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Kelly Beaucar Vlahos returns to the show to discuss recent articles she’s written on the hawkish elements trying to take control of the America First movement. They start with a discussion about Peter Thiel, who Vlahos does not trust, and JD Vance, who she still has concerns about but thinks is a bit better. They then move onto Vlahos’ experience covering the National Conservative conference, where her hopes to see more voices of restraint and realism emerging on the right were dashed by another year of Bush-era anti-Muslim fearmongering.

Discussed on the show:

• “Peter Thiel: ‘I defer to Israel’” (Responsible Statecraft)
• “The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza” (+972 Magazine)
• “Retro Israel panel defies ‘America First’ foreign policy” (Responsible Statecraft)

Kelley Beaucar Vlahos is Editorial Director of Responsible Statecraft and Senior Advisor at the Quincy Institute. Follow her on Twitter @KelleyBVlahos. 

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Robers Brokerage Incorporated; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott.

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Scott interviews Charles Glass about America’s long involvement in Syria, starting with the Obama administration’s support for the insurgent side in the country’s civil war in 2011. This move, made partly with the intent to limit the influence of Iran and Russia in the Middle East, has actually ended up strengthening them, as their positions have been vindicated by the failure to overthrow the Assad regime. Glass outlines the many times the U.S. has used the Kurds for their own devices and then betrayed them when it became convenient.

Discussed on the show:

• “Tell Me How This Ends” (Harper’s Magazine)
• Going to Tehran: Why America Must Accept the Islamic Republic of Iran
• Operation Timber Sycamore
• The Northern Front: A Wartime Diary

Charles Glass was Chief Middle East Correspondent for ABC News from 1983 to 1993. He is a regular contributor to TIME magazine, the Guardian, Rolling Stone, the Intercept, and many others. His most recent book is called They Fought Alone: The True Story of the Starr Brothers, British Secret Agents in Nazi-Occupied France.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

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Scott talks to Patrick Cockburn about the situation with the Kurds in Syria. Scott calls Syria a win-win-win-win: The Kurds have negotiated a deal with Assad that will give them some autonomy and protection from Turkey, Turkey gets a roughly 30-mile border buffer with Syria, the American people get a partial withdrawal from an unnecessary theater of war, and the Russians see their support for Assad more or less affirmed. The only real losers are those who want to see a perpetual American presence in the region and an ouster of Assad—though Cockburn is quick to remind us about the many tragic deaths and displacements that have arisen from the war as a whole. Scott and Cockburn go on to briefly discuss U.S. policy in the rest of the Middle East.

Discussed on the show:

• “Turkey’s Syria invasion rapidly backfiring for Ankara amid unexpected international condemnation” (Independent)
• The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA)

Patrick Cockburn is the Middle East correspondent for The Independent and the author of The Age of Jihad and Chaos & Caliphate.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

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Scott interviews Peter Van Buren about his recent article in The American Conservative, “Finding a Vaccine for the Impeachment Derangement Virus.” Van Buren argues that whatever President Trump’s real crimes might be—most notably continuing to help the Saudis prosecute a war of genocide in Yemen—nothing that the Democrats have tried to nail him with is actually convincing at all. Of course, if Trump’s political opponents were serious about holding him accountable to the law, they would also be forced to indict Obama (and just about every other modern president) for the same war crimes and abuses of executive power. Instead, says Van Buren, they will play political theater, pretending to be outraged about things that most voters simply don’t care about. He worries about what this kind of standard will mean for America’s political future once Trump leaves office.

Discussed on the show:

• “Finding a Vaccine for the Impeachment Derangement Virus” (The American Conservative)
• “Opinion | Our Republic Is Under Attack From the President” (The New York Times)

Peter Van Buren worked for 24 years at the Department of State including a year in Iraq. He is the author of We Meant Well: How I Helped Lose the Battle for the Hearts and Minds of the Iraqi People and the novel Hooper’s War. He is now a contributing editor at The American Conservative magazine.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

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Doug Bandow comes back on the show to explain the importance of America taking a backseat with Ukraine, particularly with respect to its dispute with Russia over Crimea. Bandow reminds us that Crimea has historically always been a part of Russia, and that it was seized back from Ukraine with relatively little violence and general support of the population. Bandow sees it as oddly selective to vehemently oppose Russia’s authoritarianism when the U.S. seems perfectly willing to support other oppressive governments, like Saudi Arabia, and thinks it’s extremely dangerous to stoke up essentially unnecessary conflicts with nuclear-armed countries.

Discussed on the show:

• “Time to Extricate From Ukraine” (The American Conservative)

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a regular contributor at Forbes Magazine, the National Interest, and elsewhere. He’s on Twitter @Doug_Bandow.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

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Scott talks to Dan McAdams about the U.S. withdrawal from northeastern Syria, and the ensuing negotiations between Assad, the Kurds, and Turkey. McAdams reminds us that the whole crisis was only precipitated by America’s decision to intervene in Syria’s civil war, a thinly-veiled attempt to overthrow the Assad regime. Scott reminds us that, as usual, it’s really all about limiting Iran’s influence in the Middle East.

