10/24/12 – Cindy Sheehan – The Scott Horton Show

Ben Franklin said those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither.
Hi, Scott Horton here for the Bill of Rights Security Edition from securityedition.com.
It's a plain card-sized steel Bill of Rights designed to set off the metal detectors anywhere the police state goes so you can remind those around you the freedoms we've lost.
And for a limited time, get free shipping when you purchase a frequent flyer pack of five Bill of Rights Security Edition cards.
The Scott Horton Show is brought to you by the Future Freedom Foundation at www.fff.org.
Join the great Jacob Hornberger and some of the best writers in the libertarian movement like James Bovard, Sheldon Richmond, Anthony Gregory, Wendy McElroy, and more for a real individualist take on the most important matters of peace, liberty, and prosperity in our society.
That's the Future Freedom Foundation at www.fff.org.
Hey, everybody, Scott Horton here.
Ever think maybe your group should hire me to give a speech?
Well, maybe you should.
I've got a few good ones to choose from, including How to End the War on Terror, The Case Against War with Iran, Central Banking and War, Uncle Sam and the Arab Spring, The Ongoing War on Civil Liberties, and, of course, Why Everything in the World is Woodrow Wilson's Fault.
But I'm happy to talk about just about anything else you've ever heard me cover on the show as well.
So check out YouTube.com.
Hey, everybody, Scott Horton here for LibertyStickers.com.
If you're like me, then you're right all the time.
Surrounded by people in desperate need of correction.
Well, we can't all have a radio show, but we can all get anti-government propaganda to stick on the back of our trucks.
Check out LibertyStickers.com.
Categories include anti-war, empire, pro-democracy, anti-terrorism, anti-terrorism propaganda, anti-terrorism propaganda, anti-terrorism propaganda, anti-terrorism propaganda, anti-terrorism propaganda, LibertyStickers.com.
Categories include anti-war, empire, police state, libertarian, Ron Paul, gun rights, founders quotes, and, of course, this stupid election.
That's LibertyStickers.com.
Everyone else's stickers suck.
All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is the Scott Horton Show.
Find all my archives.
Well, interview archives are all at ScottHorton.org.
Whole show archives are at ScottHorton.org.
And, of course, you can find me on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube at ScottHortonShow.
Okay, our next guest on the show today is the great American peace activist, Cindy Sheehan.
Welcome to the show, Cindy.
How are you?
Hey, Scott.
I'm great, and it's nice to be back on.
How are you?
I'm very excited to see that you're running for vice president of the United States, at least in California, huh?
Well, we're on the ballot in Colorado and Florida also.
Oh, okay.
And we'll be, like, on 20 different ballots as write-in candidates.
Oh, okay, right on.
Yeah.
So, now, where can people read about that, like, where you're officially on the ballot as a write-in?
Probably at Roseanne for president 2012.
There you go.
So, yeah, that was the part I was going to get to.
I'm not exactly sure.
Yeah.
Hey, isn't that really cool, though, that you're running for vice president on the Roseanne Barr for president ticket?
I think that's cool.
I've been a big fan of her since her stand-up days before the sitcom when I was a little kid.
Uh-huh.
She's just great.
Awesome.
So, is she really good on war?
I guess she must be if you're running with her, huh?
Oh, yeah.
It's not her main issue for the campaign, which I was disappointed in, but she is excellent on war.
And she's excellent on the Israeli-Palestine question and the drug wars and prison-industrial complex.
And, I mean, just about everything we're almost in complete agreement on.
Cool.
Man.
Yeah.
You know, I sure hope that this is not just a one-time thing.
You know, if she decides that this is a lot of fun, if you decide that running with her is a good time, you want to try again, maybe you could try again next time, be the Green Party candidate or even, oh, who knows?
I don't know.
I'm just having fantasies of Roseanne Barr in a debate with the rest of these thugs and whooping the hell out of them, right?
Because she's so sarcastic and all of that.
Yeah.
Actually, you know, I'm Peace and Freedom Party.
And so I'm very seriously thinking of running for governor of California in 2014 with the Peace and Freedom Party.
Sweet.
I think that, you know, I have about as much chance of being vice president of the United States as I have of flying to the moon after this interview.
But I think in California I would have a better opportunity to talk about the issues that I really care about.
You know, instead of spending billions of dollars every year to Washington, D.C., for these illegal and immoral wars, why don't we keep it in California and start to get our state well again?
It's been many years since my state hasn't been well.
Yeah.
Well, that's for sure.
Just as far as even the county budgets and that kind of thing, they're just broken all over the place, falling apart, right?
That's right.
I mean, closing schools and everything and, you know, devoting billions of our resources for these trillions.
