Scott Horton 0:10
All right shall welcome Scott Horton show. I am the director of the libertarian Institute editorial director of anti war.com, author of the book fool’s errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. And I’ve recorded more than 5000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org dot org. You can also sign up to the podcast feed full archive is also available@youtube.com. Slash Scott Horton show. Archie guys on the line I’ve got Dave de Kamp again, he is assistant news editor at anti war calm that’s news dot anti war.com. And also at original dynamic Werner comm find his opinion pieces in the right hand margin there. Welcome back. How you doing, Dave?

Dave DeCamp 0:58
I’m good Scott. Thanks for having me back.

Scott Horton 1:00
Very happy to have you here. Important things to talk about starting with the single most important thing in the world. And that’s not opinion. It’s a scientific fact, presuming the importance of the continued existence of humanity at all to you. Seems like a probably commonly accepted premise. America and Russia are in the midst of nuclear arms talks in Vienna, Austria. Tell me every single thing you know and have to say about it, please, sir.

Dave DeCamp 1:30
Well, okay, so the so US and Russia they met for talks this week, Monday and Tuesday, in Vienna, as the New START treaty. The Strategic Arms reduction treaty is set to expire in February 2021. And that’s the last major arms control agreement between the United States and Russia. And that limits the amount of nuclear warheads that they can have deployed and also, importantly, It includes verification regime, which allows up to 18 on site inspections per year meaning the US can go inspect Russia’s nukes and the rock and Russia can go inspect the the US and Russia has offered to extend this treaty because it could it could be extended for five years if both sides agree. And the Trump administration has rejected that saying that they want China to be involved. So they keep inviting China to these talks. And now, you got to look at the nuclear arsenals all these countries so the stockpile for Russia in the United States, it’s around 6000 for each and that’s including old warheads that are set to be like dismantled their stockpiles of active warheads. Right now the US has about 3800 Russia has about I think 4300 somewhere around there. Now China current estimates put their stockpile at 320 which is, you know, significantly smaller so that China has no interest in participating in these Talks, and they’ve said it over and over again. So when the talk started on Monday, Marshall Billingsley, he’s Trump’s envoy for arms control, he posted a photo on Twitter kind of like a cheap stunt of empty chairs, like Chinese flags around saying, oh, China’s a no show and and that, you know, they’re still secretly building nukes. And but, like, China told Billingsley in the United States that there was nothing, everybody knew that they weren’t gonna show up. They have no interest in in participating in these talks. But the US still is keeping the conversation about China and Russia. Is th

Scott Horton 3:42
re anything honest about that? They’re really trying to strong arm the Chinese into joining the talks are they really just this is the most obvious charade as a poison pill sort of an excuse to screw up the talks with the Russians has nothing to do with China at a

Dave DeCamp 3:55
l. That’s what it looks like to me because like I said, I mean, just the difference. In the amount of nukes that they have, and it’s expected that China can double their arsenal within the next 10 years, which would put their stockpile at 600 something. And right now the New START treaty limits the amount of warheads that they could have deployed at, like 1500 and 50. Which even if China doubles their arsenal, it doesn’t even come close to that. I mean, you know, when Russia has said it’s unrealistic, they they’re kind of they kind of seem annoyed by this whole stunt by the US because they their argument is okay, well, let’s get France and fall because France is 300 warheads. Let’s get Britain involved. They the UK is about just over 200 I think. So. Yeah, I really just think it’s just the charade. And I mean, this, it makes sense to get if you want to get talk to China about nuclear arms control, but I mean, the US would have to make a real big statement and really start dismantling their stockpile if they want if they want to. work on it with China where, you know, reducing, reducing their stockpile, but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything honest about it to me. talks are are over for now. They only lasted two days, not many details have come out. US is still saying they want China involved. Russia’s you know, saying it’s unrealistic and they’re supposed to start again at the end of July. And they established what they call like working groups. So it is they want to replace the new start with something else. But I just don’t. I just don’t see it happeni

Scott Horton 5:30
g. Yeah, well, no. Was there any discussion? Do you know about the intermediate nuclear forces treaty or the open skies treaty, both of which have now been abandon

Dave DeCamp 5:41
d? Yeah. Now in these new talks, not that I heard. But yeah, that’s a good thing to bring up the open skies Treaty, which the Trump administration just announced they’re withdrawing from which allows surveillance over this signatories countries which is US and Russia and many other countries, a lot of NATO countries have signed on. It and INF Treaty which prohibited the development of nuclear and ballistic missiles, you know, medium range nuclear and ballistic missiles, which the Trump administration pulled out of, you know, they always cite Russian violation, but it doesn’t look like they ever tried to really negotiate. Because I mean, the Pentagon was developing those missiles that were banned under the INF like, the next week. They’re testing them. And now they’re actually trying to put them around China. So, yeah, it’s becoming much more dangerous word.

