Scott interviews Ron Enzweiler about President Trump trying to keep troops in Syria in order to seize their oil fields for American use. Enzweiler says that apart from this being illegal under international law, Syria’s oil fields amount to about 0.2% of the global supply, and the cost of keeping U.S. troops and infrastructure there is orders of magnitude greater than the potential revenues. Enzweiler says Trump’s statements are really about promoting Israel’s interests—since a military presence in Syria is seen as a defense for Israel against Iran—and in so doing, win the political support of American evangelicals.
Discussed on the show:
- “Absurdity of the Neocons’ Syrian Oil Narrative” (Antiwar.com)
- “When Will We Learn?” (Antiwar.com)
- “11/1/19 Sheldon Richman on the True History of Israel” (The Libertarian Institute)
This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.
Following is a computer-generated transcript of the episode.
Foer, Pacifica Radio november 10th 2019 I’m Scott Horton. This is anti war radio. All right, you guys, this is anti war radio. I’m your host. Scott work on the editorial director of anti war dot com and the author of Fool’s Errand, Timed and the War in Afghanistan. You find my full interview archive or the 5000 interviews now going back to 2003 at scott wharton dot org’s Aren’t you guys Introducing Ron Ends Wyler?
[expand title=”Read More”]He has lately been writing for anti war dot com. He is an Air Force veteran and worked for US aid in Iraq and Afghanistan for seven years, and he’s written a book called When Will We Ever Learn About Us? Foer? Impulse. You know what? That’s Ah, the title of the article that Harry Browne wrote on September 11th 2001. Welcome to show, Ron. How are you doing? A great Scott. Thank you for inviting me to come on your show. And, um, you know, give you some feedback on what I know about some of these things we’re talking about. Yeah, well, so this article’s really important here at antiwar dot com. Absurdity of the neo cons, Syrian oil narrative. And when you say that, you really mean it and you break this down by the numbers here. So give us a little bit of that thumbnail sketch you start off talking about, for example, how much oil the Saudis pump and the Iranians pump and how the Syrian oil supplies compared to that so clueless in here, please. Okay, Well, uh, several other steam people have written about the fact that the or Lindh Syria is really just a tiny amount of world supply and really insignificant relative of the cost that we’re gonna incur Trying to keep 500 soldiers and armored vehicles at these particular oil fields in the southern part of the northeast quadrant of Syria that is Gore’s or that oil field is the major oilfield in Syria. But overall, Scott, that all of their oil reserves in Syria amount 2.2% of the world’s oil supply is that mentioned our article. We fought a lot of wars and spent a lot of money in the Middle East for the last 40 years or so, trying to keep the oil flowing, but that had nothing to do with Syria because it’s just always been a drop in the bucket. And what is particularly almost ridiculous about what we hear it out of the White House these days. This idea that even if you could legally acquire that oil and several esteemed people like Daniel Harrison and others have published how the illegality of that just makes that even almost infeasible from the get go. But suppose you could get in there and get what now amounts to about 24,000 barrels a day of production of the Dahr is their fields. That oil, even by the Russians account, is only worth about $30 million a month. $30 million a month is all that oil is worth, and it’s actually contractually Sinai into the Russians anyhow. So you’d be not just stealing oil from the Syrian government. Be Jos to be sterile it from the Russians, which would have its own problems but be on TV last night and caught criminal. Douglas MacGregor People who follow your show Scott in antiwar dot com know that name because he’s the retired colonel that Daniel Macao Adams and Ron Paul said should have been the replacement National security advisor When John Bolton, gut cashier in a couple of about a Munther Citgo whenever that was so gentle. I really take anything that Colonel McGregor says, I think he’s got the right Foer accent. Ah, perspective. And he was on last night’s and that I finally got this number, Scott, that the cost for the US to keep a military presence in Superior and 2018 was get this $16.2 billion. 