Hey y'all, check it out, the audiobook has finally been released.
Just go to foolserend.us, that's the shortcut, it'll take you over to the Amazon page.
And very soon, actually, I got a brand new website going up at scotthorton.org, and so soon you'll be able to buy that audiobook directly from me, but for now you can still get it at Audible and at amazon.com.
The audiobook of Fools' Erend, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and yes, it's read by me, and I'm sorry it took so long, I nitpicked the hell out of it trying to get it ready for you guys, and then plus it took them forever after I submitted it to finally release it, but anyway, there you go, foolserend.us, amazon.com, just search for my name, Scott Horton, Fools' Erend, and the audiobook is up there for you, also of course available in paperback and Kindle if you want the 1,150 footnotes.
War is the improvement of investment climates by other means, Clausewitz, for dummies.
The Scott Horton Show.
Taking out Saddam Hussein turned out to be a pretty good deal.
They hate our freedoms.
We're dealing with Hitler revisited.
We couldn't wait for that Cold War to be over, could we?
So we can go and play with our toys in the sand, go and play with our toys in the sand.
No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
Today I authorize the armed forces of the United States to begin military action in Libya.
That action has now begun.
When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.
I cannot be silent in the face of the greatest purveyor of bombs in the world today, my own government.
All right, you guys, introducing John Kiriakou.
He's the host of a show called Loud and Clear on Sputnik.
And he's the author of the book The Reluctant Spy about his time in the CIA.
He famously went to prison for blowing the whistle on some CIA torturers.
The only CIA man to go to prison regarding the torture program in any way, the whistleblower.
And then he also co-authored a book with Joseph Hickman, the great whistleblower from Guantanamo Bay, who witnessed the murders, or not witnessed the murders, but witnessed the aftermath of the murders of three men there in 2006.
And that's called The Convenient Terrorist, all about Abu Zubaydah.
Welcome back to the show.
How are you doing, John?
Thanks, I'm doing well, thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Good deal, happy to have you here.
So, listen, there's some controversy going on.
Let's start off with...
Yes, there is.
Well, Gina Haspel, of course, is the nominee, Trump's nominee, to replace Pompeo for CIA director.
And you've been saying that in various media, various articles you've written, including in the Washington Post, that at the time you and your friends at CIA back then called her Bloody Gina for her role in the torture program.
And I thought it was really funny, actually, the way the guy at NPR News gave you the third degree over a statement that you actually retracted, although it was pretty clear what his agenda was.
Oh, yeah.
And the way that he handled that interview is amazing to see.
Not really, it's NPR, but still, they're supposed to be the liberals, you know, but instead he's Sean Hannity on you.
Oh, yeah.
You know what the issue is with NPR is that they're neoliberals, just like the Hillary Clintons, just like all these other mainstream pro-war Democrats.
They're all in the same boat.
I'll tell you the truth, I was surprised that he attacked my integrity.
I wasn't surprised that he attacked me, but I decided to just give it right back to him.
I'm glad I did.
Well, now, and he had you getting it wrong, and you conceded it.
He read the words, too.
You say here that she videotaped the torture of Abu Zubaydah.
You wrote that in an article for Reader Supported News a year ago.
So what happened with that?
Yeah, you know, this was an opinion piece that I had done for Reader Supported News, and I had pulled the information from the front page of The Washington Post.
And that's what I used, what was on The Washington Post, what everybody else was reporting, because I have to put everything I write through the CIA's Publications Review Board.
And so if I'm offering up something new, something that's never been reported before, they reject that, and I didn't want to have it rejected.
And so I used what was publicly available.
So at the time that you made that error, you were going off of other reporting, but then people are citing you, because, hey, you're John Kiriakou.
You're the guy who knows, so then you become the primary source that people are quoting.
But then, so you're saying now that that is wrong?
Yeah, she got there just after the torture of Abu Zubaydah, and she oversaw the torture of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashaty.
So this brings up two points, Scott.
Number one, does it really matter which one she tortured?
I mean, is it better to have tortured one than the other?
Or we should be forgiving of her torturing one and not the other?
Well, almost sort of kind of a little bit.
I mean, the first thing is just because the ProPublica story came out and was cited by Rand Paul and others, that was – they were partially citing you and they were partially citing others, that she was in charge of torturing Zubaydah.
