10/19/16 – Sandy Tolan – The Scott Horton Show

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Introducing Sandy Tolan, he's a regular for Tom Dispatch.
He's the author of The Lemon Tree and Children of the Stone, about music schools established under the military occupation, the Israeli military occupation in the West Bank.
He's reported from more than 35 countries, is a professor at the Annenberg School for Journalism and Communication at USC.
Go Bruins.
His website is...
Ah, it's the Trojans, pal.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
His website is sandytolan.com.
Honestly, you know what, I'm a Texan, but I'm born and raised a Bruin, so I have to pick a fight.
Okay, alright.
I do the same thing to Mohamed Sahimi, and I absolutely love that guy.
You know him?
You ever hang out with him?
The Iran expert?
No, I don't know him.
Oh man, he's great.
Chemical engineering department there.
Oh, okay.
Anyway, yeah, me and my USC friends.
My dad would kill me if he knew.
Okay, so anyway, listen, you've got this great article here, Sandy.
Welcome to the show.
How are you?
Well, thank you, Scott.
It's good to be here.
Very happy to have you back on the show.
And you wrote this thing, and I really hate it.
I mean, it's good work.
I hope everyone will read it, but it is what it is, and that's the problem.
It's throwing in the towel, the death of the two-state solution.
And I think, you know, I know a lot of people would argue that this has really been a long time coming, that the sooner everybody concedes this, the better.
On the other hand, nobody really seems to have a very nice idea of what real annexation in one-state policy might look like other than another war or something.
I really don't know.
But I guess the question, if I can put this in question form, is it, first of all, I guess never mind whether it's the right thing or not, but just in terms of most people have thought so.
It's been American policy.
Is it too late for even a compliant Israeli government to force the settlers out of the West Bank, or enough of them anyway, with land swaps and this and that, that the people of the West Bank could have their little rump Palestinian state there?
Or is it, are we already just way too past that point?
Well, in practical, political and most other terms, Scott, I think we've long passed the point of no return on the two-state solution that would have any, you know, political or sovereign meaning for Palestinians.
I mean, it's physically possible to force the, you know, more than 400,000 West Bank settlers or a large portion of those with land swaps, as well as many of the residents of 17 or so East Jerusalem settlements.
And you know, it's not physically impossible to move those hundreds or several of those hundreds of thousands of people, several hundred thousand of those, of those settlers, which you know, together add up to more than half a million people back to the Israeli side and the other side of the so-called green line and allow the Palestinians to have a viable contiguous sovereign state.
But in practical terms and political terms, the US has basically acquiesced to a series of predominantly right-wing Israeli administrations, mostly, of course, those of Benjamin Netanyahu and also Ariel Sharon before that, although even some of the other people who were in power as well, including Ehud Barak, were actually not champions of a two-state solution.
We can talk about that.
But I mean, in practical terms, you have, there is just so much, not only the military occupation and the military surveillance towers and the jeep patrols and the flying checkpoints and the hundreds of checkpoints and other barriers, but it's everywhere you look.
There's settlements on hilltops and the Israelis have been pursuing this very hard while giving lip service to a peace deal, while undermining it by colonizing the West Bank and in fact giving numerous tax incentives to Israelis to move out there.
It's not just the religious fanatics that are, you know, although there are plenty of those as well, but these are middle-class sort of suburban types who travel on these bypass roads that are very sleek, well-paved roads and they just go in and out and they're basically creating a kind of greater Israel in the West Bank and this has been done with the acquiescence of the United States and we can get into that, you know, but on the one hand, the U.S. is sort of calling for a peace process, on the other hand, President Obama just signed a $38 billion 10-year deal, a record deal for foreign aid in the history of the United States with Israel while, you know, tisking them on settlement building.
It's a completely schizophrenic policy the United States has.
Yeah.
Yeah, that Barack Obama, he's fixing to get real mad if they don't stop.
I know.
