01/07/14 – Will Grigg – The Scott Horton Show

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All right, y'all, welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Horton, this is my show, Scott Horton Show.
Our guest today is the great Will Gregg from Pro Libertate, that's the website, Pro Libertate at freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
Freedominourtime.blogspot.com.
Welcome back to the show, Will.
How are you doing?
Scott, it's always a pleasure to be with you.
Thank you so much.
Well, I'm very happy to have you on the show.
Good to talk to you again.
And now, I can't talk Russian very good.
That'd be the wife's area of expertise.
So go ahead and tell him, doctor, what's his name, I presume?
Ah, you're talking about Dr. Raskolnikov.
Who's Dr. Raskolnikov?
Yeah, that guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Raskolnikov, yeah, that guy.
Well, there's no doctor that named to the best of my knowledge, but I hung that subrocket around the neck of one of the supposedly expert witnesses in the murder trial of two of the eight officers who beat Kelly Thomas to death in Fullerton, California about, let me think here, it's about two and a half years ago, it was 2011, January, forgive me, July of that year.and there's a fellow by the name of dr steven carter's i understand that he's a consulting cardiologist from berkeley who have made a very handsome career as an expert witness in those the tutor on the bed for the benefit of police regarding such subjects as excited delirium and other exotic diagnoses that describe afflictions that descend only upon people who are being beaten and kicked and otherwise abused by police it wasn't the taser that killed him it was a hard attack that he had while i was taser and exactly there are these propitiously timed cardiac event or other sudden seizures that only a couple of brain explosion when i shot him once a bit but there's this bizarre inverse observer effect that he talks about here there's simply a time appointed to somebody to die who has a certain condition and that condition may elude the professional scrutiny of doctors who are not as adept as he at least that steven carter's perspective and so what he does is he abstracts from these episodes of lethal violence the actual involvement of the police officers at the time in the case of tele kelly thomas a car to it never examined the body and it got treated kelly thomas didn't know kelly thomas before he was beaten to death uh... doctor carter suggested that because of that alleged prior history of severe drug abuse the victim's heart had been left distended and unhealthy and that he just happened to expire from a heart attack while he was being crushed in beaten and tasered by a thug scrum of aid of fullerton's supposed finest and the official rendering the official verdict if you will from the corner was that he died as a result of oxygen oxygen deprivation to his brain into his heart because of windpipe was crushed and because his chest was being compressed under the burden of the better part of the kind of tax subsidized and anybody who is burned it all by honesty and who has a grasp of the obvious the conclusion should be clear that there is some colorable connection between being violence inflicted on kelly thomas by the police and his premature death that carter was trying to say that because of prior drug abuse decades ago mister thomas had done irreparable damage to his own body and furthermore he had probably done irreparable damage to his own brain into his own mind that he supposedly had a psychotic episode in which he chose to fight these police he was supposedly pulling them down by ten pins are throwing them around like ragdolls none of which is supported by the half hour long video it was captured by a local surveillance camera or by any of the plentiful eyewitnesses on the scene they all described others one hundred and sixty made a pound man who apparently suffer from schizophrenia it was living on the street and who may have been a nuisance but was otherwise completely harmless was complies and he wasn't violent but he did put up a fight once he was attacked by officer cincinnati who was uh... along with officer ramos uh... the instigators of this active gang violence at the what he was pinned down to the ground and being beaten in case you do you put put put up a struggle because of the natural instinct when he has to defend oneself against criminal violence but i compared to doctor karch to erodeon raskolnikov from crime and punishment raskolnikov was somebody who flattered himself as being a world historic transcendent figure who is not bound by the moral law and to establish this principle he plotted to kill a really unpleasant older woman who was a pawnbroker very wealthy woman much loved by anybody and would not be missed and he actually explained his intent to a police officer raskolnikov did and justified in the name of the greater good after all uh... if she were allowed to die and make provisions for her own estate her money would end up going to a monastery somewhere instead of being devoted to the greater good of the community so because she's going to die anyway there's a certain percentage of people who just faded to die or otherwise be discarded by society why don't we redeem this somehow by uh... having her killed in a way that will allow her money to be used to benefit the lives of people who are otherwise blighted by misfortune and so on and so forth his conceit in this instance raskolnikov was that he knew that there was a percentage of people who are going to be disposed of and so we don't really have to treat them as if they're full human beings that seems to me to be very very similar to what carter's peddling for the benefit of police departments and law enforcement agencies uh... it is a ritual now when you see somebody who dies after a taser strike or after a choke hold has been applied or other supposedly non-lethal means of subduing somebody have been employed one of the first thing you hear about is the phrase excited delirium and excited delirium once again is something you only see in encounters involving police violence you don't see excited delirium being used as a diagnosis or as a cause of death in cases where the police are absent in somebody suffers a fatal heart attack or a stroke or something of that sort but practically anytime somebody is tasered and goes