08/18/14 – Will Grigg – The Scott Horton Show

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Peace and freedom.
Thank you.
Hey, I'm Scott.
Welcome back to the show.
It's my show, Scott Horton Show.
My wife says I yell all the time.
You don't know how loud you are, she says.
And I think maybe I'm going deaf from these darn headphones.
Turn those things down a little bit.
I got Will Grigg on the line.
I hit the wrong button.
I got Will Grigg on the line.
He's at Pro Libertate, freedominourtime.blogspot.com, freedominourtime.blogspot.com, and he is the author of the book Liberty in Eclipse, which you can also get on audiobook at listenandthinkaudio.com.
I keep forgetting all show long to mention today that I'm attempting to continue my fund drive, and I even have someone offering matching funds if people will, if I can get 10 people to donate 50 bucks, he will match it up to 500 bucks.
So that would be really, really nice if anybody wants to stop by scotthorton.org slash donate and introducing Will Grigg is a good time for me to remember that I need to ask you that because I'd also like to ask you to donate to Will Grigg's efforts too.
He is among the very, very, very best opponents of America's warfare state and militarism and local police abuse that we have.
He's an extremely important part of the libertarian movement.
We absolutely have to keep him writing and commentating on the police state in America, you know, so we can be a little bit more free.
That's why it's freedominourtime.blogspot.com and right there on the right side, there's a button to donate by PayPal to Will Grigg's efforts as well.
So thank you very much for doing that.
I would appreciate it.
And now thank you, Will, for joining us on the show today.
How are you?
Scott, that was a generous and gracious gesture.
Thank you so much.
That means a lot to me.
Well, you deserve a hell of a lot more than I do.
So there you go.
I got to do something.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that assessment, but thank you so much.
All right.
Freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
Making murder reasonable.
How the Ferguson PD will whitewash the killing of Michael E. Brown.
Do tell, sir.
The thing that's happening now, I'm convinced, is that Officer Darren Wilson and the people advising him, which would include at least one police union rep and a lawyer and a number of people within the risk management community there in Ferguson.
We haven't been told specifically, but according to standard protocol, this is what's going to happen, is that they're going to try to present this as a matter of a reasonable officer in an evolving situation confronting an imminent threat to his life.
And under Chapter 563 of the Missouri Revised Statutes, they're going to say that whether or not Brown was a felony suspect, something that Wilson did not know at the time, according to the tardy disclosure and the reluctant disclosure by Chief Jackson, in spite of the fact that he was unarmed and had fled, that he turned to face the officer and in doing so signaled that he was resuming whatever conflict had ensued before he had fled, and that that created within the mind of Officer Wilson the reasonable fear that he confronted an imminent threat to his life, and so he shot him several times in spite of the fact that numerous witnesses, not merely Dorian Johnson, but also a very articulate young woman by the name of Piaget Crenshaw, who had no connection to anything that Brown had been doing earlier, in spite of the fact that witnesses say that his hands were up and he was in a posture of surrender, the case is going to be made that this was a ruse and that he was still an antagonist and that it is an act of justifiable homicide for a police officer in that situation to shoot him several times and kill him, that's the case that's going to be made, and it's going to be subsumed under what's called the reasonable officer standard pursuant to Garner v.
Tennessee, and Garner v.
