09/11/14 – Philip Giraldi – The Scott Horton Show

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All right.
Uh, Phil Giraldi, he's a former CIA guy and then also is the executive director of the council for the national interest at council for the national interest.org and he writes for the American conservative and owns.com.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm fine, Scott.
How are you?
I'm doing all right.
So they never can keep track of whether my guests are on Skype or on the phone or which button is which.
But anyway, these things happen frequently.
Uh, so did you see Obama's big speech last night?
No, I read about practice.
Yeah, of course I did.
I, I, I don't, you know, I would have been throwing things at the television set if I had watched it.
So I decided just to read it, read the text afterwards and um, that was enough.
All right.
Well, so what'd you think?
Uh, you know, he said the other day last week he didn't have a strategy, but they've been working really hard on it and now they've got one.
So well, I mean the thing that disturbs me about it and I haven't seen much commentary on it in the media this morning, uh, even in the places where I would have expected to see something is that he basically has declared war on Syria, a country with which we are not at war.
And essentially he's doing it without the consent of Congress and intends to keep doing it as long as it takes to accomplish whatever he thinks has to be accomplished.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
So let's go ahead and stick with that issue for a minute.
Obviously it's a huge one.
So I guess, uh, as our previous guest, uh, was explaining because of Israel and because of Saudi Arabia, uh, they just will not tolerate America tilting back to Assad like they did during Clinton and Bush jr years, uh, having him torture and kill Al Qaeda guys for us.
And so they're stuck to this third way position where supposedly they're going to build up this army of moderates that, you know, I guess the FSA, however moderate or not, um, to be this third force that's supposed to be able to take on Nusra ISIS and Assad, uh, because they just can't, uh, tilt back to Assad.
And yet meanwhile, you know, Patrick Coburn was reporting that, uh, he had sources telling him that the U S was passing intelligence to Assad through the Germans to help him target ISIS because of course he's the one with the state army around there who could actually hurt them.
Uh, but so, you know, what a mess makes sense of this for me.
Well, I mean, you can't make sense of it.
That's why I said, I mean, because, you know, apart from arming these clowns and didn't he say a couple months ago that the, uh, the whole concept of, of the, the moderate, uh, uh, revolutionaries in, in Syria was, it was basically a fraud.
Yeah, a fantasy was his term.
So yeah, even worse than a fraud.
So he said that, and now all of a sudden he's going to be arming them or is he going to find them?
Uh, and, and then of course the corollary to all this, why I say he's declared war on Syria is because we're going to be bombing in Syria.
And he said that we're going to be, uh, you know, using, uh, our planes and our bombs and everything to attack, uh, allegedly terrorist targets in Syria.
But you know, it's Syrian sovereign territory.
We're not at war with them and, and you know, it's just, these things get crazier and crazier and you just kind of, you try to figure out what, what are these people thinking of?
And now we have an open commitment to destroy this terrorist group.
That's the word he's using.
And we're going to, we're basically going to be pulling together all these alleged allies.
It's going to be a repeat of Iraq with the coalition of the willing.
Is it, uh, is, is Turkey going to allow us to use bases to bomb Syria is if that's not the case, where are we going to put our airplanes?
If they fly them up from the Persian Gulf, it's going to take it, you know, by the time they get there, they have to turn around and come back.
You see what I'm saying?
It's just that this whole thing is so stupid that you have to wonder if the Marx brothers actually are, are running the White House.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
I think there was even an article like that at UNS where it was from a Marxist perspective, but he meant, uh, I forget which Marx brother it was.
Who are you going to believe?
Me or your own lying eyes?
Yeah, with Chico.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There you go.
Uh, so, uh, yeah, well now, so I mean the thing is, I guess if they're passing intelligence to Assad, can we assume then that there really has been a turn in the policy and that they know that Assad is the only game in town on this and now they have to switch back to him and that they will have at least his covert permission to bomb in a Pakistan model kind of a way.
It seems like that's what they're looking at.
Although, you know, they told the AP, oh yeah, no, but we hate Assad so much that we're considering bombing regime targets at the same time to make sure that we don't accidentally give Assad the advantage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I saw that.
