Sorry, I'm late.
I had to stop by the Wax Museum again and give the finger to FDR.
We know Al-Qaeda, Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria.
Are we supporting Al-Qaeda in Syria?
It's a proud day for America.
And by God, we've kicked Vietnam syndrome once and for all.
Thank you very, very much.
I say it, I say it again, you've been had.
You've been took.
You've been hoodwinked.
These witnesses are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else accepts as fact.
He came, he saw us, he died.
But we ain't killing they army, but we killing them.
We be on CNN like Say Our Name been saying, say it three times.
The meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world.
Then there's going to be an invasion.
All right, you guys.
Introducing Dan McKnight.
He was a sergeant in the Afghan war.
And he wrote this article for the Idaho State Journal a couple of weeks ago.
Bring Our Troops Home movement growing.
And he also, I think you're the founder of bringourtroopshome.us, correct?
That's correct.
All right, great.
Welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Good, Scott.
Thanks for having me.
Very happy to have you here.
And by the way, if you search Dan McKnight in your Google News there, you'll find some really good articles about him, too.
And, you know, his effort to create this new anti-war group.
So I guess, first of all, tell us about your time in Afghanistan and your U.S. Army, correct?
Correct.
I was Marine Corps Reserve for three years and then the Army active duty for three years and then the National Guard for 10 years.
But, yeah, so my time in Afghanistan was in 2005 to 2007.
We went there as an Idaho Guard contingency as part of the 10th Mountain Division.
And while we were there, nobody really wanted to claim control of us.
And as guardsmen, we were kind of left on an island by ourselves.
And we were having a really hard time with the supply system in Afghanistan, getting vital supplies and out of frustration.
And after I'd used all the chain of command options that we had, I finally was at my wits end.
And I grabbed a sat phone and climbed to the top of a mountain in the Peshawar River Valley, which is right by the Korengal Valley, and climbed to the top of the hill.
And a friend of mine back home had the number of our governor, who at the time was Governor Jim Risch.
And from a mountaintop on a satellite phone in Afghanistan, I called the governor directly and said, Governor, you're the commander in chief of the Idaho National Guard and you've got troops that need your help.
And I told him what was going on and he had just become the interim governor.
He'd been a governor for just a few weeks and he goes, Dan, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what I can do, but I'm going to do something.
And within 48 hours, I got a message from my very angry chain of command saying that our supplies were on the way and that Governor Risch had come through for us.
And so I always held him up in kind of on a pedestal.
And I viewed him as a very patriotic, pro-military American and a man of his word.
And so in January, with the change of leadership in the Senate, he became the chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, basically becoming the second or third most powerful man in America when it comes to foreign policy.
And I thought, hey, here's a time for a guy from the state of Idaho to maybe have a chance to effect some change.
We've got a demonstrably strong commander in chief who wants to end the wars.
I've got a senator from the small state of Idaho who's disproportionately powerful.
And so I asked him at a public event, I questioned him publicly, under what circumstances would it take for him to support a withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan and Yemen and Syria and Iraq, and to follow the Constitution and reclaim his authority under Article 1, Section 8, to declare war before committing troops?
And he answered and said, I'm with you, Dan.
I'm done nation building.
We cannot be the world's policemen and we can't force democracy on a place that doesn't want it.
And I thought at that point my job was done.
I thought my senator was going to carry the ball from that point forward.
But then he went back to Washington and did what swamp creatures do and voted three times in the next 90 days to extend America's presence in the Middle East indefinitely, and specifically in Yemen and Afghanistan.
And out of those votes, we started BringOurTroopsHome.us in Idaho.
And our purpose is to urge all elected leaders to reclaim their authority under the Constitution, to expire the AUMF that's been in place for 18 years, and to never send our troops into war without properly authorizing it from Congress.
And now we've spread to Wyoming, West Virginia, Michigan, Ohio, Texas, Utah, Montana.
We're 22 states we're actively working in, and it started in this office here in Marina, Idaho.
Yeah, that's great.
So, well, back to the movement in a second, but on the senator, have you spoken to him since then?
I have.
I've had a couple conversations with him.