Scott Horton 6:34
Yeah. And you know, of course, if it’s true, and apparently it is I guess no best information is maybe there really is something to the idea that the Russians were violating the treaty by creating these medium range missiles, but they were deploying them along their frontier with China, not introduce them into Eastern Europe at all. I mean, obviously, that could change. But it didn’t seem like it was just a loophole. For them to invent medium range missiles to get around their treaty with the US. It was because I mean, they don’t need long range missiles for China. They share frontier there, you know? Yeah. And so but then the Americans, it was quite clear. In fact, Chas Freeman, who’s authoritative on this issue, who was with Nixon when they shook hands with mouse a tongue and opened up China? He was saying that, yeah, no. Yes, it’s right that the Americans wanted out of the INF Treaty, so that they too could confront China with these intermediate range nuclear missiles, which, you know, I’m no nuclear war strategist, but I don’t see what difference that makes compared to America’s pre existing ability to nuke China with submarines or long range missiles or bombers, whatever they want anyway. But so they’re willing to to risk reintroducing intermediate range missiles into Europe and escalating the nuclear arms race with Russia in Europe, because both America and Russia want these nukes for confronting China is completely bananas. Yeah. And a few hundred million people in Europe who might dispute that. That’s worth it, you know? Yeah.

Dave DeCamp 8:29
And then But back to this Marshall Billings, the guy who’s heading these talks, you know, he’s not sending the best signals to Russia. Before the talks he he said that if a new nuclear arms race starts that the US is prepared to spend Russia and China into oblivion was the quote. So he doesn’t seem too interested in actually making a deal here. And another thing that happened Earlier this month, it was revealed last week was the the Senate Armed Services Committee. They put aside $10 million in their version of the NDA, to yearly Pentagon spending bill to resume live nuclear testing. Which is alarming. Because there was a story in the Washington Post in May that that the Trump administration was disgusting, doing live tests. Some people dismissed it because like the preparation to actually go into that is is a lot. But this is a little This was Tom Cotton’s idea, which is no surprise. So this is the senate version of the NDA. It might end in the Senate and the House, you know, they have to negotiate their version. What goes to Trump’s desk. This might have some pushback in the house to the money for the for the live test, but yeah, it’s definitely alarming. It looks like we’re gearing up for a new nuclear arms race here.

Scott Horton 10:00
Yeah, I love that whole thing about spin them into oblivion. Is that a thing? A country can be spent into oblivion Hmm. And we’ve seen that before. Is that right? And yeah, we know that that can’t happen here because wat goes Way? Anyway, yeah, me and my bad grammar. Hey man, you guys are gonna love No dev no ops no ID by Hussein bodek Johnny. It’s a fun and interesting read all about how to run your high tech company. Like a good libertarian should forget all the junk. Read no dev no Ops, no it by Hussein bodek. Johnny, find it in the margin. It’s Scott horton.org. Hey, y’all, here’s the thing. Donate $100 to the Scott Horton show, and you can get a QR code commodity disk. As my gift to you. It’s a one ounce silver disc With a QR code on the back, you take a picture of with your phone, and it gives you the instant spot price. And lets you know what that silver that ounces silver is worth on the market and Federal Reserve Notes in real time. It’s the future of currency in the past to commodity discs.com. Or just go to Scott Horton. org slash donate. Hey guys, Scott Horton here for expand designs calm. Harley Abbott and his crew do an outstanding job designing building and maintaining my sites. And they’ll do great work for you need a new website? Go to expand designs comm slash Scott and say 500 bucks. All right, let’s talk about one of our many wars in the Middle East, this time Yemen and in fact this is the sub War Within the Yemen war. This is the split between the southern separatists the southern Transitional Council as it’s called, and their us He allies who had an alliance previously with the Saudi and American back, Totti government, but then they’ve had some troubles and back again, can you fill us in there?