Let me, when you talk about idiotic comments, I mean, that's gotta be number one.
The, uh, I don't know if they've cut any deals with Assad.
I think that, uh, uh, it would be dangerous for them to do that because obviously they've made such strong statements against any cooperation with them.
That's a, I suspect that if, if he did that, if the administration did that and it came out, the, the Republicans would run with that all the way to getting, you know, elected in 2016.
Uh, I, I can't see that he cut that kind of deal.
He might be cutting a deal through an intermediary like the Germans, uh, if that's possible.
But at the same time, I think that, uh, what we're seeing here is a total disconnect to the policy.
And I think you and I have talked about this before, cause you look at, you know, the whole game going back and forth on who the U S is supporting in Syria and Iraq has been senseless right from the beginning.
Yeah, no, I mean, it seems like, uh, well, and people say this all the time and there's, and there's good reason to believe it, I guess a lot of times, or you could certainly see why people believe that the policy must be a grand design, a perfect plot to create a perfect storm because just look how horrible this is.
You couldn't have had, uh, the worst war propagandists come up with the current situation, uh, if they had to, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you had tried to engineer this situation as screwed up as this, you wouldn't be able to do it.
And, uh, but you know, it just, it just seems a lot like a bad decision after bad decision after bad decision.
And one of the interesting things about this is of course, this focus on ISIS means that, you know, other things that are getting screwed up are, are being kind of ignored.
They're falling out of the news.
Like I was, I was doing some updating on Ukraine and everything this morning and that situation, which is far more dangerous in terms of the, of the United States interest, uh, is just kind of flying under the screen right now in terms of, uh, how their, uh, the Hagel a few days ago said that, oh yeah, we're going to be bringing Georgia into NATO and, uh, we're going to accelerate the process.
And uh, and um, and what's her face, uh, Newland, Victoria Newland, uh, has indicated that we're, uh, we're supporting the Moldova against the Russians and we're going to be doing, we're going to be sending weapons to the Ukrainians and you know, all this stuff is crazy.
It's crazy stuff.
And, uh, unfortunately right now, because everybody's talking about ISIS, it's just kind of going along under its own power.
And when you say Moldova, that's, and, and you know, I don't know, we can get back to Iraq in a minute, but when you say Moldova, that's where you have the Trans-Dniester little strip of land next to the river there, where they're loyal to Russia first.
And there's been the worry that they would go back under Russian sovereignty somehow.
Yeah.
That's right.
And you're saying Newland is saying over our dead body.
And Newland, in fact, in her, if you look, if you look at her testimony, uh, before Senate committee back a couple months ago, and, and what she referred, she was referring to Moldova and Georgia as frontline states, you know, these are frontline states against Russia.
And obviously she is designating what the frontline is.
The frontline is where we are confronting Russia.
And it, this is scary kind of language apart from anything else in terms of how your, your head is working to, to rationalize what's going on in the place.
And it just, uh, I have, I'm just, you know, I'm at a total loss to, to, to determine what the logic of this process is, where are, where are the U.S. interests that are being, that are being served in this?
Yeah.
Well, and boy, I don't know who allowed, uh, how in the world, I guess maybe it was a Hillary thing.
How Victoria Nuland even got that job, Obama?
Well, no, I guess Obama's a big fan of Robert Kagan, right?
He was carrying around his book back when he was running for reelection.
Nevermind the post-American world.
It's time to reinstate the empire with brand new vigor.
So I guess it all makes sense there.
All right.
Uh, hold the line.
We'll be right back y'all with Phil Giraldi from unz.com and the American conservative magazine.
Hey, I'll Scott Horton here.
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All right, you guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
I'm here with Phil Giraldi.
He writes for the American conservative magazine and unz.com.
And we're talking about, uh, Obama's newest declaration of war against the Islamic state.
And of course, uh, the proxy war that is right now at ceasefire in Ukraine and the consequences.
I actually had missed it.
There's so much going on, Phil.
I did not realize that Chuck Hagel had said that, yes, we are moving forward again on bringing Georgia into NATO.