Discussed on the show:

• “Veterans doubt value of wars in Iraq, Afghanistan in new poll” (Military Times)

Daniel McAdams is the executive director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and the co-host of the Ron Paul Liberty Report. Follow him on Twitter @DanielLMcAdams and read all of his work over at Antiwar.com.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

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Elizabeth McAlister of the Kings Bay Plowshares 7 updates Scott on her legal situation, following an April 2018 incident in which she and other members of her organization broke into a Nuclear Submarine facility. The Kings Bay Plowshares are a group of Catholics dedicated to peacefully protesting America’s use of nuclear weapons, which, as McAlister reminds us, have the potential to end all life on Earth. McAlister was recently released from jail, and continues to await her trial.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

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–SCOTT HORTON SHOW EPISODE 5095–
–TRANSCRIBED BY WILL W. GRIGG–

SH: Alright you guys, very special guest today. I’m joined on the line by Elizabeth McCallister from the Jonah House and the Plowshares, and of course she is one half of the most famous anti-war couple in American history, really, with the late Philip Berrigan. She’s the mother of our friend Frida Berrigan — great friend of the show we’ve interviewed many times here. We’re very happy to welcome you to the show, how are you doing, Elizabeth?

EM: I’m doing just fine, thank you. And Frida will be in town for the trial.

SH: OK, yeah, well and that’s what we’re here to talk about is the trial — when does it begin?

EM: Monday.

SH: And this is regarding an action that your group, the Kings Bay Plowshares, committed on April 4, 2018. Could you please tell us about it?

EM: Well, we went to the Kings Bay Naval Weapons Station and we went to 3 distinct sites in small groups. One group went to the shrine and made their presence felt there. Three of us went to a section up on the hill and close to their nuclear weapons and the third group went to the administration building and left many messages there. So we were pretty present to different moments and different works that the plant is about. Of course, it’s about nuclear weapons and the nuclear weapons that are carried by the Trident submarines would be enough to destroy everything on Earth, which is what we’ve learned over the period of study leading up the action.

SH: And you guys chose April 4 for a very specific reason as well, is that right?

EM: That’s correct. The anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King. We wanted to remember his witness and to celebrate it.

SH: And that’s an important point — his “witness,” as you call it. This all is very religious to you: your motivation here is your Christianity, is that correct?

EM: That’s correct. It’s Christianity, but it’s humanity, and it’s Earth, and the reality is that everything is up for grabs with these weapons. People, places, history. There is enough firepower on the base right here in Kings Bay to make it that — if that were ever used, we have read — that’s the end of life on Earth. It would spell the end of life on Earth if the firepower on each of the Trident submarines home-based here were ever used. Now that’s sobering.

SH: Because of the nuclear winter, you mean.

EM: Well, the effect of the weapons themselves, yes. They affect climate, they affect everything. They affect the air we breathe, they affect the soil. And it’s just a very, very dangerous weapon.

SH: Well, I have to tell you, I have no idea when I first learned of you and your husband, but I’ve always known about these Catholic priests and nuns who go and protest the nuclear missiles and make a controversy out of America’s nuclear arsenal when most of America just never pays attention to this issue at all. I think you and your groups that you have done these actions with over the years deserve the lion’s share of the credit for people even thinking of nuclear weapons as controversial at all. Most of the time they still go without saying anyway, that it’s just part of our security but I don’t think that people can imagine what it would be like to really see an H-Bomb go off over an American city.

EM: No, the thought is horrendous, and that’s why most people don’t think about it. But I do want to say that we are far from alone. We are surrounded going into our trial by some extraordinary human beings who are attorneys and who are just the most thoughtful, prepared, intelligent people, and human. And they’re beautiful human beings. And the privilege is to be able to work with them and to have them share their powers and their training with us. So the trial should be very, very strong, and very fine, thanks to them.

SH: And they’ve already said in the news that they mean to mount a religious freedom defense, is that correct?

EM: Well, I’m sure that’s going to be at least part of it if not the whole thing, yes. That’s correct.

SH: That’s very important because of course right next to how much American society cherishes our nuclear weapons we cherish our 1st Amendment and even out of all five protections in the 1st Amendment the freedom to worship as one sees fit or not or otherwise I think is the one that everyone can agree on as the single most important right of all. To be protected.

EM: That’s very, very true.

SH: And they’re trying to put you in jail for 25 years here — in prison, for 25 years, is that correct?

EM: I thought it was 26, but I will not argue over a year. I have already served 1 year and 8 months for this in the local jail.

SH: So does that mean they refused to bail you out, or you refused to be bailed out?

EM: I refused the conditions of release until they finally just released me without conditions.

SH: I see. I had read that a few got out and were on house arrest with ankle monitors and that kind of thing, right.

EM: Yes. Clare Grady just had her ankle monitor removed the other day and she’s been out for months. I had it for 3 or 4 days and they took it off. My release was very, very, weird and an utterly unexpected and unprepared for thing. They just wanted me out, and so I’m out.

