in prosecutions in this country of putting people away.
And there was another great one at the Intercept about all the fake science of so-called burn patterns where so many people have gone to prison based on this kind of pseudoscience that supposedly shows that they had committed arson when really they're just victims of accidental fires, et cetera.
And we already know that.
It's not like these police laboratories are set up to do double blind science or anything like that.
The cops say, hey, tell me if this hair matches.
And so obviously they're looking for a yes or whatever it is, you know, and they've been busted over and over again.
Even the FBI or maybe especially the FBI crime lab itself has been busted for their kind of their pseudoscientific practices and their conclusion first kind of ways of doing it.
Well, at the same time, to a juror, all this stuff sounds just as certain as it could possibly be, you know, objective and not even a subject of interpretation.
So real bad conflict there.
And then, as you said, what defendant can afford their own experts to really refute?
One sec, right back with John Rutherford.
Whoops.
John Whitehead from the Rutherford Institute.
Click the Amazon logo on the right side of the page at scotthorton.org or go to scotthorton.org slash Amazon.
All right, Joe, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show.
I'm talking with John Whitehead from the Rutherford Institute.
When I get his name right, it's usually his name.
And we're talking about these DNA databases.
And you're saying the FBI says that in 10 years it'll be complete, all 325 million of us by then.
Is that right?
That's what they're projecting, yeah, possibly.
One reason they're projecting that is because hospitals now are taking across the country and storing newborn babies' DNA often without knowledge of their parents.
There's been a few lawsuits where parents have sued over that.
And they're storing it indefinitely.
So they're taking it.
If you object to that, if you don't like that, and I would be sure if you're having your child, a lot of people don't have them in hospitals these days or having midwives or whatever.
If you don't agree with that, you might want to object to it and ask them not to do that.
But they may do it anyway.
So they're taking your child born in a hospital, they're taking the DNA generally.
And now let me ask you about something that you said at the beginning there.
I think you said that the cops themselves already, not universities or whoever, but the cops already are taking the DNA that they have in their databases and they are mapping out family relationships and the rest of these things?
Yeah, yeah.
There are several states that are doing that.
I think it's four states so far.
That's going to spread.
Yeah, they can go back and find out who your immediate family members are.
And scientists say sooner or later you'll be able to actually go back and trace ancestors.
Let's say you're related to, let's say, a Thomas Jefferson or somebody they consider to be radical, a Martin Luther King or whatever.
And the goal, I believe, is pre-crime.
They're going to be able basically to predict if you're the type of person who might commit a crime.
And a crime is not what I'm talking about, robbing a bank or something.
Crime might be getting in a park with a picket sign.
It might be the troublemakers, the rebel rousers.
But sooner or later your DNA basically determines who you are, how you think, how you move.
And they will be able to determine who your ancestors were.
And the science is moving very rapidly.
I think people have to understand that.
Science is moving, technology and science is moving so rapidly that I don't think anybody can control it right now.
I mean, who would have thought that everything you do now, your bank records, your e-mails, your text messages are all swooped up by the NSA, CIA, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security groups like that.
So there is no privacy anymore, folks.
Your bank records, by the way, I want to emphasize that.
Everybody does electronic banking these days.
They know exactly what's in your bank account.
They know what books you buy.
Now they want to know basically your family history, what's in your DNA.
So we're moving into – go ahead.
Well, it seems like they're kind of outsourcing.
They're making basically conspiracy theory machines, right, where they get to say, oh, okay, well, you're the second cousin twice removed from Malcolm X.
And so therefore we got to put a blue dot on you or whatever it is.
And the point being that they're taking any kind of humanity out of investigation of crime.
And they're instead going fishing, looking for people first and just looking for anything that they can get, especially on the people that they want to get, turn everything completely upside down.
And yet a computer isn't an intelligence, right?
A computer spitting out a readout that says this guy scores a 17 on the threat matrix, that doesn't actually mean anything.
