10/12/15 – Bojan Budimac – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, you guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
On the line, I have Boyan Budimac.
You might remember, just interviewed him for the first time a couple of weeks ago.
He's a longtime friend of the show, and he is, if I remember it right, if I have it right, a Serbian reporter for a Bosnian newspaper based in Turkey.
Welcome back to the show, Boyan.
How are you doing?
Fine, thank you.
Good, good.
Very happy to have you back on the show.
It is a very sad occasion.
I believe they're saying the worst terrorist attack in Turkish history.
Okay, total rises to 128 killed in suicide bombings at Turkish peace rally.
Police attack mourners near site of Saturday blast.
That's the headline at antiwar.com.
Can you, first of all, just give us the basic facts of who, what, when, and where, as best you know?
Well, it was a rally which was organized by a very marginal, margin of the margin of the political life, Federation of Revolutionary Workers Union, and so-called that pro-Kurdish party, which is HDP, which is basically political wing of the PKK, Kurdish Workers Party, which is waging war against the state for now, for the decade.
So it is a little bit strange, if not cynical, that the party, which is a political party of the organization which declared war on the state on 11 July, is organizing a peace rally.
But okay, that's what it is all about.
Now, the strange thing about this particular terror attack was there were few announcements that that is going to happen.
First, and first is not that important, but it is a general threat against the state.
Murat Karayilan, the acting leader of PKK, because the leader of PKK, Abdullah Öcalan, is in jail, threatened that the brigades of immortals, that is, the PKK's brigades of suicide bombers, will start actions in metropolises.
That was threat which he gave two weeks ago.
Then, on the Twitter, two strange accounts, less than 12 hours before the bombing happened, actually announced it and described it pretty accurately, what is going to happen.
Now, I see that in foreign media it is a little bit strange that the Prime Minister just accused ISIS, I mean the Islamic State.
No, he made a short list of the main suspects, suspect organizations, and on the top of that is ISIS.
Then, immediately comes the PKK, and after it comes THCP, Dehakapece, Dehakapece is in the Turkish pronunciation.
That is a revolutionary, socialist, whatever, one terrorist organization which is active here for a few decades, which is often doing the suicide bombing, and ultra-leftist organization, which is active since 2013, pretty much.
They have a suicide bomber in February 2013 against US Embassy.
Which group did you say that was again?
Huh?
Which group did you say that was again?
Dehakapece, slash C. Dehakapece, slash C.
And you say they're far leftist, but they do suicide attacks like the Islamists?
Yes, well, didn't you read Professor Pompei?
Of course.
I've been preaching that for 10 years actually.
It's interesting, I mean the PKK doesn't have a history of suicide attacks though, right?
The PKK are more like the Basque separatists.
They just sort of blow up a wall of a building or something.
They have history of suicide attacks going back to 90s, yes.
I thought the PKK typically would sort of call in a bomb threat and give people a warning and set off a small bomb, more to make a point than really mass casualty attacks.
That's what happened on the 5th of June on a pre-election rally for the Kurdish party in Diyarbakir.
Now, I mean, in the last six months we had three major terrorist attacks.
All three are blamed on ISIS, but for the first one, which was in Diyarbakir, on a pre-election campaign, pre-election rally for HDP, it is now known that it was a PKK false flag attack.
Then we have that Suruc, which on the 20th of July, that again, I mean, Scott, it is amazing how this in Ankara is just a replay of that attack in Suruc.
I mean, in structure and detail, and who are the victims?
Namely, there was also a marginal group of revolutionary socialist club federation.
Also leftist, also organization was mutual, HDP, the Kurdish party, and them.
All right, let's hold it right there.
Music's playing.
We got to take this break, Bojan.
When we get back, we'll have more with Bojan Budimac, a Serbian reporter for a Bosnian paper in Turkey, talking about the suicide attack that took place over the weekend, the possible suspects, the likely reactions, etc.
More in a minute.
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Hey, man.
Welcome back, y'all.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show, Scott Horton Show.
It's libertarian foreign policy for the most part.
I'm talking with Boyan Budimac, who is a reporter based in Turkey.
And we're talking about the massive suicide attack that took place over the weekend.
Apparently, nobody's claiming responsibility.
And so suspicions are being cast quite broadly on all these different possible groups who may have done it or this or that, the other thing.
And, of course, everybody seems to have already made up their mind who they want to have been the perpetrator.
So that's a big part of the explanations that come out.
Let's start back at the top now.
