All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show.
I am the Director of the Libertarian Institute, Editorial Director of Antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and I've recorded more than 5,000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org.
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All right, you guys, on the line, I've got Michael Heiss.
He's the founder of the Mises Caucus of the Libertarian Party.
Welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
I'm good, Scott.
Thanks for having me.
Happy to have you here, and you've got some big news for us today about some progress on an important issue in your town there, Norristown, Pennsylvania, huh?
Yeah, man, I feel like I always have good news.
I'm living in an unreality anymore, but I just saw a news story the other day that here in Norristown, Pennsylvania, my city council has voted to advertise the fact that they are going to be decriminalizing marijuana, and that was an effort that I led, and it didn't take nearly as much effort as you might think.
Really?
That's great.
So tell us the whole story.
There's not too much of a story to tell.
I mean, me and my girlfriend, Emily, moved out here from Amish country a little over a year ago, and I started attending the city council meetings and just kind of showing my face and getting a who's who of the people there and everything.
After a couple of the meetings, I walked up to the chief of police, and he attends the meetings and introduced myself and said, hey, man, so what's the state of marijuana decriminalization here in Norristown?
And to my surprise, he goes, I don't know, but you know, it's time, and I was shocked by this, because chief of police, police unions, all that stuff, I've looked into it.
Not a lot, but we get federal money here for the war on drugs poured into our little town.
So I was really taken aback that he was all for it and basically said, you know, nobody's doing the work, but if somebody did the work, I would support it.
And I said, OK, I'll be that guy.
And so I was expecting to have to hit the streets and knock doors and all this stuff, but I didn't get to that, honestly.
I showed up to the next city council meeting and, you know, put myself down to get time to speak publicly and spoke to why I think decriminalization should be the way we go here.
And, you know, I gave my libertarian reasons, and I also gave my, I gave them their political reasons.
And what I mean by that is, so Norristown, Pennsylvania, there's only like 37,000 people here or something like that, and of the voting population, it's 75 plus percent Democrat, and like the entire board is Democrat.
So in 2017, the Democrat Party of Pennsylvania adopted marijuana legalization as part of their platform.
And we implemented a medical program here, but there's, there's no, there's not enough support to get recreational here in Pennsylvania because the Republicans control both sides of the House, and there's not a single Republican that will get behind legalization.
So I basically said there, went there and said, look, you know, it's part of your platform.
There's 70 percent Democrat or 70 percent plus Democrat here.
This is a home run.
You know, it's going to be popular.
It's going to be something that everybody wants, and it shouldn't really be taking me some random libertarian kid, you know, to come in and point this out.
So I ended up going back, and this was for another presentation, but this was actually like a back and forth conversation more than just me speaking into the ether, you know.
And so I reached out to an organization here in Pennsylvania called the Keystone Cannabis Coalition, and they're headed up by a guy named Les Stark, who, he was actually a Ron Paul supporter, and he's, he's since gone a little bit more to the left.
But nonetheless, he's, he is the, the weed lobbyist here in Pennsylvania.
And you know, I've had contact with him throughout the years, and so I reached out to him.
He came out and gave a great presentation with just polish that I lack.
You know, I'm very much so an activist and, and not a, not a professional.
And so he, he was able to connect with them on a, on a level that I couldn't.
But you know, after that, I just kind of kept up on them and, and, and sent them emails and said, hey, is there any updates?
Hey, is there any updates?
And then finally, our governor here announced that he was in support of full legalization, and so did our attorney general.
And once that happened, I emailed them and said, hey guys, you know, it would be a good idea to support him on this now.
Why don't we get this going?
And you know, one of them messaged me back and said, you know, it's, it's coming.
Just be patient.
And that was maybe three weeks ago.
So this story broke two days ago that, that it was decriminalized here.
And that's really all it took.
I mean, it's, it took a few city council meetings, being willing to be first and introduce myself and, and my intentions.
And I brought the language to them too.
I think that was a big part of it.
It took all the work away from it, took all the work away from them.
You know, we, we've had a couple other towns here in Pennsylvania or cities that have decriminalized it.
And essentially I looked through all of those towns and found the least restrictive one and just took out the city of Lancaster, replaced it with municipality of Norristown and boom.
