07/02/14 – Dahr Jamail – The Scott Horton Show

Oh, John Kerry's Mideast peace talks have gone nowhere.
Hey y'all, Scott Horton here for the Council for the National Interest at councilforthenationalinterest.org.
U.S. military and financial support for Israel's permanent occupations of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is immoral, and it threatens national security by helping generate terrorist attacks against our country.
And face it, it's bad for Israel, too.
Without our unlimited support, they would have much more incentive to reach a lasting peace with their neighbors.
It's past time for us to make our government stop making matters worse.
Help support CNI at councilforthenationalinterest.org.
All right, you guys, welcome back.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
Our first guest on the show today is our good friend Darja Mail, former unembedded journalist in the last Iraq War.
I know there's quite a few.
It's hard to keep track.
He's the author of Beyond the Green Zone and the Will to Resist.
Welcome back.
How are you doing, Dar?
Thanks, Scott.
Good to be with you.
Good to have you.
Hey, get a little close to that mic.
You kind of sound like you're in an auditorium or something.
OK.
Thank you.
All right.
So I guess let's go through all the bad news.
I don't know what order you want to start in here when it comes to Iraq.
I guess let's start with the politics.
Is that all right with you?
The parliament met for a minute and then as soon as in the Kurds, they walked out, they took a break, they walked out, never came back.
At the same time, it seems like Sistani and all the rest, any support Maliki had has dried up at this point.
But I don't know what else is happening.
Yeah, I mean, I think that is the most important fact, that the fact that the Iraqi parliament met and that session lasted less than half an hour when the Sunnis and Kurds walked out.
Maliki, of course, desperately trying to hold on to power in any way that he can, but is obviously under tremendous pressure from both the Kurds and the Sunnis and the U.S. and probably several other entities to get the heck out of Dodge because he's obviously being blamed and mostly rightly so for a large part of the problem that we're looking at here.
So, you know, basically, effectively, right now, as we speak, there is not a government in Baghdad.
All right.
Now, so help me out with this.
It seems like if Sistani says, hey, we need a new prime minister here, then isn't that the end of that?
How can Maliki resist that?
Or do I overestimate the power of Sistani, who, after all, he usually stays out of matters like this, or at least certainly doesn't take this kind of public of a stand.
It would seem to me like he would have that much more weight behind it, you know, like when Colonel Potter says, damn, and you're kind of scandalized.
Whoa, he must really be upset.
No, I think you're right.
Sistani is kind of the end all in Iraq.
And for him to be vocal about anything is a very big deal.
And the fact that he's been so clear about Maliki is should be a no brainer.
I mean, I think it looks as though Maliki is going a bit rogue.
And, you know, anyone that would stand up and not jump the second Sistani says to jump is certainly setting themselves up for a bit of a world of hurt.
So I think it is just evidence of the growing fragmentation and chaos of what's going on.
And Maliki, you know, this guy's a despot.
I mean, he's been behaving as such from day one.
So it's not surprising that at the end of the day, when everything's going to pieces, this guy's he's hooked into the power and he's had a whole lot of power, needed a pretty good job of consolidating it throughout much of his reign until this current crisis.
But clearly he has overplayed his hand.
And I think his days are numbered.
Yeah, I mean, the biggest modern military rout probably ever happened on his watch.
So it's pretty hard to live that down.
And, yeah, he's made enemies out of the Kurds.
He obviously is, as Coburn says, he's just this hate figure.
He's you know, what what Saddam Hussein was to Richard Perle or to maybe to Mactada al-Sadr is what Maliki is to the Sunnis now.
You're exactly right.
And, you know, history has showed us and continues to bear out the fact that any government or any political figure in a situation like this in the Middle East, like with Maliki, where he's essentially a dictator, go around the regime, whether you're talking about Qatar or UAE or Saudi or, you know, insert name of of of dictatorship here, anyone that doesn't have military backing to back their policies, they're not going to last five minutes.
And in the unraveling of the Iraqi army that we've seen through through this crisis is clear that Maliki, you know, if he can't back up his words with a very, very big stick, he needs to find an exit.
All right now.
