10/28/15 – Philip Giraldi – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, you guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show, The Scott Horton Show.
Our guest today is Phil Giraldi, former CIA officer.
Now he is the executive director of the Council for the National Interest, and he writes for UNZ.com in the American Conservative magazine.
UNZ is U-N-Z, UNZ.com.
And this one is called Israel Takes on the First Amendment.
I'm really glad—well, first of all, welcome back to the show.
How are you doing, Phil?
I'm fine, Scott.
You?
Good, good.
Appreciate you joining us again, as always.
And I'm really glad that you wrote about this because I don't know if you know, but my show, kind of the best ofs, are played on KUCR in Riverside in the Inland Empire in Southern California, and up in Davis as well.
And I've been on KUCR, you know, university radio there.
And I've been warned that actually that may be coming to an end because the University of California system is outlawing criticism of Israel.
And so I may very well be taken off the air there on KUCR and KDRT.
And so really happy to see that you wrote this article about this.
I mean, I guess I'm kind of surprised I'm on in the first place, right?
But anyway, I thought it was already illegal to criticize Israel.
Apparently only informally, but they're working on formalizing that in the UC system.
Can you explain, please?
Well, I mean, basically what this comes down to is that there are all kinds of restrictions on free speech, as I'm sure you and I are both aware.
But a lot of them are simple courtesies.
What a lot of people who are supporting Israel and are very concerned particularly about the boycott movement is to stop people on campus from talking about Israel at all.
And what they're doing is essentially saying that talking about Israel in a negative way is basically a threat to Jewish students, and that Jewish students, as a result of this talk, feel threatened.
That kind of language or that kind of discussion will no longer be acceptable at the university.
And there have been a number of examples I cite.
There were, you know, in 2014 to 2015, there were over 300 incidents all over the United States where Israeli groups and when I say Israeli groups, I mean, these are basically people like Sheldon Adelson and people like that who are funding these efforts.
So these are national efforts with a lot of money behind them.
And they're getting students to say, yes, I feel threatened.
And once they start to say that they feel threatened, the university steps in and says, no, you can't talk about that.
So that's what it's all about.
Yeah.
Well, it's kind of funny because, I mean, in a way, it's sort of like they believe their own BS, it sounds like, that, hey, listen, the only reason that anybody would ever criticize Israel is because they're born hating Jews, because that's how all non-Jews are, I guess, or something like that.
And never, ever grapple with the occupation, the occupation of the Palestinians.
No, no, no.
Never heard of such a thing.
They don't exist.
Or if they did, they still don't.
And they caused the Holocaust and whatever.
Anyway, they hate us because we're Jewish.
That's the line.
And so that makes sense then, if they really believe that, that then they're saying to the university, you know, deans and whatever, the administrators, that, hey, all these people, whenever they criticize Israel, it's their secret code language for, you know, they want to put me in an oven or whatever.
That's what they've been made to believe.
The problem, though, of course, is that none of that is true.
And all the people, I mean, come on, 99.999% of the people on college campuses protesting Israel, whether they're Palestinian or Jewish or other, are leftists or liberals, at least of some kind or another, and are clearly not anti-Semites.
They're civil rights types.
Only they're just applying their liberal civil rightsy principles to Palestinians, too, that's all.
So you got kind of this ideological explanation for what is going on here, up against a very hard reality.
And like you said, the BDS movement, we're not just talking about criticism of Israel.
We're talking about people organizing to boycott Israel.
So this ought to be, it sounds like a pretty explosive battle going on here, or they're set up for one.
Yeah.
And of course, you know, when you've got one side, which has a lot of resources and everything like that, it makes their argument seem legitimate, even if it isn't.
And that's the sad thing about this.
And I think the point you made, I mean, quite a lot of these people on campuses that are demonstrating against Israeli policies are Jewish.
And, you know, you can go through the list.
There are a heck of a lot of them.
And they're certainly not anti-Semites.
And the movement in general itself has been very careful not to turn this into a Jewish issue.
And in fact, all of the criticisms basically come down to a very simple equation.
The equation is that if you criticize Israel, you are ipso facto an anti-Semite.
Now, which is not to say there aren't some anti-Semites out there, but that's not really what we're talking about.
Right.
Of course.
And I don't know.
When has there ever been an organized anti-Semitic movement on an American campus?
Right.
Do they have like the Nazi party or whatever, the KKK group on some campus in the South?
Not that I've ever heard of.
We're talking, of course, almost without exception, I think.
Maybe I'm assuming a lot here, but we're talking aren't we talking about purely liberal and left wing groups here?
Yeah, pretty much.
I mean, there are no conservative groups out there screaming about, you know, the First Amendment, because obviously if you watch the Republican debate, you realize the First Amendment is irrelevant.
They're not much into it either.
They're not.
But the fact is, yeah, this is kind of a progressive thing.
And a lot of the students involved, of course, are themselves Palestinians.