That's great, man.
So far be it for me to try to teach my audience to believe in democracy and that you can make a difference.
But Hey, apparently you found a margin and you moved it in a way that is quite admirable.
So man, I'm really happy to hear that because Hey, yeah, at the end of the day, this means less people shot, less people's families broken up, less people sent to jail, less jobs lost, less probation meetings that have to be attended, less every horrible thing that should have never been part of the rule of law in the state of Pennsylvania in the first place, man.
So that really is huge.
It sounds like a trivial thing.
Oh, Hey, let's smoke a joint.
But the consequences of having it be legal or illegal are just so huge either way, you know?
So you know what I mean?
Positive consequences.
I mean, for the legal way and there's, well, there's ripple effects too.
You know, I mean, this is, this is going to help put pressure on the state and then the more states that nullify the feds, the more pressure is put on the feds.
And you know, now there's that, uh, there was just that committee vote, uh, at the national level to, to approve a vote for, uh, I don't know if it was legalizing or de scheduling marijuana or something like that, but, um, the other ripple effect is, is, so now I've gained a little bit of credibility, right?
Like I've gained a little bit of a, a little, a few points off of this and I'm a, I'm a hardcore libertarian.
I'm not going to stop at weed, you know?
So, um, what, another one of the benefits that was, that was here was, um, there's a state Senator named Dalen Leach.
His office is about five minutes away from my, um, my apartment and he's leading the charge for legalization here in, in Pennsylvania.
And uh, so he was supportive and he was positively quote, or he quoted, he quoted positively in the news story about this being advertised.
So I ended up reaching out to him and saying, you know, I thank you for your support and, and told him point blank.
And I'm like, so just so you know, I have another trick up my sleeves.
I'm probably going to wait a couple months, but the plan next is for me to, um, put together a presentation and get all my, my ducks in a row and, and basically make a presentation on why we should decriminalize psychedelics next.
And again, to my shock, the state Senator said, I'd really like to see that presentation.
And this is for a state that can't get recreational past.
Yeah, man, that's great.
And you know, Hey, all the same arguments apply.
I mean, not all the same ones, but many of the same ones apply.
And especially when it comes to psychedelics, I don't know exactly how it is now or in your state, but historically speaking, you could get decades in prison for possessing LSD and things like that in any kind of quantity, which is just crazy.
It's based on just ridiculous panic type emotions at the time that those laws and penalties were passed and, uh, you got people who spent their whole lives, died in prison over having a sheet acid or maybe even quite a bit less than that.
Yeah.
And it's all about just how to talk to them, you know, cause I went there and, and I gave my presentation and I made my points.
I made my philosophical points, you know, I didn't want to shy away from who and what I am and why I feel this way, but you know, I, I threw them a bone too and, and, and put in some social justice issues and, and, you know, they actually vocally appreciated that.
And, and so it's all on the record and, and the, the outcome is there's one less law in the books for something that is common practice, I'm sure for the people around here.
So, um, you know, it's, it's a, it's a big win and I think it's a, or at least for me in my town and, uh, you know, I don't got to be afraid anymore.
Hey, and that's something, I mean, instead of looking over your shoulder just cause you got a little bit of weed, you know, Hey, it doesn't matter that I do.
How about that?
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Hey, listen, let's talk about Jacob Hornberg.
Wait, let's first talk about the Mises caucus.
What's the Mises caucus.
So the Mises caucus, uh, it's about almost three years while it's going on three years old now is, uh, it's essentially a grassroots effort to, uh, blow on the embers of the Ron Paul revolution and reignited within the libertarian party.
And to get all these Ron Paul warriors, all the Mises Institute fans, all the 10th amendment center fans, all the Scott Horton fans, uh, every, that whole movement that kind of coalesced around Ron Paul, this, uh, and, and get that same energy and intensity and passion and get it rolling in the libertarian party.
Uh, and I know there's a lot of people who think that the libertarian party is irredeemable, but I think with the proper strategy, like a local only or a local first strategy, like what, like what we're implementing, you actually can see results.
And we've seen, uh, results in a lot of ways.
I mean, both political and, uh, you know, the message, uh, we, we've got all the voices of the, of the liberty movement behind us at this point.