Dave DeCamp 12:15
Yeah, um, there’s been a lot of fighting between the STC and how these government the biggest battle looks like, was the island of kotra. If I’m saying that, right. They, this DC took it from the hottie government. And you know, they raised their flag of South Yemen, the former country that was disbanded in 1991, North and South turned into the Yemen, the borders that we know today. And then they it seemed like the Saudis brokered a ceasefire, because they don’t want to have to deal with these guys in the south while they’re having so much trouble with the Houthis. But Jason just wrote a story yesterday on Thursday that it looks like that ceasefire did not last long enough. I think at least 54 fighters were killed in the in the southern province of Yon, which is where the STC are. So yeah, so it looks like they still have a big headache in the south there the Saudis and the Saudi government that they’re fighting to reinstate the war is not going well for them.

Scott Horton 13:20
And then I mean, when we say the Hadi government, is there actually land that they control anywhere?

Dave DeCamp 13:28
Yeah, there is. There is land that they control. They technically control Aden, the port city of Aden. I mean, when

Scott Horton 13:37
they have an alliance with STC they

Dave DeCamp 13:39
do that’s true. Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s real. It is complicat

Scott Horton 13:43
d. They occupy the Radisson in Riya

Dave DeCamp 13:46
h. Yeah, yeah. Well, it does. Yeah. Yeah,

Scott Horton 13:54
the rebels have ruled the capital city for five and a half years now but they’re still rebels. The guy hiding in a hotel in another country is the government there.

Dave DeCamp 14:05
Yeah. And you all know that it’s important to know that the area under Houthi control, that’s where 70% of the population is. And there’s been a lot of aid cuts lately. The World Food Program, USA D. and the UN cut a lot of programs. And I know it might seem kind of silly. It’s like the United States is the country that is causing the crisis there and also giving them aid. But when you have a population, I mean, it’s like 80% of them are reliant on this aid. There’s no blockade on the country like they need it, or people are gonna really I mean, people are dying people are starving. But these aid cuts are, are, are no good when you have such a big population relying on it.

Scott Horton 14:50
Yeah. All right. So let’s talk about the annexation of the West Bank, which is imminent now. was the 26th. We’re talking here. And they say on the first of July, they’re going to outright annex how much of the West Bank day.

Dave DeCamp 15:11
Well, so the Trump peace plan out the amount of land allocated to Israel in the Trump peace plan. So he’s paint peace in quotes. There was the parts of the Jordan Valley and the settlements, most of the settlements, the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which it made about 30% of the West Bank. And now Netanyahu, he wants to do the whole thing, you know, unilateral annexation of those areas. But he’s having trouble with Benny ganz who’s the defense minister and they brokered a power sharing deal after the there’s like three back to back elections and and that putting either one in power, so ganz is set to take Over next year, and for the United US officials have said for Netanyahu to get the green light he needs to work out with ganz and ganz is a little more cautious. Yeah, he’s not. He wants the same areas to be under, you know, Israeli sovereignty. He wants to annex the same areas, but he wants to do more cautiously. He’s worried about the King Abdullah in Jordan and peace treaties with Egypt and kind of inflaming the region because, you know, that’s, I mean, that’s gonna happen if Israel takes all that land, it’s gonna be a lot of violence is gonna erupt. And then there is meetings this week between you know, Kushner and Friedman and all the US officials involved in this Pompei. I think Trump was involved. And it looks like nothing publicly really came out. They’re supposed to make a decision that apparently they did it, but I mean, mondo, I was reading on Mondo Weiss that it looks like Like they did come to a decision yet some sources. Were saying that it looks like they’re going to start with just two settlement blocks for now. So it’s going to be kind of a gradual thing, which was a big, which was under consideration that the whole time. That’s kind of what Kant’s was saying, like a process of annexation.