Tennessee was handed down by the Supreme Court in 1985, it was on the basis of an 11-year-old case involving a fleeing suspect in a burglary, a home robbery, the suspect did not surrender, he did not submit to arrest, he was fleeing from the police officer who shot him, he wasn't armed at the time, was not a teenager, and in that case the Supreme Court said that not every use of force against a fleeing suspect is constitutionally reasonable, if you're dealing with an unarmed suspect who doesn't pose an immediate threat to the life or physical safety of a police officer or somebody else in the public, then that shot is an unconstitutional taking, and what they're going to try to say, given the fact that Missouri has a very low threshold of justification for official homicide by a police officer, what they're going to say is that what matters here is the subjective impression of Officer Wilson, that he had struggled with Brown, and of course there are eyewitnesses that confirm that a struggle of some sort took place, Wilson's trying to say that the first gunshot happened because Brown had reached in and tried to disarm him, if he was shot during that engagement, and I'm not sure whether or not that point's been nailed down flush, if he was shot during that engagement, it's difficult to see how he would have absorbed a bullet wound to his right side when, from what we understand, Officer Wilson was right-handed, and I don't see how the struggle could have evolved in such a way to where he would have been shot at that point while reaching for the officer's gun, but what they're going to try to say is that what matters is the perception of the police officer in this situation, and that even if there's some ambiguity regarding the ballistics, or the autopsy results, or contradictory testimony, in the absence of a dashcam, the Ferguson Police Department has them, it's just not gotten around to installing them, because officer accountability is not one of its institutional priorities.
In the absence of that dashcam video, and despite all the contradictions and ambiguities, the dispositive factors that the officer feared for his life, and on that basis, they're almost certainly, I'm convinced, they're almost certainly going to find that the shooting was justified, and that there will not be criminal charges pressed within that jurisdiction against Officer Wilson.
It's possible that the federal government might get involved in filing a federal civil rights charge against him, and the federal role so far in this whole episode has not been that of dispensing healing balm on a troubled community, this is the same federal government that up-armored the Ferguson PD to ridiculous levels, that provided not only with the weaponry, but the training that unleashed a literal counterinsurgency warfare operation on the streets of Ferguson last week.
And you've got the FBI now supervising the investigation by the Missouri Highway Patrol.
The FBI, of course, are the people who give us such marvels of investigative virtuosity as the Crime Lab, the National Crime Lab, which of course is scandal-ridden and completely unreliable, and they have inflicted themselves on previous situations such as Mount Carmel in Texas and Ruby Ridge here in Idaho, and the result has not really conduced to the welfare of the people involved or to the tranquility of the community that's affected.
So as far as I can tell, what's likely to happen is that you're going to see the official exoneration of Wilson, and you're going to see another eruption in Ferguson, and you're going to see concomitant eruptions most likely in other cities where people have had a surfeit of official impunity and police abuse, and things will probably get nastier from there.
That's in any case the way I see things unfolding in the near future.
Yeah.
All right, well, so there's a lot to go back over there and a lot more to address as well, but it seems to me, Will, that the protest basically is awaiting the indictment.
That's what they're saying, more or less, is we're not going back inside until we hear that this cop has been indicted, and so when he's not indicted, then I don't know what they think they're going to do, and it's already been the case where, I'm sure they weren't listening to me, but they took my exact advice after a three or four day delay there, and they withdrew the local sheriff's department and city police and called in the state highway patrol in slacks and shirts with handguns and pistols and not rifles and not body armor and SWAT gear and all that stuff, but then that hasn't lasted because, well, again, the people aren't going inside until this man is indicted, and so when the cops say, all right, now everybody disperse, and they don't, the cops, all of a sudden, they're just mousetongue, barrel of the gun.
That's all they know.
That's where their power comes from, and so then even the highway patrol now is up armoring itself for taking on these protesters, gassing them, attacking them, and now the governor's called out the National Guard under, I think, the assumption that somehow this is going to calm everything down with or without an indictment of the shooter in this case, and so, you know, I don't know how bad things could get, Will, but it sounds like they're just setting everything up for a disaster here.
Well, one of the things that we have to look for about- All right, now the news is playing.
I'm sorry, Will.
I always do that.
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I'm sorry.urban culture that justifies in some sense extraordinary measures in a limited geographic way to contain the damage.
And I can see where there's already being some pushback on that front.
Just this morning on Fox News you had a panel discussion that involved Bo Diedl from the NYPD and a former police commissioner and then our good friend Bernie Carrick who is supposed to be the first Commissar of the Department of Homeland Security.
And they all agreed that what happened last week in terms of the overwhelming show of force by the militarized riot police and Ferguson was entirely appropriate and their only criticism was for Captain Johnson from the Highway Patrol that he was far too accommodating in actually addressing the grievances of the community there that they were policing.