You know, this is not, the weed thing is a victory, but it's not the first victory that we've had.
I mean, we had a local level victory in Denver, Colorado, where we helped them, uh, decriminalize shrooms.
You know, right now we have a contract with, uh, uh, Jose Nino with who some of your writers might know he writes for the, uh, for the Mises Institute, um, to organize and manage an effort to get second amendment legislation introduced in five towns in Texas.
Uh, so that's, that's what we do.
We, we support local level libertarian candidates.
We, we, uh, initiate and jump on board issue coalitions from both sides of the spectrum.
And we do this all while waving the flag of Austrian economics and the wars and the fed and, and just the spirit of the Ron Paul revolution.
Man, that's great.
So, um, now here's the thing of it.
I've been on the outside of the libertarian party this whole time.
I just joined it, but I, I was associate.
Yeah.
And I guess I was associated with the bed NARC, uh, group and you know, he was from Austin and so I know all the Austin guys and a lot of the Texas guys.
And um, I was a foreign policy advisor to him for what it was worth at that time.
And um, so I know a lot of those guys and they're all pretty dang libertarian.
And I know that people have their problems with some of the leadership and certainly with some of the choices that have been made for presidential candidates lately.
But I wonder just how, you know, representative those choices are, for example, of the thinking of the mass of the party membership that, yeah, what we really want is Bill Weld or more like, well, you know, given the circumstances, maybe this would be worth it for a thing, but that ultimately, you know, aren't all their hearts in the right place in the first place.
And so the question I'm working toward is, is your presence really that alien of a presence in the libertarian party or you're really doing what a lot of libertarians, including LP members all this time want to see and like participating in and, and don't reject it at all?
Or how does that work?
Exactly.
It's, it's a little bit of, it's, it's been a little bit of both.
I mean, and now some of it was self inflicted because, um, we, we were a really big lightning rod when we first entered the scene because we, we entered the scene swinging at leadership because of comments made by the chair and, you know, I'm not going to rehash all that now, but, but, but, um, point is, is we came out swinging at leadership right from the beginning and that made us a lightning rod.
And however, it just kept growing.
Now, when you talk strategy, everybody agrees with us.
Everybody in the party thinks that this is what we should do.
It should be local up.
We should build a bench.
Uh, we have to form, form connections in the community and burn, earn trust so that we can, you know, change minds and yada, yada, yada.
Um, as far as philosophically, um, again, most, I mean, most people like Ron Paul, but I think that, I think the biggest problem isn't so much the existing people in the party.
It's the fact that there's about 15,000 members of the party in a movement of millions and that the party has done a really bad job of recruiting those people and in their failure to recruit those people, they've done a really bad job of listening to those people.
You know, I only entered the, the, the libertarian party in, in 2016 and, uh, prior to that, I was an activist for 10 years.
You know, I, I earned my stripes doing cop blocking and, and writing and, and doing man on the street interviews and, and, and all of this kind of stuff.
And there's a lot, I think that, that spirit, that attitude kind of is, is more indicative of the movement as a whole than the party and the party has kind of pushed away a lot of libertarians.
So we're, we're trying to bring them back in.
And now with Jacob Hornberger, I think we have a perfect opportunity to kind of highlight the contrast because it's looking like it might be now Lincoln Chaffee hasn't formally announced yet, but he's making the motions like that's what he's going to do.
And what a big contrast that you have there, Lincoln Chaffee and Jacob Hornberger, you know, running for president and, and within the libertarian party.
So I think this really gives us a chance to show, to answer the question that you're answering or that you're asking basically to, to, to show that we, we are an activist party and not a politics first party, if you get what I'm saying.
Yeah.
So I'm being a little bit redundant now from my time on Tom Wood's show yesterday, which I guess is out today.
I don't know if it's out yet.
Probably is.
But it was something that I said to him, but that I think is really important here is that there is this false dichotomy in the movement between radicals and pragmatists.
And I mean, it's a real dichotomy, but it shouldn't have to be one at all.
And, but I want to be charitable to the pragmatist side of the story.
And I think you and I've talked about this before about a lot of times the radicals are missing the real point.
So they're radically this or they're radically that, but they're kind of at least somewhat maybe radically off target in terms of what it is that they're really about.
