07/02/08 – Sheila Dean – The Scott Horton Show

Hi everybody, welcome back to Anti-War Radio, Chaos Radio 92.7 in Austin, Texas.
I'm Scott Horton.
Thanks for tuning in to the show today.
Our first guest is Sheila Dean.
She runs what's called the 511 Campaign, which you can find at 511campaign.org.
And she's the manager of the 511 Campaign, Texans Against Real IDs.
Welcome to the show, Sheila.
Hi, Scott.
How are you doing?
Doing great.
All right.
So the Real ID Act, 511, that means that's the date from what, May 2000?
May 11th of 2005 is when the act was passed.
And then it was enacted May 11th of 2008.
Oh, I see.
That's the relevance of the whole 511 business.
I see.
And so, yeah, I guess that's a catchy little thing.
And I guess, let's get right to what progress you're making, especially here in Texas.
I have to say, it seems like we're probably fighting uphill battle here because we've pretty much had what would seem to me to be Real ID compliant type driver's licenses here for what, 13 years or something.
Since I was in high school, we've had the digital pictures, digital thumbprints, digital signatures, right?
I think the main concern and the chief concern with Real IDs is the databases.
There's an ID chip in the licenses.
To add to the list of digital and technical things that are in your tech-savvy licenses here in Texas, there is something called a radio frequency ID chip or an RFID.
Throughout the show, maybe I'll be calling it an RFID chip.
Yeah, I remember actually some right-wing kooks put out a video warning about the chip in your hand, whatever, way back 10 years ago or something, and they had, that's what they call it.
It's the same thing as the Texas tag on your windshield if you use the fascist toll roads around here.
Okay.
So, yeah, that's where it is, and a lot of those people have been really sensitive and sensitized to the whole use of RFID technologies and licenses.
Why it's bad, of course, is the identity security of that can be picked up by anybody with a UPC gun.
So basically, they're going to ask you for your social, your address, any of the information that is relevant to your license, and they're going to put it in a database there at the DMV, and then whatever should be on the license will be in some sort of machine-readable technology.
If they decide it's a magnetic strip, it's still better than the radio frequency ID chip or the RFID, in my opinion.
So originally, though, where I wanted to start here was the uphill battle as far as the law here in Texas.
We're completely compliant already, or we're headed that way, or we've been headed that way for a long time.
Is the Texas legislature going along with this, and are you able to have any influence on them?
Well, I guess the uphill battle, you're kind of wanting to get at the struggle of what we're doing.
The hard work of being an anti-real ID activist here in the state of Texas is basically getting around the secrecy and getting around the fact that, and this is a trial nationwide, is that there are meetings going on all the time, anytime you're dealing with Homeland Security, because real IDs fall into the zone of Homeland Security, and most of the decisions that have taken place regarding real IDs have been in secret.
I'm not saying in secret, but they've been largely done without the awareness of the public.
Right, you sort of have the overriding law, but then you have all the regulatory rules and so forth about how it's implemented, and that kind of thing has sort of just debuted after the fact, is what you're saying.
It was released in May 11th of 2005, and it's like people just fell into a deep sleep for three years, and then in January, they had a really rude awakening when these regulations were released.
Yeah, and now I noticed on your website, again it's 511campaign.org, and you have a list of what seem like some pretty powerful allies, some of the big environmental groups and other big businesses.
Why don't you tell us about who these people are and why they're in on opposing this?
There are many, many reasons.
Just pick a few.
ACLU is someone here in Texas that we are working very closely with that is someone who is basically spearheading this nationwide.
They've been a wonderful support to us, providing us with materials and legislative background on how to kill Real ID, but this is not their only issue.
They're fighting Guantanamo.
They're fighting a host of other issues that have to deal with war crimes and crimes against humanity during the Bush administration.
The Bush has given a lot of things to do to the ACLU, because our Constitution has been under tremendous fire.
Real ID is just one of the things on the list, which is why being a single-issue advocate for Real ID is really important.
If this is something that resonates with you and you want to come volunteer with us, I can put you to work.
They can find the site.
What about these environmental groups?
What's their stake in this?
In the news, there's been a lot recently about the border fence issue at the base of Texas.
We have three Mexican border states, unless there's any more that I haven't covered here.
