01/18/13 – Matthew Roach – The Scott Horton Show

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Welcome back to the show.
I'm Scott Wharton.
Our next guest is Matthew Roach.
Don't know much about him, but he's a Facebook friend of mine.
Says he knows a lot about the AR-15.
And I want to know about the AR-15.
So welcome to the show, Matthew.
How are you doing?
I'm fine, Scott.
Thanks.
I really appreciate you joining us today.
So you say that this is a hobby of yours.
You just, you like taking apart and putting back together AR-15s and shooting them at targets and such like that, huh?
Sure.
Okay, good deal.
Now, first of all, here's the thing.
I'm the kind of loud mouth who you would think could be wrong on something like this.
But it's the same thing I've been saying since the 1990s.
And I'm totally not a gun guy.
And I have virtually no firsthand experience with any of this stuff.
But it's always seemed to me that assault weapon, as opposed to assault rifle, assault weapon really just means a gun where that if you show a picture of it to a Democrat, they'll be afraid of it.
And that's really the only definition that counts.
Because if, well, they classify an AR-15 rifle as an assault weapon, but it's a semi-automatic rifle.
It doesn't convert to full auto.
It doesn't have a switch for fully automatic fire.
Like, I mean, it looks like an M-16, like in the Vietnam War movies or whatever.
But it's really not one of those, right?
That's correct.
And so, now, an assault rifle, when somebody says assault rifle, they mean what they're saying.
And when they say assault weapon, they don't.
Is that basically how that breaks down?
Well, the two terms, I think, are just interchangeable.
And they're really assault terms, if you ask me.
Because an assault weapon, it has to be something, by definition, it's something that fires more than one shot for every pull of the trigger.
So whether it's select or fully automatic or has a burst function of some kind, it's not an assault weapon, period.
Now, can I go down to Walmart and buy an M-16 or an AK-47 fully automatic rifle?
Absolutely not.
Well, can I order one somewhere or buy one at the gun store?
You can.
But the market for them is very, very tight.
They are extremely expensive.
There are mountains of paperwork to climb over to get to them.
And it's not a walk in the park to get them.
Most people don't want them because they just eat a lot.
Yeah, they waste your ammunition, you mean.
Very badly.
Yeah.
Now, so basically, I guess my understanding is you've pretty much got to be a cop or a myth buster on TV or something like that to have access to fully automatic machine guns.
Not necessarily, but you do have to have a lot of money.
I mean, you know, an M-16, they put restrictions on them in the 80s and, I mean, harsher restrictions, and they weren't allowing any more to be made for purchase that way.
So what you can get today was made back then, essentially.
So the market, I mean, market forces go to work on that and you wind up with a very tight market.
So if you want one, you're going to be spending $20,000 if you want to do it legally.
Now, criminals will just go get one from a black market dealer that's either stolen or illegally made.
Well, they do seem to not even really be in circulation at all, right?
Yeah, you still don't see them anyway, so.
Yeah, we saw the famous bank robbery in Los Angeles where they had AK-47s back in 1990, whatever, right?
Right.
But that's about it for that, right?
You know, when has anybody ever used a fully automatic weapon in a robbery or murder like that?
There was one.
Just to give you some statistics here, there are on the order of about 250,000 fully automatic, legal, privately owned weapons in the United States.
And only one that I know of was ever used in the commission of a crime, and it was an M-16, and it was only brandished.
It wasn't discharged.
Wow, 250,000 of them are in circulation out there.
They're just sitting there in the gun rack where they belong is all.
Yeah, people go shoot them just like they would any other gun.
Can you imagine 250,000 fully automatic rifles, and they don't just jump up and massacre people those things?
They do not.
Now, okay, the first massacre that happened, in my experience, here in Texas, it was here in Texas, in Killeen, the Fort Hood, or it wasn't Fort Hood, it was in Killeen at the Luby's cafeteria.
And it was the guy, some madman, I don't know what he was so mad about, but he drove his truck through the wall of the damn thing and had, I think it was two 9mm handguns with pockets full of clips, and he just started shooting everybody in the place.