And I'm so sorry for picking on Ben Narek all the time.
He's a great guy.
I love him.
I'm just, this is just an example.
Business is business.
Okay.
He ran in 2004 against George W. Bush, mostly on the issue of, I promise not to take your guns, even though nobody in America, not one man in America thought George Bush was going to take his guns.
He'd let the assault weapons ban expire.
He was the Iraq war is who he was in this kind of thing.
And Lord knows we need radicalism on guns, but it, it's, it was rad.
It was like fetishism of just gun Ness kind of only at the exclusion of things that mattered.
That's not the best example.
A better example would be, you know, I don't know, abolishing all the sheriff's departments and privatizing everything or whatever in a way that just other people, regular people won't even understand.
And this is a party that's running for office.
It's sort of a minarchist premise in the first place, as far as that goes.
So all that just to say that if you're a moderate, a pragmatist, and you think that it is smart and right to run Lincoln Chafee and Gary Johnson and Bob Barr and these kinds of candidates, because they are kind of famous Republicans.
They do have some credibility and some fundraising possibilities and some media opportunities that maybe other candidates wouldn't get.
That all makes sense.
It makes sense on one hand to have a warmed over type Republican.
And it also makes sense that a lot of times the radicals are off target and they're not doing what's the right thing to bring people into the party.
But then, so that's all irrelevant, though, because that's the wrong kind of radicalism.
If we have the right kind of radicalism that's focused on what are the biggest public policy crises in America today, and there are lots of them, starting with the wars and central banking and boom and bust and on down the line.
And the radicalism isn't in some kind of crazy contest for who's the most libertarian man in the room, but just for who can address these real crises with great libertarian principle in a way that people can understand that that will show that radicalism is pragmatic.
That having a Jacob Hornberger character, just like, hey, if we could all magic wish Ron Paul 15 years younger and put him in here, there's no question that that kind of radicalism is exactly what would create a new Ron Paul revolution about what he has to say and what he's doing.
And that kind of thing.
And so I'm just trying to be charitable to the pragmatist side because they got a lot of good points.
It's just that if we have the right kind of radical, then he ought to satisfy them, too.
If what it is that they want is new members and new donors and new libertarians and move the ball forward, then this is the kind of thing we need to do.
We need to run a Ron Paul type revolution with a guy like Jacob Hornberger, who's a great runner up to Ron Paul after all.
Yeah.
And there's a Rothbard article called The Case for Radical Idealism that I think surmises all of this perfectly.
And I think the best way to put it is to always, always state what you want while taking what you can get.
So I want to resent that, that every time I'm smart about anything, there's already a Rothbard thing that says that.
Anyway, go ahead.
What we discussed earlier with the decriminalization, I think, is almost like a perfect example of it in real life.
Yes, I want complete abolition of the drug war.
I think it's an abomination.
I think it's torn up all kinds of families and done all this nasty stuff.
And that's what the principles I'm going to put forward.
But all right, at the local level, I'll take getting weed.
All right, now that I got weed, how about some shrooms?
How about acid?
How about DMT?
How about all these other things?
And once I get that, maybe I'll say, all right, well, how about MDMA next, which is ecstasy?
And then once I get that, how about cocaine next?
We should end the drug war.
You've got to take what you can get while always pushing forward for what you want.
And as far as the whole PRAG versus RAD thing, I think you got a good point.
Where the rubber kind of meets the road, at least intra-party wise, is the PRAGs are worried about vote totals, because vote totals help determine ballot access.
And that's where I think a lot of their primary concern is.
And so they are willing to basically sacrifice principle so that the rest of the candidates in the party might be able to hold on to some ballot access and do their thing without having to get signatures or fight lawsuits or all this kind of thing.
But my whole point is, so Gary Johnson got, I think it was 4.3 million votes, right?
Now I said earlier that there was about 15,000 members of the LP.
So even if, let's just for the sake of argument say that at the beginning of the Gary Johnson campaign that there was zero members of the LP, and then said, okay, all 15,000 of them are as a result of the Johnson campaign, which is definitely not the case.
But for the sake of argument, let's just say that's the case.
That's still less than 1% of 4.3 million.
