08/11/14 – Jeff Kaye – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, Scott Horton Show, wrapping up for today.
We got Jeff Kaye on the line.
He's a psychologist from the Bay Area in California and has worked with torture victims in the past and that kind of thing.
He writes at dissenter.firedoglake.com.
You can also follow him on Twitter.
This article, the latest, another great one, at dissenter.firedoglake.com, is CIA intervention in Ukraine has been taking place for decades.
I appreciate you joining us today.
Decades, huh?
Sure.
Well, I thought America backed their first Nazi in Ukraine starting back last November.
Yeah, I know.
Well, if you read the American press, you would think Ukraine as a nation suddenly appeared on the American scene, you know, what, a year or two ago?
History is not something that the media in this country takes very seriously, and that's because who wants uncomfortable questions about what's gone on when, you know, to get in the way of what the U.S. is trying to do right now?
All right.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say, yes, the reason I wrote, you know, really the title of my article says it all.
CIA intervention in Ukraine has been taking place for decades, seven decades to be precise, ever since really the inception of the Cold War and the end of the Soviet, excuse me, the end of World War II and the beginning of the Cold War.
And you know, there's a whole history of the use of the United States government, you know, as the Cold War came up and they saw now not Nazi Germany, but Soviet Russia as their primary enemy.
They then turned to fascists in Europe, and actually they did similar things with the Japanese imperial enemy in the Far East to become new allies.
It didn't matter that these people were pogromists and outright fascists themselves.
They were utilized in ways that at first were quite brutal.
They parachuted people into the Soviet Union that were recruited from former fascist nationalist groupings in Europe and set up underground networks with the idea that they were going to overthrow, you know, the Soviet Union and its different satellite states or the ones they were setting up.
They weren't called satellite states then.
And that was where it began.
I mean, literally there was, I wrote about this in another article once that was taking place in the displaced persons camps throughout Europe, you know, World War II displaced millions of people.
And in these camps where people had been sent across Europe as slave laborers by the Nazis, trying to find their way back home, Ukrainian refugees were a hefty amount of them.
And in these camps already, under something called Operation Ohio, the U.S. made an alliance with fascistic elements in the Ukrainian nationalist movement.
And this created, in which they were looking supposedly, and no doubt they were looking for Soviet agents among these displaced persons in the camps.
And there were murders in the camps.
And at the same time, they were looking for Soviet, different factions within the Ukrainian fascist movement were trying to kill their different faction members.
It was really quite brutal.
And out of this came a dispute between the Americans and the British about which group of fascists to support.
All of this can seem like ancient history and would be ancient history if it wasn't that today, and for decades coming out of that, the United States government, as part of the Cold War, of course, financed, essentially, the Ukrainian nationalist opposition and that in other states, too, the Baltic states, Poland, etc., with the idea of helping overthrow the Soviet Union.
And sure, lo and behold, the Soviet Union did finally fall in 1991, but that didn't mean that the connection between the United States and these other governments was thundered.
I mean, you see that in these oppositionists was thundered.
And in fact, what you saw were a series of these so-called, you know, color revolutions in the Caucasus.
Well, hold that thought for a second.
Because I want to ask about during the Cold War, just how successful was the CIA at keeping ties with these various right-wing groups, you know, in Eastern Europe and, you know, the Soviet republics like Ukraine?
I mean, having a bunch of stay-behind right-wing terrorists ready to fight in Western Europe in case the Soviets ever invade, well, that's easy, right?
NATO's all over the place.
But how successful were they really at, you know, for example, keeping the Banderist movement in Ukraine going during all the dark times of the Soviet occupation?
Well, I mean, by the way, you bring up a good point.
There was a network of stay-behind, which we today know as the Gladio organization, run through NATO and the CIA, which ostensibly was used to prevent, you know, to be in place if the Soviets invaded.
But by the 1970s and 80s, were used as right-wing shock troops against left-leaning governments in Europe and also in Latin America.
And that's where a lot of false flag terror attacks by the right-wing were used to help bring, you know, bring down left-leaning governments in Italy, for instance, and elsewhere.
Short on time, though.
Oh, sorry.
It's a great tangent.
I like talking about it, too, but...
Yeah.
But how successful?
They changed their tactics from outright, you know, sabotage and covert warfare to, you know, financing groups of intelligentsia and groups like Prolog, a publishing company which was in the Ukraine.
And it was through these groups, and no doubt, we don't have all the information because it just has never been released about, you know.
What we do know is that by today, the fascists in Ukraine, in fact, have been utilized once again.
People like Svoboda and Right Sector were brought into the Ukrainian government, you know.
So a lot of this is supposition, but it appears through things like the National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, and the State Department, and probably under it, the CIA, you know, were being utilized to, you know, keep in touch with and support all along these groups who were fascist or fascist-linked.
You know what?
I want to go back and look at 2004 and the Orange Revolution and see what role these right-wing groups played then, Svoboda and Right Sector particularly.
Yeah.
No, I would like to see what was happening.
I can't say that I've gone back and re-looked at everything that has been happening in 2004.
I do know that...
I know that after 2004, Yushchenko, who won that election, made a point of establishing the rehabilitation of Stepan Bandera and other...
Not the guy that won the election.
The guy that won the regime change.
Right?
I'm sorry.
Yeah, the guy that won, the guy that lost the election but overthrew the guy that won the election with America's help and by pretending that he'd been poisoned by the KGB and all that crap.
In other words, America's guy is the one who rehabilitated him.
Right.
America's guy.
It's always America's guy.
I mean, I think...
I don't know if the Russians released it or not, but that clip, that tape, which was never just about a Victoria Nuland, you know, talking to the U.S. Ambassador Jeffrey Piat in Ukraine about how they were going to install their guy, Yatsenyuk, into office in Ukraine and, you know, telling him just how the U.S. was going to install this puppet regime.
It's all out there.
It's not like it's hidden.
Right.
You know?
My piece and the thing that I guess is most disturbing to me isn't even the CIA in a weird way who's doing what they are kind of meant to do, but the press, yourself obviously excluded and a handful, literally a handful of others.
Meanwhile, just promote, otherwise promote U.S. State Department, CIA propaganda, revving people up for a potential NATO-Russia war, which would be devastating to the world.
It's really quite frightening.
It's shocking that more people aren't screaming about it, and I really thank you for the opportunity to talk about it.
Yeah.
No, I'm very happy to have you writing about this and especially bringing up the context so people can see.
And, you know, I'm so obsessed with what's going on in the land formerly known as Iraq right now and Palestine, I can see why everybody else is distracted too, but there ain't nothing more important in the whole world than America's relationship with Russia.
And that's like a quantifiable, scientific, objective, factual statement right there, assuming the premise that humanity must survive.
So, you know, we got to keep our eye on this.
And by the way, I wanted to mention here this great footnote that you refer to in your article, Jeff, that ran at The Nation and Foreign Policy in Focus, Seven Decades of Nazi Collaboration, America's Dirty Little Ukraine Secret.
That was just a wealth of information, and people can find that link also in your great article here today at dissenter.firedoglake.com, CIA intervention in Ukraine has been taking place for decades.
And thanks very much for your time again on the show, Jeff.
Thanks very much, Scott.
Appreciate it.
Hey, I'm Scott Horton here.
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