into cardiac arrest they blame excited delirium rather than the fact that this man has just been electrocuted and that there are dangers that are involved in sending a voltage and amperage of that magnitude through a human being and carter has been at the forefront of this he's been some of the he's been at some of these uh...taxpayer subsidized gathering sponsored by the bureau uh... uh...trident i've tried to remember the name of the specific sub-bureau there at the department of justice i think it's uh... the bureau justice uh... statistics of the uh...there's some subdirectory of the bureau of the department of justice that actually subsidizes these gatherings in places like las vegas and other redoubts of of uh... contemplation uh... where police gather together and uh...they spend taxpayer subsidies and stipends uh... a lot of it going into the types of vices that they would probably punish in their their hometown communities in order to be marinated in the latest doctrines of qualified immunity in one of the people who have been presenters of these events has been dr karch in addition to being paid seven hundred dollars an hour to dispense is uh... puerile certitude to the witness stand during the the murder trial bearing in california and just today incidentally scott i've been listening to the closing arguments by the d-a-t attorney rococo therein orange county and much to my amazement and my delighted amazement among the things that he touched on it was the fact that a police officer does not have the right to dispense summary punishment in other words he was talking about what we sometimes referred to as contempt of cop probably the most commonly uh...most commonly enforced at non statutory law that result in police inflicting violence on people it's not that they have probable cause whether they have reasonable suspicion to treat somebody as a criminal suspect they just don't like the person's attitude and so they invent some reason to go hands-on and inflict some street justice that's another expression that describes the same thing as punishment for contempt of cop and what the caucus is saying is that that police officers are going to be uh... responsible professional they will investigate crimes and arrest suspects but they can't simply dispense summary punishment and another thing he said that i found remarkable for it a prosecutor district attorney particular is that you have the right to have a citizen to defend yourself against excessive force from a police officer that's the first time i've heard this uh... at least in recent memory by a prosecutor district attorney it almost and somebody who was not conducting an arrest but simply tormenting and mocking this mentally disabled man instigated violence which means he had no right to defend himself if kelly thomas decided to fight back he actually said as much he said the only way that the right to self-defense would apply to what ramos and fincinelli were doing is if they had backed off and tried to de-escalate the situation and bring an end to the hostilities and if thomas took the initiative to retaliate against them against them in that case he said you might have a situation where self-defense would apply but he cited from the relevant statutes in california state law dealing with self-defense and dealing with the use of force by police officers to underscore something i've been saying for at least eight or nine years now which is that there is a natural right that in here is in the individual to defend yourself against aggressive violence from police and that right includes the not privilege but the necessity of defending yourself against unlawful arrest up to and including the use of legal force if necessary under the bad health decision of nineteen hundred so that's remarkable to hear that absolutely yeah i've never heard a prosecutor say something like that before maybe a retired one or something hang on it's will grigg from freedom in our time dot blogspot dot com we'll be right back fact the new NSA data center in utah requires one point seven million gallons of water every single day to operate billions of fourth amendment violations computers the water to cool that water is being supplied by the state of utah there's absolutely nothing in the constitution which requires your state to help the feds violate your rights our message to utah no water equals no NSA data center visit off now alright so welcome back to the show i'm scott horton this is the scott horton show i'm talking with will grigg from freedom in our time dot blogspot dot com freedom in our time dot blogspot dot com and we're talking about the lawlessness of law enforcement and in this case the beating death of kelly thomas and the actual trial of the cops and and right for the break there will you were talking about the prosecutors closing statement first of all it's amazing that this thing came to trial at all uh... then you say the prosecutors gone so far to explain that cops are not super men they're just the enforcers of the law and that all human beings have the right to self-defense uh... even from a cop if he's using uh... unjust force uh... and so you know that really is a echoing what you're saying there uh... that's huge that the prosecutor would admit that fact and that's going to come back to bite the state of california in the ass in the future certainly is and uh... assuming that we end up with the guilty verdict here i think that the jury rules on the fact that be a guilty verdict but that doesn't always happen obviously we have a guilty verdict in which the jury has been persuaded that the guilt of the officers by inter alia the invocation of the right of the citizen to defend himself against unlawful force by police officers were looking at something that may be a copernican revolution in our legal system because sense no later than the mid-nineteen sixties it has just been assumed this is something that was done through administrative action through bar associations and by uh...prosecutors working in their jurisdictions and by courts not by legislation it's been assumed that what is called by one self-help on the part of the citizen being subjected to an unlawful arrest or other abuse by a police officer was impermissible not because it was illegal because i mentioned just before the break the still prevailing precedent is a case from nineteen hundred called battle versus the u s which