You know, like it's, we're not doing a very good job of retaining people and we're not doing a very good job of retaining people because we're not, we haven't done a good job of changing the way that people look at the world.
We haven't done a good job of actually giving a meaningful alternative.
We've tried to regress towards the mean a little bit and say that we're the reasonable centrist alternative or something like this.
And instead of trying to rock people's paradigms, and that's what gets people fired up.
Yeah, absolutely true.
And of course the, uh, the Ron Paul example is right there to see that even within the liberty, even within the Republican party, teaching that libertarian message essentially was brand new to most Americans.
They never heard anybody who was good on this, that, and the other thing all at the same time and had a voting record to prove it.
It was just, remember he went on Colbert and Colbert, the, the character Colbert said, you're a mystery wrapped in an enigma and all is it was Ron Paul was intriguing to people because he went out there, he taught them the truth and put principle on the line every single time and never backed down whenever they challenged him with whatever it was.
And um, so yeah, and look, there was also special circumstances in 2016 where it's the two worst candidates that you could ever run.
And so those were really all just protest votes.
Those weren't pro Johnson votes.
Those were just, I dissatisfied that I'm being forced to choose between these two votes.
And that's not too much to brag about.
As you say, the proof is in the fact that there's no real residual increase in membership.
By the way, I don't know if we talked about this before, but I was told by an old libertarian party hand that the bubble in membership or the increase in membership during Harry Brown's campaign was mostly a bubble because the deal was if you donate to the Harry Brown campaign, you get a free membership to the libertarian party.
So almost all of that just kind of came and went.
Baden Narek on the other hand actually did a good job in 04 of building up the libertarian party at least by, you know, whatever margin, because he really worked at that and really tried to inspire people and was good at inspiring people.
You know, in small crowds, he never did attract a mass audience or anything like that, but he did a good job of teaching libertarianism to a lot of people.
He did bring in some new people, but then no one has brought in new members.
No candidacy for president since then, Bob Barr or either Gary Johnson campaign have done anything to bring anyone into the party at all this whole time since then.
That's a huge opportunity for us, I think.
Yeah, and to put it into perspective, the libertarian party currently has less than half of the membership that it did in the early 2000s.
There might be more Scientologists in this country than registered libertarians.
Which is a problem.
And you know, I mean, I guess I went to the convention in 04 and it was all great people, man.
I mean, these were all people and also Hortenberger's kind of an old guy.
He ain't Generation X.
He's a boomer.
And he founded the Future Freedom Foundation 30 years ago.
And he's been writing and has been a libertarian activist this whole time ever since then.
So he has old friends all over the place, including all throughout the party and all throughout the country that probably most of whom he forgot about or doesn't remember meeting, but they sure remember him.
And so, you know, it ain't difficult to convince people to support Hortenberger.
It's about as hard as saying, hey, did you hear Hortenberger's running?
And they go, oh yeah, Jacob Hortenberger from the thing?
Yeah, dude.
All right.
And everybody's for it because they already know they've never caught him slipping before.
He's good on everything.
He really is, too.
I don't mind saying that.
I agree with his stance on essentially every single thing.
And you know, even on just the news of the day, whether it's a directly libertarian issue or it's just a matter of who's lying or not, he always can tell.
I mean, he's a really sharp guy.
He understands all of the current events, all of the policy, all of the principle, 100% of the time, totally uncompromising.
And yet a very sweet guy, right?
As Tom Woods was saying on the show last night and reemphasizing about how, you know, he's just a really nice guy.
You can't help but like him.
And he's, even when he's saying the most confrontational words, he says them very matter of factly and very, hey, sorry if you don't like it, but it's true because that's the way it is.
And he never backs down in that same Ron Paul-ian fashion.
He's so good at that.
And I don't know, anyway, I'm just so excited about this, man.
I'm really grateful that we have you and your kind of network of supporters who are interested in just this kind of candidacy that Jacob is offering here.
And I think we can make such a huge thing out of it.
And yeah, I mean, I think we've provided a natural home for his supporters.
I think we've laid groundwork for him that wouldn't otherwise be there, frankly.
And that's not just me and that's not just my team, but that's also all of you guys, you podcasters.
You know, you guys have all gotten behind me.
You know, Tom Woods is funneling his audience towards us.