And, you know, now since 9-11 it's been trillions of dollars that have been literally drained our country dry.
And, you know, it's time that it stops.
But you're right, they're not talking about stopping these things in the two-party, the monopoly.
Two-party monopoly they're talking about, you know, they're fighting with each other.
Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are fighting with each other on who's the worst warmonger.
Right.
You know, it was interesting to me.
I saw on Facebook, well, I got tagged in one of the comments or something.
Eventually, that's how I saw this.
But the one guy said, man, you know, I'm so sick of or isn't it hilarious or something about how the left doesn't care about the wars anymore.
Like, for example, whatever happened to Cindy Sheehan?
She doesn't care now that Obama's in power or something like that.
And immediately the first comment was, no, you're wrong about that.
Cindy Sheehan, she's been hardcore this whole time.
But, of course, the TV cameras won't show up anymore.
That's really the problem.
You don't have that phalanx of pretend sympathizers around you that you had back then.
And so it just ain't newsworthy.
So someone could actually go years and think that you had sold out rather than you're toiling every day working on this issue.
Still, of course.
Well, you know, it's frustrating and annoying to me when people say stuff like that.
I mean, because they're partially right.
You know, part of the anti-war movement was just an anti-Bush movement.
And a lot of the energy was sucked out of the movement by the Democratic Party in 2006, 2007, and then 2008 when Obama became president.
It was practically eradicated.
You know, but like you said, all they have to do is go like write in Cindy Sheehan on Google.
How long will that take?
Like three seconds?
Right.
To find out everything I've been doing since Obama's been president.
Hillary Clinton's on CNN right now.
She looks just like the frog lady on Ice Pirates.
I'm sorry.
I couldn't help myself.
She's pretty evil.
I'm a big fan of Ice Pirates.
It was a favorite of mine.
I'm sorry.
She just looks a spitting image.
I couldn't help it.
So now tell me, as part of this campaign for the vice presidency, what kind of touring are you doing?
Are you going around and giving speeches?
And when can people see you?
Well, right now I'm actually on a book tour for my book, Revolution, A Love Story.
And I have my own blog, CindySheehansBookBlogs.com.
And I have a little tab that says Where's Cindy?
And I am quite busy from now until I don't know when.
My October schedule is up there.
I'm in Cleveland right now.
I'll be in New York City all weekend doing various different things.
So if people want to go on my blog, if they're anywhere near Cleveland or New York City, then they can go and come out and meet me or chat with me or hear me talk or buy one of my books.
Yeah.
Well, and I strongly encourage people to do that too.
You know how it is.
There are many people who feel exactly like you do, exactly like I do.
But you know what?
They've got obligations that to them precludes them from doing this kind of thing.
But, you know, they could show up and support sometimes.
Support people who are still doing it for sure.
I mean, since Obama's been president, it's been super difficult to do what I do.
My support has gone from the day Obama was inaugurated, Scott, I probably had 160,000 people on my e-mail list.
Today I have less than 2,000 people on my e-mail list.
And, of course, the donations and the volunteers have just dramatically decreased.
I've joked that I almost hope that Romney wins because then the pretend anti-war people come back out and support anti-war people and support our work again.
And I don't think it's a joke because I really don't think it matters who wins, Obama or Romney.
They're essentially the same person.
That's funny.
I actually was looking at it exactly the other way.
I kind of hope this is one of the reasons I hope Obama wins because I don't want all these fake peaceniks back, you know?
I know.
But it'll be fake for sure, you know, but at least we'll have a chance.
And since we – see, this is my theory.
Since we know what they do now – I mean, I know what they do because I've only been doing this since 2004.
I had no idea that this is the cycle of the anti-war movement.
It was just so tied into the Democratic Party.
They used the energy of me and Kemp Casey and the anti-war movement to get back in power in 06 and 07.
Now we can use the fake activists to come back and use them to actually – and the wars have been our goals all along.
And then protect ourselves from the political partisanship that infected the movement back in the day of 06 and 07.
Yeah, I wonder how it would be, you know, because – I mean, I remember being surprised at how many people came out in Austin for the anti-war protests of February and March 2003 because I thought, well, where the hell have all you people been the whole Clinton era?
I mean, he was killing people.
He had wars.
Where were you all during Kosovo and all this?
And you guys are just mad because you don't trust some Texas oil men to run the thing.
But, you know, if Bush was out gore and he was saying this was a humanitarian mission to go help the people of Iraq and give them a democracy, because that's what Joe Lieberman wants, I'm pretty afraid most of you all would actually be for this thing.
But the difference is that when Clinton was in power, the impression that it was peacetime was much stronger than during Obama years.
I mean, people can remember how loud the anti-war movement was during the Bush years, and then the Bush wars never really stopped.