So let's talk about the Kurd, the Kurdish situation here a little bit.
Well, I saw a reference to actually didn't see the BBC interview.
I'm not sure if you did, but I read about anyway.
Apparently, Barzani has said that he's basically making it clear that as though he was ever really hiding it.
But I guess he's saying now I'm going ahead and declaring that independence is the goal and that we're going to hold a referendum within a matter of months.
Yeah, this is a big deal.
I mean, you're right.
He's this has always been clear.
I mean, the Kurds have never been they've never tried to hide it.
They've never been shy about the fact that from the instant it looked like there was going to be an invasion on back back even before 2003, they started making preparations on, OK, how can we secede?
How can we become independent?
And then started working towards that.
And they've worked on it very hard all through the U.S. occupation and made great strides in basically distancing themselves further and further from Baghdad.
But now they have, I would say, pretty astutely, whether you agree with the move or not is a different story, but definitely astutely taken full advantage of the chaos generated by this situation to further their plans.
And and they have done just that there.
But but this is then where we immediately simultaneously get into danger zone because you've got them selling oil now to Israel.
That's not going to go over real big in the rest of the region.
What Turkey's already said, point blank, we do not want an independent Kurdistan because of all the Kurds and the problems they've had with Kurds in southeastern Turkey.
And then what how will Iran react?
Certainly, Baghdad was in opposition to it.
We talked about last time, Scott, that, you know, it was just a few years ago that Maliki came to a political impasse with the Kurds, did not want them making oil deals without Baghdad being involved.
Of course, the Kurds going forward with those independent oil deals anyway.
So Maliki rolled a big portion of the army up to the border of Kurdistan and threatened war.
So clearly, there's all these forces against it, while, of course, Israel supporting it because, hey, they want unfettered access to a very, very large amount of oil up there.
But it's it's complicated.
There's I think it's another layer of when just I think we talked about before, too, the other week when the Kurds rolled in and took over Kirkuk, or at least the better part of it.
I mean, this is this is, I think, adding essentially what could become another massive layer of this conflict.
You know, I was talking with Mitchell Prother about Kirkuk, and he was explaining about how it's out there on the flat desert ground, not up in traditional Kurdistan.
And they want it.
And they, you know, Barzani, I think we always forget, I guess it was Barzani said, it's our Jerusalem, which means no compromise.
We're taking this city.
But then, you know, seem like there's a big question whether they can really hold it.
Maybe all they've really done is set themselves up for a real war with the Islamic State over Kirkuk.
I think they have.
And certainly the if not with Maliki, he's got his own problems, but he's also no longer adjacent.
Right.
No, exactly.
No, Kirkuk is off the table for Maliki.
Maliki is literally fighting for his political and probably physical life at this stage of the game.
So that's, you know, Baghdad's out of that picture for now.
But certainly, Kirkuk is a rallying cry for bringing more resistance fighters, especially former resistance fighters from under the U.S. occupation against the U.S., for bringing those guys in and other Arabs, probably possibly even from around, well, maybe not the region, but certainly from a broader swath of Iraq in to fight for Kirkuk because they don't want to let it go.
All right.
We got to hold it right there and take this break.
When we get back, more with Darjah Mail, former unembedded reporter from the last Iraq war and author of Beyond the Green Zone and the Will to Resist.
Hang tight.
Hey, y'all.
Scott here.
First, I want to take a second to thank all the shows, listeners, sponsors and supporters for helping make the show what it is.
I literally couldn't do it without you.
And now I want to tell you about the newest way to help support the show.
Whenever you shop at amazon.com, stop by scotthorton.org first.
Just click the Amazon logo on the right side of the page.
That way the show will get a kickback from Amazon's end of the sale.
It won't cost you an extra cent.
It's not just books.
Amazon.com sells just about everything in the world except cars, I think.
So whatever you need, they've got it.
Just click the Amazon logo on the right side of the page at scotthorton.org or go to scotthorton.org slash Amazon.
OK, guys, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton and this is my show, The Scott Horton Show.
We're on Liberty Radio Network.
Noon to three eastern time.