Dave is funneling his audience towards us.
Pete Quinonez is funneling his audience.
You're funneling your audience, you know.
And I don't mean to say towards us, but in the party.
And it's just going to be natural osmosis because, you know, we're the Ron Paul revolution in the Libertarian Party, and that's what all of your guys' audience is.
It's just about convincing people to get engaged.
And I think the most convincing way to do that isn't through arguments, but it's through leading by example.
And I think that's why people responded to Ron the way that he did.
And I think that's why, you know, all these years later, there's people who still, I mean, that was the best time of my life, you know what I mean, like personally.
And I know I'm not the only person that feels something like that.
And it resonated so deeply with us that the fire is still burning all these years later.
You don't have that with Gary Johnson.
You know, I mean, there's some people who got turned on by, you know, like Larry Sharp is like the exception that, you know, disproves the rule, I guess, where Larry Sharp got turned on by Gary Johnson.
But generally speaking, you don't see the, put it this way, it was the Gary Johnson campaign, not the Gary Johnson revolution.
You know, it wasn't the, it just didn't have the same spirit.
And I'm saying that as somebody who experienced it.
And it's, in a lot of ways, it was my comparison between the Ron Paul revolution and the experience of the Gary Johnson campaign and just how night and day it was and how fun versus how miserable the experience was and that kind of catalyzed the Mises caucus in the first place.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, that's good to hear.
And, you know, so I think that's really great, right, that the, the Libertarian, as far as I can tell so far, right, you have sort of this younger, new generation of Libertarian Party activists coming in with your group and, but what you're essentially here to support is something that it's essentially like kicking open an open door that Hornberger already has at a party full of friends who are happy to see him come back and try to do this sort of thing.
So there really shouldn't be anything to fight about.
I would hate if the people who are the 13,000, who are the members of the party now feel like there's some real takeover.
It shouldn't be like that.
It should feel more like, Hey, great.
The Libertarian movement is joining the party by the thousands for this guy that we all love anyway.
And just because of how great he is.
And so, all right, well, you know, there shouldn't be anything to fight about there at all.
High fives all around and drink beers and be happy, man.
We got a great candidate.
There was some of that sentiment at first and I probably bear some blame for that because like I said, we really came out swinging hard, but, but the last thing that anybody ever expected us to do was to stick around, to recruit organizers around the entire country to form a pack.
You know, we have a political action committee now to raise money, to support local level candidates financially, to get involved in issue coalitions, to recruit, to, you know what I mean?
Nobody ever expected us to do that.
So there, there's definitely been at least somewhat of a tide shift there where reasonable people can see, even if they don't like us, can respect us and that's, I care about being respected a lot more than being liked.
And and the unreasonable people, I don't think there's anything that's ever going to be done to appease them.
So, but yeah, no, you're, you're absolutely right.
Hornberger is, is the next in line of for the Ron Paul revolution and I'm, I'm excited for it.
I'm ready for it.
I'm ready to relive those times.
I'm ready to, to get a whole new generation of people lit up for Liberty.
Yeah.
Me too.
And I know I'm being redundant as hell for my audience, all my different interviews and whatever, if you heard this, but it's such an important and obvious point that it ain't too late.
It's early.
We got a year.
We got half a year till the convention, half a year, and we have another half a year to turn the world upside down after that.
So we have, we have a great party to throw, man.
We have half a year for the national convention, but the state conventions where the delegates are selected are, are incoming.
So anybody that wants to, um, you know, join the libertarian party or wants to support Jacob or, or most importantly, potentially become a delegate to go to the national convention, you should become a member of your state party now.
And you should start going to your county level, a libertarian party and, and networking and doing some work now.
And then that way you can get yourself a delegate spot and, and ensure the victory.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
And I feel like such a fool too, because I was supposed to go to the meeting here in Travis County on Tuesday night.
And in fact, I made the little newsletter list that I had joined the party and was going to show up and beat the drum for Hornberger.
And I forgot all about it and didn't go, so now I have to wait a month.
So by the way, Austin, Travis County Libertarians listening, um, I kind of got a hold of my head.
I remember everything I read, but nothing else.
And so, and less and less of that these days.
So remind me if you think you hadn't heard from me and I might be missing something important because I got to really start working this into my schedule.