It's California, Arizona, and Texas.
New Mexico.
Arizona, at least.
Yeah.
It's Mexico.
New Mexico.
They have a new one now.
It's in between here and Arizona.
Okay.
I've never heard of it.
All right.
Well, I mean, I have heard of the state, but I guess maybe I didn't consider it.
It's all right.
I'm just messing with you.
It's okay.
The idea here is that these border states have had the DHS, or Department of Homeland Security, putting up this border wall fence.
The only basis, legally, for there to be an expeditious construction of a border wall fence between the US and Mexico actually is the REAL ID Act of 2005.
An act covering your identity, or basically whatever goes in your licenses, is determining the expeditious construction of a border fence between the US and Mexico.
I think it's kind of a reach, but if you talk to conservatives, who are kind of leaning towards neocon land, their argument is that if we document you, Scott, and we give you a real ID, then that is going to stop illegal aliens from voting, and from having any kind of rights in the US, due to documentation.
Right.
In fact, it's the same people who cry about immigration, and how they want government to do something about immigration, who, at least in part, are some of the same people who complain about IDs like this, and can't seem to recognize how their arguments have anything to do with helping their enemies.
You know, it's a complicated issue.
Any time you bring in US-Mexican immigration, or immigration in general, it becomes a very, very complicated issue.
But here is how REAL IDs will not solve it.
We are the ones getting the IDs.
Illegal aliens can manufacture whatever kind of fake Social Security card, or fake birth certificate, in order to secure a REAL ID.
So that argument goes straight out the window.
There is really no way to regulate the truth of the American identity if the documents they're asking us to provide are fraudulent.
In addition to this, how it becomes bad for Americans who actually have a registered Social Security number, is that this database that all of our information goes into, the database is the worst thing ever.
The worst thing ever.
Anyone, anywhere in the world actually, who has the capability of hacking into this database, can get your social, and try to be you.
Steal your identity, wipe out your bank account, find out where you live, and do random acts of malice on you.
Right, and that is of course how government protects identity.
They create more and more numbers, and more and more databases for you, to give people more and more opportunities to impersonate you.
And it's not working.
We need to find something else.
REAL ID is not the answer to that problem.
Alright, now, what about other states?
I guess you're implying, because you haven't answered my question, so I figure it must be...
Oh, wait, I'm sorry, I kind of digressed.
It must be, it must just kind of go without saying that Rick Perry, the governor, and the Texas legislature are all for this, right?
That's not necessarily true.
We have looked into it, and they are three people that we have to deal with.
I will say that.
In order to attack REAL ID properly, you have to deal with the governor's office.
So until we've given them the chance to respond to us, which hasn't happened yet, we need to hold off on that, any declaration of where they're at on REAL ID.
I'm going to say that where REAL ID stands for the state of Texas right now, where our battle is, is really with DHS, the Department of Homeland Security.
So it was two months ago, or whatever, two and a half months ago, on May 11th, it did kick in.
The state of Texas is going along, so far.
Well, the majority of the legislators involved in this process have little to no position.
That's what's out there right now.
There are positions on this, and there are legislators that are strong on it, like Carl Ifitz.
Now, Carl Ifitz is going to be reviewing the Department of Public Safety, who deals with our licenses, in the Sunset Commission.
In that process, IDs and how our licenses are being dealt with will be part of that process.
So I'm going to turn the page and go back to DHS.
DHS has a role to play in all of this now.
I don't want to aggravate anything by saying there was a governor's mansion fire that kind of overcomplicated the role of security issues really close to this time, which is kind of strategically.
You know, if somebody were going to try to make a political maneuver out of this, it would be kind of a brilliant move, but I think, you know, it's pretty obvious.
That's also kind of digressing.
Well, no, I mean, it's, I think, an important point that something completely irrelevant, like some idiot throwing a Molotov cocktail at the governor's mansion, or whatever happened there, is, actually does count.
It's hard for, it makes it more difficult for you to oppose a national ID card just because there was some stupid fire, because everything gets all conflated together and we're living in a time of danger and all that kind of thing.
We're in a war on terror.
We're in a war on fear.
You know, we're trying to base our legislation and our tax dollars going out over a war on fear.
And so if they have fear to manage or mismanage, then they have a job.
It's job security.
