11/05/15 – Jill Stein – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, you guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
And our next guest on the show today is Jill Stein.
And I regret that this is the first time I've ever had her on the show.
I know she ran for president before, and I should have talked to her back then.
But now she's running for president again.
The website is Jill2016.
Jill2016.
And she's running to be the Green Party nominee.
As I understand it, you don't have the nomination locked up for this time yet.
But you're running to be the Green Party nominee for president this time.
Is that right?
Welcome to the show, Jill.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
Good to be here, Scott.
Great to talk to you.
And I'm right that it's still up for grabs.
It won't be decided until the spring or something, right?
In theory, that's true.
On the other hand, I think you'd have to look long and hard to find another visible green candidate.
Okay, good deal.
You're the one.
I think we've got the wind at our back.
Gotcha.
Okay, well, good deal.
So, yeah, all we're interested in here on this show is foreign policy, pretty much.
I guess we could talk about the police state stuff, too.
You know, the domestic version of the empire.
Go hand in hand.
Yeah.
So I'd like to hear you on all of it.
The world empire, the Asia pivot, NATO expansion, the Middle East, Israel-Palestine, the SOCOM invasion of Africa, whatever you got.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you name it.
Where is it not a disaster?
And, you know, I guess for starters, let's just say that a foreign policy based on total economic and military domination isn't working out so good for us.
And you don't have to look further than the Middle East to see five flagrantly failed states, about $5 trillion that basically gone up in smoke, creating misery, chaos and violence throughout the region.
Iraq is maybe the poster child of where we poured in resources, about $3 trillion, $2 trillion, $3 trillion.
You know, when you add up ongoing medical costs by the time we're done paying for them, Iraq and Afghanistan are somewhere between $3 and $5 trillion worth of money down the drain, a million people killed in Iraq.
And we've basically mobilized the hearts and the minds of people throughout the Middle East against us.
And we have really, you know, we've come to drive home Martin Luther King's description of the U.S. as the greatest purveyor of violence around the world.
And nowhere is it clearer than the disaster of our policies in the Middle East.
Failed states in Iraq, Afghanistan, in Libya, in Yemen, in Syria, where the president, now in all of his wisdom, after declaring some 16 times on the record that we would not have boots on the ground, we have boots on the ground.
And these are not just innocent advisors.
These are, you know, the guys that do the no-knock raids in the middle of the night.
And this is, you know, how it goes from bad to worse.
The bottom line is that we are making ourselves less secure, not more secure, creating the terrorist strongholds that grow greater by the day.
So, you know, there's a nutshell for you on the Middle East.
We could certainly talk about ISIS because that is sort of the latest propaganda tool, I think, to stay the course.
Not that ISIS isn't a real, you know, horrific thing.
ISIS is real.
But ISIS grew out of U.S. policy.
ISIS was the creation of the disaster zone in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq, pitting warlords against each other, creating just, you know, untold levels of violence and misery.
Out of that, we have yet another terrorist movement.
And, you know, the thing about ISIS is that we ought to be able to control ISIS because it's our allies, the Saudis, who are funding ISIS.
It's our allies who are buying the oil produced by ISIS and sold on the black market.
So it's our allies that are feeding them further funding by buying their oil.
It's Turkey, our alleged ally, whose borders are basically open for jihadi reinforcements to cross over and support ISIS and keep replenishing them.
And, you know, the bottom line is that it is our weapons that are flowing largely indirectly, but it is our weapons that are coming into the hands of ISIS and that are enabling them to, you know, be the terror that they are.
We supply 80% of the weapons to the Middle East so we can shut off that pipeline of weapons and ammunition.
We should be working with the Russians to have an arms embargo to the Middle East, and that would do a world of good to stop the chaos that we have created.
All right.
Well, so all that's good so far.
But if you were in a debate, they would say, yeah, but we got to have one last really good intervention to fix all these problems, because what are you going to do?
Just let these jihadists take over the whole world?
Everybody knows America must lead, et cetera, like that.
Exactly.
I mean, we can continue the cycle of violence, and that's what they would like to do.
The bottom line is that we're not going to convince these zombie politicians.
You know, we just have to throw them out.
They are essentially the surrogates for the fossil fuel companies who stand to benefit by securing oil sources and the critical areas of transport, which goes a long way to explain why exactly we're fighting these wars.
But the Democratic and Republican parties, both of them, are basically funded by the big banks, the fossil fuel companies, and the war profiteers.
So, you know, I think the American people are sick to death of these wars.
They've been intimidated into thinking that the only way to fight ISIS is with more of what created ISIS.
