10/06/14 – Jonathan Landay – The Scott Horton Show

You hate government?
One of them libertarian types?
Or maybe you just can't stand the president, gun grabbers, or warmongers.
Me too.
That's why I invented libertystickers.com.
Well, Rick owns it now, and I didn't make up all of them, but still.
If you're driving around and want to tell everyone else how wrong their politics are, there's only one place to go.
Libertystickers.com has got your bumper covered.
Left, right, libertarian, empire, police, state, founders, quote, central banking.
Yes, bumper stickers about central banking.
Lots of them.
And, well, everything that matters.
Libertystickers.com.
Everyone else's stickers suck.
All right, y'all.
Welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's my show, The Scott Horton Show.
Up next, we got Jonathan Landay from McClatchy Newspapers.
That's McClatchyDC.com.
Boy, do we have a lot of important stuff to talk about.
Welcome back to the show.
How are you doing, Jonathan?
I'm well, thank you very much.
Thanks for having me back.
Very good to have you here.
Very good to read your report in here.
I found out the Modesto Bee.
It's a constant struggle to get around the McClatchy paywall these days.
Sorry about that.
We got families to feed.
I understand.
But here's the plot to get around it.
Don't tell the bosses, Jonathan, I said so.
There's the SAC Bee, and there's the Mod Bee, and there's the Miami Herald sometimes, too, will let us look at your stuff.
They all have paywalls, too.
But you have to ration out which websites you view, which Prothero and Landay articles at.
But anyway, so here we go.
Boots in the air.
U.S. helicopters return to combat in Iraq for the first time.
And, well, go ahead.
Tell me a story.
Well, so it was my colleague in Erbil, in Kurdistan, Iraqi Kurdistan, Mitchell Prothero, who first noticed...
Oh, God, I've been saying his last name wrong this whole time, too.
No, you've been saying it right.
Actually, it's Prothero.
Oh, okay, I was going to say, because I've been calling him Mitchell, but he likes to be called Mitch, and I knew I screwed that up.
Well, that's the way we talk.
That's what we call him.
All right.
Anyway, so...
Larissa still calls you Landy, so it's all right.
It's true.
So he noticed that on this, you know, the standard Central Command emailed press releases that we get every day, which is the only way we really find out, at least on a day-to-day basis, a modicum of what's going on in terms of the U.S. intervention in Iraq and Syria, that for the first time they mentioned that helicopter gunships had been used against the Islamic State just outside of Baghdad.
And it's the first time that Army helicopters have been used in this intervention, and it represents sort of a new phase in that before, the air campaign consisted of, you know, what are referred to as fast movers, you know, combat jets, bombers, and drones.
And now you have these helicopters, which, you know, troops refer to as flying low and slow, at least relative to the fast movers, which is a whole new level of risk in terms of what the Obama administration is prepared to allow U.S. troops there to do.
But beyond that, it's also an indication that the airstrikes by the fast movers have not succeeded in preventing the Islamic State from massing and moving in offensive actions.
And the fact that this is happening close to Baghdad was pretty significant.
So that's what we wrote.
Yeah.
Well, like you say, it goes to show that so far bombing them with F-18s, it hasn't stopped them from getting this far, if in fact that was part of it.
I mean, I know that there was a siege of that military base, I think just on the other side of Abu Ghraib from Baghdad, that the base ended up falling and the soldiers were ambushed and killed.
Patrick Coburn wrote just, what, a week ago, right?
And now was there American airpower?
I think you're talking about Camp Spiker.
Is that what you're talking about?
I'm not certain which base it was.
It didn't go by that name in the article I read.
I can pull it up here probably.
But well, so do you know, was there airpower, American airpower deployed there or only up in Kurdistan?
No, I mean, American airpower has been deployed around Baghdad for some time now, because the Islamic State, you know, they've essentially overrun most of Anbar province now.
And they, and Mitch wrote last week about how they had actually moved into the verges of Baghdad's western suburbs.
They've, it appears that they've basically taken over the infamous town of Abu Ghraib, which is where the infamous prison is located.
And are now kind of on the western edges of Baghdad.
And that kind of puts them within shelling distance, or pretty close to Baghdad International Airport, which is where hundreds of American advisors, military advisors are based.
There's a joint operations center there where American and Iraqi officers work together to coordinate ground and air operations.
And it's also kind of the way the United States would evacuate the largest embassy it has anywhere in the world.