Right.
There you go.
All right, so are we going to see this real ID basically become a Soviet-style internal passport where you can't even go to Oklahoma without showing it to 15 thugs on the way there?
Ah, yeah.
I really do believe that it's going to go that direction, Scott, and the reason why is because the way that the real ID is written, the Department of Homeland Security or Secretary Chertoff or the Secretary of Homeland Security will be able to tell anybody in the U.S. what a real ID will be used for, which gives him these sweeping godlike powers when it comes to the use and address of a real ID, you know, license or ID.
Furthermore, the people who are going to be getting a real ID is everyone, not people who have operator licenses for a car, everyone, a child, a elderly person, someone who's disabled and can't drive.
Everybody's getting one.
All right, well, now in Montana and in South Carolina, they're saying hell no to this, right?
Any other states?
Yeah.
Arizona.
And I'm really glad that we are talking about Arizona.
Arizona has said absolutely no to no part of implementing or complying with real ID.
They've said no part to paying for it and no part to implementing it.
Guys, I found on your website a letter from the governor of South Carolina to, I guess, the Secretary of Homeland Security or whatever, and it was basically saying, listen, our state legislature has said that we're not going along with this, and so I'm asking you now to waive all the penalties and continue to allow my constituents in South Carolina to enter federal buildings and things like this.
We have to work this out or change the law here.
We'll see if that happens.
That's not my job, but if they change the law, that's one thing.
If they don't change the law, we need to work this out, and I think that's setting a pretty good precedent for other governors to follow, that this kind of thing can be opposed.
Yeah, I agree with you.
There is a very good basis for a federal versus state case.
There's a lot of constitutionalities that are being violated in the way that this was mandated.
They really did sneak this in, Scott.
This bill was passed unanimously because it was a Trojan horse in tsunami relief and supplemental war income.
Yes, that's how it got done.
The tsunami relief?
Yeah.
That's a pretty cynical move right there, isn't it?
Yeah.
I think that shows a guilty conscience on the part of the people who were trying to get it ran through.
I knew that there would be opposition, but there are people drowning.
What are you going to do?
Let them all drown?
No, but they just scooted that one right in.
Like anybody was going to be looking, they're like, tsunami relief, help, help.
What exactly is your campaign doing here in Texas?
What are you up to?
You're going after the Texas Homeland Security Department, trying to do what?
We're dealing with the DHS.
There's going to be a Senate Transportation and Homeland Security Committee meeting in El Paso on July 9th.
That's why they put the Capitol in Austin, so everybody could get here from different parts of the state.
I guess that's why they put this thing in El Paso, so that we can't.
That's a very good point, Scott.
What El Paso is, is their idea of a midway point for people who need to represent their immigration issues at the border.
I know that Sierra Club, other environmental groups, Border Wall Coalition, have plans to be there to represent what's going on with them at the border wall.
The Real ID Act of 2005 has a section, section 102C, and that's what gives the permission slip to put the border wall fence up.
If people decide that they want to kill Real ID in the state of Texas, we don't have a border wall anymore.
There's a lot of grief and debate about who wants the border wall.
The people who want the border wall are probably in Camp Bush and Camp Neocon.
It serves that purpose.
I can't really answer more on that, but I'm saying that the rest of us who are okay with complying with Clean Water Act and, I would say, 36 other federal laws, most of them are environmental.
These laws were waived so that the DHS can put up the fence, and these people have legitimate views.
There's eminent domain issues.
Fifty Texas landowners are being sued by the DHS for temporary access to their land so that they can survey it and try to figure out where their wall goes.
It's causing some major grief.
Yeah.
All right.
How can people get involved if they want to check out, I guess, the website is 511campaign.org.
What would you have them do?
We have a committee meeting on July 6th at Brave New Books, where we'll be taking all kinds of suggestions on how to approach the Senate committee meeting on the 9th.
People are very much encouraged to submit written testimony.
Myself and maybe a couple of other people are planning to go and present written testimony and give public testimony of why Real IDs are really, really bad for Texas.
All right.
That's our end goal.
Cool.
All right, everybody.
It's 511campaign.org to oppose the Real ID nationwide and especially here in Texas.
Sheila Dean, thank you very much for your time today on the show.
Thank you, Scott.