LRN dot FM. My own website is scotthorton.org.
And yeah, anyway, I'm talking with Darjah Mail, author of Beyond the Green Zone, heroic unembedded reporter from the last Iraq war.
And we're talking about this one.
That's really been pretty bad this whole time, to be honest.
It's just that the Americans have, you know, stepped away for a little while, but now they're back.
And I guess that's the next big subject here.
The top headline today at antiwar.com, Dar, is that the U.S. will be flying attack helicopters in Iraq.
They're up to 650.
They'll have at least a it was just last week that Obama said, well, you know, we'll have, you know, 300 advisers.
Now they're up to 800.
They're going to sell them 4000 missiles.
And they already have, according to New York Times, armed drones in the air.
If they're not doing strikes yet, I don't know if they're disclosing or what.
But, you know, anything more that you know about American intervention, what all you know about it, please chime in and then tell us what it all means for the future of this conflict.
Well, those are the most important parts of the day.
And, you know, just bearing in mind, this is such a volatile, dynamic situation.
I mean, we might hear tomorrow that they're going to double the troop presence.
I mean, this thing spiraled so out of control so quickly.
In addition to everything you just mentioned with the U.S., you've got Russia pledging support to the government of Baghdad, and that means arms and money.
You've got Iran rush shipping jet attack fighters to Baghdad to be used.
So it's clearly already a regional, actually even beyond regional war that we're looking at there.
And U.S. involvement is escalating dramatically.
I mean, technically it's doubled in less than a week.
That trend seems to be going up because at first, no, there was going to be no troops, then it was 200, then it was 300, and then now it's 650, then 800.
So this has all happened in one week time.
So it's really escalating.
And then the fact that now, you know, the so-called U.S. military advisors are now going to be flying attack helicopters.
We already know that ISIS has been very effective at knocking Iraqi military helicopters out of the air.
So they're clear.
I mean, if you're in Baghdad, you're in harm's way.
I don't care if you're in the green zone or wherever, that's just how it is there.
And then now you've got these guys, clearly, they're going to be going out flying helicopter missions in what is essentially a war.
So it's on, we can say that.
And I think at this point, I'm going to be surprised if we don't see all of these numbers, if you're talking about health fair missiles, or helicopter pilots, or quote unquote, support troops on the ground and funding.
If we don't see all that continue to escalate, I'm going to be pretty surprised at this point.
You know, it seems like, well, imagine for the moment, somehow you or I could make America, Russia, Saudi, Iran, everybody else stay out of the war, and just let things settle.
It seems like they're pretty much a stalemate.
Now, that doesn't mean that they don't still want to fight about it.
Maybe the Shiites are preparing, you know, a massive move all the way to Mosul, and they'll be damned if they're going to let Iraq break up.
But it seems like all things being equal, the lines are already pretty much where they are.
I mean, hopefully nobody draws them in dark black magic marker on the map, because that means, you know, you have millions of people stuck on the wrong sides of the lines.
You know, Yugoslavia style, you don't want that to happen.
But as far as, you know, here are the areas where the Iraqi army pretty much can't go.
And here are the areas where ISIS, yeah, they can't really go either.
Maybe they can do a suicide attack, but they can't really, you know, rule Basra one day, anytime in the next 100 years, right?
So, you know, and really, the war for Baghdad has already been over since 2008, 2007, 2008.
So, it seems like, you know, maybe if all the other sides could stay out, that might be the best chance for, you know, for things to settle out.
And then, you know, obviously, the Sunni tribal leaders and religious leaders and local Iraqis, they're not going to let the Islamic State rule them forever.
Not these, you know, Baghdadi and his suicide bomber brigades, come on.
I think you're right.
I think that as crazy as the situation is, that just stopping forcing the issue and let these guys be where they are, at least for now, would be the quickest and most immediate way to ratchet the violence down.
And instead, we're seeing basically the US policy of dump more arms, more money, more weapons into Baghdad, just effectively, we're going to just, okay, let's bring a whole bunch more fuel to the fire and get ready to start dumping it on it ASAP.
You know, once they start it, like you said, they may already be carrying out drone attacks.