I have not been an LP activist this whole time and, uh, but I really, uh, this is one of my very highest priorities for this year.
Absolutely.
Is doing everything I can to promote Jacob and to help him in any way I can.
And, um, and like you, I'm really looking forward to it because I already know it's going to work.
I already know we've got nothing but positive reactions from everybody, everywhere, essentially Hornberger.
You don't say that's what they all say.
And so that's what we're going to do, man, is we're going to cook meat outside and drink beers and, you know, hopefully not crash on the way home and support Jacob Hornberger's revolution.
Somebody come up with a good font.
That's what we need, man, to get started here, huh?
Yeah.
Either that or a good tagline.
We got it.
We got to get a good tagline for him.
Yeah.
Well, I've got a few ideas I just thought of, but we're going to have to whittle them down on change them up a little bit, but yeah.
How about this is all bumper sticker of mine and we use this for bad Narek for a short while.
It was death and taxes.
How about life and Liberty?
But see now, cause then you're starting with the negativity there.
People don't like that.
Yeah.
Come up with something.
Maybe just life and Liberty.
We'll put our heads together.
Cause then that sounds like the whole candidacy is about abortion or something.
We don't want to do that.
See I'm not good at this on the fly, man.
Only for later.
Yeah.
I'm trying to come up with something.
Yeah.
We'll get, we'll get some of that magic, that magic, uh, you know, thinking smoke.
Okay.
Now tell me this, there's 50 States and there's all kinds of different rules and timelines and days on calendars for people to try to keep track of.
How can you help them do that and do that well on your websites, on Facebook, whatever it is, that's your best method of keeping everybody in touch and involved.
So a couple of pages for that, I mean, one is a, I'll have to give you these links at when we're done here, but, um, the libertarian party, uh, lp.org has a page that lists all of the state conventions and their dates and then there's, you know, their locations and details and all that kind of stuff.
So that will help you to, um, you know, figure out when you got to get to the state conventions.
Um, if you're, if you've never been involved with the libertarian party, uh, we have a really good guide on lpmecyscaucus.com called the beginner's guide to the LP that will give you a crash course of everything you need to know to get involved, uh, you know, and attend meetings and what, what the meetings are like and Robert's rules of order and all that crap.
And, and, uh, just, just a basic crash course in, in getting there.
And then if you want to help us specifically, uh, you can go to takehumanaction.com and that will give you a list of everything that we're doing, uh, that you could choose to get involved in from our podcast called ask an Austrian where we, we have, uh, Austrian economist from the Mises Institute answer your questions about economics, uh, to joining our email list, to becoming a donor to Mises PAC, to our meet the team page where you can see and hook up with our state level organizers.
And, but what I would recommend is going to that lp.org page that lists all of the state conventions and then reaching out and becoming a member of your state party.
That's the most important.
Um, and then seeing if you have a county level affiliate near you and then finding out when their meetings are and, and getting started because, um, depending on your state, it's going to be more difficult for you to get a delegate if you're total unknown, you know, so you should go there and network.
Great.
And would you advise that people bring their boyfriends and their girlfriends and their husbands and their wives and fathers in law and all of their, uh, you know, beer drinking buddies and everybody that they can as a force multiplier to make sure they get those great delegate spots they need so badly?
Yeah.
Get, bring your dog, man, bring, bring your grandmother, bring, bring everybody, everybody that's down to come in and not to mention when you get to the convention, yeah, the business can be a drag and there's all a call to question and all this, uh, however, it's a giant party and there's a lot of us, you know, and you're going to be there.
I don't know if Tom's going to be there.
I'm going to try to have to try to convince him to become a delegate from Florida, but, um, you know, a whole bunch of us are going to be there and we don't know yet, but Ron Paul might be there.
So, you know, that's, that's something to be excited about.
Yeah, absolutely.
Hey, I happen to be a big fan of his.
All right.
Well, uh, listen, so, um, if you gotta give them one website real quick, what is it?
Takehumanaction.com.
Takehumanaction.com to join up with the Mises Caucus.
That's Michael Heiss and he will help you do your Libertarian Party business.
Thank you, Michael.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on, man.
I really appreciate it.
All right, y'all.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