And then, of course, there's the famous story of Susanna Hupp, who was in there, reaching a purse for her concealed weapon that her ex-husband had given her as a gift to protect her that she had left home because it was illegal to carry it, and she was afraid to have it with her.
Or maybe it was in her car.
I think it was at her house.
So she reached in her purse and her gun wasn't there, and she was lucky to escape, but both her parents were shot dead that day.
And then she famously, you know, was a radio host and ran for, became a radio host and ran for the Texas State Legislature, and they passed the concealed weapons thing.
This is actually how George W. Bush became the governor.
Ann Richards would have won.
Everybody loved Ann Richards, I can't tell you why, don't ask me that.
But she vetoed the concealed carry bill twice, and Bush promised to sign it, and the Texans threw her out.
Simple as that.
That's how she inflicted George W. Bush on the world, was her refusal to allow the people of Texas to carry concealed handguns.
Yeah, it was a massive fail.
Big time.
And anyways, so now, in AR-15, I saw a thing a friend posted on the page there, on my Facebook page, a video of, it's actually a California policeman and firearms expert, and he basically takes off the cosmetic parts of the AR-15 and interchanges them with just this kind of wooden stock, so it doesn't have the pistol grip anymore, and it looks more like an old man's hunting rifle or something like that, something you'd see in the back window of a truck.
Doesn't look anything like an M-16 anymore, but it's the very same rifle, it's only the cosmetic parts on the outside that have changed.
I mean, that's enough to, I can see why that's good salesmanship for the rifle companies, right?
But then it ends up scaring the hell out of a lot of Democrats, and you know what they think?
If they got 52% as scared as them, they can do whatever they want with that fear.
That's true.
But, so do, I basically, I really do understand that right, that an AR-15, which looks so much like one of these Vietnam rifles, is really just the same old hunting rifle kind of a thing.
Well, I mean, it can be used for a lot of things.
I mean, you can use it for hunting, I use an AR-15 for coyotes, small game, furriers, things like that, for bears, but you could use it for deer, a lot of people frown on that, but it's possible.
And you can protect your house with it.
There is the small matter of overpenetration in a house, if you ask me, with certain rounds of .223, but there are frangible rounds available too, which basically turn into powder as soon as they hit a wall or anything hard.
So they will serve the purpose of defense in a house if you want it to.
I mean, it's a very, it's an extremely versatile rifle, and that's why people like it.
Well, you know, it's funny, to even bring up this guy, Pierce Morgan, it's the argument ad absurdum, but he's a big gun control spokesman on CNN now, this guy.
And he was, you know, of course, his big thing is that this is the rifle that's been using some horrible massacres, and recently, right?
Massacres in a row.
And we're talking horrible, bloody massacres.
Ain't no point in playing that down or anything.
We're talking about absolute nightmares brought to life, right?
And with a freaking Bushmaster.
But then I wonder if that's just a function of the fact that, as I only recently found out, apparently this is the best-selling rifle in America.
Sure.
Is that really right?
I wouldn't, I don't know statistically, but I wouldn't doubt it.
They're fantastic guns.
So, I mean, these things are sold by the millions.
Oh, yeah, I think I heard a statistic, 2007, 2008, when Obama was first coming into office or threatening to, and then shortly thereafter, I think the production numbers were close to half a million right around then.
Which was, of course, people, you know, the fear factor, Obama's known as the best gun salesman of all time.
I mean, people, people run to get guns when they hear about him opening his mouth.
Right.
Anything to do with guns, so.
Yeah.
Well, and that guy, Pierce Morgan, too.
I wonder, you know, how much the two of them appreciate the fact, I sent a tweet to Pierce Morgan saying, admit it, you're a secret false flag agent of the gun lobby.
Very clever of you, pretending to be English and everything.
They paying you by a percentage of the weapons sold or what?
Yeah, you think it's a great accent, don't they?
Yeah, man.
I mean, if I was the NRA, I would be seeing the entire media with Pierce Morgan's everywhere, man.
Absolutely.
And not even the NRA, but just think of, you know, the actual companies that manufacture the thing.
Sure.
They seem to have no appreciation for that fact whatsoever, those guys.