Let's wag our fingers at Israel, meanwhile, talk about what a great friend they are and give them $38 billion, $3.8 billion a year for the next 10 years just in military aid.
These go for fighter jets, you know, and all kinds of other hardware.
We can get into the specifics if you like, but it's quite alarming and quite hypocritical of the United States and actually, it's not like one hand is doing something and the other hand doesn't know and is doing something else.
This is actually a coordinated policy and the U.S. is well aware of what it's doing.
The peace deal, the whole peace process has been a bit of a fig leaf and as Hillary Clinton herself said in these leaked emails that have been coming out through WikiLeaks, she referred to a Potemkin peace process, in other words, a false, a fake one, a facade as being better than nothing.
So, you know, the U.S. has known for a while that this is basically a meaningless process and meanwhile, they're not exactly looking the other way, but they're not making Israel pay at all.
There are virtually no consequences for the settlement building which is basically destroyed the very solution the U.S. professes to endorse.
Yeah.
Boy, and you know that line too about the Potemkin peace process, if you could just turn down the volume on every other scandal for a minute, isn't that the hugest, biggest, crazy, freaking thing in the whole wide world?
We've been working supposedly on this Oslo thing since what, 1992 or four or whatever it was?
Ninety-three, they signed the deal on the White House lawn, the RFA.
Ninety-three, yeah.
And, you know, I mean, critics have always been quoted as saying, you know, hey, this is fake, it's not going anywhere, just look at it in practice.
But then to hear it out of the horse's mouth, so to speak, the former secretary of state running for president, former president's wife, after all, to just say, yeah, that's what we like to do is pretend that there's this thing called the peace process, but it's really no such thing.
They're simply aiding and abetting the powerful, stealing land from the powerless, ha, ha, ha.
And it's not even a story.
Nobody even cares.
Yeah, I mean, there hasn't been much.
I mean, Forward, the national Jewish newspaper in the U.S., published something from Haaretz.
Mondoweiss, which is a really excellent site, published something as well.
But, you know, here's Hillary Clinton back in March of this year, writing to her senior advisors a few days after the Israeli elections that she believed a Potemkin peace process, you know, in other words, only for show, was better than none at all.
So, you know, it's basically, yeah, better for who, yeah, has no clothes.
We knew the emperor was naked, but now the emperor has actually, you know, Instagrammed a photo of, you know, of the emperor's nakedness.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I hate to feel sorry for Barack Obama at all, but can you imagine running for president, you're about to win, and then the economy crashes because it was a big fake, you know, Federal Reserve, easy money bubble economy anyway.
And then right as you're getting elected, so is Benjamin Netanyahu, who is coming back to power in Israel, and he's going to be the prime minister your entire presidency long.
I mean, that has got to be the most frustrating thing, and especially because Netanyahu wears his contempt for the darker races right on his sleeve, you know, treats Barack Obama like he'd be lucky to be his butler or something like that.
When Obama's the emperor of the world and has to take that kind of crap from some pissant governor of some little bitty, you know, Maryland-sized country over in the Mediterranean all day.
Remember they caught him on an open mic telling the president of France, you think you hate him, I've got to deal with him every day.
But I'm thinking, you know what, he could have dealt with the hot mic that he knew was hot or not.
Well, you know, I mean, I was too young at the time, I've only read the history of this, they didn't make enough of a big deal about it on TV at the time.
But didn't George H.W. Bush and James Baker basically outright in English declare that they would really prefer it if the people of Israel would get rid of Yitzhak Shamir for them?
And then they did!
And something like that?
Couldn't he have done that and just told the people of Israel, like, hey, we have a real chance here, but your prime minister, as you well know, is humanity's greatest enemy, so maybe if you could get him out of the way for us, we could make a little bit of progress here?
Well, you know, you raise a really interesting point, Scott, because it's so ironic and in a way, you know, one can see the failings, the deep failings, the sort of catastrophic inefficacy of the Oslo process, which began in 1993.