I haven't heard anything yet, but that could be happening.
And certainly it looks as though it's going to be imminent.
So more fuel to the fire.
And if the US slash Baghdad slash Iran slash the Shia decide they want to go in and start taking back towns that ISIS has taken and basically breaking up the caliphate that is kind of existing now, then we're talking about a major military operation.
It's going to involve a whole lot of dead people and a massive amount of refugees and certainly a whole lot of dead civilians.
But that looks like that is being formed.
It looks like preparations are underway to force that issue because it does appear that the Iran, Russia, the US does not have an interest in letting this caliphate exist.
Right.
Well, and you know, I guess the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran has said that the shrines in Najaf and Karbala and I'm leaving something out to Samara.
Yeah.
These are the red lines.
And of course, there's already been mortar attacks on the Golden Dome Mosque in Samara, like in 2006.
So, well, I don't know, man.
So what about Iran?
I mean, they said from the very beginning that the head of the Revolutionary Guard was there, that I guess there have been some reports of some Iranian drones flying around.
What more can you tell us about Iranian intervention going on now?
Well, certainly, certainly they're very, very heavily involved.
And we have to remember that the US came out at least overtly when Iran made overtures of getting involved in some joint operations with the US.
And of course, the US denied it, which actually probably means it's actually happening.
I haven't confirmed that, but you know, we know what to make of government denials.
So they're obviously a key, key player in this situation.
And absolutely, probably more than anyone, don't want to see happen what we're seeing happening on the ground right now.
So definitely, like I said before, they're rushing Iranian fighter jets to Baghdad to be used.
Certainly, there's going to be personnel involved with that.
We already know that there's strong financial ties between Tehran and Baghdad, lots of business deals going on there, particularly when you go east of Baghdad, pretty much anywhere east of Baghdad, including Bakuba, and very, very heavy Iranian influence throughout Diyala province, especially right up to the borders.
Actually, there's parts of Diyala province that are actually getting their electricity from Iran rather than from Iraq.
And that's been going on for a long time.
You know, we talked so much about, and rightly so, about Iranian control of southern Iraq, but there's very, very heavy influence on eastern parts of Iraq as well.
So clearly, Iran has a huge stake in this.
They're going to be heavily involved.
And you know, and this is where it just gets so convoluted and insane when you look at the fact that Israel's pushing the Kurds to go independent to secure that resource of access to their oil while launching strikes against Syria.
And then how's that play out across the rest of the region?
And then, you know, Iranian and U.S. collaboration likely in Baghdad now, and just this is evidence of the total incoherence of the U.S. policy, once again, where, you know, guess what?
When you have total incoherent policy, you're supporting both sides, as the U.S. is with ISIS in Syria and the government in Baghdad, and then bring in all the other regional players.
And this is what you got, total chaos, violence, a lot of deaths, and the situation looking like it can only get worse.
You know, Landay was on the show, Jonathan Landay from McClatchy was talking about America's support for the FSA and all the training of the vetted jihadis and whatever.
Most of that is just, they're the border guards.
Since America's undermining Assad's ability to keep the jihadis, the ISIS guys, out of Israel and out of Jordan, I guess, is what he was saying.
That's why we got to train up the FSA, is just basically to be border guards, to do Assad's job of securing the border between Syria and Jordan.
And then, as everybody is saying, apparently, this is the biggest red line in the world.
Israel and America must get involved to protect Jordan.
And they've already lost one border checkpoint on the Iraq border there.
That's right.
Man, and so, wow, what do you think about that?
What if, well, yeah, okay, I mean, we're talking about speculation.
What do you think, Dar, if Israel actually gets involved in Jordan, helping the Jordanian king's army fight against the Islamic State guys, backed by Assad?
I mean, de facto, Israel would be de facto backed by Assad and the mullahs in Iran.
Oh, my God.
I mean, it's mind-bending.
It's really mind-bending.
But clearly, one thing would happen if what you just said came to pass in Jordan.
I mean, you've got radical Islamist fighters in Jordan who, for the moment, are against the Islamic caliphate being formed in Iraq.