Yeah.
Which is why American troops, one of the places they were sent when President Obama decided to intervene, was Baghdad International Airport to increase the security there.
Well, and as you said, that's where these helicopters are stationed now, right?
And by the way, I pulled up the Cobra and he says that Saqlawiyah is the base.
Is that the Spitzer base, or do you know?
I have no idea.
Well, anyway, he says on the 21st of September, oh, so it was a couple of weeks back, that it was completely overrun.
And I knew that there had been some strikes near Baghdad, but I wasn't sure if that was an ongoing thing or, anyway.
It doesn't seem like flying F-18s around is going to prevent the Islamic State fighters from traveling from Fallujah to the outskirts of Baghdad.
There are still Sunni neighborhoods in southwest Baghdad for them to be based out of, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And, but we knew this right from the beginning.
I mean, even the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has acknowledged that you can't really deal with these guys without a plan.
You can't really deal with these guys without a ground force.
And at the moment, at least in Iraq, that ground force is the Iraqi army.
And in some circumstances, it's been Shiite militias.
And in Syria, of course, there really isn't one.
And that's something that the Obama administration is trying to rectify by, with this plan of theirs to create, to train and arm a Syrian opposition force, moderate, quote, moderate vetted Syrian opposition force.
But we're quite a ways away from that.
Well, and I want to get back to that, because you've got a great- But on the Iraqi side of things, I mean, the fact is that, you know, the Iraqi army all but collapsed when the Islamic State launched its offensive in mid-June.
It had at least four divisions just basically disintegrate.
And they're trying to rebuild it.
That's part of the American plan, is trying to sort of rebuild the broken Iraqi army, which was, you know, infected with nepotism and corruption and bad officers.
And so that's going on.
And it's not, you know, it's not a force that is fully capable of being able to defend its own country.
Well, I mean, that's the whole thing of it is, it seems to me like that's not really right.
But depending on how you define their own country, they can defend Baghdad because- Well, we have to wait and see, Scott.
We're not sure.
I mean, you know, they haven't been able to stop the car bombings.
You know, we had in the lead up to the offensive in June by the Islamic State, which went first at Mosul.
There was an increase, something like, I want to, I'm probably going to get my dates wrong, but between 2012 and 2013, it went for something like 10 to 15 car bombs a week to over 50.
I mean- Yeah, but that's in Sunnistan that's now declared independence.
No, no, it was happening in Baghdad.
Oh, I see what you mean.
Yeah, but still, keeping out suicide bombers isn't- That's still- And these guys have now, they're all the way in the southern, I mean, they're all the way south of Baghdad, you know, close to several of the Shiite religious, the most, you know, the holiest towns in Shiism, the Jaffa and Karbala.
And the Iraqi army has been unable to deal with it.
Yeah, well, but that's because really the militias, though, the Bata Brigade and the part of the Bata Brigade that's not, aka the Iraqi army, and the Saudis, they haven't really gone to war for Baghdad.
I mean, it's not like there's an invasion for them to repel yet, but it's their city now because Bush gave it to them.
So I don't know how they could possibly lose it with an 85% super majority in the city now, but the damn music's playing.
We got to take this break.
But when we get back, we'll talk more with Jonathan Landay about the Iraq and Syria war here.
Hey, Al.
Scott Horton here to tell you about this great new book by Michael Swanson, The War State.
In The War State, Swanson examines how Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy both expanded and fought to limit the rise of the new national security state after World War II.
If this nation is ever to live up to its creed of liberty and prosperity for everyone, we are going to have to abolish the empire.
Know your enemy.
Get The War State by Michael Swanson.
It's available at your local bookstore or at amazon.com in Kindle or in paperback.
Just click the book in the right margin at scotthorton.org or thewarstate.com.
All right, guys.
Welcome back to the show here.
I'm Scott Horton.
Sorry, I meant to take that deep breath before I hit the button, not after.
But none of these things happen.
I'm talking with Jonathan S. Landay.
He warned you about the neocons lining into war back in 02 and 03 and 01 and 02 and 03.
And he's reporting now for McClatchy Newspapers at McClatchyDC.com.
And so where we left off, we're talking about just how much relative strength the so-called Iraqi army and the Shiite militias have as compared to the Islamic state in Baghdad.
And I guess you're right.
I mean, we still don't really know if ISIS and, say, Saudis group go, you know, head to head in battle or or even low-level warfare over a few months exactly how that's going to shape out.