16 point. And that was when we had about 2000 troops in the country. And that’s just the deal, Idi. That’s not the CIA’s cost for paying the terrorists on the other side. Go ahead, sir. Oh, clearly, clearly. Well, there was a $1,000,000,000 of foreign aid in that number, which is hard. Maybe that’s just the money we pay. This occurred right now that you know the Syrian Democratic forces under General ah, general body, you know, to basically, you know, keep them running is a is a Basically a mercenary army is you know, that’s really all there are for the U. S. In that part of Syria. Medea That’s 16.2 bit quits. Scotto $1.4 billion a month. So we are deploying troops into Syria at a cost to US taxpayers of $1.4 billion a month to protect $30 million a month of oil revenues. Yes. What’s Oprah explain to me? We’re talking about government work here. That makes perfect sense. I know. Well, how s O? Anybody goes on TV like Lindsey Graham or President Kampeas other people and say we’re gonna kept these oil fields to repay the cost of keeping US troops And in Syria, I mean, that’s absurd. I mean, just in the numbers orders of magnitude, out of line, you know, right away. That’s just a bogus argument and statement. They should have brought Paul Wolfowitz out to sell it. Yeah, that would have been about the same amount of credibility and course it just I mean, so that just tells you right from the get go there, that this was never about some sort of economical project to try toe generate revenues to keep U. S forces in Syria. It was not about trying to let the Kurds have a revenue stream to keep their ah counterinsurgency efforts against Isis. Going, I mean, is I think I missed my article. It would have been much cheaper if the U. S d o d just have look, it’s gonna cost us $1.4 billion a month to keep soldiers in their toe. Pretend we’re protecting oil. Won’t just give that money to the Kurds and tell them by your own oil on the open market. Get our troops out of harm’s way and let the let the Syrian government eventually deal with long term disposition the oil in the country. So that’s again just starting from the simple numbers and fax. It never made any sense to say that this anything to do with, you know, keeping getting money to cover the cost. Of course, at that cost of the U. S. Troops and of course, doing that, any out would be pillar during another country’s oil, which would be a war crime in itself. So that’s Yukio just writes. Cross that one off. There’s any legitimate reason why were presumably keeping a military presence in Syria. Yeah, and you know, it does raise questions about force protection, too. I mean, I don’t think that there’s any opposing army anywhere nearby, despite any scaremongering about Iran or Hezbollah. They’re not gonna secon American base there. But Isis fighters might get a suicide bomber in there. Some leftover guys and you have. And we’ve seen this happen before, in Beirut and at Khobar and numerous times during Iraq war to where guys air essentially left wide open at a base and taken out in one big bomb. And so who knows if they even have enough? You know, I actually have a friend of my reddit room who said, What’s all this about? They sent armor to the oil fields. That can’t be right, because when I was in the military, we did the survey planning for that and decided it can’t be done. So that’s not that can’t be right. And I says, Well, here’s read it and weep, man. Here’s all the Bradleys They’re going and called it in a task and purpose. The headline was Operation turned the F around and go back Thio, take over these oil fields and he’s saying, Oh my God, it’s this view, guys, and I don’t know all the military terminology perfectly or whatever he’s saying like Oh, it must be such a small fraction of a division sent there and was such a long tail of a supply line from there to Iraq. And with this is just at from a military, you know, planner, a lieutenant, colonel or or lower kind of point of view. This is just crazy to do. Some politician thought this was smart, but if he was one of those fighters out there, he wouldn’t like it at all. Is what he was saying. Well, it seems, Scott, what happened is you can see how the Pentagon now is scrambling around trying to make this operational plan work. Yugo Wone that trumpet Lynndie Graeme announced almost off the cuff, Remember a week or so ago and you’re dead, right? That there’s operationally having been in Iraq and haven’t been in Anbar and Bin Diyala side, the big base that they’re using the support. The Dahr reserve fields were out 200 kilometers, maybe two and 50 kilometers across the border into Syria. And that’s the base, by the way, that’s the base. We also launched the Chinooks from to do the Bin Ghandi raid a pinto up in the