I knew that, I guess, last I heard, they had sort of called that off for Ukraine for now, even though, like you said, they still want to give them weapons.
And then they even had announced some training exercises they want to do in Ukraine, uh, right in the middle of a war or right after one.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, he said, he said in light of the, you know, the, uh, uh, Russia's blatant aggression, uh, that, uh, the, uh, they would be moving quickly to expand NATO by including Georgia.
I mean, this is just, this is just insane talk.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I was talking with Jack Matlock, the second to last ambassador to the Soviet Union on the show last week.
And I was saying, well, isn't it the case?
Cause he was just livid.
I mean, he was out of his mind about this.
And, uh, I says, well, you know, the case is that if we bring these countries into NATO, then that means, Hey, they're protected by the American empire.
Now they're under our umbrella and Russia can never do anything about it again.
It's peace.
It's, you know, global hegemony, uh, by the American empire is what prevents these conflicts from breaking out.
And well, he, he seemed to think that you got it wrong.
Ukraine is a red line.
They've said it 10,000 times and they'll say it again.
And they'll say it with nukes if they have to, I guess.
Yeah.
Well, that's depressing.
Yeah.
But I don't know, I guess at the Georgetown cocktail party circuit or whatever, that's where these policies are decided.
Right.
And all cool people there know that this is what to do.
Is that what it comes down to or what is this?
I guess that's what it is.
I think there is, I think you and I have discussed in the past that there, there clearly is a Washington elite consensus on foreign policy and it has nothing to do with the political parties necessarily, although it incorporates elements in them and has a lot more to do with this whole sense of what we are as a country and what our imperatives and everything are.
And this is where a lot of this dangerous nonsense comes out of.
Uh, these people, as you point out, are cocktail party circuit, uh, you know, experts on everything.
And as a result, they, uh, they basically, uh, see things in terms of, uh, their own privilege in terms of their own, uh, uh, hegemony in terms of, uh, the, our political system.
And it's dangerous.
I mean, it's beyond dangerous since it's, if, if they really want to play games with Russia, uh, they're asking for trouble and, uh, and we don't need it.
There is no reason for any of this.
Yeah.
Well, you know, Robert Perry had a theory that a big part of what's going on in Ukraine and why Victoria Newlin at all are so, uh, interested in provoking a crisis there was to try to drive a wedge between Obama and Putin who've been getting along on which issues Iran and Syria and, and, you know, Israel's, uh, uh, biggest priorities.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it could be, I mean, certainly the, you know, uh, Obama, who is not to whatever else you want to accuse him of.
He's not a dumb guy and unlike his predecessor and, and, uh, he really must understand these issues.
But the fact is he's also a political animal and he's, he's obviously under pressure from a lot of different constituencies and in my judgment and what he's not doing, he's not showing any leadership and all he does is he's doing sort of an ad hoc performance in responding to various pressure groups.
And, uh, yeah, sure.
There are a lot of people out there who have really no interest in, in, uh, in peace for this country or, or, uh, a lack of involvement in other people, other people's quarrels.
It seems that, uh, I was just reading a review by Hillary Clinton of all people of, uh, Kissinger's new book and, uh, she basically buys whole, whole the argument that, uh, the United States has a leadership role to give, to provide justice and freedom in the world.
I mean, this is ridiculous.
Uh, nobody outside the beltway actually thinks the United States has anything to do with justice and liberty.
Yeah.
Well, in fact, if anything, it's a great benefit that it's Henry Kissinger writing that because we all know he doesn't give a damn about justice or liberty.
He's Henry Kissinger for crying out loud.
He's the poster boy for letting little kids bleed.
So, uh, you know, we know what he means by that is hegemony dressed up in this PR nonsense.
Yeah, exactly.
That's exactly what it is.
And in fact, I'm writing an article on him basically saying that Hillary doesn't know the difference between, uh, you know, uh, leadership and hegemony or leadership and dominance because that's the way she thinks and, and we need to change in the way they think.
Yeah.
Well now, so back to the, the, what I think is just an insane policy.
I mean, we really talked about the Syria half of the insanity here of the way that they're going back to war with ISIS now, but the other part of it is they've replaced Maliki with a carbon copy from the same party.