And I believe Senator Risch, in his heart of hearts, knows that bringing our troops home and ending the forever wars is the right thing to do.
It just shows you that even in the light of what's right, that the amount of pressure that comes from the war caucus and the war hawks in Washington, D.C., and the industrial complex, the military industrial complex, the amount of money that's spent and the influence that it wields, causes even people with a sense of right and wrong to maybe vote incorrectly and maybe not even understand the issue.
And this week, we actually saw finally, finally, for the first time in 30 years, we're bringing troops home from a war in the Middle East.
That's never happened before in the last 30 years.
And President Trump has shown that strength in leadership.
And it's up to us to create a groundswell of grassroots support to push our elected leaders to support the president in this mission of bringing the troops home.
Yeah, well, I mean, I got to tell you, as you just said, you know, in your summary of the forces that you're up against with the military industrial complex, money involved, and all of that, that's really the key to it all, of course.
And it is very hard to overcome.
But if there is one force in America that could potentially be more powerful than that, it's veterans against the wars.
And not just, you know, Vietnam era veterans who are sort of looked at like born on the Fourth of July, grew their hair out and moved to the left and all this kind of stuff.
I mean, it's got to be guys like you who are veterans of the 21st century terror wars who talk like you.
Constitution, no world police, no nation building.
And then you named the states where your organization is already thriving and they're all red states.
Right.
And then the idea, I guess here is that it's not necessarily true, but the presumption is that the liberals don't want to fight anyway.
The left side of American politics isn't really interested in fighting.
There's the powerful and connected who want war.
And then there's the mass rank and file of Republican voters with their macho, tough guy, let's kick butt thing.
And you are the antidote to that.
If you can be, you know, and lead this movement as you're leading, showing that to be conservative is to be anti-war, you know, and to not make this an exception to a right wing point of view, but make this absolutely an ingrained part of a right wing point of view that to preserve the Constitution, we must abandon the empire.
And for that matter, you say, Senator, you're so loyal to the soldiers.
Well, I've been there and back.
I'm speaking for you, not me.
I've been there and back.
And I'm telling you, you're betraying these young men by continuing to send them there.
That is the only message.
That is the only narrative that is ever going to end this war is when it's understood that led by the veterans, the mass right wing rank and file doesn't want to fight anymore.
Correct.
Correct.
And I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, Smithsonian and Stars and Stripes magazine did a poll of veterans and active military recently.
And 84% of all military members, their families and veterans have said that the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen and Syria have gone on for too long and that they weren't worth fighting.
Not that it was time to come home, but that they weren't worth fighting.
84% is a pretty solid majority when you're considering the one and a half million active duty service members.
I would almost say that it probably would be a little bit higher if education was involved in that question.
Instead of asking the question, having an education period first and then re-asking it, I think it would be close to 100%.
Most military men and women that have fought have seen the atrocities and the ugliness of war.
And there's no way you can go to war and be pro-war.
And I don't think many Americans are pro-war.
They just don't understand the issue at hand.
They say it's immoral for us to leave.
And especially today, they're talking about us being immoral to leave Syria, that we're abandoning the Kurds, that it's a betrayal to them.
They fought alongside of us.
We should be there to support them.
Well, we used to have a policy in this country that we wouldn't enter these entangled alliances.
We had a great senator from the state of Idaho, William Borah, post-World War I, that said he fought the Treaty of Versailles and kept us out of the League of Nations.
He gave an empowered speech on the Senate floor that basically said, if we enter these entangled alliances, we'll be fighting these endless wars forever on somebody else's behalf.
Well, President Trump has said, we're not doing that anymore.
We are leaving Syria, and the swamp creatures are upset about it.
They're flying onto the news channels as fast as they can get in front of the cameras.
Mitch McConnell and Nikki Haley and Lindsey Graham and the entire Democratic Party, including Hillary Clinton, they're saying that we need to be there.
But you know what?
Our ally, our entangled alliance right now is to NATO, and Turkey is a NATO ally, not the Kurds.
The Kurds are not a NATO ally.
They were paid with military equipment and money to fight alongside of us, and that was the agreement we had with them.
Right now, President Trump has put the Middle East, especially those involved in Syria, in checkmate.