You can understand it by realizing that the last time a U.S. leader, president or secretary of state, directly, publicly challenged Israel by threatening to withhold funds unless it stopped building settlements was before the Oslo process started.
It was, in fact, James Baker, the secretary of state under the first President Bush, who basically said, you know, Mr. Shamir has got to stop, Yitzhak Shamir, then the prime minister of Israel, has got to stop building if he wants these loan guarantees.
And then he basically said, you know, it's up to Mr. Shamir.
He has my phone number.
It's the famous quote from Baker.
Now, can you imagine Obama or Clinton, who's, you know, we can get into Clinton's connections to the Israeli-American tycoon Haim Saban, who's donated millions to the Clinton Foundation and Hillary's PAC and her candidacy, her campaign.
But you imagine Clinton or Kerry or Obama saying anything like that.
It just shows that the power of the Israel lobby has gotten so much more potent.
I mean, it's not infallible.
The defeat of the Iran deal, the defeat of their opposition to the Iran deal, AIPAC in particular, is significant, I think, to show that they're not infallible.
But it's like nobody would ever consider saying anything like that now because of the feared consequences.
I frankly think things are changing and that the political elite doesn't realize how much is changing.
I mean, if you look at Poles, young Americans, including young Jewish Americans, they're not all in on Israel's behavior.
They don't consider themselves as the American, young American Jews, as Zionist as their parents and grandparents generally do.
And so I think things are changing.
They're changing from the grassroots.
They're not changing at the top because you see, you know, Hillary basically endorsing a sham peace process.
And meanwhile, you know, we could talk a little bit about the consequences to the Palestinians, which are horrendous.
Yeah.
Well, and that's that's really what I want to get to.
I want to get back to Haim Sabin later, actually, because I think that is a very important story.
And there's some recent news along those lines I thought was pretty funny, too.
But yeah, this is really the thing I wanted to ask you back when, but spaced out and ask you something else instead.
This is the thing that I sort of kind of don't understand.
I mean, I guess I understand it, but it kind of seems to me like the Israeli right doesn't really have a plan here because, you know, well, Ehud Barak, I guess, puts it best and is the best to quote on it the former prime minister and former defense minister under Netanyahu himself, who says, listen, we got to give them their own state or we got to give them equal rights or we're going to live in an apartheid system that we won't be able to maintain in, you know, the international system and whatever.
It'll be just too problematic.
And at the point when everyone basically just concedes that they've already de facto annexed the West Bank and it already just is apartheid and there is it's nothing but a Potemkin peace process and and the basically the West Bank is stolen and it already is.
Well, there's still millions of people there.
Right.
Even in 67, there was too much political pressure to push them all into the Jordan River or march them all into the Sinai Desert or something like that and do another knock by a junior or something like that.
They can't do it.
They couldn't even do it then.
They apparently can.
I guess the Americans would stop them if they tried to do it.
Now, people have told me many different experts have told me now that's never going to happen.
Well, what the hell are they going to do?
Because they really have put themselves painted themselves into a corner, so to speak, here where they have no other choices.
Right.
They can't back out now, as you said.
Physically, they could.
But politically speaking, they're not going to remove all those right wing settlers from the West Bank and bring them back to, you know, inside the green line.
And they can't knock everybody the hell away.
And yet they can't have an outright South African unapologetic apartheid system for decades into the future, because then somebody is going to BDS their ass.
Right.
So what is there a plan?
I must be missing something.
Right.
Well, here's here's the thing.
I mean, I mean, shockingly, people on the Israeli right and their neocon backers here in the United States don't see see this the way that you and I may see it, Scott.
They see this as, you know, the land, many of them see this as the land God gave Eretz Yisrael, in other words, all of the land between the river and the sea, according to this view, you know, and it's both a strategic view as well as for some a religious view.