province, you know, a couple weeks ago. So that’s that’s the big operational footprint that the U. S still hasn’t Iraqis. Only big bass we still have. When I was there in 070 wait, we had five or six big air bases Bin. Now we’re down to just this one. They’re a little bit outside of the west of Baghdad and Anbar Province, and that’s kind of why your friend is exactly right. The other than to give you some other numbers is that it’s not the cost of the soldiers that is running that number up to 16 day. And it’s the fact that soldiers cost. This is the number I know from Afghanistan. Cost about a $1,000,000 per year per soldier to put one in the field in a war zone, so that’s only $500 million a year. The rest of that money, Scott, is what your friend said. It’s the air support from the air base is over, and the person golf is the quick response teams, in this case, probably from al Assad, is the net evac The metal back is really the key issue here because the D. O. D. Has a rule that familiar with from both Iraq and Afghanistan, they will not put a U. S. Combat soldier in a situation where they can not get a medevac helicopter to him. Get him out, I say him or her. But most of these operational people don’t love over man. At that point, get them back out to a what they call a Rove Nature Roll three medical facility, which is basically a trauma center with Western quality doctors. And I can tell you the only place in that part of the world that there’s a roll three NATO medical center is al Assad. So they’re really counting on keeping Al Assad is a U. S. Footprint in that part of the world the Middle East area between Syria, Jordan and Iraq. Can you keep these troops deployed there at Dahr Sauron? And that’s why the rial viability of that presence in mission depends on the Iraqi government. Continue to let the U. S military retained Al Assad is an operational base in that area and run. There’s not gonna be real happy about the let the U. S. Run anti isis missions like the one to get Baghdad e, but you that government, as you know, has got its problems right now and they’re gonna really let the U. S. Military run war profiteering missions into Syria to steal the Syrians oil out of Al Assad. So if the government doesn’t fall, which could happen, as you know, is likely that with the pressure from Iran, his influence, the fact that the Grand Ayatollah Soltan, who is the support of the most authoritative voice in the country, has already said he wants foreign influence in her in Afghan and Iraq toe no cease to get it out, which includes the U. S. Probably to some extent, Iran. And of course, he’s upset that Israel is running missions into their based on U. S. Intelligence that they probably get from the U. S. Footprint in Iraq. So that’s gonna that’s gonna really dictate. So, you know, no matter what Washington says and what the Congress says, once they get to the point where we lose al Assad is a footprint, I can almost tell your listeners that we’re going to be out of Syria. Could it’s just not feasible toe. Maintain those people there in that dangerous situation. You can fly F sixteen’s overhead, all that sort of stuff. But when a soldier gets wounded her seriously, they’ve got to get a medevac in there to get him out. And those those missions, they’re not going to run from Jordan Mencken. It’s what it’s actually too far away. They can probably run tow outs in F. That’s that’s probably legitimate, President. It’s there because they’re relatively close of this space in eastern Syria called H four, which is a sort of a drone base there that they could probably at least get helicopters for those guys and they begin it back. Come on or something for the proper medical care. But that’s gonna be that’s gonna be Lt Dov May turned out to be sustainable to some extent, the night duty. Even people like Scott Ritter knows a lot more about this, and I to even doubts that’s even possible and certainly sees the Dahr Ansar presence is something that’s just not gonna be operationally feasible. Once they really analyze this thing further, hang on just one second. Hey, guys, ever tell you about liberty stickers dot com? It’s just nothing but anti government propaganda for the back of your truck. I invented most of them the good ones, anyway, Anti war stuff. Anti cops making fun of all the candidates in the upcoming election. Liberty stickers dot com Hey, guys, check out the great lineup of podcasts we’ve got going on over at the Libertarian Institute. There’s me foreign policy and focused with Call Anzalone Freeman Beyond the Wall with Peak, Winona’s a k A Man’s Raider, The Liberty Weekly podcast with Patrick