So for the retraction, it just – it was a huge story that had to be retracted regardless of the fact that, well, yeah, but she tortured Nashiri instead.
And I guess there is a difference, right?
Because Nashiri was actually guilty of – I don't know if he was in on the 9-11 plot.
I think he was in on the 9-11 plot, but he was certainly a real al-Qaeda guy as opposed to Abu Zubaydah, who was mostly just some schmuck, right?
And you wrote the book on him.
Well, not necessarily.
Joe and I, in the book, we say that Abu Zubaydah was not the mastermind, the terrorist mastermind that the White House and the CIA said he was.
But he was certainly a bad guy.
He was the commander of al-Qaeda's two training camps in southern Afghanistan.
He was the founder of al-Qaeda's safe house in Peshawar, the House of Martyrs.
He was the guy that issued the paychecks and made the fake passports and got you a ticket home if you were done with the fight.
So he was a bad guy.
And my second point, though, is about Ray Bonner, the author of that article.
First of all, I don't think the article should have been retracted.
I think it should have been corrected because it was just that one sentence.
It should have been corrected.
But Ray Bonner, here's this guy, former New York Times journalist, the author of the article for ProPublica.
Does this guy not do any research, like any research at all?
Does he have no national security sources that he can call on?
He has to rely on John Kiriakou's op-ed in reader-supported news?
Well, I mean, it certainly was a fair point that you made on NPR that he should have called you.
He should have called me.
Rather than just writing based on that.
You're pretty easy to get a hold of.
Yeah, I am.
But now, so Zubeda, and I haven't read the book because, man, there's a lot of books I haven't read that I should have read.
But I'm getting a lot of mixed signals about Abu Zubeda.
I mean, I've heard him certainly described more or less as like a travel agent.
The kind of guy who brought the Al-Qaeda guy's wives to come and visit for a while and this kind of thing.
Ran some camps.
But, well, and I don't know if this is true either because this reporter's work has come into question from time to time as well.
But Ron Suskind quotes George W. Bush telling George Tenet, Hey, I said he was important.
You're not going to make me lose face on this, are you, George?
Because Bush had invoked Zubeda over and over and over again as this is exactly why we have to torture.
Because we've got our hands on guys like Zubeda who is the number three commander of Al-Qaeda.
And we had to torture, well, we'll get to what they tortured out of him in a minute.
But we had to torture all these things out of him.
And so, well, I don't know.
Clarify for me.
Yeah, you know, I generally hate Ron Suskind's guts.
But he's right on that point.
It was George W. Bush that went on national television and said that Abu Zubeda was the number three in Al-Qaeda and ordered the CIA to catch him.
Now, the work that Joe Hickman did in our book, the book we wrote together, really it's more Joe's research than it is mine.
I just sort of recounted my personal experience in it.
But Joe did this groundbreaking research in which he found that there were two Abu Zubedas.
There was the Abu Zubeda we captured.
And there was his first cousin also named Abu Zubeda.
Not unusual in the Middle East.
Well, when you look at the two files mixed into one, not realizing that it's two different guys, you say, oh, my God, this guy is a terrorist mastermind.
He's a terrorist superman.
Like how can he be in all these different places at the same time?
Well, he couldn't.
It's because there were two of them.
So if you put them together, sure, this is a very bad guy.
We've got to stop this guy.
If you realize there are two different guys, you know, it's bad, but it's not that bad.
And he certainly wasn't the number three in Al-Qaeda.
And which, by the way, I'm not trying to say, you know, this guy, Nasiri, if he was involved in September 11th, deserved to be tortured.
But it sounds like if Zubeda wasn't, he definitely did not deserve to be tortured.
He did not.
He did not deserve it.
Nasiri was not in on 9-11, but he was the alleged mastermind of the coal bombing.
So also a very bad guy.
But, you know, back to the point that I made the first time I was on your show, if these guys are as bad as we say they are, then why don't we charge them with a crime and put them on trial?
And we've never done that.
Well, with the USS Cole, they have prosecuted some of those guys, but, you know, renditioned and tortured the rest.
How did that break down?
Yeah, well, they went after the people that they believed to be the masterminds of all these different attacks.
And they were successful in just about every instance of either capturing or killing them.
And when they captured them in that period between 2002 and 2005, they immediately sent them to a secret location.
Then they started the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques.
They extracted these confessions or what they believed to be confessions.