But that's exactly the lesson here.
This is a cycle of violence that we have been feeding going way back.
You can follow it all the way back to the creation of al-Qaeda, which was basically created by U.S. forces in Afghanistan to fight the Russians.
You know, this was an outgrowth of the sort of terrorist organizations that we trained, funded, and armed.
So, you know, al-Qaeda then, you know, that was our excuse for then going in to the other, you know, to Iraq and Afghanistan.
And now coming out of that violence, we created ISIS.
So you want to stop this cycle of escalating violence.
And I think, you know, the American people get that this is not getting us where we want to go.
We are not creating democracy.
We are not creating stability.
We are certainly not creating, you know, a world of citizen engagement and, you know, economic stability and women's rights.
Far from it.
We're doing exactly the opposite.
That's clearly got to be pointed out to the American people.
But we are paying the price at home enormously with a budget where over half of our discretionary expenditures are now going into the military.
And it's not exactly moving us forward.
It's moving us backwards.
So this is pure madness.
And they can only, I think they can only maintain this madness by creating the illusion that there is no alternative.
But there is an alternative.
It's an alternative that allows us to recoup basically over a trillion dollars a year that's robbing us blind once you add up both the military expenditures and the, you know, the allied expenses, the security complex and, you know, homeland security and the NSA and the VA and nuclear weapons expenditures.
This is over a trillion dollars a year.
And that can be massively slashed and will be far more secure for it.
All right.
Well, we're talking with Jill Stein, the once and again campaigning Green Party nominee for president here.
Candidate for president is the word I was desperately trying to search for there.
It's a really hard word to find in my vocabulary.
Candidate, Green Party candidate for president.
We're talking about war and peace because it's my show, the Scott Horton Show.
Hang tight more after this.
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All right, you guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton talking with Jill Stein, Green Party candidate for President of the United States.
Jill, 2016 is her website.
And we're talking about war and peace, American foreign policy, what it might look like if she was in charge.
That's really the question.
You've got a great indictment of American foreign policy, specifically in the Middle East there.
Jill, I don't think I could quibble with a word of it.
But so tell me what America looks like in 2019 under your presidency.
Yeah.
You know, for one thing, it hasn't been blown to smithereens.
And it's not, you know, under 10 feet of water, you know, as we fast forward under the current, you know, the current mythology.
You know, we're melting the ice caps and more than the ice caps.
Latest predictions, actually, from a guy who hasn't been wrong yet.
And that's Jim Hansen from NASA, formerly from NASA.
Hasn't been wrong yet is now saying we have maybe a couple decades before we're looking at at least 10 feet of sea level rise.
Which means, you know, which means just it's not survivable, totally not survivable.
So bomb China and India until they shut down all their smokestacks?
Yeah, no, I don't think so.
You know, I think they're actually pretty worried about what's happening, too.
And, you know, we could have a far more collaborative policy.
The U.S. has done more than any nation to actually sabotage international climate agreements.
You know, the U.S. was using the same spy technology they use on us on the people we were supposed to be negotiating with in good faith.
And we did a good job of basically sabotaging those agreements.
And we think China is actually moving forward because their people wouldn't take it anymore.
You know, they have huge riots and protests based on, you know, the coal that has been killing them.
So, you know, this is put it this way.
We haven't been we haven't been an honest broker and we have not been working in good faith.
We have been creating enemies because our weapons profiteers need enemies.
We need bad guys.
So we've basically been creating a Cold War where we didn't have to have one.
And whether you look at Syria or whether you look at Ukraine, you know, we have been begging for a fight.
And right now what's going on in Syria, you know, it's it's pretty scary as we put the boots on the ground.
And we we've been bombing Syria for a year without progress.
We're now kind of in a face off with Russia.
You know, we need to sit down and and talk with Russia.
We need to implement an arms embargo to the Middle East, including Syria.
And we need to form a basically a negotiated settlement for dealing with the political problems in Syria.
But we're coming right up against a disastrous and explosive situation as we've planted missiles and nuclear bombs.
And we've withdrawn from nuclear weapons treaties.
We have been as much of a disruptor of international law in the area of nuclear weapons, in the area of, you know, just basic international relations, as much as we've been a disruptor of law and civil liberties here at home.
So we've been we've been kind of putting on the wrong hat here and we can have a far more adult and collaborative relationship, building cooperation as opposed to looking for enemies that we can pump the military establishment with.
All right now.
So here's the thing, though.
Barack Obama pretty much said that, too.
We need a lot more cooperation, a lot more multilateralism for accomplishing all those goals.