Macfarlane and Keith Night, and our newest addition, Jen Libertarian with Jen Monroe. Check them all out at Libertarian Institute Dot or GE. Hey, guys, don’t think it be cool if you could go to college, but Tom Woods was the dean of the thing. Yeah, well, something like that. Check out liberty classroom dot com, where Tom Woods went, had his pick of all the best professors to teach their courses in, uh, the real history and economics that you didn’t learn when you went to college the first time around, or maybe didn’t learn because you skipped your higher education altogether. But, ah, here’s some riel American history and some real economics, the kind of stuff that you’ve been missing. It’s all liberty classroom dot com and make sure to click through the link in the right hand margin of my website. Scott horton dot ord. All right, I’m talking with Ron Ends Wyler writing for anti war dot com, former Air Force and U. S aid and we’re talking about Trump pulled the troops out of northeastern Syria, where they were standing between the Kurds and the Turks, and that situation is more or less resolving itself. You can comment on that a little bit if you like, but just setting up here that Trump started to pull those troops out into Iraq. And then, as you say in your article here, Jack Keane, the author of the Iraq and Afghan Surges Sorry the failed Iraq and Afghan surges went on TV and said, Hey, Trump, you gotta steal that oil or else someone else is going to get it or something like that. And it was that easy to get Trump to turn right around and order this toe happen. And so this is where we get back to what you mentioned, that this is absolutely illegal. In fact, the war in Syria the D. O. D. Presents itself is completely illegal. The O. M. F doesn’t count against Isis and the government under Obama when they launched Iraq War three at which includes eastern Syria, didn’t argue that it did, really. They just went ahead anyway. And the sovereign government of Syria has said We’re not welcome this old time, so we’re not allowed there at all, and then much less to come in and outright steal. The resource is which is against the international law that the United States of America wrote for the rest of the world. And what’s even more ridiculous, Scott, Because that, of course, is right on this idea that an American oil company and of course, Trump’s Pacifica mentioned Exxon Mobil. Someone other in the middle of this war zone would go in there and effect with the U. S. Force protection as minimal as it is and basically invest what probably needs to be a couple $1,000,000,000 to bring that oil field Dahr solar field back up to its pre war production. Probably that particular field might be in the 300,000 barrels per day range Total serial range before the war is about 4000. But I mean that you just mentioned that no U. S oil company is going to be involved in pillaging another country’s oil. They’re not gonna make a capital investment in a country that’s in a war zone. I think I think of my article. I mentioned Yalom. McGurk was the terrorist advisor there for the government actually ran this idea past Rex Tillerson when he was secretary of state. And obviously, if anybody knows how Exxon Mobil operates and makes decisions just Rex Dulles and their ex CEO and even said, this is completely illegal as we got the Syrian government in the Russians who have the contractual rights involved in the whole project and neither one had ideas. So plus, you look at it that potentially with restored fields that could be a $5 billion a year revenue, remember revenue or is not profit. Someone has to invest money. Someone has to operate the field. Someone has to transport the oil, so you might need a couple $1,000,000,000 out of that. You normally would pay the host country royalty so that that would be required under a foreign direct investment situation. So there’s a couple $1,000,000,000 there that could net back to whatever government to the Syrian government, for example, which is mixing feasibility. But the conditions right now don’t even make that remotely possible so that you have to have the peace going. And that’s what makes it really meant. Have we all know that the only law for Exxon is money, not do anything that they want or Cannes up to the limit of what doesn’t make business sense? Then all of a sudden the law kicks in and, yeah, you know we can’t do it. And it’s obvious why it appeals to Trump. That’s what he always complained about. Iraq War two was the relative cost, he said. We didn’t even take the oil, which like what we’re gonna do, scoop it up with one big spoon and bring it home