05/02/14 – Eric Margolis – The Scott Horton Show

lined up and all that resolved because it's uh... tonight at seven eastern time at monk debates dot com slash live monk m u n k debates dot com slash live and i've been trying to tell y'all you should listen my show cuz i've been warning you don't pick a fight with glenn greenwald cuz he's more better smarter are you are the new he's gonna kick your ass dude and then now so michael hayden on whose watch nine eleven happened is good thing he can take on glenn greenwald all those political consolidate all state power in the east and then how far do you think they can go before provoking a russian invasion response well that's the sixty-four ruble question uh... president putin you know that uh... our president uh... obama uh... now does not refer to president putin is president putin and and where you can they've been downgraded to mister putin and it's things get worse uh... he'll start because he'll be calling him plain old putin uh... so uh... way back before uh... the crimea part of the crisis uh... that gave him the authority to decide that very thing right just the same kind of american style not quite declaration of war but authorization to use military force that's right and uh... they're even in the kiev uh... government there's uh... they're mixed feelings about uh... starting a civil war inside ukraine you know this is not about today alone it's also about yesterday supposed to listen to him as the paragon of knowledge and and reason and and methodical planning why he even wrote a book with chess in the title so that's pretty soon as i read it i have great respect he's saying now arm up the ukrainians that if the russians it i guess he figures there's going to be an invasion and that of course the ukrainian military won't be able to repel it but so we need to give them i guess the kind of weapons were given to the syrian rebels anti-tank weapons and shoulder fired rockets and uh...and light arms in this kind of thing if he says that does that mean that's now the consensus centrist realist position in american foreign policy here i'm afraid it may be i have great respect for bernie and he's one of the best foreign policy minds in washington i've interviewed him uh... you know i like when he has with the neocons about israel and iran is that's right people a few people at the guts to stand up to the neocons in washington but but when it comes to russia like so many polls uh... brzezinski uh... sort of sees red and uh... his clear cold logical thinking seems to vanish and uh...he's so anti-russian i mean he just wants revenge on the russians so uh... but the thing is you can't arm the ukrainians fast enough you can't train military forces uh... it's a modern war it takes a lot of technical and training input but you can't just throw some arms at them as it was done in syria and said go ahead and create trouble so uh... it's uh...it won't happen quickly but uh... you're right there is the potential to create a syrian style mess where there are different armed gangs running around shooting at each other well and he calls it a deterrent right we just we want to keep him from invading in the way to keep him from invading is to set up a protracted guerrilla uh... you know asymmetric warfare problem for him to dissuade him from even going forward but of course that just means if he calls that bluffing goes anyway then there's going to be a protracted guerrilla war well interestingly not that he has the right to win necessarily but we see what's going on in syria where sides going to win anyway but only after america helped drag the thing out for al-qaeda and get hundreds of thousands extra people killed first and destroy syria completely destroy the whole nation exactly but uh... you know uh... well armed groups and uh... let's step back into the late nineteen thirties and nineteen forties when uh... the u.s. uh... was secretly supporting the ukrainian nationalist groups uh... who were fighting the russians and it took the russians a good ten years to stamp them out and to assassinate uh... older leaders in the in the western ukraine uh... this is documented in a wonderful book called special tasks by the soviet k gb general pavel suduplatov who was the man who assassinated trotsky too he was in charge of wiping out the ukrainian nationalist bands but these the today's uh... politicians in kiev straight back to those nineteen forties and fifties nationalist bands read by uh... led by uh... uh... stephon bandera for example and uh...it's so it's a that's why i was saying that the reopening of the people to move right yes uh...i was talking about this before sorry audience for p myself but seems like kind of a thing where you know we have republicans and democrats in america who libertarians can really tell the dimes worth the difference between them but they hate each other like mad and they call each other commie and nazi but what they really mean is conservative and liberal but over there you have actual nazis in the streets and you have actual people waving red soviet flags and saying they want the old u s s are back and so imagine the hard feelings there when it's the nazis versus the commies like from back during world war two and and as you say they're proudly declaring their loyalty to the legacy of bandera that's what they're marching for in fact according to our team anyway they had some footage out on the holocaust day they went out and had a nazi march in western ukraine uh... there are there are neonat