But it sure sounds like we agree that the Shiite militias in the Iraqi army are in no position whatsoever and maybe will never be in a position to take, quote unquote, back the cities of Mosul and Fallujah and Tikrit and Bakuba and these other supermajority Sunni cities.
That's just basically a pipe dream that there's ever going to be a so-called central government in Baghdad ruling over a state of Iraq again.
Yeah, I mean, we're just going to have to wait and see.
But there's very little prospect of that at the moment.
And again, I know we we keep talking about how Baghdad is the supermajority Shiite city now.
But, you know, it doesn't take a lot to panic a city.
It doesn't take a lot of violence.
And you have this group that is absolutely feared and that has terrorized the areas that it has taken over.
It's proven to be much more proficient at urban combat than the Iraqi army.
And, you know, we can write off that they're going to conquer Baghdad.
But to sow panic and terror and shut down the city and take neighborhoods, I wouldn't put that out of the realm of a very good possibility.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, when it comes to being mean, he's got as long as state guys got nothing on the Sotiris or the Bata Brigade, torture or murders.
But they've all done it.
I mean, they all do it.
Yeah, they're all as bad as each other.
Yeah, yeah, they certainly are.
So when it comes to, you know, the willingness to fight ruthlessly and that kind of thing seems about an even match.
But it may come down to just who has more American artillery to shoot at each other.
I mean, but again, when you have a built up place like Baghdad and you're in fierce urban street fights, artillery is not going to do a hell of a lot of good for you.
Yeah.
Well, I was thinking more about what you were talking about, just sowing panic and chaos.
Oh, absolutely.
Exactly.
I mean, that was what Mitch said, was they could just shell Baghdad from 30 miles away.
That's right.
And show them all damn day.
That's right.
And, you know, just kind of that.
Although I actually don't see them actually being able to do that, because I got to say the one thing that the United States airpower can do is take those kinds of things out and take out heavy artillery.
That's not something that the Islamic State is going to be able to keep sacrosanct from airstrikes.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, let's switch back to Syria here.
I was trying to get you on last week, but you're busy.
But this piece here from the second U.S. and anti-Assad rebels in Syria remain at odds over the role of al-Qaeda's Nusra Front.
And there's just so many contradictions and ironies and conflicts and things in here.
It's just absolutely incredible.
Can you take us through it?
Well, sure.
I mean, we know that in the first round of airstrikes that the United States staged in Syria, one of their targets was Jabhat al-Nusra, the Nusra Front, which is the official al-Qaeda syndicate in Syria.
And this did not sit well with the non-Islamic State rebel groups because they work very closely with the Nusra Front.
The Nusra Front is probably the most effective rebel fighting force next to the Islamic State.
And here the United States was attacking a force that other Syrian rebels fighting the Assad regime are very much aligned with.
And so there were protests, actually, in some of the Nusra Front-held areas, as well as other areas, against the United States targeting Nusra.
Right.
And it seemed like pretty big and popular protests, too.
And really, isn't it the case, Jonathan, that the al-Nusra Front has always been the vanguard and not just in doing the actual fighting, but in numbers, too, in this rebellion in Syria for the last three years?
I wouldn't say for three years, Scott.
I mean, they really didn't show up until the year two of the Civil War in any major way.
And let's not forget, if they were sent there by Mr. Baghdadi, who's the head of the Islamic State, they were one and the same once upon a time.
And yes, I mean, next to the Islamic State, they are the most combat-proficient rebel group fighting in Syria.
You know, I actually spent a little time in their territory in one of the Damascus suburbs last time I was there, back in May.
I was doing a piece on efforts to stamp out this return of polio.
And the only area in which Nusra and the regime are cooperating is allowing the Red Crescent into besieged suburbs or besieged areas held by the opposition to inoculate children.
And so, Nusra actually allowed me to go in to one of the suburbs of Damascus that they hold to watch an immunization program and take pictures.
And it just shows you kind of, you know, the sophistication of this group.
Yes, they knew I was an American, but they also wanted to try and sort of put out this, you know, the idea that they recognize humanitarian needs, and particularly when it comes to children.
The irony, of course, being that on the other hand, of course, you know, they stage car bombings and kill kids.
And the regime, you know, fires barrel bombs and kills kids.
So it's kind of ironic that these two groups are cooperating and trying to, you know, inoculate children against polio and at the same time are killing children.