with us to pump later. But yeah, that that, of course, was completely I mean, getting. He’s just fueling up anti. This imperialism and pillar. Jane is just making us image in that part of the world. You know, all the more negative and society more terrorism because everyone thinks now it’s true. I remember not too long ago Assad himself when on TV and said, At least Trump is I liked Leupp being honest about what the U. S is doing is the most transparent president. Every cent question. Yeah, yeah, that at least he’s being honest about it. You know, he’s admitting what the U. S has always done. So I know. Tell you what. You know. If Trump is really a peacenik and was just trolling and trying to make everyone react against him in this way, it would be perfect. Unfortunately, no, he’s really that horrible, but it would be perfect. Trolling Efraim Joscelyn Wasat. It’s not even nail that it’s all the lobby’s that were that control Washington You know, the oil lobby, the he mentioned. The arms industry lobby didn’t exactly mention the Israeli lobby, but that was implied in what he said. So, yeah, I mean, the lobby’s air controlling these decisions by the Pentagon and the Congress on howto maintain. This is what you know, Daniel Harrison said, was exactly right. We just made up three or four reasons why we would You need to keep a U. S troop presence in Syria, But it’s all about, you know, stopping the so called Shia Crescent supply line from Iran into Damascus. And yeah, that’s exactly what time it is. All of Altona is all about. That was right on that highway. But the presence there in the not too far away and in Syria is also intended to keep the U. S presence there and hopefully revived the or the war with the Kurds. The Syrian defense forces to try toe this crazy idea, Scott, that we need to guard those fields to keep Isis from coming in and taking the whale when isis has no operational capability. No present is to do that no capital or run that type operation. That’s just another just, you know, made of idea toe try, toe, get the U. S. Public. Someone other support this and all the talking heads on television, of course. Say that Which is, of course I mean the other course. Ridiculous. Wone that mission. My article is the idea of we leave or Ron’s gonna come in there and take the oil when you know 30 million barrels, $30 million a month is a drop in the bucket, even though what they’re now generating, even with the sanctions in terms of or Lindh hydrocarbon Rove profits. So they’re gonna go in there and jeopardize their chance to get back to their 4.5 million barrels a day. You know, 43 or $4 billion a month type of revenues to get uneasily Amman Hadar Oil out of Syria, which would have to fight their allies, Russia and the Assad government even take so that just we went. I mean, the all the absurdities of these bad guys. After that, we’re tryingto protect against her. Just all just straw, man, that got put up to sort of justified the presents to, you know, basically satisfy the And by the way, that article was on anti war dot com today, the one from The Spectator in the UK by John Bradley. He just nails that right to the final fact that this is all about Trumpian to get re elected based on keeping the evangelicals happy and the pro Israel lobby happy and leaving a few troops. They’re saying we’re tryingto protect Israel from the Syrian aggression in that part of the world is fundamentally the rationale Why, where even spending $16 billion of taxpayer money to protect a teeny amount of oil, which is not even Taba Stasi related to the reality of the situation Yep. I’m gonna go back to your point about the bait and switch here where this isn’t about. Oh, we have to protect the Syrian Kurds. That’s Obaid and Switch. And it’s not even a bait and switch. Foer. Well, we really have to stay there to fight Isis, not they’ve been essentially eliminated and obliterated from Eastern serious, not Isis. The real jihadists in Syria, everybody knows, are American turkeys pets up in the Midland Province in the northwest of it. So it’s not that it’s a double extra bait and switch. It’s all about Iran. And what about Iran? As you said, it’s not preventing them from getting the oil and running off with it. It’s about then being able to move things by truck into Syria when they can fly stuff anyway. And when. If there’s a solution to the problem off the jeopardy of the Kurds and the vulnerability of the rest of the Syrians, including the Kurds, to the last remnants of the presence off the Islamic state in eastern Syria, the obvious solution is for the Syrian government, with the help of the Iranian and