It doesn't look like Al-Nusra would have done this because the Turkish government loves Al-Nusra.
And Al-Nusra loves the Turkish government.
No reason to think that they would have done this.
The Islamic State, I don't know.
I mean, I guess, you know, Turkey still is, I don't know, the government.
But at least they're allowing the purchase of a lot of black market oil from the Islamic State, supposedly.
So there's some kind of mutually dependent relationship there, if not, you know, outright collusion with the Islamic State.
It seems like it would be a pretty dumb move on the part of the Islamic State to do an attack like this on the Kurds inside Turkey.
But maybe I'm just missing a dynamic that would make that work in their favor.
But I don't know whether that makes sense to you under any argument that the Islamic State would have done it.
Other than just they do have legions of suicide attackers, so that would make it easy for them to have done it.
I doubt that it is Islamic State.
Everybody would love it if it is Islamic State because of political correctness, kind of.
Namely, but, I mean, Islamic State, that was underreported, but reported.
I mean, who wants to know knows that the Islamic State declared the war on Turkey.
And declared, I mean, made the fatwa about Erdogan as an infidel and so on and so on.
Anyway, if Islamic State would be capable to organize a so successful terrorist attack in the capital of Turkey, it would claim it immediately.
This terrorist attack, all three actually terrorist attacks which I mentioned before are still unclaimed.
For Suruc, some media, murder media, claimed that Islamic State claimed it, but there is just their claim that Islamic State claimed.
I mean, no video, no audio, nothing.
So do you have your suspicions then and you think this is all smokescreen for what exactly?
Well, if we are questioning Kibbono, well, this is, for me, it is completely regardless of who the actual perpetrator is.
Because that can be smokescreen as well.
It is about inner domestic politics.
It doesn't have anything to do with fighting ISIS or Syria or this.
No, this is destabilization of Turkey trying to push AK Party, ruling AK Party into coalition with Kemalists.
That is the name of the game.
Into a coalition with who?
With the Kemalists.
Oh, okay.
With the Republican People's Party.
In other words, you think that the secular pro-U.S. military types must be behind it then?
Well, they are not pro-U.S., Scott, at all.
Or the U.S. is pro-them?
I mean, well, yes.
The U.S. certainly prefers the secular nationalists to the Islamists, don't they, in Turkey?
Yes, certainly.
I mean, the U.S. prefers the army to be in the background.
I mean, and all those deals which were on before AK Party coming to power to continue.
Actually, you know what?
I mean, in the 90s, Turkey was the second receiver of American army aid, thanks to war with Kurds.
And in the same time, second buyer of American weapons.
Of course, again, because of war with the PKK.
I mean, of course, U.S. wants that all time back.
Secularists want that all time back.
PKK wants that all time back.
So, that is, I mean, I told you last time that peace process is, the things that are driving the dynamics of domestic politics in Turkey is the peace process and the prospect of new constitution where everybody who is living inside of Turkey, I mean, Turkey would be the state of its citizens, not of Turks.
Understand me?
I mean, that is a revolutionary change.
I mean, civilian constitution.
Well, those two things are driving domestic politics and everything is revolving about those two things.
AK Party is pushing both peace process and changing of constitution.
Now, when at least peace process was very close, we have declaration of war by PKK, we have chaos in the country.
Understand me?
That is the, I mean, I can't blame PKK.
Maybe PKK is not involved technically in this.
Maybe this DHCK did it.
I mean, physically perpetrated.
But there is a collusion of those forces, I mean, secularists, PKK, Kurdish Party, ultranationalists even, in the resistance to the reform which AK Party is pushing for.
Okay, so you're saying the push is to change the constitution to make it more secular and inclusive, not of Turkic peoples, but of all the people who live inside the country.
And the PKK don't want that because that helps the moderate Kurdish factions at their commie terrorist expense.
Well, PKK, I mean, there was a commission for forming the new constitution, which was working for two and a half years.
And they couldn't agree almost on anything.
And why Kurdish Party, which was involved in that commission, and commission was completely, I mean, fairly, it was not reflection of the relations of the power in the parliament, but every party had the equal number of commissioners.
Well, Kurdish Party was rejecting the civilian constitution by which the state would be the state of its citizens, with the argument that they want themselves to be a constitutional people inside the constitution.
You understand?
They wanted some kind of positive discrimination.
You know, which would open then a floodgate, because here 25, 26 ethnic groups are living.
You know, the problem is that Kurds are the biggest one.
But if they got exceptional treatment in the constitution, then why not Arabs, why not, I don't know.