And so for them, it's an ethnic issue of a certain type and an issue of where their families are and that kind of thing.
But at the same time, it's critical to emphasize that these people are not advocating violence against anybody.
They don't cross that line.
They've never been accused of crossing that line.
And yet they're being denied the right even to talk about this issue because it apparently makes someone uncomfortable.
I mean, that's I can see Thomas Jefferson kind of rolling over in his grave at the present time.
Yeah, you know, I think I guess some of us thought that that was what college was about, was seeing if you could get proven wrong about all the things you think, you know, right?
No, no, no.
Once upon a time it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, I'm sure you and I've had the same experience.
You had you had professors who, you know, struck you as nutcases and things like that.
But they had a right to express their views.
And if they could be credible in terms of where they were coming from, then you say, OK, I understand that.
I accept that.
But this is this is a clear effort to shut down the voices that are are talking about Israel.
And as I say, it's being funded by billionaires who are throwing a lot of resources into it.
And it's a national thing.
It's happening on every campus where where the issue raises its head, as it were.
And then, of course, you have the issue of professors being fired or denied tenure if they are at all open about this issue.
The Norman St. Finkelstein was denied tenure at DePaul University in Chicago.
And more recently, Steven Salata, the University of Illinois, actually had a teaching position that he had been offered.
It was about to step into the position was pulled literally out onto his feet.
So it's.
Yeah.
And then how many other professors are quiet on this issue so as not to get in trouble?
You know, so it's kind of a censorship sometimes that operates underneath the screen.
Yeah.
Well, it's yeah, it's really too bad.
And I think, unfortunately, the the modern, completely over the top PC culture that demands that everyone has a right to have their feelings protected from anyone who would you know, call them a name or say something that hurts their feelings or whatever is, is, you know, all caught up in this, too.
Where, I mean, I don't know how old you're supposed to be before you're considered an adult now, maybe thirty five or forty or something.
But it's true, I think.
Yeah.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Once you once you're old enough for for Social Security and then your life expectancies, another few years, a couple of four or five years after that.
Right.
All right.
Hold it right there.
We'll be right back with Phil.
We're going to talk more about the nuts and bolts of who's behind all this.
The effort to shut down criticism of Israel and the BDS movement on American campuses right after this.
Check him out at UNS dot com.
Israel takes on the First Amendment.
UNS dot com.
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All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton talking with Phil Giraldi about the Israel lobby trying to shut down the BDS movement and free speech about Israel on America's campuses, especially in the University of California system.
And so where exactly are they at on this?
They already passed it or they're about to pass it or there's still a big fight over whether they're going to pass it or what is the deal in California?
And then, if you could, please also get into the role of Richard Blum and his front man in the U.S. Senate, Dianne Feinstein.
Right.
Yeah, well, as I understand it right now, Janet Napolitano, who is the head of the university system in California, is for the fourth time considering new language on what to do about this.
It's basically they're framing it in terms of it's a statement of university policy on intolerance.
See, so that's kind of you put it in those terms and you already have it in a box.
And so it's on intolerance.
And she's been under considerable pressure in all the previous versions of what the statement will be to conform with the with the the Israeli view of the matter, which is that criticism of Israel is by its very nature anti-Semitic.
She's she's under considerable pressure, in particular from one Richard Blum.
Now, most people that name probably doesn't ring a bell, but he's on the California University of California's Board of Regents.
And he has demanded that any student who criticizes Israel be suspended or expelled from the university because they're anti-Semitic bigots who are exhibiting intolerance.
So, you know, that's the position he comes from.
And he is not only a multimillionaire, he is the husband of California Senator Dianne Feinstein.
And Feinstein has suggested that if these universities don't draw the line on this issue, the U.S. government will be looking into them because they are recipients of federal funds.
So, you know, you're opening the door to the U.S. government interfering with universities and interfering with universities on the basis of what students are saying, not what they're doing, what they're saying.
And so, you know, if you could figure that one out, you know, I'll give you a medal.
But, I mean, it's just it seems to me that this whole thing is so illogical that Americans would be rising up and saying, why is this happening?
But we've seen this kind of thing happen far too often.
Yeah.
Well, and especially the unlimited arrogance where he says, and you better do what I say, because or else, you know, I'm married to a senator and I can have your ass.
Like, wow, that's pretty kind of blatant sort of thing.
You're supposed to say that in private, not in front of everybody at the meeting of the whatever the hell it was, you know.
Yeah.
Board of Regents.
Yeah.
And he's not just a multimillionaire.
He's an arms dealer or, you know, mini Halliburton contractor type for the Army is where he made all his money reaching into the Defense Department budget.
And, of course, he had inside access to those funds from his wife.
You know, but at the end, it's like an issue like like Dennis Hastert that nobody wants to talk about it.
You know, our Congress is so corrupt.
It's it's it's the source of all these problems.
It's the fact that that people at the top of our system can get away with this kind of corruption, say whatever they want, do whatever they want.