season uh... in the ukraine western ukraine for sure but they're also a lot in russia to the skinhead groups and then you can moscow so uh... it's a it's a car it's a common problem but uh...there's been great exaggeration uh... when uh... the uh... the russians uh... claim that all the people in in kiev in the kiev government are nazis they're not there are a lot of uh... extreme hardline right wingers in the government of the there are in israel's government too uh... the uh... russians uh... by making hay with this and uh...it's funny you know watching the huge mayday celebration yesterday in moscow gave me a warm fuzzy feeling uh... as an old cold warrior myself uh... i i i had a great sense of nostalgia uh... and and singing the international people march and there were no tanks yesterday unfortunately i used to like those men i thought you were going to say that was the good part it was a big party without all the militarism it was a big party you know and as i travel in western europe where i was just was two weeks ago uh... i feel these russian tourists around i said this is great we should encourage the russians to party and have a good time spend on clothing spend on foreign travel uh... rather than spending on tanks and scaring the bejesus out of us like they used to uh... you know and unfortunately we're pushing them back in the other direction the old direction well i blame alan greenspan and central bankers for the boom and the bust more than anything when i hear people not just in russia or even bordering russia but just eastern europeans in general missing the old u.s.s.r.i have to put full responsibility for that on the americans for letting them down for the future that they thought they were going to get when it ended that we betrayed them and stole from them we gotta take this stupid break we'll be right back with eric margulies in just a sec hey you own a business?maybe we should consider advertising on the show see if we can make a little bit of money my email address is scott at scott wharton dot org hey y'all scott wharton here for the future freedom the monthly journal of the future freedom foundation edited by libertarian purist sheldon richman the future freedom brings you the best of our movement featuring articles by richmond jacob hornberger james bovard and many more the future freedom stands for peace and liberty and against our criminal world empire and leviathan state subscribe today it's just twenty five dollars per year for the back pocket size print edition fifteen per year to read it online that's the future freedom at f f f dot org slash subscribe peace and freedom thank you alright y'all welcome back to the show i'm scott wharton this is my show scott wharton show i'm talking with eric margulies author of war at the top of the world and american raj liberation or domination of course he writes at eric margulies dot com lou rockwell dot com unz dot com that's unz unz dot com and uh...so we're talking about uh... ukraine issues here and um...so uh... i just wanna make clear to the dang heartbreaks they ruin everything i didn't mean that america owed all of the former soviet republics and occupied states uh... you know membership in nato and america's free trade umbrella necessarily or this that the other kind of thing i just meant uh... not booming and busting and destroying the world economy over and over again so that nobody can ever get ahead for a minute before they get the rug pulled out from under them and you wonder why people miss the soviet union they had a crappy house but at least they had a place to sleep at night you know undershield under khrushchev or whatever there whoever the reminiscing about there so you know that's that's the part i blame on the americans the keepers of the world reserve currency and i don't know if you want to comment on my rent there at all eric or if you want to move on or move back to to events on the ground in ukraine now well i'd like to see uh... i agree with you entirely that alan greenspan and and the politicians who he was working with destabilized the entire world economy and of course tremendous political stress and troubles as we've seen all over the still royal on these people who created uh... money for nothing uh... are still doing it still goes on with quantitative easing so uh... we can blame alan greenspan but we haven't gotten over the the evil that this man created uh...the uh... and the coming back to ukraine uh... what's interesting if i were the russians i really want uh... the the west to take over the care and feeding of ukraine it's a economic black hole uh... it's a totally failed state the last screening finance minister said they would need thirty five billion dollars just uh... to write the ship stop it from sinking uh... we we see the international monetary fund which is an arm of american foreign policy is now lending them seventeen billion dollars which is the money which is never going to be paid back so uh...maybe it's the one of these guests all falsely that do you know that i don't have to be killed right but who wants it that crafty old uh... k g b putin he's three times uh... he's four steps ahead on the chessboard compared to the big new brisanski he's just trying to trick us into picking up that whole tab that's all this whole thing's about it's a bit scary but uh... it's a really scary thought he lured victoria newland into doing a coup d'etat in kiev on by the way on the point about the nazis i don't know what they're saying on our tea because i don't