Roy Gutman says this guy's a little bit more sophisticated and maybe not as partisan as Maliki, but he's from the Dawa party and uh, and it seems like, um, even just throwing in with the Iraqi government at all at this point is aligned with Iran to a degree, uh, even beyond what Bush did, uh, because Bush was de facto fighting for Iran, but the Iranians weren't really there when they were there.
They were mostly fighting against America when they were like helping solder fight the Americans kind of thing.
But now we're going to outright be their air force.
And uh, that seems like it's going to really blow up right in our face.
I even saw, I forget if you and I talked about this before, but I saw Michael Shoyer who we all know doesn't give a damn about what Israel wants, uh, saying that, no, no, no, we still shouldn't back Assad because backing Assad only just like backing Iran or even backing the Baghdad government in this situation puts us on the side of the Shiites in this sectarian war that we got started, but it just makes matters that much worse no matter which side we take in this thing.
Um, and so I wonder what you think about that.
Well I don't know.
I don't think, uh, the problem is, I think it's jargon here when it's not a question of who we're backing.
I think it's a question of, of, of playing off various interests in a way that you're not seen as adversarial, uh, because the fact is if you want to crush ISIS, it's, it's not a problem.
Uh, ISIS has a bunch of neighbors who would like to get rid of it and you basically have to, you know, signal to them that, Hey, we support, uh, you know, your armed forces and going after these people and so on and so forth.
We're not going to get involved, but at the same time we support what you're doing and you leave it there.
I mean, if you take all the armed forces in Syria, uh, Iraq, Turkey, uh, and Iran put them together, they outnumber the ISIS people by about 500 to one.
So, yeah, it's, it's not really a, an insurmountable problem.
Uh, it seems like it's one that we don't even really need to be involved in at all.
If all of these groups hate ISIS so much, then exactly.
So we don't have to be on anyone's side.
I think that's kind of a misperception.
Yeah.
So then if I really have my way and that was it, we just didn't do a damn thing at all and just go ahead and, and let Muqtada al-Sadr deal with it or whoever, the local Sunni tribesmen who are the ones being taken over here, uh, is that really, you think the most workable plan?
Well, I, you know, we're not, we haven't been presented with any workable plan.
That's the problem.
And, and...
So mine is the best one.
Sorry?
So mine is the best one.
Yeah, it probably is because we haven't been presented with anything and, and we, we haven't been presented as the same thing with the situation in Ukraine and everything with any credible intelligence on any of this stuff.
Have you noticed that?
I mean, if there's nothing coming out of any of this, that's, that's actually that you would consider credible.
Yeah.
I mean, all of that is the dog that didn't bark big time, especially about, uh, you know, the shoot down of the plane and, and all of what's been going on in Ukraine this whole time.
All the evidence they've never come up with for all the claims.
That's right.
That's right.
It's been weeks and we've had no evidence on anything that you or I would go to the bank on.
You know, it's just, it's, it's an, it's amazing that they're getting away with all this stuff.
And I expected last night that he would print out some, you know, phony intelligence type stuff.
He didn't even bother.
I mean, you know, it's just that, oh yeah, we have these guys, they're really threatening us this morning.
He had his, um, uh, director of Homeland Security, his poodle on, uh, you know, talking about, oh, well, you know, we have these guys are threatening us and there's some guys trying to get over there to join them or we're watching them closely and we've caught two of them.
You know, we've caught two of them.
Yep.
And this is the, this is the only place where I agree with the, uh, war propaganda a little bit is I'm paranoid about these guys cause I think they do have motive to attack us to, to drag us into the mess cause it's good for their PR.
Um, and also I have absolutely zero faith whatsoever in any national, uh, police or intelligence agencies to keep these guys out of the country if they do try to come here and all it takes, it takes to be heading videos from far away.
Imagine if one guy took one rifle to a mall or whatever in the name of jihad, that'd be, you know, might as well be September 11th, you know, just that crap.
We're out of time.
Uh, thanks Phil.
Talk to you soon.
Okay, Scott.
All right.
Take care.
He's at, uh, the American conservative.
See you tomorrow.
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