I mean, it sort of erected, but the rest of the whole program continues on.
And so I'm just trying to imagine what it would be like if Romney won and all the anti-war protesters came back.
I mean, what would people think?
They would just laugh right in their face, right?
I mean, they would all look at them the way I was looking at them in 2003.
Like, come on, you guys don't mean it.
It would be.
I mean, but it's obvious that this is cyclical and it happens all the time.
But, you know, at least this time the people who have never stopped and recognize that it's a systemic problem, not a problem of who's in office, I'm hoping that we can be wise and use the energy to rebuild our, if you want to say, war chest or peace chest to really fight the systemic diseases of this country, not just the monopoly of the war party.
So, you know, I'm hoping that that would at least be a positive outcome.
And for sure, you know, I would want to go up to every single one of them and punch them in the face and say, where have you been?
And I wouldn't do that because I'm like a 99 percent nonviolent person.
But I just want to say, where have you been for the last four years when Obama's been expanding the war policies of the Bush administration?
You know, but what is, is.
And I think we have to use things for our agenda.
And our agenda, I think, is the one that is the best agenda.
And that's ending all wars, no matter who's president.
Right.
Well, I'm sure that you've had a lot of success and a lot of success that you don't even really know.
Right.
There's a lot of people show up to these little talks that you give and maybe don't even get to shake hands.
They just leave and you don't know what happens from there.
But it's a lot of ripples spreading out.
I just have been very fortunate to be able to hear from a lot of people about how my activism has positively affected them.
So, you know, it's been, it's been a struggle and it's been hard and it's hard every day.
But it's such a rewarding thing to be doing.
You know, my son's dead and nothing I can do can bring him back.
But, you know, we have to make peace with the past and go forward and try to make a difference every day.
So it's hard, but it's also a very rewarding job to have.
Yeah.
Well, that's good to hear that, you know, you do benefit from it yourself.
It's not just completely self-sacrificial.
Right.
You get a little bit of reward from knowing you're doing the right thing, as hard as it is.
Well, absolutely.
And even if things were harder, Scott, even if I have to go to federal prison for being a war tax resister, I wouldn't do anything else.
I wouldn't do anything differently.
Well, and you do put yourself in danger of things like that from time to time, right?
Running around with Dan Ellsberg, getting arrested on military bases and stuff.
Yep.
But I wouldn't do anything differently.
And that's not the way most Americans think.
I think they think more for their personal comfort than other people's lives.
And so I just wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror or sleep at night if I didn't think that I was doing everything I could to try and stop this empire I live in.
Yep.
Yeah, right on.
Good for that.
All right.
So tell me about your latest book.
Which is it?
It's called Revolution of Love Story, and it's about the Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela.
And it's about dispelling the lies that really the international propaganda media tell about Hugo Chavez and showing people that Venezuela was essentially in the same mess the United States was in 1998.
And Hugo Chavez came into power and how we can work together if we get a sympathetic government, how the grassroots and activist organizations can work together with the government to create these good changes.
Or if we can't ever get a sympathetic government in the United States, how we can make these changes on our own in our own communities.
And that's basically where I think we have to go.
I think our activism has to be way more local, and we have to make a difference in our own communities and make those better and just try to stay out of the circus of federal politics because it's all about money and it's all about the revolving door of lobbyists.
You know, when congresspeople get out of office and senators, I think they have to wait like a year or 18 months before they go straight into lobbying.
And it's just like a gravy train for them.
And so is that ever going to stop?
Is that ever going to stop without a revolution or a collapse of the empire?
You know, I don't think so.
So how do we transform our own communities to protect us from a collapse of the empire or just from the empire?
Right.
Yeah.
Declare independence, basically.
Right.
Make them obsolete.
Who needs them anyway?
That's my philosophy.
Who needs them anyway?
And last time I was in Austin and you all came to the bookstore.
I forget the name of that bookstore, but I've spoken in there a couple times.
And there's a lot of great things happening in Austin along these lines of, you know, food production and local trade and, you know, all kinds of wonderful things happening in every community.
We just need to plug into those and expand those.
Yeah.
There's a whole agorist movement, which is, I guess, sort of a subset of the libertarian movement, which is centered around just trying to avoid government tainted markets in any way.
Right.
Buy direct from a farmer.
Do whatever you can to, you know, avoid any paying any sales tax or doing anything that the government can find a way to cut in on.
Well, food security and water security, I think, are going to be the most important things if the empire eventually collapses.
And we know it will.
It's just a matter of time because there's never been an empire that didn't.
Well, and they just keep printing so much money.
Dang.
We'll be protected from it.
Sorry.
I'm interrupting you.
I was just thinking they just keep announcing more and more and more money printing.