By withdrawing our troops and getting out of that endless war, every major player in the Syrian conflict is now checked.
Nobody can make a move without Russia, without Syria, without Iran, without Lebanon.
They're all checked.
If one person makes a move, the other one will correct it.
It just shows that we absolutely can be leaders in this anti-war movement, and bringing the troops home is just the start of it.
I'm humbled by what the president has done in the last two days.
Very unpopular.
No one in his party is supporting him, except for maybe Rand Paul.
Barbara Lee from the Democratic Party, I think, is supporting him on this, but everybody else is kind of running away from him.
It's comforting to see a demonstrably strong president when it comes to true American foreign policy.
It's kind of buttressed our efforts, and I support it.
Back to what you said about the brink-and-file of the military, the 84% of soldiers that support this.
I've had conversations with two high-ranking generals.
Charles Krulak, who was the former commandant of the Marine Corps when I was in the Marines in the 90s, is very in line with us on this position.
His cause in life right now is human trafficking and ending the forever war.
He has said recently that to show great true courage would be to leave Afghanistan right now.
Then General Don Bulldog, who was the commander for Special Forces Operations Africa, 10 tours in Afghanistan.
66 months he spent there, has now come out and said that he is absolutely for ending the war now and bringing the troops home, regardless of the outcome.
I think tides are turning.
You're starting to see public sentiment.
Radio shows like your own.
National media has caught on the message, and I think the time is right.
I totally agree with you about so much of what you said there.
It seems like in Syria, having the Turks invade there is pretty ugly, and there is a better alternative, which is for America to encourage the Kurds to strike a deal with Assad and get Assad's guys in there to serve as the safe zone, so that the Turks don't feel like they have this safe haven for the PKK on the Syrian side of the line.
That could be a little better, but overall, in the scheme of things, you're right.
Essentially, the balance of power has been achieved, and if America leaves, not too much is going to change on the ground there, as far as that goes.
In other words, when the president says, we defeated the Islamic State, no question about it.
There is no such thing anymore.
It's now Western Iraq and Eastern Syria, again, full stop.
No way to argue that.
But in Afghanistan, like you say, quoting Krulak there, it's going to take courage to leave Afghanistan, because everything is going to fall apart.
The government that we have supported there this whole time is going to fall, and I don't know if the Taliban are going to try to take over the entire country or not, but they just might, and it might be bloody as hell.
And you've still got Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who's sitting in the middle of Kabul right now with 50,000 militia guys, and God knows what is going to happen there.
And you think the media is being hard on Trump for leaving Syria now.
If he tries to leave Afghanistan, there is going to be plenty of chaos there for them to blame on the withdrawal.
Well, like yourself to be able to say, yeah, well, apparently we were unable, the mission was a bad mission.
We were unable to build a government that could stand after all this time.
But that certainly is much more of our position on the defensive compared to the narrative, which is everything was fine when we still had 10,000 troops there.
And now if we pull them out, that's what's causing the problem.
Right.
Well, Scott, we've been as low as 7,000 and as high as 140,000 troops and contractors, and the situation's never changed.
In fact, it's progressively gotten worse over time.
And I read in your book Fool's Errand, which, by the way, is a masterpiece.
I highly recommend to everybody that all the documented sources in there, we're creating our own enemy there.
If we think about what we would do here in America in the name of Christianity or freedom or democracy to repel an invasion of military bases within our own country, what would we do as a citizenry here?
Would we join the fight as militiamen, as freedom fighters, as insurgents to defend our country?
I'm sure that we would, and we would consider it righteous and just.
Well, we're there in a place that doesn't want us not doing any military mission specifically.
We're trying to keep the peace and we're trying to build the nation and do things that the military is not really designed to do.
And their populace is rising up and we're making an Afghani more an Afghani than they were before.
Before we got there, they didn't identify as Afghanistan citizens.
They identified as tribal members, Sunnis and Shiites and Pashtun.
And so we're creating a national identity for them by being there.
We're giving them something to rally around.
And the numbers of the insurgents that we're fighting is growing exponentially every day.
We kill one, 10 more join.
And so being there is not the answer at this point.