You know, as far as the massacres, the quote unquote massacres go with the AR-15, you know, if you take away the AR-15, which doesn't, you know, it's as senseless as any other gun legislation you've ever seen, people will get something else.
And chances are the next thing they're going to run to, and I don't want to put any ideas on anybody's head, would probably be grandpa's shotgun.
And one squeeze of the trigger on grandpa's shotgun can launch 12 pellets of double op buckshot that's each like a nine millimeter round, one squeeze.
So is that as bad or worse than or not as bad as an AR-15?
Right.
That's even faster than a fully automatic rifle that fires so many.
One shot is 12 shots.
Right.
Boy, you just scared 15 Democrats when you said that.
Good.
I mean, I hope I just spoke logic into their ear, you know, if that works on them.
Yeah, well, you know, again, it really does just come down to the fact that it really looks like the machine guns in the movies.
And so that's what's so scary.
But now, so, I mean, is there a sense in which it actually really is the most effective weapon for a massacre, for a mass murderer, that this has special advantages in those situations for them?
I can't imagine anybody.
It takes quite a bit of skill.
If you want to see what kind of skill it takes, you can go on YouTube and look at a three gun match and watch the guys in their skill level and try to think how long they've practiced to achieve that skill level.
I can't imagine going into a crowded building and getting those kind of hits.
I can't imagine having that kind of hit ratio.
You know, it seems almost possible if they had a shotgun, like I said.
That's one thing, because you just kind of point it in an area and it goes into a cloud.
But with a single bullet firing each time, it's quite a feat.
Yeah, I'm not sure if these numbers are right, but the president said the other day in his speech that the Aurora Batman movie theater shooting guy fired 70 something shots from his AR-15, killed 12.
So that sounds like he is firing from the hip in a crowded theater, the proverbial crowded theater, and 12 dead from that gun.
I don't know if that was his total or just from that rifle or whatever, but anyway, it does go to show, I guess, that it's not some foolproof thing for mass murderers, especially designed for mass murder as Piers Morgan would probably like to have it.
No, they're fear-mongering, period.
Well, now, so here's the thing, too, man, is if you're telling me it used to be at least a half a million of these things and probably there's been, you know, makes sense.
That's 2007, 2008.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, way back then, that there must be millions of these, that they're at least near best-selling rifle in America.
Then I guess, you know, the new assault weapons ban, if they pass a new assault weapons ban, it's not going to criminalize everybody already has one, right?
But it is going to make them all suspects as far as, well, how long have you owned that thing and do you have all your proper paperwork for it and all of this kind of thing.
Is that about right?
Well, I'll tell you, as far as I understand so far, I stand here in New York State right now, surrounded by them, and I, as far as I know, I'm a criminal right now.
You mean they just banned AR-15s in New York with that new set of laws they passed?
Essentially, as far as I can read it, I don't really get what's going on with the AR-15s.
I'm an anarchist, so I honestly don't really care that much, but I understand that if you have a 10-round magazine, you're now allowed to load it to 7 rounds, and if you have 30-round magazines that are from the old days, because you haven't been able to buy those here since 1994, you have to sell those out of state by the end of the year.
Essentially, our AR-15, our standard AR-15, has been neutered to the point of uselessness.
Which, in other words, they really just in one fell swoop criminalized just the ownership, just the property ownership of these rifles by at least, what, tens of thousands of New Yorkers?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
There's actually, people don't realize that there are actually a lot of AR-15s in New York state, and nobody ever gets killed with them here.
It's a very populous state.
It is, yeah.
We have 17 million people in New York state, I think, something like that.
It's amazing.
But 11 of them are downstate, so.
You know, again, this isn't my hobby.
You know, I don't mind.
I'd feel better having you live next door, probably, but this isn't my thing.
But it's just amazing to me the lack of imagination that people put to their policy proposals.
You know, some demagogue says, boy, we sure do need to get rid of these things.
And somebody else responds to that.
You know, Joe Sixpack out here, apparently, responds to that.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
Maybe you should.
But without thinking for a minute about what you've just done.