Scott Horton 17:21
Yeah, establishing facts on the ground, they call it so. But I mean, that would make a bit of difference. If you know, public relations wise, I guess if they slow it down and do it in smaller steps here. I read just a headline. So I won’t characterize the article too bad because I don’t know exactly what it said. But it’s known as the headline, I think, at the Washington Post, you know, opinion page where they were saying that, you know, if this happens, then the Palestinians The danger is that they will be deprived of hope. And then of course, you know, I don’t know how cynical the actual piece was. But the reality of that is, of course, the word false should be in brackets right there before hope. And the point being that the Palestinians might be driven to absolute despair at this point where now they no longer by the propaganda campaign, that some day, if they just hold their horses, they’ll get their Palestinian state. And now that they’ll know that they will never have independence, then they’ll have nothing to lose and things will get worse for Israel. You know, that’s, of course, the way it’s all framed. But yeah, seems like there’s a real danger that right, like, why not have another Intifada at that point?

Dave DeCamp 18:40
Yeah, no, you’re right. I mean, they will have nothing to lose at that point. And and that does seem to be the concern, because some democrats are speaking out about annexation, but it’s all about how it’s gonna affect Israel. It’s not that they really care about the Palestinians.

Scott Horton 18:53
It goes to show how cynical the entire Oslo process has been and the remnants of it and the different so called You know, peace process campaigns under clinton, Bush and Obama and all the way through right now. It’s all hoax.

Dave DeCamp 19:08
Yeah. And it’s there’s so many. There’s so many things that play to like a lot of the settlers, the settler like leaders. They don’t think Trump’s plan is enough, because they don’t want to be in like what they call enclaves. They don’t want to be in Israeli territory surrounded by Palestinian territory. And that, you know, they don’t want a Palestinian state at all. And then Yahoo has said if he goes through the full annexation, no Palestinians are going to become Israeli citizens. And there will be no desert like state and he won’t and one of the concessions Israel’s supposed to make under the plan was a settlement freeze for like four years. And he says there’s gonna be no settlement freeze. So I mean, then then Yahoo just just wants to land and wants to just continue to creep into the rest of the territory in the West Bank. And I mean, he what the Palestinians are desperate, I mean, This plan is just ridiculous. If you ever if you look at the map, the there’s like Israeli only roads going through the West Bank and it’s just it really just like makes apartheid rule official, you know?

Scott Horton 20:15
Right, which is a major, you know, rhetorical change anyway, I mean life, I don’t know how much it’s really going to change for the people in Palestine. But you know, it’s not just the Palestinians who’ve been put off by this narrative of the two state solution. It’s, you know, the governments of Western Europe have at least hid behind it, of course, and American liberal Zionist Jews who support the State of Israel, but who don’t support the subjugation of the Palestinians have been able to have it both ways. For now 30 years since or more What? Yes, 30 years almost since Oslo saying that Well, yeah, no, look, what’s happening is wrong. But we could fix it if only we just didn’t have Sharon or didn’t have Netanyahu or whoever the problem is this or that particular point. But someday, once they have independence, and it’ll be fine, and we can have our Israel or the Israelis can have their Israel and the Palestinians can have their Palestine. But now they can’t really hide behind believing that anymore, because now No, no. Well, as you just said, it’s cranking up the official status of the apartheid system there. What do you do when Israel takes all the land and they take all the people to I mean, they’re essentially kidnapped and what the hell is going on here? And how is anybody supposed to rationalize it now that they can’t hide behind the Oslo process that really broke down back in 1995. And which wasn’t really going to grant them a Palestinian state anyway, if you look closely at it, but still, I mean, so now, the game is up as far as that goes, and so what effect that has liberal Zionists and liberal Zionism in America, I think we’re only going to just be at the start of seeing what happens with that. But it should matter a lot to design this consensus inside the United States, certainly, according to what they’ve been saying all this time. You know, not not the right wing Hawks. But the the liberal, the more liberal Zionist organizations. In fact, even APEC has officially supported a two state solution all along. So I guess it’ll be interesting to see.

Dave DeCamp 22:34
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then there’s another thing at play here is uh, so that is that there’s a possibility that net Yahoo might call for new elections, because there’s some polls that show if there was a new election is his block in the Knesset would get enough seats for him to form a government without GaNS? There’s some there’s a story Look food sources told like the Jerusalem Post that, you know, they were kindof there that they would take the

Scott Horton 23:06
absolutely nuts to do that again, right? Yeah. Oh my god, they would all know what a circus right and what a better way to get out of that trial again to you know?