SH: You’ve been through this quite a few times. I know you and your husband have served not just time in jail, but time in prison over the years for these kinds of actions. How severe are the charges here compared to previous actions?

EM: I think that the charges are not different, I think the consequences are a little more steep than what we’ve faced before. But not that much. What is it, 20-some years in prison? This is a figure I’ve heard, I haven’t explored it, though. We’ll see. But if it’s 26 years, I probably won’t make it [laughs].

SH: And how many times have they sort of backed down and let you go with time served in the past versus really seeking to press the charges as hard as they can?

EM: Well, never.

SH: They always really try to put you in prison for as long as they possibly can each time?

EM: Well, for a significant period, put it that way. And for what they feel they can get away with without looking too badly.

SH: In other words, they don’t treat this any different than if you were some kind of foreign spy sabotaging their precious missiles, rather than a nun or a former nun protesting in the name of Jesus and the human race.

EM: Yes. I think the way you’re putting it is quite correct and faithful to what we have experienced in the courts, yes.

SH: Well, I’m glad to hear that you’ve got such great, talented lawyers, We would hate to hear that the worst happened here. But it goes to show the level of your commitment, especially having been through this before that you are willing to continue to put your life on the line in this way, it’s incredible.

EM: Well, I’ve had some very, very good examples of people who will not be silent. I have children, I have grandchildren, and it’s impossible for me to think of them and not want to do what I can to make their future a possibility. Those children that are close to me are ways of also feeling for all of our children — all of our children whose lives are really up for grabs, given the way this culture — this society — is being run. And it’s not getting better.

SH: I have to tell you, I’m sure you already know, but in case no one’s reminded you lately, the tales of what you have done have really meant a lot to a lot of people throughout this society and even people who don’t know your name have heard of the Catholics who break into the nuclear weapons facilities to protest before. Everyone knows that’s a thing. And who is it that’s doing it? Priests and nuns are the ones doing it. OK, it’s immediate — it grabs people’s attention. It makes people try to — I mean, if not find out more, at least kind of grapple with the situation here, and I think you have had such an important effect on so many people. I hope you know that, regardless of how this thing plays out, that it has been worth it in a way to those of us who are paying close attention to you.

EM: Thank you for that. I hope for the fidelity to keep on keeping on, so we’ll see how it all goes. But I think that those of us who were part of this most recent action are feeling ready to get to court and to make what presentation we can make. So we’ll see what comes of it.

SH: Great. Well, we’ll be following it as close as we can at Antiwar.com. Again, that’s you and six others: the Kings Bay 7, right?

EM: Yes. Thank you for this, and thank you for your own work, which is really important. Keep on keeping on there, brother, OK?

SH: Thank you so much, Elizabeth, and best of luck to you.

EM: Thank you.

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Ramzy Baroud joins the show for an update on Israel and Palestine. He wants to dispel some common misconceptions about Israel, starting with the fact that the country didn’t even exist before 1948, while Palestine has a history that goes back thousands of years. Today, Israel is commonly held to be the sole bastion of civilized liberal democracy in a sea of primitive radical Islamism, but Baroud says this too is incorrect. While Israel might be more advanced by certain metrics, they purposely obfuscate aspects of their government, like institutionalized torture of Palestinians and the history of ethnic cleansing, that we should all recognize as barbaric and medieval.

Discussed on the show:– Advertisement –

• “Palestinians Face Torture in Israeli Administrative Detention” (Antiwar.com Original)
• “71 more Gaza protesters injured, 33 by live fire” (Mondoweiss)

Ramzy Baroud is a US-Arab journalist and is the editor-in-chief of the Palestine Chronicle. He is the author of My Father Was A Freedom Fighter: The Untold Story of Gaza. His new book is The Last Earth: A Palestinian Story. Follow Ramzy on Twitter @RamzyBaroud and read his work at RamzyBaroud.net.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

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Ben Freeman joins Scott to talk about his new study on the Emirati lobby, which wields enormous power in Washington D.C. The UAE generally has a good reputation in America, usually being associated with glamor, cosmopolitanism, and vast oil wealth. In reality, their government—corrupt like Saudi Arabia—isn’t afraid to use torture and child soldiers, and is every bit as responsible for the genocide in Yemen. The reason for this difference in perception, says Freeman, is that the UAE has a huge lobby that spends millions on their public image, in addition to paying for influence in nearly every congressional office in Washington.

Discussed on the show:– Advertisement –

• The Emirati Lobby: How the UAE Wins in Washington
• “In Yemen’s secret prisons, UAE tortures and US interrogates” (AP News)
• Foreign Agents Registration Act

Ben Freeman is director of the Foreign Influence Transparency Initiative with the Center for International Policy. Read his work at AntiWar.com and follow him on Twitter @BenFreemanDC.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Washinton Babylon; Liberty Under Attack Publications; Listen and Think Audio; TheBumperSticker.com; and LibertyStickers.com.

Donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal, or Bitcoin: 1KGye7S3pk7XXJT6TzrbFephGDbdhYznTa.

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