So it is going to take some courage to leave.
It is going to create a mess.
That region has been a mess since the beginning of time.
There's nothing that we can do to change that.
And we can use a big shovel and keep throwing democracy and freedom and money at them.
And I don't think it's going to change one thing about their culture.
Yeah.
Hang on just one second.
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Well now, I mean, I'm sure this is the criticism that you get all the time though, right?
What about security?
I mean, jeez, you don't want to really surrender the whole field, whether Afghanistan or anywhere else in the Middle East to the terrorists who are going to come and get us.
They're going to claim they won the war and we lost and they're going to attack us over and over again and what about that?
That's a great question and our military is a quick strike military.
We can strike anywhere in the world in a very short period of time from our established domestic bases and our allied bases throughout the world.
We have a carrier group in the Persian Gulf at all times.
We can strike at any moment, anywhere and we showed that after 9-11.
We had troops on the ground just days after the attacks in New York City and in Virginia and Pennsylvania.
Our presence there, I think, creates more problems than it actually helps.
A good friend of mine that I served with, Sergeant First Class James Cronk, he wrote a piece that was just, it's probably going to be published this week in Idaho about the waste in Afghanistan and how we would go there to these places that had former Soviet buildings, these big warehouses and office structures and command posts that were there left over after the Afghanistan invasion and they sat empty, unused by anybody.
No villagers, the Taliban, nobody used them and we would always ask the locals why those buildings sat empty and they always said the same thing.
Those aren't Afghani buildings, those are Russian buildings.
If we use them, our enemies will kill us.
We'll be looked upon as traitors to our people and so all these things that we're building, we're building schools and water treatment facilities and roads and hospitals and then we turn them over to them and then they instantly turn them over to the local warlords who in turn turn them over to the Taliban.
Our structures that we're building, the nation building that we're doing, the infrastructure, it's not wanted there.
They don't want it.
They don't want it.
It's not their culture.
We can't force Western ideas on them.
So it's time for us just to simply wash our hands of this horrible, bloody and mistake-ridden mission and bring them home.
It's going to create a vacuum, it is, but the world stage is going to need to step up and patrol and don't leave that burden on the United States.
We've been the world's policemen for far too long.
All right, now I don't want to offend anybody or hurt anybody's feelings, but I do think that Liz Cheney has less charisma than her father.
But I wonder, in your neck of the woods up there, pardon me for lumping Idaho in with Wyoming and other states like that up there.
Texas is big enough.
It's a region, so yeah.
I wonder, just listening to the radio and talking with the people, what's the average Republican's take on Liz Cheney?
Are they sick and tired of the Cheneys?
They see her as a representation of the wars and sure wish someone else would push her out of the way.
Or are they really still like that kind of thing just fine overall or what?
I think you'd probably recognize this.
The Republican Party has two factions, right?
It has the liberty-minded folks that are libertarian with a small L and Republican conservatives.
And I think that they're more in line with the modern thinking of the libertarian and Republican mindset.
And then there's the old, I call them the blue hares, that anything with an R after their name is who they're going to support.
And I think that's where Cheney gets her support from is from the people that remember in the early 2000s after the September 11th attacks, the famous line, either you're with us or you're with the terrorists.
And those people, I think, support everything we do in the war.
They support the war hawk mentality and they support Liz Cheney.
I know Liz Cheney is a carpetbagger.
Wyoming is not her home.
She went there to run, and she's made no secret that she wants to be the Speaker of the House in a bad way.
And we've got a couple people that work with us on the Wyoming Bring Our Troops Home movement.
The state majority whip, Tyler Lindholm, who wrote a piece asking Liz Cheney to stop carping at the president of the United States and attacking his foreign policy and to get in line with modern Republican thinking.
And she responded in kind and kind of attacked Tyler.
And then in response to that, Rand Paul tweeted, and it started a little bit of a Twitter battle between Rand Paul and Liz Cheney.
And it was national news for a couple of days.
I think most Republicans are not Liz Cheney fans.
They're fans of the R more than they are of the person.
And we've got to get past that mindset.
But here in the Northwest, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming especially, we're very independent, liberty minded.