Not in a way where if you took any other person and had them weigh the same facts, they would score it a 17, whatever.
You know what I mean?
They're outsourcing the responsibility for oppressing us to the computers that they designed to oppress us.
Well, here's the key, and I'll say it again.
Technology is moving very, very rapidly.
Google is working with the NSA to admit that and developing what they call the hive mind, which will mean your cell phones, your drivers.
Your driverless car, pretty soon there will be driverless cars on the road.
Everything, your laptop, everything electronic will be fused into one hive mind, and that will be accessed by the government intelligence agency.
So they'll know exactly what you're doing, anywhere you do it.
And Eric Schmidt, the former head of CEO, head of Google, said we'll know what you're thinking before you think it.
And again, all I do is research this stuff.
There's been a recent experiment showing with mice that scientists can actually implant false memories into animals.
In other words, they can create happy mice when they're agitated mice.
And there's some scientists now arguing that we should be, as individuals, be able to copyright our thoughts, because coming soon is, and they're wearing these hats with wire on them and stuff, whatever, computers.
People can actually move objects with their mind through computers now.
So we've moved into a whole new terrain.
But with DNA, what I'm saying is they're going to go so far back into your history, they're going to know how you think before you think it.
And that's the way it's moving.
But see, that's what I'm talking about, is that's nonsense, right?
DNA doesn't say what is in somebody's mind, what's in cognition or not.
Good enough for government work, same as you say in this article.
They're already watching your gait and the twitches on your face, and they're having their computer come up with conspiracy theories about you because of the twitch under your eye.
They might have your DNA and have the code for the curve of your nose.
That doesn't mean that they know anything about what's in your mind at all, only that they can come up with an accusation, and then they can pretend that it's scientific.
Exactly.
And you used the word conspiracy theory.
Yeah, I think all this is the government's conspiracy theory, but it's the way you control a populace.
And technology is all about control right now.
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.
What they mean when they use that term, when they use it accurately at all, they're talking about people who leap to conclusions and connect dots that don't necessarily connect.
They're always saying that in defense of themselves, but I'm saying that's their modus operandi.
That's exactly what they're doing, is they're saying, well, look, John Whitehead is connected to Scott Horton, is connected to Adam Morrow, who answers the phone in Cairo, and boy, you know who lives next door to him.
And Tom Cotton wrote a letter to the Ayatollah, so that means that those two are connected too, and this and that.
It's all a bunch of nonsense.
It all means, and if you have a computer telling you what it means, it means that it's guaranteed to be even more wrong, and it also guarantees that no one can be held accountable for how wrong it is either.
I know, but they look at the technology systems of computers as authoritative today.
And, again, I've been writing a bit on Google.
I have a new book coming out pretty soon where I talk about this, but Google says that they can basically anticipate what anybody does now.
Again, the movie Minority Report, Steven Spielberg's movie with Tom Cruise in it, was set in 2054.
All the technology in that film is now available to the government.
It's 40 years ahead of the curve, 40 years ahead of the curve.
Well, and so really the only thing, as Neil Postman put it, the only thing that's keeping it from full-scale deployment against us, I mean full-scale, is the old law, right, the remnants of the old constitutional system that are on their very last legs.
Well, again, I'm a constitutional lawyer.
The Fourth Amendment's been totally dissected and flushed down the toilet.
I mean the Fourth Amendment, and it's the key provision in the Constitution.
It prevents a police state.
It says before you do surveillance on an American citizen, before you touch an American citizen, you have to have probable cause, some evidence of illegality.
Well, if the NSA admits to downloading 1.7 billion of our emails a day, they're violating the Fourth Amendment.
They're gutting the Constitution.
And this DNA stuff is going to be even worse, in my opinion.
Absolutely.
Hey, listen, everybody, you've got to read this article.
It's really important.
It's at lewrockwell.com today, and it's at rutherford.org, how DNA is turning us into a nation of suspects by John Whitehead.
Thank you very much, John.
Hey, thank you, sir.
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