watch our tea but and i'm sure that they're completely full of it but at least in the west the critics are complaining about that nazi involvement in the coup i don't think anyone was saying that they got the top ministry positions they were just saying that it was their seizure of the buildings after the cops pulled back on the night of the twenty first that basically allowed for the coup to really be successful and now they're being integrated into the new national guard which i guess means they didn't have much of an army so they created a new one made out of these right sector dogs and uh...i don't know the bbc's got one of the kids on tape he's he's not the leader anything but he seemed like he was pretty representative of the group saying you know we just uh... we want a clean country that's all i mean not like hitler a little like hitler and of course my wife's ukrainian a ukrainian jew and i had her translate like double check the translation and she says yeah that's pretty much what he said you know a little like hitler well there are a lot of people like that you know and i uh... what i find interesting and this is uh... this is pretty deep stuff but uh... talking about old animosities uh... there are uh... the uh... the hatred between the poles and the ukrainians is now bursting out and they're walking on it uh... we're we're getting a collided topic control travel uh...uh... tour of for the nineteen thirties problems in eastern europe which had been forgotten a long ago now we're back on the polish ukrainian things on the their claims that the polls have stirred up the ukrainian women training uh... these right wing right sector ukrainian people uh... there border disputes between the two you know it's a little slightly easier which used to be german this whole area and we're certainly german dominated and we're waiting for the germans now to get mixed up into this mess as well man and so this really does go back to greenspan and the boom and bust there in the in the post-cold war world because you know the curse of the old world obviously hit you tell me you're the boss all this stuff man is all this ethno-nationalism and the fact that over the you know since the age of exploration and all of that there are no ethnically pure areas anywhere there's always people stuck on the wrong side of the lines if you have to draw a line around this or that tribe and so then though that means those people's rights are then you know up for grabs and as long as people are going to just keep fighting over where those lines should be drawn it's going to be the end of mankind because the technology now is too good for these kinds of disputes but then so how do you paper over these kinds of ancient differences prosperity that's how you do it trade right and so what does america do they blow up a giant bubble and then they blow it up and then they blow up a giant bubble and then they blow it up and so all of you know these ancient as you call it well not that ancient but these problems that have been under the surface now come to the surface because people are desperate and so wait a minute why are why are any of my tax dollars going to your people again and now all of a sudden it's we and they and us and them and all this crap and so and and it is the dollar it's not the the british pound that is the the reserve currency it's the federal reserve policy that has done this to the world economy and for example eastern europe and just led to i'm sure you can name a hundred more the trans distant easter which i'll never be able to say right even after the nuclear war uh...uh... moldova and and and all the balkans still people want to fight over kosovo right serbs in kosovo and on and on and on and uh... this gives me the opportunity to bring up the three missing being in eastern europe uh... the but not uh...who could be in a and better radio home and he's worried that there is an enormous conflict in the nineteenth century uh... they have yet they've been absorbed more or less now into romania or russia but uh... we're very close now to these old fragmented uh... zones of different ethnic ethnicities the cradle of uh... of jewish european civilization as well uh... i'm expecting these problems to rear their ugly head soon too right now so let me get back to uh... more short on time i'm sorry talk to them much air let me get back to this thing that you brought up about uh...food and just reading i mean parmia america's putin uh... brocco bomber uh... treating vladimir putin with such blatant disrespect and all of that kind of thing now i know that there's politics and all of that but still he's already said we're not going to have a war there we carry says will defend our nato allies what he means is you're on your own ukraine sorry for getting into this mess but now you know it's not for you which is fine with me i guess it's better than i wish they hadn't done the coup in the first place but you understand but um...so uh... it seems like they've already cried uncle on the issue uh... which i agree with so what's the point of of trying to pick a fight like that because it seems like that just makes it even even if just a few percentage points right just makes it a little bit more likely that you will get a full-scale intervention in east uh...in eastern ukraine by russia maybe the whole country and then we have to have this conversation all over again with a whole new set of very violent premises instead of what we're talking about right now where things have been we can