We're patriots.
We love our country.
But we hold the Constitution in such high regard that we're not going to tolerate having those type of lip service politicians who say one thing at home and then go to Washington and do just the opposite.
And it was a little bit of a relief for me to know that my senator, Jim Risch, who I'm currently trying to influence, is more in line with where Rand Paul was on this Twitter fight than was where Liz Cheney is.
So up here, we're not going to tolerate her.
I think we're going to see some changes in Wyoming.
Is anybody trying to stop her right now?
No one's officially, I don't think, officially announced.
But we do know that there is a ground game being built.
And more to come on that soon.
I think there's enough support in Wyoming that we're going to make Liz Cheney very uncomfortable in her next election, whether she runs for Senate or as another term in the House.
She wants to be Speaker of the House.
She's made no secrets about that.
But that lure of being a senator is pretty strong.
So we're watching her, see what she does.
And we do have a ground game prepared to fight Liz Cheney because we think she's just dead wrong on this issue.
I wish someone would give her a cushy job at a gas company in Ukraine or something and get her out of the Congress altogether.
She could talk to the Vice President Joe Biden about that.
He might be able to hook her up.
Guaranteed.
All right.
Now, so tell me everything that you have to say about BringOurTroopsHome.us and the members of it and everything.
Absolutely.
Sure.
BringOurTroopsHome.us or Wyoming or W-Y BringOurTroopsHome.com or W-V for West Virginia, W-V BringOurTroopsHome.com are three domains that we have set up right now.
There's a petition there you can log in and sign expressing your support.
There's all kinds of handouts and material that you can find there.
We've got a lot of publicity and a lot of things have been published in the press.
And there's a lot of information you can find there.
And it's all veteran led?
It's all veteran led, 100 percent.
Tyler Lindholm in Wyoming is a Navy veteran.
Delegate Pat McGeehan in West Virginia was an Air Force intelligence officer.
And then myself, just a lowly non-commissioned officer in the Idaho Army National Guard.
And those are the three regional leaders that we have.
And together, we're working this year to put forth some legislation at the state level.
We believe that we can affect change at the state level probably better than we can at the national level.
And we're proposing legislation called Defend the Guard.
And we're asking states to pass a law that says that the National Guard troops will not deploy to combat situations without a formal declaration of war from Congress.
And that move at the state level will force Congress to reclaim their authority under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gives them, and only them, the power to declare war.
So if they want to abdicate their authority to the executive branch, then they can go to war without the National Guard troops.
If they want to do it properly and have the support from the states, then do it the right way.
And we're having a big event in Washington, D.C. on November 12th and 13th.
We've got speakers lined up, including a former general, commander of special forces operations in Africa, who had 10 tours in Afghanistan.
Sixty-six months he spent at war.
He's going to be our keynote speaker.
That's General Don Boldock out of New Hampshire.
And we're bringing 100 veterans and state lawmakers from around the country with us.
And we're going to go to Washington, and we are going to kick in some doors and ask that our elected leaders sit down and speak to the veterans and hear our stories and see the price of war, see what it's done to us physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, and make them answer to us.
And that rally, like I said, is November 12th and 13th, and you can find out more about that on the website soon.
I don't think it's posted yet, but our contact information is on the website.
If you'd like to be a part of that, just log in, and we'll get you keyed up.
And you guys have a Facebook page, too, that people can join?
Yeah, I think on Facebook you just have to search Bring Our Troops Home, and you'll find Idaho, Wyoming, and West Virginia, and I think there's a half a dozen other ones that are up.
And we're working on a national presence right now.
We're in the ninth month of our efforts, and so we're growing as fast as one little guy in Idaho and one in Wyoming and one in West Virginia can push it.
But we're growing fast, and we're hoping to be in 50 states and a national force by the end of the year.
We're hoping this event in D.C. is going to take us to the next level.
Well, I'll tell you, again, back to just the overall narrative about where is the right on the interventions these days, if you could get even a handful of red state legislatures, Republican state legislatures, to pass a law like this, and of course put them in direct conflict with the current federal laws over the state guard and all of that kind of thing, create a real controversy.
It seems like there's a real chance to create a real controversy there.