Hezbollah and Russian friends to reestablish their territorial monopoly with their army in that country to keep the Turks out, to keep Isis down and to try toe, rebuild their country, put it back together again, and then you have this great quote in this piece just kills me where they admit outright that that is really what they’re trying to prevent more than anything. Same reason they built up these jihadist forces in the first place is the same reason they want to keep serial broke. Not because they hate Syria, not cause even they hate Assad. Or they just don’t want to see Syria rebuilt in resentment for them defeating our Al Qaeda friends there in this war. But just so that they remain a financial burden on Iran. And the truth is Scott the only entity that once they separate Kurdistan there in the northeast Syria, which is kind of what, of course, the Syrian Kurds were aiming towards a legend. The U. S. Promised them, which I can assure you they did not. But that is basically Israel would like to see a separate Kurdistan because it lets the only one country around there. There’s a little bit of a good relationship there, and they get along somewhat and, of course, the U S. And just backs that. And but, you know, creating a separate Kurdistan there in eastern Syria would just, you know, that would cause all sorts of Bronx Turki with Iran. You know, they all have Kurdish minorities in their area. And it’s really funny, Scott, because I was in Iraq in 07 or eight. The idea. Irgun Arak up into three separate entities. Kurt, the Iraqi Kurdistan of the North and she and the South and the Sunnis in the West. That was vetoed. Bye Washington Simply because they knew that creating the Illing, Iraqi Kurdistan become autonomous country or even south Kobani region would be completely anathema. Toe Iran, Syria, Well, Iran and Turkey. And of course, at that point, Syria and not really got into a civil war yet, So it should also be against all that. So they backed off that idea, which actually might Hameed Arak a more stable place, long term. But that’s always been not a viable scenario, which is so interesting now that we we flipped out when Wone, 80 saying that we need a separate Kurdistan in that part of the world Theo, hold back Iran from being more powerful in tow. You know, keep Shias you mentioned exactly. Right. Keep keep the Assad government in a weak position of not even overthrown at some point basically, to make that part of the world a safer place for the the Israeli Zionist, you know, which, by the way, your article. Your podcast. Khalis. Oprah Shelton. Rachman was just so informed ship on the whole subject. I really listen to it. Listen to that one. Because I think he nailed it, too. Of course, that’s what this is all about. I mean, you can’t really say that in the US press, but the U. S. Suspected from the UK and John Bradley. Hoboken say that, and he actually did an excellent article, which I encourage everyone to read on anti war dot com because he’s is spot on to what’s really going on here. Yep, all domestic politics. And ah, it’s interesting, innit? Right away. Domestic politics, rules, foreign policy and foreign policy rules, domestic politics. And it’s just stuck like this in the Yeah, there’s no way around it, and it’s just let’s face, it’s got no matter works out of the al Yugo to that just aren’t good options out there. Who’s going to really be a change agent and really get us off this situation that in my book I talk about how it’s just, you know, we’re just going off the cliff here in terms of financial solvency of our country, creating enemies around the world. Everything we do, you know, this that is the answer. It’s it’s the broken dollar that’s gonna finally in this, Uh, yeah, for a politician makes the right goal, that’s for sure. I think I think David Stockman is called that a couple times. And of course he knows what he’s talking about. So I think that’s probably where this and unfortunately, the political process isn’t going to solve. It even matter who you elect initial X. I’m gonna says they’re gonna do all this. The Washington establishment just mowed them under, you know, just, you know, I appreciate soc Gabb, but she’s got the right message. And by the way, she did file legislation trying to deal with the legality of what we’re doing in Syria. But you think there’s any chance nasty places don’t bring that up for a vote of course not. You will never see. Our democracy does not work when it comes to challenging the status quo in Washington. Yeah, as Tom Woods law. No matter who you vote for, you always get John McCain. Ah, that’s a good Harlingen. So that