Dave DeCamp 23:16
Yeah, yeah. And also like Netanyahu if he doesn’t pull off the annexation he can blame it on the GaNSes blue and white party. If he does pull it, like, pull it off, you’ll probably get a lot more support. So like that’s all at play to hear. Because I know like the Likud party they want. They wanted to spend that coalition government according to, you know, the sources that speaking to Israeli media, like they don’t want anything to do with that coalition government, apparently. I don’t know, man. I mean, he’s already by election. Yeah, it’s true.

Scott Horton 23:50
It’d be crazy for him to do that. And, as you were saying before, ganz has complained enough. It’s not like he’s some kind of hero for power. Standing independence or anything here?

Dave DeCamp 24:02
No, he, he said the other day. Palestinians are taking too long to lke subjugated were’t Yeah, yeah, they weren’t just complaining how they weren’t coming to the negotiating table. And he said something like Palestinians are Indian. And I don’t want any part of it so he’s definitely not a hero for the Palestinias.

Scott Horton 24:23
In his first election ads bragged about reducing Gaza quote to the Stone Age.

Dave DeCamp 24:29
Yeah

Scott Horton 24:30
helpless, defenseless, imprisoned Ga

Dave DeCamp 24:34
Yep. Yeah, that’s the kind of guy he is. He’s just a little smarter.

Scott Horton 24:38
He’s a moderate. See he’s a moderate. He’s a moderate lead

Dave DeCamp 24:43
He’s more diplomatic than that. Yeah, that’s it

Scott Horton 24:46
Don’t make me dig up. Ariel Sharon. Yes, the threat right. Gotta settle. Good for these guys. All right now and speaking of Israel and Israel In the United States, let’s talk about these crushing new sanctions on Syria.

Dave DeCamp 25:06
Oh, yeah.

Scott Horton 25:08
Well, by the way, I think you picked up on the narrative here that Dave has stories on all these stories@news.antiwar.com. Go ahead.

Dave DeCamp 25:20
So these new sanctions under the Caesar act, we’ve ran a lot of stories on at anti war calm, a lot of good people writing about it. So right now, before these new sanctions took effect, our US sanctions, blocked the assets of Syrians in Syria trying to rebuild the country. And these new sanctions can target anybody, regardless of nationality, who’s investing in the country for the what they call the corrupt reconstruction effort. So it’s dangerous and it’s driven a lot of investors out of Syria. It’s really Having to put a squeeze on Lebanon. It’s it’s discouraging the regional neighbors like Lebanon and Jordan and Iraq to help the reconstruction effort after the almost, you know, nine year war that ripped apart that country. And it’s just and it’s like specifically targeting construction and energy sectors. It’s like for the purpose of not letting Assad rebuild the first round of saying of these new sanctions. I’m not I forget exactly who they went against. I know one of them was on Assad’s wife. But yeah, it’s just really brutal. And after all those years of war now, the United States is gonna do anything they can to not let them rebuild the country. And it’s just a shame and and including keeping troops in eastern Syria. They’re stealing their oil

Scott Horton 26:55
and where’s that oil going? By the way the Americans are funneling it off to Turkey. What are they? They’re just sitting on or wh

Dave DeCamp 27:02
t? I don’t know. Actually, I I’m not sure certainly

Scott Horton 27:05
keeping it out of the hands of Damascus.

Dave DeCamp 27:07
Yeah, we’re definitely not making any money on it. But yet we’ve there’s been a lot of good stuff written about it. Daniel garrison at the American Conservative wrote a good story. People want to look for more detail, but it hurts, you know, I mean, there was some story that we ran. There’s Syrian Americans protesting in Allentown Pennsylvania the the sanctions because they can’t send money home they’re not gonna be able to send money home now.