the supreme court of the united states said but a police officer trying to arrest somebody awfully simply the doctor to be dealt with this such you can have as recently as uh... within the last ten or twelve years any number of precedent in local or state courts recognizing the right to resist unlawful arrest but as a matter of policy it's been assumed that you simply have no choice but to submit i call this the rapist doctrine which is to say just let it happen because if you resist things will go worse for you and then this is where we get to never mind words on paper if you resist them they'll kill you isn't it worth it to just go to if you're if you can get away with you know maybe just a beating in a few nights in jail and eventually a chance to talk to a judge it you know presuming you don't get all off to guantanamo or something and maybe it would be better to not i mean cuz man they got radios to there's never more of you than there are of them yeah that's actually that's a principle that edmund burke was talking about way back in the seventeen sixties about how if he's dealing with somebody who's a common bug burke would be able to assuming that he had the uh...the astuteness of the physical capacity to do so he would be able to vindicate his own rights in dealing with such a person unless that person acted on behalf of the state in which case that individual and all of his associates would combine to bring about his ruin and that's what happened with kelly thomas yet two people start beating this terrified hundred and sixty pound guy and within a trice there were there was a uh... diabolical host if you will uh... pounding on him to the point where they literally beat him into an irreversible coma beat him to death in effect right there in the street and we'll look at anything wrong in it right that he was just another bomb that they murdered cuz they felt like a bit the problem was that his father was a cop yes that's another aspect of this but i wanted underscores the fact that his father's retired deputy sheriff and that has a lot to do i suspect with the way that this is worked out uh... there was some political juice on the part of the family here and that might explain why this case unlike a number of others actually found traction they've been yeah he's an honorary human in a way they found out after the fact that who got this guy had he was a made guy or the son of a made guy and so yeah i'm supposed to talk to him it's the the inverse of the corruption of blood principle it's because father had been part of the brotherhood of coercion that people were willing to listen to him unlike the relatives of dozens of scores are hundreds of other people who have been treated exactly the family albeit not quite with that's where it stated unnecessarily in california elsewhere and there's another case that illustrates this again this is another almost unprecedented development and that's what happened in atlantic city with a case of officer sterling whedon back in two thousand eight sterling whedon who was part of a little group that just love to set upon tourist there in atlantic city arrested for no reason and then unleashed his dog on an individual by the name of uh... michael truso t-r-o-s-o and it took five years but eventually there was a civil trial in uh... the atlantic city government magnus municipal government and the police department were found liable but officer whedon himself was found personally liable in other words he was no longer given the benefit of so-called qualified immunity and he's been ordered to pay two hundred fifty thousand dollars in restitution half of a half million dollars settlement to mister truso and that's the first time once again a recent memory of the police officers actually been held personally liable for an act of criminal violence now here's the kicker michael truso was not just another black tourist in atlantic city but he was a deputy state attorney general in the state of new jersey in other words it just happened that you have this individual who had some political clout who was on the receiving end of what goes on every single day no doubt in atlantic city and elsewhere and so i'm applaud the precedent for the being said here and i do have highly qualified optimism that these may have a tonic effect on what's going on across the country but it still remains a question of your status in are supposedly uh... small are republican society where the law is supposed to be king and you mentioned the lawlessness of law enforcement scott one of the things that people don't understand that the elemental paradox of what is called law enforcement in order for them to enforce the law they have to violate it because the paramount line all human action is the law of non-aggression and anytime you're involved in aggression you're breaking the law and so the quotidian corruption of police officers who were parking in handicap parking spaces are running stoplights or otherwise conspicuously violating these positivist enactments that we would be punished for violating that's of a peaceful what they do professionally what they do professionally as a cast is they systematically violate the non-aggression principle and i'm hoping in this last year as a matter of fact is giving me a little bit of contract about this front in terms of the philosophical revolution happening in this country i'm hoping that this is going to be the year where a huge number of people this country start examining police uh... quite from the perspective of what it is they're doing relevant relative to the natural law to the law of non-aggression a couple of days ago and i wrote about this on the rockwell's blog uh... i believe was on sunday i picked up a young couple who've been stopped by the police here in payette uh... they were in their early twenties they were visibly and very brief examination i recognize that looking at adult but they were stopped by a cop and i when i picked them up they've been walking on a very chilly morning and i drove them over to ontario organ was just a few miles away from here i asked why the cop had detained them and they explained to me well the uh...cop said that we look like it juvenile we thought we might be runaways i think seem to be obvious that you're twenty you know he's a he's a trade observer i'm supposedly not a trade observer but it was obvious to me that you were not juveniles but even if