And then, you know, even if the TV never really highlights this aspect of it, it's pretty hard to ignore.
We're talking about all red states here that are doing this.
And that becomes a very important part of the narrative there for the overall effort.
And then, you know, there's this other group, Concerned Veterans of America, that I think has some Koch money behind them, and they're also doing a sort of attack from the right kind of a point of view here as well.
And I think, not to pick on the liberals and the left wingers, because Lord knows they do good work, but, you know, the Veterans for Peace guys, you know, I mean, they have chapters all over this country, and they're very dedicated people, but so many of them come from the Vietnam War era, and they do have that kind of new left kind of hippie baggage with them.
And it's not Veterans Against the War, it's Veterans for Peace, which sounds not even hopeful and weak to a right winger.
You know, even though supposedly Jesus was the Prince of Peace and all of that, and American conservatives mostly consider themselves Christians, but anyway, it seems naive and weak and feminine and liberal to be for peace and to have a dove on their thing.
And I guess they're good for keeping the left anti-war, that's fine, but in terms of convincing the right, they're no good at all.
To convince the right, you need people who are more right wing than the right wing.
You want to talk about saving the Constitution?
Let's talk about it for real.
It ain't democracy, it's empire that threatens the U.S. Constitution more than any other thing.
And look at the fight that you're having over the status of the guard units.
Are these guys here to protect us during floods, or are they here to occupy, you know, Kandahar City?
I mean, this is crazy.
Correct, it is.
It's a strange paradigm we find ourselves in.
But you're right, the left, they've done their job when it comes to opposing the war.
All 17 or 19 or however many there are Democratic presidential candidates are openly against the war.
However, they've all come out to bash President Trump about his withdrawal from Syria.
But the left's done their part.
It's time for the right to take a chest-thumping position.
Yes, we're going to go to war.
We're going to do it the right way.
And when we go, get out of our way and let us kick some ass, and then let us come home.
That's our message.
We're not anti-war.
It's a tough message.
Nobody wants to go to war.
But if it becomes necessary, follow the Constitution, give us proper authorization, and then get out of the way.
Let the military go, complete the mission, and then come home.
And if we do that, I think everybody on both sides of the aisle would come together and agree that that's kind of the right position to be in.
Yeah, well, and it goes back to what you're saying about, well, the question is, what the mission is.
Whether it's defeating the state that is our enemy that we're fighting, and presumably some country ever attacks us or something like that.
Or whether it's, actually, we're the aggressors.
We're the ones invading a country and overthrowing the government and trying to build a new one there.
And all of these other things.
There's no amount of force that gets that done, as we've seen in Iraq and in Libya and in Afghanistan as well, you know?
Correct.
Correct.
Yeah, but anyway, so man, I just think it's such great work that you're doing and the most important work.
And I know I have a lot of veterans in this audience.
Well, I don't know how many, but quite a few anyway, who listen to this show.
And so, you know, I hope that they will maybe take the opportunity to, you know, join up the group and see what they can do to support it.
Find a place to fit in here, you know, I think.
We're always looking for leaders.
Yeah.
Veterans, you know, right-leaning veterans against the wars is the most important message.
In fact, there's nothing else that we have going for us in this country against the empire.
That's it.
And this is the most important narrative of all to drive home.
And so it seems like such a huge opportunity and already you guys are doing such great work.
So I sure hope some listeners will get involved, too.
Thanks, Scott.
I hope anybody can reach out that would like to organize a chapter in their state or meet us in D.C.
But thanks for having me on, Scott.
I really, truly appreciate it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Love having you on and hope we can talk soon.
You bet.
Thanks, Scott.
All right, you guys, that is Dan McKnight.
It's bringourtroopshome.us.
And put Dan McKnight in your Google News there.
You'll find a lot of great news articles, stuff that he wrote and news articles about him that have come out lately.
And especially for you vets, sign up.
All right, y'all, thanks.
Find me at libertarianinstitute.org, at scotthorton.org, antiwar.com and reddit.com slash scotthortonshow.
Oh, yeah, and read my book, Fool's Errand, Timed and the War in Afghanistan, at foolserrand.us.