count the deaths on a couple of hands so far uh... that's right well we're we're entering uh... as a student of past crises i can tell you where we're entering a phase where uh... we're we're we're but so we've had wonderfully about the war between every tree uh... andy p o p uh...uh... over the uh... completely useless barren desert area uh... they could it's like two bald men fighting over a column and uh... this is what's happening though to give you give the dam about doing in the west nobody cares about ukraine is that i think it's a big liability that it's only uses the week in russia uh... but we're entering now where we're going to when you hear the word president being used to know how to bomb shelter because and that's what's happening the prestige of the united states is engaged uh... against the prestige of the russians and of course of the western political leaders don't forget we we've got humiliated in the middle east by the israelis they're telling us to put out we've lost two wars now in iraq and afghanistan back-to-back or so we're very prestige conscious conscious of uh...the uh...we were doing violent and foolish things and uh... in the world against the nuclear power uh... just uh... so we're not called wimps and of course the biggest failures of this wimp word are the american republicans that have become a major political issue in the states and i'm reading all these articles about obama get tough get tough get tough and do what uh... you don't say things like that when you're kicking sand in the face of another nuclear power right especially when i mean i don't know every republican who said this maybe ted cruz said it too but what i saw was david brooks you know you can knock out with a open hand slap talking about how obama doesn't have the manhood to see this thing through where hey there come on dude you're not quite macho enough brooks to talk like that about the president of the united states you can call them a lot of things but less of a man than you do now that's disgusting well it's like george bush trying to prove his machismo uh... in iraq or george bush's father let's remember who had to prove his machismo after uh... after noriega in panama called him a wimp and he probably invaded panama to show the nasty noriega who was the bigger tougher guy uh... this is something to be absolutely avoided in the course of political affairs but that's just what we're happening now and uh... and look the the democrats are running scared they feel they have to do something to to show their machismo uh... the all these awful right wing democratic women who are lusting for war i know nothing about war but they're lusting for it like hillary clinton and susan powers in the u n m s rice woman who's a national security advisor are beating the war drums and giving the president very bad advice yep sure seems like a alright i better let you know we're way over time here but thank you very much for your time it's always great to talk to you eric cheers scott that's a great eric margulies everybody i really need to get a three hour show and do longer interviews i'm tired of hanging up on everybody all the damn time ericmargulies.com lourockwell.com unz.com we'll be right back with ramsay berudin just a sec oh john kerry's mid east peace talks have gone nowhere hey y'all scott horton here for the council for the national interest at council for the national interest dot org u.s. military and financial support for israel's permanent occupations of the west bank and gaza strip is immoral and it threatens national security by helping generate terrorist attacks against our country and face it it's bad for israel too without our unlimited support they would have much more incentive to reach a lasting peace with their neighbors it's past time for us to make our government stop making matters worse help support cni at council for the national interest dot org hey y'all scott horton here for braswell business communication services at fuse powder dot com braswell communications can provide a credentialed media presence for your company at industry conferences and trade shows as well as support services and consultation for publishing editorial and technical writing business to business and marketing communications research and information campaigns braswell also does website development and complete web content maintenance to include voice over audio and copywriting strengthen your business fuse powder dot com the military industrial complex the disastrous rise of misplaced power i'd like for you to read this book the war state by michael swanson america's always gone to war a lot though in older times it would disarm for a bit between each one but in world war two the u.s. built a military and intelligence apparatus so large it ended up reducing the former constitutional government to an almost ceremonial role and converting our economy into an engine of destruction in the war state michael swanson does a great job telling the sordid history of the rise of this national security state relying on important first-hand source material but writing for you and me find out how presidents truman eisenhower kennedy all alternately empowered and fought to control this imperial beast and how the u.s.a. has gotten where it is today corrupt bankrupt soaked in blood despised by the world the war state by michael swanson available at amazon dot com and at audible dot com or just click the logo in the right hand margin at scott horton dot org we should take nothing for granted