you were juveniles you stop for walking on a public street in broad daylight on a saturday morning that once again there's no probable cause there's no reasonable suspicion he was conducting essentially a stop and frisk here in in the city of payette one of the things that young man at this couple said to me when i mentioned what i did is that happy internet now is talking about police abuse and he's exaggerating perhaps very very little because over the last several years going to the decentralization of information gathering and and distribution uh... we've been having all these conversations everywhere except through official channels and it is having a measurable impact of the way people perceive what is being done people now are willing to admit that the police are a problem and they're a frequent problem that the aggression of police is something that's become a real societal crisis i'm hoping people make the the philosophical connection here to the fact that what they do is uh... matter of job description is violate the non-aggression principle and they need to ask themselves by what right to people claim a license to commit aggression against other human beings why do we tolerate that state of affairs because of the country we didn't always do that this is a fairly recent development in the broad scope of the history of american society and it's by no means set in stone but it has to continue this way yeah and i think that uh...well i don't know how much you know little d democratic power the people of the country really have to change it but certainly the sentiment is changing there's no doubt about that if you just read uh... you know mainstream newspaper editorials on the subject that like a maybe balcos right that this is going a little too far y'all that's uh... really refreshing change especially considering all of the endless t.v. propaganda about how essential these people are to our minute-to-minute security you know there's still i've been cruising on that social momentum there's a program coming out of nbc in i believe a couple of weeks could basically glorifies this game unit in chicago that was nothing more than the apex gang in the city's underworld the difference is it was it was it's organized and funded by the chicago police department it basically your if they're tolerating and they're holding up his role models the people who were involved in that the torture cases over the last twenty or thirty years that the john burge's case you're familiar with that that creeden and his and his cronies they're in desperate straits i don't know what else to do they can't deny it anymore so that they're turning it into a uh...paper a prime-time t.v. drama the assumption that there's no audience out there i don't know outside the the fraternal order of police i don't know what demographic they're targeting here because i don't think that people even those who become inured to police misconduct by watching propaganda shows by cops and the like are going to make a hero out of this guy but again i was wrong about dick mackie i thought that i thought that the shield uh... was going to be something that most people would recoil from because of the fact that you're dealing with such a aggressively immoral in the despicable human being and unfortunately became somewhat of an anti-hero you know back before walter white there is a cracky but i do think that uh... temper of our conversation is a country is is change now and we've reached saturation point many of us in any case uh... with what's happening in the fact that there is impunity on the part of most police officers misbehave so i hope this is the year that things change for the better me too thanks well i sure appreciate your time on the shows always you bet thank you so much dot you take care alright but that is the heroic william norman grigg will grigg freedom in our time dot blogspot dot com he is the essential chronicler of police abuse in america hey y'all scott horton here for wall street window dot com mike swanson is a successful former hedge fund manager whose site is unique on the web subscribers are allowed a window into mike's very real main account and receive announcements and explanations for all his market moves the federal reserve has been inflating the money supply to finance the bank bailouts and terror war overseas so mike's betting on commodities mining stocks european markets and other hedges against a depreciating dollar play along on paper or with real money and be your own judge of mike's investment strategies see what happens at wall street window dot com why does the u.s. support the tortured dictatorship in egypt?because that's what israel wants why can't america make peace with iran?
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sick of it yet?it's time to put america first support the council of the national interest at council for the national interest dot org and push back against the israel lobby and their sock puppets in washington dc that's council for the national interest dot org hey y'all scott here hawking stickers for the back of your truck they've got some great ones at liberty stickers dot com get your son killed jeb bush twenty sixteen fdr no longer the worst president in american history the national security agency blackmailing your congressman since nineteen fifty two and u.s.a. sometimes we back al-qaeda sometimes we don't and there's over a thousand other great ones on the wars police state elections the federal reserve and more at liberty stickers dot com they'll take care of all your custom printing for your bandier business at the bumper sticker dot com liberty stickers dot com everyone else's stickers suck hey y'all scott here first i want to take a second to thank all the shows listeners sponsors and supporters for helping make the show what it is i literally couldn't do it without you and now i want to tell you about the newest way to support the show whenever you shop at amazon dot com stop by scott horton dot org first just click the amazon logo on the right side of the page that way the show will get a kickback from amazon's end of the sale it won't cost you an extra cent it's not just books amazon dot com sells just about everything in the world except cars i think so whatever you need they've got it just click the amazon logo on the right side of the page at scott horton dot org or go to scott horton dot org slash amazon