Understand me?
Yes.
In other words, they're pushing for sort of an ethnic federalism and autonomy based on ethnic factions that would end up tearing the whole country apart, is what you're saying.
Exactly.
And that was blocking the work of that constitution commission.
And that constitution commission was basically, I mean, the work was abandoned some, I don't know, a year ago.
And it was hoped that by the new system that that party will be able to make the switch to presidential system.
Now, what is the system now?
Now the system is a bastard system, something between parliamentary and presidential system.
Namely, everybody is forgetting that the constitution was written by the army junta, and it was tailored for the coup d'etat leader, General Kenan Evren, at that time.
So it is half presidential.
I mean, the president has a lot of leverages, but after Kenan Evren, no president used it.
So people forgot what are the injurances, I mean, what are the rights of the president.
But still, it is not presidential, neither it is parliamentarian.
So the blockage of the political life is very easy to do here.
That's why AK Party wanted to switch presidential system to presidential system.
And it was not the first initiative in the history of Turkey.
I mean, back to 70s, you had those initiatives for pushing for presidential system.
Sounds like it's better off, you know, not perfect, but status quo is better, you know, to have gridlock than to have any one faction with too much ability to lord it over the others.
Get a little bit of checks and balances in there, at least in a de facto sort of sense, it sounds like, no?
Well, I don't know, but it is blocking, and when you see the behavior of the opposition here, and how it is not capable even to agree on very simple things which are obviously good for the country, just because of the party politics and party rivalism and such, then it might be good that you have some authority who would cut the crap and say, no, we are going this way, understand me?
I mean, still, of course, check and balance is, of course, implying.
I mean, they were looking something towards American system.
Of course, not one-on-one.
I mean, this is a complicating country, and the constitution is complicated.
Historically, it is not a short document.
It is a huge document, very, very detailed.
I mean, kind of law, not just constitution.
Anyway, all that is happening, as I said, are just around those two things, peace with the PKK and changing the constitution.
Now, it is good to put this terrorist act in Ankara in that context as well, because there are promises both by other politicians, I mean, political powers with representatives, and also the political powers without representatives.
For example, Gulenists are threatening that they will turn the country to ungovernable state if AK Party continues to rule alone.
You know?
And that is kind of happening, actually, now.
You know?
Yeah.
Man, I sure need to read up on this stuff.
I like listening to you, but I just don't know who are good sources to read about what's going on in Turkey.
And I'll have to write you a few long mails, because it is interesting.
Hey, why don't you write a few articles for us at Antiwar.com?
Okay.
Why not?
Yeah.
You said it would be too difficult to try to translate your journalism with Google Translate or whatever.
No, I can write in English.
Yeah, no, your emails to me have been great.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, maybe put something together for Antiwar.com.
Okay, no problem.
No problem.
I'll be glad to.
Cool.
You know, I mean, for example, and that is very compatible with Siebel Edmonds, for example.
She knows, I remember her mentioning in one of your shows, she knows about Abdullah Chutla Gladio, NATO Gladio.
Oh, yes.
Now, interesting piece of data which surfaced just three years ago, surfaced in the media.
The photograph of Abdullah Ocalan, the PKK leader, playing football in the prison with whom?
With Abdullah Chutla.
I mean, coincidence?
I don't know, man.
Maybe not.
I mean, there are serious questions about the emergence of PKK if it is not part of the Gladio or Parasate cartels, as I call those things.
Hey, listen, tell me what you find out about that.
I'd love to read about that if anybody's ever really written it up before or if you get a chance to.
Well, there are hints.
There are a lot of hints, you know.
And Ocalan, even being in jail now for 15 years, is a so good informed person that it is not normal.
That is very, very fishy.
Well, now, America certainly supported Turkey's war against the Kurds in the 1990s to great degrees.
Millions, billions of dollars in weapons and everything to do, I think so.
But that doesn't mean that they, you know, in fact, that may be even more an indication that they created and were friends with the PKK because that's what you get for being friends of America's bomb to death.
Everybody knows that.
So wherever our bombs are falling, those are where our allies live.
Hey, I better go because I'm back on in one minute.
We're into the break now.
But thanks so much for doing the show again, Boyan.
Talk to you again soon.
Thanks again.
OK.
Thank you.
Please write us up an article for anti-war, too.
I'll run it.
OK.
OK.
Bye-bye.
All right, so that is Boyan Budimac, and he is a Serbian reporter for a Bosnian newspaper in Turkey.
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