All of this land between the so-called river and the sea, in other words, all of the West Bank, Gaza and Israel between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean is Eretz Yisrael.
In other words, it belongs to all of us.
And therefore, you know, we are we have the right to have it, to occupy it.
Not and their view is not there's not an occupation.
We are returning to our lands.
And so that's the mentality that also sets up a sort of a strategic plan.
One of the things I wrote about in this piece from Time Dispatch that you mentioned generously, by the way, thank you, is that this is really the culmination in a sense where we are now is the culmination of a vision laid out by people who moved into key positions in the in the George W.
Bush administration after Bush was elected in 2000.
But in 1996, when Netanyahu was beginning his first term, these people, including Richard Pearl, David Wormser, Douglas Faith, these are people who who later became important advisors and and officials in the Bush administration, laid out a vision for basically rejecting the notion of Oslo's idea of land for peace or giving up territory in order to have a peace deal.
The Palestinians essentially agreed to this.
I mean, this was a huge compromise from the standpoint of Arafat of the palace.
Yasser Arafat and the Palestinians to agree to give up their dream of all Palestine, to have everybody living together.
They agreed to a state on 22 percent of the land.
That's the West Bank and Gaza.
But Israel, you know, in principle gave lip service to that, but never really agreed to it and continued to colonize the land.
That was the vision of the neocons in the Israeli right.
So they don't see it.
They just see it as, hey, we have to manage the occupation.
Again, many don't even call it the occupation from the right.
But but this is our land.
You know, we have people who who are trying to be restive on our land, but it's ours.
And that's the view.
So like I you know, Barack Ehud Barak correctly identified the question, you know, as you know, you can either have a democracy or you can have a Jewish state.
But if you don't divide it and give Palestinians their own sovereign state, you can't have both.
If you have a Jewish state in all the land, it's apartheid.
And as you point out, Scott, we're already there.
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Right.
Well, so then I guess the part that I really screwed up was the idea that and where Ehud Barak screwed up was the idea that the world won't stand for this.
I mean, maybe the world won't, but the USA will.
And so the rest of the world can bite me.
Right.
That's basically the law.
Yeah, I mean, that's that's where we are at this moment, Scott.
But I honestly, you know, maybe this is part of what keeps anybody who writes about this and including Palestinians, perhaps just their their, you know, whatever their line of work is or whoever they may be, keeps keeps people going, which is it just.
You know, it can't stand forever.
I mean, Jim Crow fell, apartheid fell, and these are despite the vociferous objections of the Israel can do no wrong crowd.
These are apt comparisons to what's what's the reality on the ground right now in Palestine, in the West Bank.
This is the status quo.
And I just don't believe it can last forever.
It's going on now.
But I remember years ago when I was in Gaza, way, way before it fell to Hamas.
And it was soon after the beginning of the of the Oslo process.
And I interviewed a guy named Issa Shalwa, I believe his name.
And he was from a prominent Gaza family.
A lot of them had been officials and and mayors of Gaza and so on.
And and he he asked me, does Israel think America will always protect them, always give them arms and that they will always be the biggest power in the Middle East?
Do they really expect they can maintain this hold on us forever?
And that's, I think, you know, where we are at, you know, that's we're still in that place where America thinks it's always going to be a superpower.
The Israel is gambling that it will be so and then taking as much land as it possibly can.
But that does.
And meanwhile, sliming the nonviolent resistance and the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement as some sort of anti-Semitic threat.
You know, what does and this is one of the things that Hillary Clinton at the behest of her one of her biggest donors, Haim Saban, has the Israeli-American whose whose main claim to fame is the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers franchise.
And he's basically put in millions to her campaign of the Clinton Foundation, the Democratic National Committee.
I mean, at his behest, Hillary Clinton is sliming and attacking BDS as being anti-Semitic.
Does she prefer rockets?
You know, does she prefer suicide bombers?
What what is this?