maybe rest in peace kiss. You know, he’s the big he and Lynndie Graeme and jacking that you mentioned the big liars about Obama pulled the troops out of Iraq and that he created Isis. When the truth is the Grand Ayatollah Yasar Taayie had already said Get these troops out of here. And that’s what caused, you know, the status of forces agreement not to be extended. And that’s why we got kicked out of nothing. Do with Obama in the No, no, thank you. I would have never come back if it hadn’t have been for Obamas support for their efforts in Syria next door. I mean, you know, in real time, Patrick Coburn warned on this show G. I just got back from Baghdad and all the Shia leaders there are saying American support for the Sunni insurgency in Syria is re energizing the Sunni insurgency hair and that is this really what we’re doing. How changing sides as long as you’re on that side of the line. We all saw it coming for years before they took Mosul on created the caliphate. So and I think the bottle on your Scott is that foreign intervention has unintended consequences, and we’re never gonna be able to make these things work. When there’s so many interrelated parts and variables, once you intervene, take out a government of regime change. Start bombing people. You create enemies. The facts on the ground change, you get stuck in a quagmire. I mean, thank goodness there’s a few people in Washington like I mentioned Colonel McGregor in Colonel Workers and, by the way, was Kolache piles chief of staff. Although they don’t have the same has good ideas to on this. And you kind of wish these other talking to his generals, you know, guys like Petraeus and the Crystal and Jack Keane and the Crave Inn. John Allen. These are all guys that were in Iraq when I was in Afghanistan. I was over there. These guys are just, you know, they’re just propaganda pieces for the War state and what actually what? Pepe Cannes and calls the warfare state. So you really, really got You know, it’s amazing how these guys get so much publicity and there’s time when they’re just proven losers in terms of the strategy and the execution of war plans that we’ve been through for the last 15 18 years. And you know what? You could be 10 years old and never heard these arguments at all. And all you have to know is that this war started back in 2000 and one, and we’re having this conversation now, eight years later, we’ve been trying really hard to kill the 400 guys who, you know, were in the group that attacked us back then and somehow we just created 40,000 of them. I just don’t know if you have to know anything about it, but that to know that something’s not right here. And, you know, we’ve spent an additional 7.5 being in military spending over that period. And even the people in charge now admit that you make sure you’re safe today than they were. I’m sorry, Trey. And yet you’re right. I’m sorry. Yeah, it’s our guys. These numbers, right? With what are you talking about June 2003 course. That’s 1/3 of our current debt right now. $23 billion. $22 billion. So that’s 1/3 of that debt is simply this war on terror that we started in 2000 and one and two and then continue today and buy any Wonsan mission. Since we kill Baghdadi, they’d come back. And Orwell, it’s not over. They’re going to new leader. We’ve got to keep going to keep spending more money. We can’t bring anybody home. So I mean, this is endless. The famous endless war Is that your self perpetuating? Because it were fueling the terrorism that we’re presuming out there trying to defeat and, you know, having lived there and work there long as I did, I could see that in none of these, there’s no viable strategy other than get out of there That’s ever going to make Americans safer. And that’s you know, unfortunately, that’s not the political dynamic that’s in Washington right now. That’s anyway, anywhere close to being effectuated Aviv. No matter how our politics go. Yeah, All right. Well, thank you very much. Everybody, that is Ronald Ends Wyler. He used to be Ah, in the U. S. Air Force and also worked for US aid in Iraq and Afghanistan. And he’s the author of the book When will We Ever Learn? And you can find what he’s been writing lately at antiwar dot com. Thanks very much. You’re welcome. All right, Sean, that is anti war radio for this morning. Thanks very much for listening. I’m Scott Horton, editorial director of antiwar dot com and author of Fool’s Errand. Timed and the War in Afghanistan by my full interview archive. More than 5000 of them now going back to 2003 at scott horton dot org’s and I’m Here Every Sunday morning from 8 39 on KPFK 90.7 f m Cnet.[/expand]