You know, there have been a lot of, just imagine, all of the perfectly open market transactions for AR-15s have resulted in perfectly law-abiding citizens.
You know, as close as anyone can be perfectly within the law in America, where there's 10 million laws.
But these regular plain old law-abiding people who have these rifles in their closets, who now are, you know, half a felon.
You know, they're just, you know, they're basically cocked and loaded, ready to be a victim of the state.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And these are not bad people.
They're just people.
They're just regular people.
Amazing.
All right.
Well, so now is, let's see, somebody wanted, on the Facebook page, had left a question on how easy is it for, I guess, the average man to turn an AR-15 into a fully automatic rifle?
Do you just switch out this thing with that thing and make it in your garage?
No, it's not like the furniture.
The, taking out the guts of an M-16 and trying to put them into an AR-15 won't work.
It takes, you'll need a machine shop, you'll need blueprints, and you'll need to know what you're doing really, really well.
It'll require some milling and some parts that are hard to get.
So, beyond that, there's, that's to literally turn it into a fully automatic rifle.
Beyond that, there's a thing called the Lightning Link, which they used to sell in sporting goods magazines, but they were banned.
And now, they're about the size of a, they're kind of like a big paperclip size, and you just drop it down into your AR-15.
But again, those will require some tooling and know-how in order to make one that will be safe, because if it's wrong, you know, the gun could go off out of battery and exploding your hand and just kill you or whatever.
So, when you're making a Lightning Link, you better know what you're doing.
And the ones that exist today are all registered in and of themselves as a machine gun with the government.
So, even a Lightning Link, they're extremely expensive if you can find one for sale, and you have to go through the same hoops to get one that you have to go through to get a fully automatic weapon, because the government considers it a fully automatic weapon.
So, there is the Lightning Link thing.
Very hard to get.
Very expensive.
Just same as a gun.
Just same as a full auto.
And now, someone else on my Facebook page said the other day, he said, well, never mind all this fancy 21st century 3D printing and everything, or at least you don't need that.
All you need to make your own high-capacity magazine, all one would need to make their own high-capacity magazine would be some sheet metal and some metal scissors and a hammer and a little spring.
In other words, anyone can make their own high-capacity magazines.
In fact, they can make them all day long.
I'd like to see that.
No?
No.
Again, if you had a machine shop and you had metal breaks and sheet metal presses and whatever else, I'm not a metal or a machinist, but that's what it would require.
You can't just go popping out mags.
I mean, I've had AR-15 mags that didn't work because they were slightly out of dimension.
Somebody stepped on them five years ago, and they just got a little bit tweaked, so they stopped feeding.
I see.
So, they really do have to be machined to perfection there.
They have to be.
There's tolerances.
I'll say that.
All right.
Now, I wonder if we did find in our discussion here an argument for those on the side of those who would ban these guns, which is that if you ban them, they will mostly dry up, and that was the reference to the machine guns earlier.
Although, no, I guess you said there are hundreds of thousands of them still out there.
So, no, I guess there was that.
I was trying to find a devil's argument point to make, but no, I blew it up myself.
It's no good.
Sorry.
Damn.
Yeah, I didn't even give you a chance really to shoot it down.
I couldn't even finish the thought myself without realizing how bogus it was.
All right.
Well, geez, I don't know.
What else is there to say other than, I don't know, politics-wise, do you have an opinion on the likelihood of this thing getting passed by, say, for example, the Republican House?
Well, the Republicans haven't acted very Republican for a while, so I'm not going to put a whole lot of faith in them.
I know that there seems to be some resistance even on the left, though, so from what I understand, it looks like it doesn't stand a snowball's chance.
Well, good news.
That's the best news I've heard all day.
Thank you very much for your time, Matthew.
It doesn't seem to be happening on a state level.
Like I said, we just got completely subdued in New York State.
I consider myself to live in a foreign country right now.
Yeah.
Well, there's some pushback the other way by some of the other states, too, so we'll keep our eye on it.
Thanks so much for your time.
I really appreciate it.
You got it.
Have a good day.
All right, everybody.
That was Matthew Roach.
He's an AR-15 hobbyist from New York State.
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