I mean, is it do they just want Palestinians to surrender?
Yeah.
You know, even better would be if they would just go drown themselves or, you know, just somehow go away or or really even better, just stay not real people.
Just kind of be a figment of Republicans and Democrats imagination so that they don't really have to deal with what's happening here.
Right.
We'll just put it off and put it off.
Let it be.
We'll have a little peace process.
It'll be a Potemkin thing.
I love that.
That's her words.
I just I'll never forget that.
It's it's pretty it's pretty useful for us to write about this issue.
Yeah.
Well, and so, look, here's the thing, too, man, is that for people who for for regular folk, right, not people who like you and me do nothing but read all day, every day about all these kinds of things and whatever we can to learn.
But regular people, they may not even be able to picture a map of Israel from a bird's eye view very well, maybe sort of kind of.
And they really don't know much about the West Bank.
And if they don't see like a lot of or Gaza, for that matter, they'll see a lot of pictures and footage from the ground level of the Palestinian people being Palestinians and that kind of thing.
And, you know, probably if they picture an Arab at all, they're picturing some ISIS guy and a ninja mask and a K-47 waving it over his head or this kind of thing is the image from the media.
So my question to you, Sandy, is just how human are these Palestinians anyway?
Well, you know, I've spent 20 years traveling to Palestine, to to Israel as well, to Jerusalem and across the Holy Land.
And, you know, honestly, when I go to the West Bank, I feel so at home.
I feel so even though my Arabic is terrible, I really don't speak Arabic, you know, a couple hundred words, I guess.
But but the the welcoming spirit, I mean, Palestinian hospitality for those who have experienced it, for the thousands of outsiders who have experience is famous, you know, just people taking you in and welcoming you.
And and, you know, you walk down the street in Ramallah, for example, and this has happened to me a number of occasions and like I get lost, you know, you're a traveler, you're a journalist trying to figure out where some office or street is and and you ask somebody and and and he's like walking in the other direction and he goes, oh, oh, do you know, he will take you by the hand and turn around and walk you by the hand and point until he knows that, you know, where you're going.
I mean, one time, just another story.
One time I I tore a calf muscle or I strained a calf muscle badly doing exercises in Jerusalem and I had to take a little minibus up to Ramallah that day to start renting this flat where I was working on my book Children of the Stone and I was going to be based there for a few weeks and I had such a bad limp that I was like limping up from the from the bus station to the to this flat and the whole family was waiting for me and saw me coming and they like immediately came out.
One of them happened to be a doctor.
He goes to talk to another doctor who's a specialist.
It was a Saturday afternoon.
They got me an appointment right away and meanwhile, the family went out and shopped for me because I could barely walk and I come back from the doctor healed with groceries in my kitchen.
I mean, and this, you know, when you tell Palestinians about that, they'll smile and say, yes, yes, that's who we are.
I mean, the welcoming spirit, you know, obviously, there's a lot of sadness, a lot of rage, a lot of tension.
I mean, I don't mean to romanticize an entire people, but the welcoming that I've had and the, you know, the friendships that I have among Palestinians are deep and profound.
I mean, I, the guy who wrote this book about Ramzi Abu Ridwan is a musician who started these music schools, a Palestinian musician.
You know, we just went on tour with the book and his music and his French-Arabic ensemble.
We were on the East Coast.
We're going to do a West Coast tour next year in the spring and, you know, he's, Ramzi's become a friend.
And his, you know, my wife and I went and stayed with his wife and Ramzi and his wife and their two little boys when I presented my book in Jerusalem and Ramallah.
And you know, the sense, and then there's the children.
I mean, the kids who have such dreams and such spirit and such sense of, like, wanting freedom.
I mean, the universal sense that you have among Palestinians more than anything else is they want freedom.
Well, yeah, you know, I think there's a real problem here, too, in just, and I don't know what we can ever do to change this now, where the whole dang terror war is so mixed up in all the TV and political power narratives with Islam and Arabs in general and this kind of thing that, you know, people think even, well, I mean, all kinds of people.