And that that empowers all these other clowns that come out of the woodwork.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, so what's the problem with the Israelis anyway?
I guess I kind of made a little bit of a reference to the occupation there earlier.
But this BDS movement is a big deal.
And there's a reason that, you know, as you're saying before, there are a lot of Jews who support it.
And it's because of what's really going on over there.
And right now, things seem to really be escalating.
They have a term for it.
I forget.
But it's this this kind of intifada of the knives going on over there.
And it's not led by apparently any political or religious or any other group or militia or anything.
It's just individual Palestinians attempting to fight back against soldiers and civilians in the occupied territories and in Israel.
And then, you know, obviously the Israeli reaction or, you know, I don't mean to I guess you could obviously switch around who started what.
But that's based more or less the shape of things going on.
But could you explain what it means to the people?
Well, it's it's it seems to be a spontaneous, as you pointed out, a spontaneous uprising.
It's just, you know, complete frustration at an occupation now that's gone on for 50 years on the West Bank.
And the the Palestinians are fed up and their political leadership is bankrupt.
It is incapable of moving forward, largely because the United States has been playing its phony mediating role in this.
If the United States had actually been even handed probably 30 years ago, we would see a whole different story.
But they've perpetuated the cycle of violence by by basically permitting the Israelis to continue the occupation.
And there was an earlier point when when it could have basically ended.
And so we have that problem.
And now the United States kind of looks the other way when Netanyahu says, no, I have no intention of ever making peace with the Palestinians.
They can't have a state.
If someone throws a rock, we'll shoot him.
And now, of course, the latest comment from Netanyahu that that actually was Palestinians who incited Hitler to carry out the Holocaust.
And he gets away with all this stuff.
You know, I mean, people are screaming about it.
But where is the U.S. government response to all this kind of thing?
I mean, it's pretty feeble.
Yeah.
Well, you know that.
Yeah.
His latest thing where he says Israel will forever live by the sword.
Is there another half of that saying this is the guy in charge over there?
He probably didn't read that other part.
Yeah.
It's just crazy.
I mean, it's like it's a situation where where, unfortunately, the United States has been kind of a patchy in the whole thing and has always deferred to Israel on anything important.
And now, you know, you're you're you're reaping the harvest.
The harvest is essentially that you created an intractable situation and it's it's it's it's only going to be getting more violent.
And it might they might be able to shoot a lot of Palestinians and the thing will calm down for a while.
But it's it's not going to go away.
And the Palestinians, for their part, you know, it's deplorable that they're killing civilians.
I don't know.
I don't know that they think they have any other options anymore.
And, you know, but it's it's it's the whole thing is it's terrible.
Yeah.
Hey, listen, everybody, you don't have to endorse it to understand it.
Right.
This is, you know, not just a military occupation, but a colonization by civilians at the very same time.
You know, Phil, I don't know if you saw this when I think we're running it today.
From the 972 mag, Yitzhak Rabin never supported Palestinian statehood.
That's just kind of the mythology because he was killed by a Likudnik.
But all he ever wanted to do really was basically the deal they have now, where they hire this bogus Palestinian authority to be their trustees and enforce their martial law, mostly for them.
And so then there's kind of this pseudo autonomy.
So and and slow and steady encroachment of the settlements, etc., so that they get to steal it in slow motion while pretending that they're somehow on their way to some kind of pseudo independence that they're never going to grant.
You know, in other words, he's no different than Netanyahu, Yitzhak Rabin.
Well, he was he had more style to him.
Yeah, it's like the myth that Yasser Arafat turned down an independent state.
He turned down a a rump governing situation in which all the controls would have been in the hands of the Israelis.
You know, it's when you control the media, you control the narrative.
You can make the narrative whatever you say, whatever you wanted to say.
Today's Washington Post, there was a I opened it up to the opinion letters page and there were like six letters, you know, defending Israel.
And I was thinking, oh, my God, you know what?
You're printing six letters on this subject.
Although I mean, on that one, though, it's because over the weekend they ran two really good ones by anti Zionist American liberal Jews saying this is why we've given up on Israel.
This is why we support the boycott, which I was absolutely floored that they ran to like that in The Washington Post.
So I can kind of understand why they're going to turn around.
We are talking about Fred Hyatt's editorial page here, right?
Yeah.
As a matter of fact, and the letters were indeed in response to the to the op eds.
Yeah.
And the op eds were very sensible.
I'm sure you read them there.
We were a bit surprised.
That's why I was so shocked because they were completely sensible.
Yeah.
What were they doing in The Washington Post in the first place?
He must have been on vacation or something.
I might have had a head blip or something like that.
Yeah.
But no, I mean, clearly you're right that the Palestinian side of the story is only just barely breaking through.
And that's why the backlash.
But anyway, the music already playing thing.
All right.
Hey, Phil, thanks very much for doing the show again.
I really appreciate it as always.
All right.
Take care.
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