So there's already a counter, if you will, already something of a counter-revolution underway going on in the institutional right.
So while there's reason for optimism, there's also an awful lot of inertia here and right now there are efforts being made behind the scenes, I suppose, to try to find some way of repackaging this message to where it's perfectly all right to have a limited deployment of police on a wartime footing where they're really needed.
But for the most part if you're living in in rural America or living someplace where Fox News is the most popular cable outlet, you know, that is to say most places where the demographic is old and very white, then it'd just be a horrible thing to see that type of policing happen in those types of communities.
So they're gonna find some way to shoehorn this into the standard who-whom dichotomy, I think.
But in the meantime people are on the sunlit side of 50 or who aren't shackled and in stale ideological categories, whether you're talking about conservatives or progressives or libertarians, we're talking to each other.
And so the future, I think, belongs to that faction.
But in the meantime we've got an awful lot of resistance to overcome on the part of people that are still residually authoritarian in their outlook.
Yeah, well and that's more and more people all the time when you break down the demographics of who's working for the state and on and on like that nowadays.
As Ron Paul always says, how many tens of thousands of even federal agents are armed.
Exactly.
And then multiply that by a million or something for all of the local cops in the land.
That's a hell of a lot of union jobs.
That's a lot of patronage.
That's a lot of...
The very formidable iron triangle you're describing.
Yeah, crony American system politics, right?
That's what Henry Clay called it.
That's what I call it too.
Hey listen, we're way over time and I know you got to go, but thank you so much for your time, Will.
You're great on this stuff, man.
Appreciate it.
God bless you, Scott.
It's great to talk to you.
Good to have you.
That's the great Will Grigg, everybody.
Liberty in Eclipse is the book and the blog is ProLibertate.
FreedomInOurTime.blogspot.com.
This part of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by Audible.com and right now if you go to AudibleTrial.com slash Scott Horton Show, you can get your first audio book for free.
Of course, I'm recommending Michael Swanson's book, The War State.
The Cold War Origins of the Military Industrial Complex and the Power Elite.
Maybe you've already bought The War State in paperback, but you just can't find the time to read it.
Well, now you can listen while you're out marching around.
Get the free audio book of The War State by Michael Swanson, produced by Listen and Think Audio at AudibleTrial.com slash Scott Horton Show.
Oh, John Kerry's Mideast Peace Talks have gone nowhere.
Hey y'all, Scott Horton here for the Council for the National Interest at CouncilForTheNationalInterest.org.
U.S. military and financial support for Israel's permanent occupations of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is immoral and it threatens national security by helping generate terrorist attacks against our country.
And face it, it's bad for Israel, too.
Without our unlimited support, they would have much more incentive to reach a lasting peace with their neighbors.
It's past time for us to make our government stop making matters worse.
Help support CNI at CouncilForTheNationalInterest.org.
Hey y'all, Scott Horton here for WallStreetWindow.com.
Mike Swanson knows his stuff.
He made a killing running his own hedge fund and always gets out of the stock market before the government-generated bubbles pop.
Which is, by the way, what he's doing right now.
Selling all his stocks and betting on gold and commodities.
Sign up at WallStreetWindow.com and get real-time updates from Mike on all his market moves.
It's hard to know how to protect your savings and earn a good return in an economy like this.
Mike Swanson can help.
Follow along on paper and see for yourself.
WallStreetWindow.com.
Hey y'all, Scott Horton here to tell you about this great new book by Michael Swanson, The War State.
In The War State, Swanson examines how Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy both expanded and fought to limit the rise of the new national security state after World War II.
If this nation is ever to live up to its creed of liberty and prosperity for everyone, we are going to have to abolish the empire.
Know your enemy.
Get The War State by Michael Swanson.
It's available at your local bookstore or at Amazon.com in Kindle or in paperback.
Just click the book in the right margin at scotthorton.org or thewarstate.com.