Scott Horton 27:34
Yeah, to their family, which is just, it’s just cruel. You know, theres, I guess I got to find the time to read this stupid thing, man, this john bolton book. I got the PDF of it but I did read one news story about it. Where they talked about this conflict. I like it when they talk about in stark terms because it’s very rare. You can read a piece in the times of the post where they really frank about this where, look, we have a real split between, for example, General Mattis, who is the Secretary of Defense, the Marine Corps General, he wanted to kill Islamic State guys. And he’s an Iran Hawk. Nobody ever confused him for not being one. He got fired for being too much of an Iran Hawk in the Obama years. Alright, but his thing was, let’s kill ISIS guys. And there’s this giant push by Bolton and others and pompeyo and the others in the administration that knows when we’re in Syria, essentially, this is the part they don’t say out loud. We’re on ISIS aside the enemy is Iran. And, you know, they’re friends, in Hezbollah in the Syrian government, and that’s who ought to be the target there. But it’s not just the biggest bait and switch in the world from one thing to another, but it’s from one thing to its opposite, where it’s again, you know, essentially helping to accomplish the goals of the bin Laden Knights by fighting against their worst enemies when not outright perfect. Writing direct aid to them, which is part of the story too, of course, but always, you know, essentially taking their side in that thing. And this is great because you know, TV, usually with TV, I’ll never explain it and the post in the times very rarely explain that. Okay, here are the sides. And, ironically, here’s whose side we’re on or anything like that, you know, but that a bit of that is coming out in the Bolton book.

Dave DeCamp 29:27
Yeah. And it’s tough to know what’s true and what’s not true. But I think there’s a story in the national interest about that stuff.

Scott Horton 29:34
Yeah. Well, like you said schemas are our troops are right now they’re not fighting these llama state at all. They’re they’re keeping the oil out of the hands of the Assad government

Dave DeCamp 29:42
Yeah. And James, Jeffery, the US envoy to Syria, recently said that his goal is to make a quagmire for Russia in Syria.

Scott Horton 29:50
So Oh, he said that again? Who said that? Oh, James, Jeffrey saw Yeah, recently. Do you see that?

Dave DeCamp 29:55
Oh, that was a few months ago.

Scott Horton 29:58
oh, hang on. I gotta write that down. Make sure And find that.

Dave DeCamp 30:01
Yeah, because he’s I mean, you know, the, the stated goal for the US is to prolong the war and not let the country rebuild.

Scott Horton 30:10
You know, they started talking like that as soon as Russia intervene in 2015. They’re like, haha, it’ll be just like Afghanistan for them. And like, it’d be just like what? Yeah, it’d be just like Afghanistan, the place where we’ve been bogged down in the quagmire for 20 years now. It’d be just like that. Well, at that point, 15 years. I, these people, you know, we’re still in Afghanistan. They’re going yeah, we’re gonna bog them down and give them a quagmire like we did in Afghanistan in the 80s like we’re doing to ourselves in Afghanistan right now. Still would not hire these people to run my national government. Dave, you picking up the note here? No, they’re not good at it, not by my lights.

Dave DeCamp 30:55
Now, there was a recent us airstrike in in like Northwest Syria. It lib province against the al Qaeda guy. And it’s like that’s kind of a perfect encapsulation of US foreign policy like we’re backing. We’re working, you know, supporting Turkey to support those rebels in England to fight Russia in Syria, but also drone bombing some of them,

Scott Horton 31:20
like picking off just one guy that we kind of don’t like, he’s not so moderate. Let’s get him but the rest are cool. Joe Lonnie, still okay, nobody seems to be too bothered by, in fact, the entire presence of what’s a mini Islamic State there in the invalid province. You know, when ISIS declare their Caliphate, that was the biggest deal in the world. It lib province or major portions of it are still just al Qaeda, Stan, and that’s been the status quo for what three years or something now?

Dave DeCamp 31:52
Yeah. And that’s even turkeys preventing,

Scott Horton 31:54
you know, Russia and the Syrian government from ending that situation. Of course. Mm

Dave DeCamp 32:03
mm and that’s been like even in the mainstream press now like they call them al Qaeda yeah it’s not even a secret anymore like the Associated Press I read a lot they always call you know al Qaeda linked groups

Scott Horton 32:13
that’s hired to rear all Shazam which is which is Al Jelani, which is al-zawahiri the butcher in New York City. Yeah, you know, I’m not saying that America should carpet bomb or anything like that, but for us to be on their side, yet now that seem to be, you know, counterproductive for Americas.

Dave DeCamp 32:36
Yeah.

Scott Horton 32:38
All right. Listen, I’m sorry, man. I’m late and I gotta go. But thank you so much for coming back on the show. Dave. Great stuff.

Dave DeCamp 32:44
Yes, Scott, thanks for having me. All right, see

Scott Horton 32:47
e. The Scott Horton show anti war radio can be heard on kpfk 90.7 FM in LA. APSradio.com antiwar.com. ScottHorton.org. libertarianinstitute.org