It's just a matter of it's sort of like you fear what you don't understand.
You also just kind of assume the worst about those who you don't know kind of a thing where, you know, to say that Arabs of any place in any description want freedom, that sounds laughable to people.
Nuh-uh.
They all want Sharia law.
They all just want to, you know, they want power for themselves, not for the other people, but want to be free to live their own life and raise their own kids and tend their own crops and just try to be a person just like everybody else in the world.
That's not true.
We all know that they all have telepathy with each other and they're all in on the big Islamo-fascist plot to hate and kill all Jews and white North American Christians and whatever, this kind of thing.
And all these narratives, all these, basically these TV, you know, partial truths and wholesale lies are so built up that, you know, to hear you talk about, yeah, you know, these Palestinians that like to sit around playing violins together where it's like, huh, what is he even talking about?
Right.
Nobody's ever heard of such a thing before.
Right.
They just, they don't ever let us see that.
Yeah.
And, you know, I guess a lot of what I've been trying to do with this new book, Children of the Stone, and also just, I mean, sort of what I've, what I've tried to do throughout my career, which is now a 35-year-old career, going back to the early 80s, is just try to find stories that, you know, that sort of turn our perceptions on their heads and show people as human.
And it's as true with the Palestinian issue as anything I've ever encountered.
I mean, my view of this general tragedy between Israel and Palestine is that we have to change the conversation.
We have to change the narrative to bring in the humanity of all the people, not just, you know, not to demonize Israelis either and, you know, and foment, you know, this notion that they're all, that some people have, that they're not human.
But in the last five years, my focus has been on unoccupied people, because I think that's the thing that's least understood and least acknowledged in our culture and in our press is, who are these people?
Who are these children?
What is it like to be a kid learning music under a military occupation?
And that's what I spent five years doing in this book, because I felt like, you know, that could be at least my own modest contribution to changing the conversation and seeing the occupation as one of the very, very biggest and most tragic obstacles to solving this whole mess.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I'm sure you saw this too, that back in the 2014 war, I guess it just wasn't like this in 2012.
Not quite as much, but 2014 was the real breakthrough where there were enough Palestinians, enough Gazans on Twitter with at least 3G phones.
I guess Israel finally let them have 3G.
And so they were able to take pictures of the devastation and do first person reporting from Palestine in real time on Twitter.
And it was, you know, the battle of the hashtags and this and that.
And the way I remember, I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of footnotes offhand or whatever, but the way I remember it was American opinion on the war and who was the victim and who was the aggressor and this kind of thing.
And the polls shifted quite a bit for the first time in a long time.
And it was because we didn't have to rely on NBC or the rest of TV to tell us what was going on.
People were looking on Facebook and Twitter.
And it was just, it's hard to pretend that a few bottle rockets going over the wall have, you know, compare in any way to the kind of, you know, F-16 onslaught that the Israelis were delivering on the Palestinians.
And then that created a lot of pressure on the regular media to actually include a little bit more of the Palestinian side than they normally would.
So I think, you know, that's the kind of thing where hopefully technology is going to help to bring about those kind of changes to, as you say, changing the conversation, changing the frame of reference of what we're talking about.
Is Gaza an armed compound of Hamas terrorists?
Or is it a place where the majority of the population are actually minors and they're held prisoner by the Israelis' trustees, Hamas, the terrorists, you know, this kind of thing.
Or whatever it is, just how unfair the fight is.
People who don't even have handguns up against First World Army, you know, locked basically in concentration camps and can't flee in any direction and this kind of thing.
TV was never going to tell the American people about that, but Twitter will.
And they haven't figured out a way to quite filter all that out yet.
Maybe that's coming.
But it seems like that's the kind of thing like along the lines of what you're saying is saying, hey, everybody, look at these kids.