Well, yeah, it's a public relations thing more than anyone else.
I mean, these are warring armies after all.
But yeah, I mean, the Nusra guys, they actually kidnapped our friend David Enders and then let him go after two weeks.
Indeed.
Back last year, which is just thank goodness for that, that he's safe.
That's amazing.
But yeah, I mean, this is the big contradiction is trying to turn the policy around and they can't quite turn it around back to Assad.
Like Bill Clinton and George W.
Bush used to work with Assad against the Mujahideen.
They're trying to forge this third way now.
But and everybody agrees that this is a pipe dream, too, right?
They're going to train up 5000 new non-extremist Mujahideen in Saudi for a year, and then they're going to send them back.
And these 5000 guys are going to take on Nusra, ISIS and Assad and Hezbollah, too, on the other.
Yeah, it sounds kind of pie in the sky, doesn't it?
Yeah, well, I wonder how serious they are about this.
Well, I think they're serious.
I mean, you know, the CIA is working with with groups, certain groups in both the north and the south of of Syria.
I think they think they know people they can trust in terms of that effort.
But, you know, a lot can happen in a year and a lot can change in a year.
And so we'll have to wait and see.
But but there are so many unaddressed details and unknowns that this this program is going to have to that this program faces, that this effort faces, that it's hard to imagine that, you know, in a year from now, it's going to go the way the administration envisions it.
You know, the enemy gets a vote.
Don't forget, the enemy gets to decide, you know, how it's going to react to the American plans.
And as people in the military like to say, you know, a plan generally doesn't survive the first contact with the enemy.
Right.
So we'll have to wait and see.
But yeah, I mean, as I said, a lot can happen in a year.
And I'm just not sure what they think they can accomplish with this in a year's time.
Yeah.
Well, you know, over there in the chat room, they're talking about all the members of the coalition now.
They all have all their own motives.
We can see right now where the Turks, even though their parliament declared war, gave Erdogan the authority, they're just sitting there and letting ISIS wipe out the PKK commie rebels that they already have.
That's right.
That's right.
So never even mind the enemy.
These are our best friends here.
Except, you know, I wouldn't doubt that if the Turks can, you know, if they succeed in by not intervening in Kobani, really hurting the PKK, then going in themselves and taking over that, you know, and establishing a PKK free zone on their border.
Good luck with that.
That hasn't worked so well in the last 30 years.
Well, that's right.
All right.
Oh, we got to go.
Thank you, Jonathan.
Appreciate it.
Jonathan Landay, everybody.
KlatchyDC.com.
See you tomorrow.
Hey, all.
Scott here for Whole Food Multicomplete at WholeFoodComplete.com.
Whole Food Multicomplete is an entire supplement program in one bottle containing 100% RDA of vitamins and minerals, plus live probiotics, digestive enzymes, antioxidant herbs, energy nutrients, and more.
It's made in America using real foods and live probiotics.
No chemical synthetics.
It's soy free, gluten free, and independently tested and verified.
They're so sure you'll love it.
They're taking 20% off your first order with coupon code Scott Horton.
Satisfaction is guaranteed at WholeFoodComplete.com.
Hey, all.
Scott Horton here for The Future of Freedom.
The monthly journal of The Future of Freedom Foundation.
Edited by libertarian purist Sheldon Richman, The Future of Freedom brings you the best of our movement.
Featuring articles by Richman, Jacob Hornberger, James Bovard, and many more, The Future of Freedom stands for peace and liberty and against our criminal world empire and Leviathan state.
Subscribe today.
It's just $25 per year for the back pocket size print edition, $15 per year to read it online.
That's The Future of Freedom at fff.org slash subscribe.
Peace and freedom.
Thank you.
Hey, you own a business?
Maybe we should consider advertising on the show.
See if we can make a little bit of money.
My email address is Scott at Scott Horton dot org.
Hey, all.
Scott Horton here for WallStreetWindow.com.
Mike Swanson knows his stuff.
He made a killing running his own hedge fund and always gets out of the stock market before the government generated bubbles pop, which is, by the way, what he's doing right now, selling all the stocks and betting on gold and commodities.
Sign up at WallStreetWindow.com and get real time updates from Mike on all his market moves.
It's hard to know how to protect your savings and earn a good return in an economy like this.
Mike Swanson can help.
Follow along on paper and see for yourself.
WallStreetWindow.com.