I think I would rather I would prefer to hear someone say I want to do nothing.
I don't think we need to lead the international community or even participate.
Why?
America's got to join the EU now or something.
What do we got to do?
Oh, no.
Just stop doing things for a minute.
Above all.
Yes.
Let's stop doing things.
But I think we can also talk to each other like human beings.
The reason you know, why should we do that?
And let me agree with you.
Barack Obama said all of these things.
But if you look at who he was working for, he was working for the fossil fuel companies and the weapons industry and the big banks.
So he had every reason to push for a policy of total economic and military domination.
In the same way, when push came to shove, who did he help here at home?
Totally the banks.
You know, he was going to be the good guy president who was helping everyday people.
That was not his agenda.
That was just his spin campaign.
You know, and to look at his money and his funding, you know, some of us were not fooled about this at all, because we were watching, you know, what was really going on here.
It was clear who his allegiance was.
You know, this was going to be a White House run by Goldman Sachs.
Well, I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to, you know, attack your character, because I agree with you that he was being deceptive back then.
And like you, I saw through it at the time.
And I know you saw through it at the time.
So I didn't really mean it like that.
I just meant sort of, you know, an independence-based foreign policy versus an internationalist foreign policy.
It seems to me if you're tied up in internationalism, then you have wars to fight.
If we live in a world where everything is run by international law, it's got to be enforced by somebody.
And if it's not us, it'll be the Chinese, cries every nationalist to the right of view.
Right?
I totally get that, you know, and I completely get that concern.
I don't think, though, you know, here's my trouble with just sort of backing off.
Well, let me qualify that to say there will be a world of good if we back off, because what we represent right now is purely weapons industry and, you know, and corporate predators.
That's who we represent.
And that's what our foreign policy has been.
I think we have an obligation to the 60 million refugees that we've created who are trapped in a hellhole right now.
I don't think we can just turn away from that.
That doesn't mean we fight humanitarian wars, you know, which is what the Democratic Party is all about.
They're using humanitarianism as an excuse for war.
You know, I think we need to, you know, we need to pay our debt here in supporting hospitals, you know, in supporting health care, in supporting humanitarian relief.
I'm not talking about no fly zones.
I'm not talking about weapons.
I think we need a weapons embargo, you know, and I think we have a real pathway to doing that.
I think climate is on its way to drown us all right now.
And in the absence of some kind of international agreement, I think multinational corporations are running the show.
They need to be reined in, and they don't just belong to us.
So I think there is a role here.
It's not the role that we've been playing, which is the handmaiden to multinational predators.
That's what U.S. foreign policy has been about.
I think we need, you know, we need to support international law and human rights.
And we do need to, we need to get off of fossil fuel.
All right, now tell me about Israel and Palestine.
Sure.
Just one last word.
We need to get off of fossil fuels, and we need to rein in the nuclear weapons, because those could go off in a moment, and they put us all at risk.
Absolutely agree with you on the nukes there.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's not rocket science how to do this.
These agreements were sabotaged.
Yeah, we already have an NPT.
All we've got to do is abide by it.
But now Israel-Palestine for me real quick before we're out of time.
Yeah, exactly.
Here too, you know, we have been financing the predators, and that means the Netanyahu government.
We're funding them $8 million a day to basically be war criminals and to conduct massacres across the border into Gaza.
This is outrageous.
We need to stop funding.
This is why, you know, to my mind, the solution here is about international law and human rights.
We need to abide by those rules.
They already exist.
If we abided by those rules, there's no way that we can fund a government, the Israeli government that lives in violation of those rules by way of its occupation and then by way of its massacres.
So we need to stop funding that illegal and illegitimate government, which is in violation of international law.
Same holds for the Saudis.
We're funding the Saudis, and they're doing the same thing and making a mess of the world while they're doing it.
So, you know, I agree with you in large part, that if we simply just stop doing the harm that we are funding, the world will be a far more secure and better place.
But I do think there are real reasons to ensure that we are abiding by those humanitarian laws and concerns as well.
We need to withdraw our military bases, our 800 military bases from 70 nations or more around the world.
You know, stop funding.
It's at least $100 billion in our budget to create these.
These are incredible liabilities that set us up for the abuse of power and for being the empire that we are, which is basically on its way to collapse right now.
All right, that's it.
We're out of time.
Thank you so much.
Perfect place to end there.
That's Jill Stein, Green Party candidate for president.
Jill, 2016.
Really appreciate it, Jill.
Thank you, Scott.
Good to talk.
See you all tomorrow.
Both at 8 Eastern.
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