Look at look at this conflict from a different perspective here for a minute.
It seems like it's becoming more and more unavoidable, you know, that people see it that way.
Yeah, I think you've raised a really important point about the role of social media.
I do have to say, though, that I mean, The Guardian, you know, and a number of other papers, including, you know, Ben Hubbard of The New York Times did really, really outstanding work from Gaza talking about the human costs on the ground.
But I do think, yeah, social media clearly played a role.
You know, both the conventional media and social media did, you know, a really important job in a number of the most horrific individual stories.
You know, the four little boys who were killed on the beach, basically slaughtered by incoming Israeli missiles from the sea.
It was apparent that they were targeted and and, you know, The Guardian and The New York Times wrote important pieces on that.
But I also think you're right.
Social media.
I mean, there was an NBC reporter who is, you know, an Arab American or maybe he was Egyptian.
I can't remember a reporter who was telling the truth for NBC and they were going to fire him and social media basically helped force NBC to retain him.
So I think I think that there is that there is that issue, especially for the for the younger people, the millennials, and this is maybe why, you know, some of them are in polls show more sympathy toward the Palestinians and less toward Israel, because they are not going through the traditional filters and the gatekeepers who, you know, are the the arbiters of opinion.
They're seeing there's when they see, you know, children dying on the beach.
They don't really need to have that explained to them.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, listen, I'll let you go, Sandy, but I sure appreciate you coming back on the show to talk about this stuff.
Yeah, it's always good to talk to you, Scott.
And thanks for your interest.
All right.
That is Sandy Tolan.
You can find him at Tom Dispatch dot com with this one, the death of the two state solution, a.k.a. throwing in the towel.
His books are The Lemon Tree and Children of the Stone about music schools in the West Bank.
He is a professor at the Annenberg School for Journalism and Communication at USC.
That's Scott Horton Show.
Thanks, y'all very much for listening.
Check out the new thing, man.
Libertarian Institute dot org slash Scott Horton Show for the archives.
And, you know, just the first part for the rest of the site there.
It's the brand new institute.
I'm the managing director of it.
Welcome to it.
Libertarian Institute dot org.
And we'll see you next time.
Thanks.
Hey, I'll Scott here.
Ever wanted to help support the show and own silver at the same time.
Well, a friend of mine, libertarian activist Arlo Pinotti, has invented the alternative currency with the most promise of them all.
QR Silver Commodity Discs, the first ever QR code one ounce silver pieces.
Just scan the back of one with your phone and get the instant spot price.
They're perfect for saving or spending at the market.
And anyone who donates a hundred dollars or more to the Scott Horton Show at Scott Horton dot org slash donate gets one.
That's Scott Horton dot org slash donate.
And if you'd like to learn and order more, send them a message at Commodity Discs dot com or check them out on Facebook at slash Commodity Discs.
Thanks.
I love Bitcoin, but there's just something incredibly satisfying about having real fine silver in your pocket.
That's why commodity discs are so neat.
They're one ounce rounds of fine silver with a QR code on the back.
Just grab your smartphone's QR reader, scan the coin and you'll instantly get the silver spot price in Federal Reserve notes and Bitcoin.
And if you donate a hundred bucks to the Scott Horton Show, he'll send you one.
Learn more at Facebook dot com slash Commodity Discs Commodity Discs dot com.
Hey, I'll check out the audio book of Lou Rockwell's Fascism versus Capitalism, narrated by me, Scott Horton at Audible dot com.
It's a great collection of his essays and speeches on the important tradition of liberty from medieval history to the Ron Paul Revolution.
Rockwell blasts our status enemies, profiles our greatest libertarian heroes and prescribes the path forward in the battle against Leviathan fascism versus capitalism by Lou Rockwell for audio book.
Find it at Audible, Amazon, iTunes or just click in the right margin of my website at Scott Horton dot org.
Thank you.
Have a great day.
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