And then that was the end of it because then when they were turned over to military authorities or to the judge advocate general's office at Guantanamo, they were told, well, we can't use any of this information because it was extracted during torture.
It was as though at the Justice Department in 2001 and 2002, the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.
On the one hand, you had the Office of Special Counsel telling the CIA, sure, you can go ahead and torture these guys.
It's legal because we say so in this one instance.
And then on the other hand, you have the U.S. attorney's offices saying, wait a minute, wait a minute.
We can't prosecute these guys because they were tortured and torture is illegal.
So now they're in this limbo situation.
Look at Abu Zubaydah.
He's been he's been in our custody now for 16 years and he's never been charged with a crime.
Oh, he's not even one of the ones being prosecuted because they are prosecuting Khalid Sheikh Mohammed down there.
And they tortured both of those guys, right?
Yeah, well, they're trying to.
And both of those prosecutions have screeched to a halt just because they don't know what to do about this torture.
The information extracted during torture.
Which, and by the way, if people read Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's confession, he admits that he sank the main and the Lusitania and was behind convincing FDR to let the Japanese go ahead and attack Pearl Harbor because they must be.
I mean, he's responsible for everything.
I was mocked once in an interview because I said that at one point he confessed to kidnapping the Lindbergh baby.
So what do you do with all that information?
Yeah, I mean, I was joking, but that's how serious it is.
Well, and I think he was at that point, who knows?
But almost it seemed to me like he was kind of in humor, kind of just saying, oh, yeah, that's right, guys.
Today's the day of my big confession.
Write all this down.
And it was almost like he was sending a message that, you know, are you buying this?
Because this is what they've tortured me into saying.
You know what I mean?
That was the subtext to me was like, wait, this is the guy that put Castro in power in Cuba in the first place way back when?
Exactly.
Anyway.
You know, the thing about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, too, is unlike most of these other guys, he realizes that his life is over, that he is never going to see the light of day again.
And so with that understanding, he knows that he has nothing to lose by just saying anything that pops into his head.
And that's what he does.
All right.
So let's talk about.
Well, I want to get back to Gina Haspel in a minute.
But what the hell?
We got a little bit of time.
So I'm interested in the Iraq war lies that they tortured out of Abu Zubaydah and Sheikh al-Libi specifically.
And we already know, I think, that they had the Egyptians torture al-Libi into saying that Saddam had taught al-Qaeda how to make chemical weapons and hijack airplanes.
But what exact lies do you know that they torture out of Zubaydah in regards to implicating Saddam Hussein?
You know, specifically out of Abu Zubaydah, I don't know.
That was after my time there.
But this was also an ongoing problem that was coming out of the White House.
You'll recall that on September 12th, 2001, Richard Perle famously went to the White House and said, we've got to attack Iraq.
The Iraqis were behind this.
Now, of course, the Iraqis weren't behind it.
The Iraqis were never behind it.
Osama bin Laden hated Saddam Hussein as much as he hated us.
But Perle and the neocons had an agenda.
They had an agenda from the very beginning.
And what they had as their trump card was the fact that Saddam had laid out a plot to kill the first President Bush during a visit to Kuwait in 1993.
And so they capitalized on that and they used it to propagandize George W. Bush, who, frankly, didn't know any better and was getting competing information, intelligence, whether it was coming from the CIA or from the Pentagon, because the Pentagon had recruited Ahmed Chalabi after the CIA had issued a burn notice on him forbidding any CIA officer from coming into contact with him.
So the the intelligence was biased and faulty and propaganda.
You had a vice president that you couldn't trust who's pushing you into war.
Then you have, you know, these Al Qaeda prisoners who are being tortured into saying that Iraq had something to do with the 9-11 attacks.
You have fake intelligence saying that Mohammed Atta had flown to Prague to meet with the with the station chief of the Iraqi intelligence service there.
I mean, sure, the nature of intelligence is that it's sometimes conflicting.
But this was ridiculous.
This was this was a concerted effort by an element of of opinion makers in Washington to push us into a war of choice.
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Hey, thanks for bringing up the anthrax there because, you know, Rai Dawson pointed out to me what I believe is the very first instance of that story.
And it's in the London Times.
And it says right there, according to Israeli intelligence sources, they witnessed.