They announced that in the EU today, too.
The central bank is going to create a bunch of new money to buy up all the European government's debt.
And they're really pushing it.
You're right.
All empires fall.
But, jeez, they all put the gun right in their own mouth and blow the back of their own head off.
That's right.
Jeez.
That's right.
Sure seems like they're raising like, oh, yeah, I'll show you collapse.
We're going to hit rock bottom like you couldn't imagine.
Well, it's almost like the United States saw what happened to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and was really jealous, and they want to collapse, too.
So they decided they'd get in a, you know, now Obama doesn't want to leave until 2014.
So over two and a half decades of war in Afghanistan, how can we sustain that?
By printing more money.
That's how we can sustain it.
And then there's got to be a collapse.
It can't sustain itself like that.
That's the whole thing.
You know, I saw the thing today.
We're way off topic now, but not really.
I mean, it is the same topic.
And it's important.
It's all wrapped up in the warfare state.
This is U.S. home values jump.
And I've been seeing more and more stories like this where even though there are, what, a couple of ten million unoccupied houses in America right now, that in certain sectors you have these massive increases in home prices.
And it's just the same old bubble.
There's nothing more valuable about these houses now, is there?
But they look at that and they go, yay, it's working.
Dope.
Yep.
And then we get sucked into their slavery again and they want us to be slaves and they want to further impoverish us and enrich themselves.
And they know that's what these bubbles do.
Yep.
It works every time.
All right.
Well, so I guess let's finish up about the campaign some more.
You and Roseanne are running for president, vice president.
Strike that, reverse it around.
You know what I mean.
How can people find out about it?
How can they show up at where you guys are speaking?
What's the deal?
I would direct people to either my website or her website.
Her website has everything that she's doing.
We're not exactly working together on the campaign anymore, even though we're on the ticket.
And that's a long story that will come out more after the election.
But, you know, we're still on the ticket and I still believe in my party and I still believe in revolution.
And so my website is cindyshehanselfox.com and hers is roseanneforpresident2012.
Cool.
Well, right on.
That's a good place to leave.
Okay.
Well, best of luck to you, Cindy.
It's always great to talk to you, and I know you'll keep up a good fight, so I won't bother telling you to in a patronizing way.
Okay, Scott.
It was great talking to you, and I'll talk to you sooner, I hope.
Yeah.
Maybe after the election I can fill you in.
Yeah, there you go.
That'll be fun.
Okay.
Perfect.
Thank you, Scott.
All right.
Bye-bye.
All right, everybody.
That's the great Cindy Sheehan, heroic American peace activist.
Hey, folks.
Scott Horton here for Veterans for Peace.
Veteransforpeace.org.
I'm not a vet, but if you are, I'd like to ask you to consider joining Veterans for Peace.
As you know, in matters of foreign wars, a veteran's voice is given much more weight.
Well, Veterans for Peace is making veterans' voices heard in ways and places where they can really make a difference.
There are more than 175 chapters of Veterans for Peace in all 50 states working hard to eliminate nuclear weapons, seek justice for veterans and victims of war, and abolish war as an instrument of American national policy.
It's the peace vets versus the chicken hawks.
Join up the good fight at veteransforpeace.org.
Hey, y'all.
Scott Horton here.
After the show, you should check out one of my sponsors, wallstreetwindow.com.
It's a financial blog written by Mike Swanson, a former hedge fund manager who's investing in commodities, mining stocks, and European markets.
Mike's site, wallstreetwindow.com, is unique in that he shows people what he's really investing in, updating you when he buys or sells in his main account.
Mike's betting his positions are going to go up due to the Federal Reserve printing all that money to finance the deficit.
See what happens at wallstreetwindow.com.
In an empire where Congress knows nothing, the ubiquitous D.C. think tank is all.
And the Israel lobby and their neocon allies must own a dozen.
Well, Americans have a lobby in Washington, too.
It's called the Council for the National Interest at councilforthenationalinterest.org.
They advocate for us on Capitol Hill.
Join CNI to demand an end to the U.S.
-sponsored occupation of the Palestinians and an end to our government's destructive empire in the Middle East.
That's the Council for the National Interest at councilforthenationalinterest.org.
Hey, ladies, Scott Horton here.
If you would like truly youthful, healthy, and healthy-looking skin, there is one very special company you need to visit, Dagny and Lane at dagnyandlane.com.
Dagny and Lane has revolutionized the industry with a full line of products made from organic and all-natural ingredients that penetrate deeply with nutrient-rich ionic minerals and antioxidants for healthy and beautiful skin.
That's Dagny and Lane at dagnyandlane.com.
And for a limited time, add promo code SCOTT15 at checkout for a 15% discount.