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Alright you guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
And this is my show.
Let me click my right link here.
Douglas Lucas is on the phone at douglaslucas.com and writes at riseup.net, is that right?
Welcome.
How are you doing, Douglas?
Doing well, how are you?
Okay, yeah, that's much better.
Riseup.net, I didn't get a chance to look.
Is that where you write?
No, that's my email address.
I'm a freelancer and I write for WhoWantWhy, DailyDial, lots of different places.
Okay, that's cool.
I know Christian Stork over there, that's cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's great.
Okay, good deal.
And he's great on this particular issue, too.
Barrett Brown, now you have been attending his federal court sentencing today in Dallas, Texas, is that correct?
Right, we just got out for the lunch recess and we'll be going back in in less than an hour.
Okay, so we don't know what he'll be sentenced to, but we do know that he's no longer facing 100 years, correct?
He's no longer facing 105 years or the 70 years that he was facing a little later in the trial.
He's facing up to eight and a half years as a result of the plea deal that he took.
Right, and he took the plea deal because they were, in order to let his mom off the hook, because they were going to prosecute his mother, correct?
No, that's not correct.
Oh.
Yeah, they prosecuted his mother earlier in the case.
Oh, they already did.
He was off with a misdemeanor and a fine of $1,000 and six months probation.
Oh, I thought that was part of the deal.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I admit I'm not read up on this.
But the prosecution of his mother really did play a role in infuriating him, the fact that they searched her house in March of 2012.
Yeah, well that was what got him in so much trouble.
That was the event that made him go on YouTube and threaten to dox the FBI agent, right?
Partially.
He was also just fed up with the FBI not returning his gear.
Yeah, it was the raid by the FBI on his apartment and his mother's home in March of 2012.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
It's been a little while.
But anyway, so the point being is he's facing eight and a half.
He pled guilty to what all charges now exactly?
He pled guilty to three counts.
One was transmitting a threat in interstate commerce or something like that, basically threatening the FBI agent.
The one who is actually testifying today and will continue to be on the stand probably after the lunch break.
That was up to five years.
He pled guilty to accessory after the fact to an unauthorized access of a computer for up to two and a half years.
And he pled guilty to misdemeanor of interference with a execution of a search warrant for up to one year.
And the other two counts were felonies.
Now on the unauthorized access, that was in regards to what?
Was that in regards to copying and pasting the link from the chat?
No, that was not.
Those counts were dropped following a really good defense motion to dismiss that indictment.
And the Electronic Frontier Foundation was about to submit a brief arguing against it.
And the prosecution sort of said, OK, we give up and drop those counts.
So what unauthorized access did he plead guilty to then?
He himself did not unauthorized access anything.
It's an accessory after the fact.
Oh, an accessory to that.
I see.
Yeah, accessory after fact.
And the one who committed the unauthorized access was Jeremy Hammond.
And that's his access of the private intelligence firm Stratfor down in Austin.
He hacked that organization in December 2011 as an FBI informant named Sabu, Handel Sabu, Hector Bonseguer, watched on.
So that all happened with the FBI's knowledge.
They apparently sacrificed Stratfor, let Stratfor go down in order to whatever, multiple, I mean there's multiple theories.
One is that they were trying to entrap WikiLeaks by selling the e-mails or watching Anonymous try to sell the e-mails or something like that.
Right.
There's multiple theories.
All right.
Now, as far as the FBI agent's testimony today, what did he talk about?
The prosecution asked him to talk about a whole bunch of exhibits that the prosecution just entered into evidence.
Apparently this morning the defense, it was the first time the defense had seen this material, about 500 pages that was delivered to the defense this morning.
So the defense tried to object to it all, or most of it, saying that it was not relevant.
But the prosecution was saying, okay, these chat logs, these e-mail quotes, these interview quotes are relevant conduct to Barrett Brown sentencing because they show his role in Anonymous as a strategist, as some sort of leader, as a person who was pointing toward what places should be targeted, that sort of thing.
So they're trying to paint – they're showing these logs and there are many points where Brown arguably sort of gets into some sort of accessory or conspirator type vibe.
But it's difficult to say because journalists are always going to be talking with their sources.
And a lot of his communications are being really – in the exhibits are being sort of misunderstood, I think, by the government to say, you know, I have some people right here.
Actually one of the examples was the government would quote him saying, well, they say he's an anarchist in this exhibit 34 or whatever it is.
And the FBI agent Robert Smith would say, yes, he does.
The defense actually objected at that point saying, well, what's up with this anarchism?
How is that relevant?
It's prejudicial.
The judge said, well, this isn't a jury trial and I'm not intending to consider it in my sentencing, but let's just keep this show on the road.
It's really kind of strange that this – here's another quote.
Well, I want to go back to your previous thing there real quick.
We're very short on time, but I just want to go over what you said there because it's extremely important for people to understand.
For a journalist to tell his source, yeah, get me some more stuff, is not a crime in the United States of America.
Sorry to whoever wants to spin it otherwise.
It's a gray area, but it should not be a crime.
I don't think there's – soliciting for classified material can be considered a crime.
It is BS, though.
It's where they can – Brown said in one of the exhibits, we're the most effective process to smash the institutions that need smashing.
Well, that's – the FBI agent was like, yeah, sure, that's one of the things he said.
But that's smash the institutions that need smashing.
That's metaphorical.
That's broad.
That's a general statement.
And the prosecution is trying to say that he's like a ringleader going around saying – at one point the prosecution even filed a motion where they said that he and Anonymous secretly plotted to overthrow the government.
Well, I'm actually a little heartened to hear that the prosecution is so desperate in invoking this stuff.
I hope that the judge sees that like, wow, that's really all you guys got, huh?
Yeah.
Well, anyway, all right.
Well, we'll all keep our fingers crossed.
Thanks so much, Douglas, for the coverage.
I appreciate it.
Thanks.
That's Douglas Lucas, everybody.
You can follow him on Twitter.
We'll be right back in a sec.
I'll tell you more.
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