Not only did Mohammed Atta meet Iraqi intelligence in Prague, they witnessed the Iraqi intelligence officer hand Mohammed Atta a flask of anthrax.
Total lie.
That was a total lie.
And, you know, I remember thinking right around the time that we were crossing the border into Iraq or in the days immediately preceding that, I remember thinking, I wonder if this is all a giant Israeli deception and denial program.
If it is, man, this is classic because they're pushing us right into a war we really didn't want to fight.
That's almost exactly the title of Bush's Cincinnati speech, denial and deception.
I think it's a possibility.
Hey, as long as we're talking about it.
Julian Borger wrote in The Guardian, one called The Spies Who Pushed for War.
And Robert Dreyfuss has one in The Nation called Agents of Influence.
And Bamford writes about it in his book, A Pretext for War, that the Israelis were manufacturing fake intelligence and stove piping it right into the stream there in order to push this thing.
Lawrence Wilkerson has said on this show that out of all the neocons, and they're all a bunch of Israel firsters, but he thought that David Wormser and Douglas Feith were both working outright as agents on behalf of the Israeli government.
I would not be surprised by that.
And it's something that probably deserved an investigation back then.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be surprised.
Well, I can think of a few.
There were independent, there were journalist investigations, but yeah, that was about it.
Now, okay, so do you know about were any of these guys tortured into implicating Iraq other than Zubeda and Alibi?
Not that I know of.
And Alibi was the big one.
Alibi was the one that they specifically set out to get him to say that it was Iraq.
And now all the orange alerts.
You know, there's a story, I guess, I know Marcy Wheeler's written about this, and I guess it was in the torture, the Senate torture report, that at one point Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said, yeah, I have some Nation of Islam guys running around plotting to blow up Montana.
And they sent a bunch of CIA to go run around to try to find this Nation of Islam terrorist plot that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had made up.
And I was just wondering, like, come on.
And these guys, they know that their job is torturing lies out of these guys to keep everybody's mom afraid so they can lie us into war with Iraq.
Don't tell me they really believed that al-Qaeda had gotten the Nation of Islam to come up with some plot against.
No, that's nonsensical.
And what they would do in that case is once Abu Zubeda says it, they would write it up as an intelligence report.
And then they would put the identical information in a memo format and send an official memo to the FBI.
And then the FBI would elect to either ignore it or check it out.
And my guess is they would ignore something that ridiculous.
Well, in this story, apparently they went, you know, all haywire, which, you know, they got to pretend to be working, doing something, I guess.
True.
All right.
OK, so now Gina Haspel, I guess.
Tell me everything that you can tell me about her.
You've already said that the retraction is correct, that she arrived in Thailand after Abu Zubeda had been transferred to.
Are they right about this, that he went from there to the torture prison in Poland that, by the way, used to be a Nazi base before it was a Soviet base, before it was an American one?
Well, I got to tell you that when I did the first op-ed for Reader Supported News, the one that was used in that ProPublica piece.
The one from a year ago.
Yeah, from a year ago, from February of 2017.
I sent it to the CIA Publications Review Board, and they redacted everything having to do with Gina Haspel's background, except the piece that got out, the sentence that got out saying that she was in Thailand.
So I can't say what she's done overseas.
I can't even use the names of those countries.
All I can say is it's been reported widely in the press, but I can't talk about those countries at all.
OK.
So, well, you were able to say before that it was correct that in the retraction that she didn't get there until after he was gone.
You said that.
I said that she got to the secret location after he was done.
OK, yeah, the Thailand part was my implication.
I've never used the word Thailand.
I got you.
And even now, just now you didn't.
OK.
Nope.
Now, so she was the chief of staff to Jose Rodriguez.
Yes.
And so what exactly was his job again?
Well, at the time, Jose was the director of the Counterterrorism Center at CIA.
He replaced Kofor Black in March of 2002.
And as soon as he became the chief, he pulled Gina Haspel in as his chief of staff.
And Jose had been chief of staff to Kofor Black before he became director.
So these are all very senior positions we're talking about.
All right.
And so, yeah, this is the thing now.
I forgot which congressman it was who literally used the phrase, but she was just following orders.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
And I'm not sure who I'm plagiarizing here, but it was somebody and it may have been in one of your recent articles that you wrote that she was giving orders.
Yeah.
This is someone who was.
I mean, so you can't tell me which country she was traveling in and this and that.