And yet, if you start seeing direct Israeli collaboration with King Abdullah in Jordan, then it's kind of hard to imagine that's not going to change.
What happens then when we start having overt attacks, car bombs, and increasing destabilization in Jordan, which, for the most part, has been one of the more stable countries in the region throughout this whole disaster?
Then we destabilize that.
I mean, basically, it goes without saying, and you know this better than anybody, Scott, anything Israel gets involved with becomes immediately destabilized and violent and a hot-button topic and is going to inflame the region immediately.
So it's pretty predictable, I think, where that would go.
Yeah.
And you know, I wonder, too, what threat to Saudi Arabia these guys are.
I mean, I know they're getting their money from the Saudis, but so did Osama and he attacked them.
That's a good point, too.
That is, I mean, we can only speculate about that.
But, you know, the U.S. knows better than anybody what happens when you go create these lunatics and give them a whole lot of training, a whole lot of arms, and a whole lot of money.
Eventually, that chicken's going to come home to roost.
And that was always Osama's number one target, really, was the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, right?
The corrupt apostate sock puppets of the West, etc., like that.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's definitely a very dangerous game the Saudis are playing, as are the Qataris.
All right.
Well, thanks again for doing the show.
I think we're basically making a weekly thing out of this now, and I sure appreciate your expertise on this very important issue.
Likewise, Scott.
Always a pleasure to be with you.
Thanks very much.
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
All right, everybody.
That's the great Darja Mail beyond the green zone.
Into the brave new Iraq war now.
And we'll be back with Elizabeth Goytien about the NSA, etc., right after this.
The military industrial complex, the disastrous rise of misplaced power.
Hey, all.
Scott Horton here.
I'd like for you to read this book, The War State, by Michael Swanson.
America's always gone to war a lot, though in older times it would disarm for a bit between each one.
But in World War II, the U.S. built a military and intelligence apparatus so large, it ended up reducing the former constitutional government to an almost ceremonial role, and converting our economy into an engine of destruction.
In The War State, Michael Swanson does a great job telling the sordid history of the rise of this national security state, relying on important firsthand source material, but writing for you and me.
Find out how Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy all alternately empowered and fought to control this imperial beast, and how the USA has gotten to where it is today.
Corrupt, bankrupt, soaked in blood, despised by the world.
The War State, by Michael Swanson.
Available at Amazon.com and at Audible.com.
Or just click the logo in the right-hand margin at ScottHorton.org.
Hey, all.
Scott here.
Ever wanted to help support the show and own silver at the same time?
Well, a friend of mine, libertarian activist Arlo Pignotti, has invented the alternative currency with the most promise of them all.
QR Silver Commodity Discs.
The first ever QR code, one-ounce silver pieces.
Just scan the back of one with your phone and get the instant spot price.
They're perfect for saving or spending at the market.
And anyone who donates $100 or more to the Scott Horton Show at ScottHorton.org slash donate gets one.
That's ScottHorton.org slash donate.
And if you'd like to learn and order more, send them a message at CommodityDiscs.com or check them out on Facebook at slash Commodity Discs.
And thanks.
Hey, all.
Scott Horton here for WallStreetWindow.com.
Mike Swanson knows his stuff.
He made a killing running his own hedge fund and always gets out of the stock market before the government generated bubbles pop, which is, by the way, what he's doing right now, selling all his stocks and betting on gold and commodities.
Sign up at WallStreetWindow.com and get real-time updates from Mike on all his market moves.
It's hard to know how to protect your savings and earn a good return in an economy like this.
Mike Swanson can help.
Follow along on paper and see for yourself.
WallStreetWindow.com.
Hey, all.
Scott Horton here, and I'm so excited about Commodity Discs from CommodityDiscs.com.
They're one-ounce silver pieces with a QR code engraved on the back side.
Scan the code with your phone and get the instant spot price.
Commodity Discs are paving the way forward for the alternative currency community in America and around the world.
The QR code Commodity Disc.
Technology has now finally made a real free market silver currency viable, and anyone who donates $100 or more to The Scott Horton Show at scotthorton.org slash donate gets one free.
That's CommodityDiscs.com.