Can you explain to what degree she was a boss coming up with implement, you know, coming up with the policies with the others and then to what degree she's actually in charge of implementing them?
Sure.
The policy was created by a group of people.
It was collaborative in nature.
So you have all these senior intelligence service officers in the counterterrorism center.
They're coming up with with these techniques using the two contract psychologists, Mitchell and Jessen, and then presenting it to the director and the general counsel.
And then it goes over to the White House for approval, then to the Justice Department, then back to the White House for the president's signature.
So that's how the policy was created.
Once the policy is created, then it's up to to those components in CTC to carry it out.
So what's the most sensitive, the most important position in that whole structure?
It's the chief of base for the secret site.
So who does Jose Rodriguez name?
He names the person that he trusts the most.
And that was Gina Haspel.
Now, there's been a lot made in the press, too, about whether Gina was the chief of the base, the secret site, or chief of the station for the whole country.
I would posit that the chief of station probably didn't even know that this was happening in his own country.
That's how sensitive this operation was.
So Gina Haspel was the top dog.
She was the one who oversaw everything and everybody involved.
Wow.
So now what do you make, then, of Dianne Feinstein, who knows all of this?
Oh, Dianne Feinstein.
You know what?
I mean, listen, Dianne Feinstein is nothing but an endless list of problems, and we could start from any direction.
But you know what?
She's been pretty good on torture for Senator John.
She's been OK.
The problem with Dianne Feinstein, though, is that she is a longtime cheerleader for the CIA.
And the only time that she really took exception, the only time she really got angry, was when John Brennan finally confessed to having ordered his officers to hack into the Senate Intelligence Committee's computer system, which is an illegal act, of course, but was never prosecuted.
That was the only time that she's actually gone onto the floor of the Senate and criticized the CIA.
Now, on the torture program, she could have stopped it.
Don't forget that when this whole thing was going down, she was the chairman of the Intelligence Committee.
She's the head overseer.
And all she had to do was to say, listen, I don't care what the Justice Department says.
You're not doing this.
That's what overseers are for.
But she never said any of that.
She just let it go forward.
Well, and then, I mean, at least she did the investigation later, the same one that you're talking about, where they accidentally gave her their own report and then went and tried to get the FBI to prosecute the Senate staffers who they'd given it to for stealing it.
Yeah.
Which is amazing.
They had the nerve.
It's incredible that they had the unmitigated gall to file a crimes report against the Senate staffers who were preparing the torture report.
Yeah.
It was shocking to me.
Hey, you know as good as any of us that the CIA is a separate co-equal branch of government, at least.
It truly is.
I mean, they certainly weren't calling her ma'am in that case, right?
They were calling her, look, Diane, you know?
That's right.
It's amazing.
That's right.
Well, she'd be amazing.
She blocked Gina Haspel in 2013 from becoming deputy director of the CIA for operations, DDO.
She would have replaced Jose Rodriguez when he retired.
And the reason she did that is because she said that she had questions about Gina's activities at the secret site.
So a couple of days ago when Gina is named director, a reporter for Politico asked Feinstein her thoughts.
And she said that she's gotten to know Gina Haspel as deputy director, that they've had dinner together.
And she's going to need to answer some questions, but that Feinstein has great respect for her.
Well, that's exactly the opposite of what she was saying in 2013.
And the only thing that's changed is that they've had dinner together.
So what kind of oversight is that?
Yeah, not much.
So Rand Paul has come out against her, but he's not on the committee.
He's not on the committee.
Yeah, he'll get to vote in the general thing.
So is anybody on the judiciary committee liable to put her through the ringer at all?
And then it doesn't matter, does it, because even her confirmation hearing will be in secret, right?
Yeah.
Her confirmation hearing, there will be a couple of minutes of open session where the TV cameras can show her sitting there in front of the panel.
But the hearing itself, the meat of the hearing, it's all going to be in the Senate Intelligence Committee vault.
It's a classified hearing, and it'll be closed off.
So there's only one member of the committee that has come out solidly against her, and that's Ron Wyden, a Democrat of Oregon.
There have been a couple of other senators, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Brian Schatz of Hawaii, who have said that they're opposed and that they'll vote no.
Last night, Rand Paul said that he would filibuster both Pompeo and Haspel, and that's great.
But the last time he tried to filibuster a nominee, he only lasted a day or two.
So what we need is we need somebody to bottle it up in committee.
I don't think that Wyden has the wherewithal to do that.
If you can't bottle up in committee, you're going to need a lot of senators to filibuster.
Or failing that, you're going to need 40 no votes so that they can't end cloture.
Well, and thank goodness for partisanship on this.
You know, the liberals and the progressives, the leftists, I'll give them credit, have really stayed good on war this whole time.
But people between them and Trump have been really silent on war through the whole Obama years.
They're trying to find a way to slink back to being good on this stuff.
And so here's an opportunity for them to say, look, Bush-era torturer, so we can try to find a way to oppose.
And this is the thing, and I've heard you talk about this, about just the broader statements about the corruption of American society at this point, and certainly in the government, where this is even a question, where this could be allowed to happen.
It's the same as in 2004.
Yeah, of course John Kerry is just as bad as George Bush in every way, and he even voted for the war.
But George Bush lied us into war.
He has to be fired.
It doesn't matter if Jimmy Carter is the one running against him.
It doesn't matter who's running against him.
He must be held accountable for lying us into war.
And I remember telling that to people and then going, huh.
It didn't even occur to them that, yeah, no, the thing is, is if you're a guilty war criminal, then at the very least we don't promote you to the highest level.
Exactly, exactly.
It's like we've gone nuts.
And when I say something, you know, I give a lot of interviews, Scott.
And when I go on these shows and I say, listen, we're supposed to be a country of laws.
We're supposed to be a country that respects its constitution.
People write me off as this, you know, libertarian fringe weirdo.
When what I'm saying is mainstream, and it's exactly what the founding fathers were saying.
Yeah.
Well, and, you know, this is the thing too, man, is about the law, is it was already against the law to torture people.
But what Obama did was he said, I have ordered an end to these programs.
But he didn't say in his executive order that I am ordering the executive branch of government to once again recognize the fact that the law bans torture.
It always did.
And, you know, the anti-torture statutes are still there.
I mean, I think.
Am I right that George Washington's orders from the Revolutionary War still stand that you're not allowed to do this stuff?
Yes.
Well, besides that, Scott, besides that, we've got a federal torture act where which which specifically prohibits exactly those techniques that we used.
And and we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American prisoners of war after after World War Two.
So the law never changed.
Yeah.
Ronald Reagan's Justice Department, he and Ed Meese prosecuted a Texas sheriff for waterboarding somebody.
That's right.
Now, look, they did.
I mean, come on, you know, you're a CIA guy.
So I don't know if you want to say this or or if it's for or against interest to emphasize this.
But the CIA has been torturing people since they're created, since before.
And, you know, when they were the OSS, I'm sure as well.
And they are legendary instructors of torture to torturers in their employ and right wing fascist dictatorships all across this planet.
So it's not that it's not that they don't torture.
It's just that it's always been illegal this whole time.
Yeah, it has been.
I think over the years, that's been that's been the case.
Now, that changed.
That changed in 1975 and 76 with the with the church committee and the Pike Committee on Capitol Hill.
But after 9-11, we really seriously backslid.
Yeah.
All right, man.
Well, so I'm trying to think of what questions I'm not asking about Haspel that you could answer.
I know that you're under restrictions as a former CIA officer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I apologize.
I really can't say any more than that.
All right.
Well, thanks again for coming on the show, man.
Really appreciate it.
Thanks.
My pleasure.
Take care.
All right, you guys, that's John Kiriakou, former CIA officer, host loud and clear on Sputnik.
He wrote The Reluctant Spy and then he co-authored with Joseph Hickman a book called The Convenient Terrorist, all about Abu Zubaydah and his cousin Abu Zubaydah.
All right.
So you just learn stuff on Scott Horton Show.
ScottHorton.org, YouTube.com, Scott Horton Show, FoolsAaron.us.
The audio book is out.
Buy the audio book.
FoolsAaron.us and AntiWar.com, LibertarianInstitute.org.
And follow me on Twitter at Scott Horton Show.
Thanks.
All right, you guys, here's who supports this show.
First of all, the great Mike Swanson.
He wrote this incredible book called The War State about the rise of the permanent military industrial complex and the new right after World War Two.
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It's on Amazon.com and TheWarState.com.
And also he gives great investment advice if you have any money to invest at WallStreetWindow.com.
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