All right y'all welcome back to the show I'm Scott Horton Scott Horton org is the website got all my interview archives there for you More than 2,500 going back to 2003 Our first guest on the show today is Thomas C Mountain He is the most widely distributed independent journalist in Africa living and reporting from Eritrea since 2006 His interviews can be seen on RT and press TV.
You can be reached at Thomas C. Mountain.
Yeah, right Welcome to show Thomas.
How are you doing?
Fine, thanks Well good.
I'm very happy to have you here so these are the The last days of the dictatorship of Melis and Ali in Ethiopia.
Is that right?
Yes, you know some of your your listeners might not be that familiar with what's you know, just the East Africa in general We're talking about the Horn of Africa here If you it's the east coast of Africa starting on the Red Sea going down into the Indian Ocean starts in Sudan south of Egypt and extends from Eritrea where I live to the very tip of the Horn of Africa with Djibouti a de facto u.s Colony south of that Somalia and some people consider Kenya to be part of the Horn of Africa to the interior is Ethiopia across the Red Sea is Yemen which is on the Arab Arabian Peninsula now Geopolitically a lot of people, you know Don't realize how in the last five years the Horn of Africa has become one of the most critically strategic regions in the world People especially in the West don't realize that there's been a major shift in geopolitics the largest trading partners in the world are no longer Asia and North America Today the largest trading partners in the world is Asia and Europe Now all of that trade between Asia and Europe as well as all the westbound energy the oil and natural gas in the Persian Gulf Has to pass through one two critical choke point The first is the Suez Canal Guarded by a mercenary Egyptian army paid by 1.5 billion the US dollars every year and the second Strategically critical choke point is the Baab al-Mandeb the straits between the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean so in other words who controls the Red Sea the Baab al-Mandeb and the Suez Canal Controls the major trade in the world between Asia and Europe now This is all taking place in the last five years So if the United States has got the Egyptian military there to take care of Suez Canal who's taking care of?the Baab al-Mandeb and the Opening between the Red Sea and Indian Ocean now u.s.
Foreign policy is based upon using a local policeman on the beat a Gendarme a local enforcer to do the dirty work of the United States And so the United States can hold up his hands and say look to the world our hands are clean These do somebody else's doing all these nasty things now the United States uses Colombia and South America as its local Policeman on the beat in West Africa.
It's Nigeria in the Middle East.
It's Israel and in East Africa.
It's mainly been Ethiopia People don't realize that the largest recipient of foreign aid in the world mainly Western aid is Ethiopia over seven billion dollars a year is given to Ethiopia and foreign aid mainly Western aid That's more than the number two and three ranked aid recipients Egypt and Israel and then Egypt combined So here we have this huge aid Recipient which nobody knows about which also has at least numerically the largest and in inventory the best equipped army in Africa Now this is the u.s.
Enforcer on the beat.
They're the ones that were sent to invade Eritrea in 2000-1998 to 2000 but they were defeated They were sent by the u.s.
To invade Somalia and destroy the first chance the real first peace in Somalia in 2006 drive the Islamic Union Islamic courts of power and throw, you know Southern Central Somalia back in the cast again Well, and they were defeated pretty much driven out Somalia to in any case the head of Ethiopia is one Melissa Nali a former Marxist guerrilla who is became through basically murdering all of his potential rivals the new dictator of Ethiopia in 1991 when the Mengistu Soviet-backed Mengistu regime was ousted by the Eritrean rebels okay, so you've got a u.s.
Supported and funded dictator in power in Ethiopia somebody that's eliminated all his potential rivals the United States has built up his big military, but much of the best of the military was destroyed and Just wiped out in invading Eritrea in 2000 the Ethiopian government admitted losing a hundred and twenty three thousand dead in The six-week period in 2000 that was the best the cream of their military a hundred and twenty six thousand dead And then they invaded Somalia and lost another 30,000 So they supposedly been out of Somalia, but not really so the Ethiopia has been in pretty You know, they've lost much of their military the economy is almost completely a dependent and You know, they're one of the poorest countries in the world It's something like 80% of the country doesn't even have electricity forget about clean drinking water hospital schools I think their literacy rate is something over two-thirds They still have polio in Ethiopia one of the very few countries in the world and yet they're receiving seven billion a year So what does the u.s.
Get for that?
They get control of the horn of Africa or the majority of the world's trade is now passing through Okay, but Melissino is now reported to be in a coma.
It's been out of action for two months So what does that lead?
You know, I'm saying what do you viewers think is going to happen next?
Well, obviously the CIA is trying to figure out who they're going to put in there next but I guess you're saying it's going to be really hard for them to keep the state together after he goes because of the way he You know weeded out anyone who could have challenged him That's right And see the thing is a lot of people don't know that one of the most powerful Women in the United States and in the world is also one of the most secret.
Her name is Gail Smith She has an office in the Obama office She has an office in the Obama White House She's this Obama senior foreign policy advisor on Africa and foreign aid she was formerly the head of the African Department in the National Security Council of the United States under Bill Clinton headed by National Security Advisor Anthony Lake who was Barack Obama's senior foreign policy advisor before the election and She Gail Smith Tony Lake Susan Rice and Samantha Powers was this this kind of axis of evil within the pre-election outfit of Obama Interestingly enough Anthony Lake who was one time Nominated to head the CIA by Bill Clinton and had to withdraw his nomination due to corruption charges is now direct executive director of UNICEF, well, he's the guy that ran the Somalia war for Clinton back in 1993, right?
I Remember there's a great quote of a father of one of the dead Army Rangers from the Blackhawk down incident Says he got a chance to meet Bill Clinton and he said so wait a minute Let me get this straight You had an arrest warrant out for a deed and you were going to execute it and that was you know My son was sent to go and get him right and Bill Clinton says yeah and he says but you also had a peace negotiation open and He you were scheduled to meet with him for some negotiation right at the same time and Bill Clinton says yeah and the father says then why are you sending my son to go and get killed trying to nab a guy that you're trying to Have a peace negotiation with and then this is the father's court.
I'll never forget was on PBS frontline He says Bill Clinton looked at me with the most blank look I've ever seen on a man's face And he said he kind of murmured Well, I asked Tony Lake the same question That was the end of that anyway, right funny anecdote when he Lake is the head of UNICEF This is the failed head of CIA and now he's the head of UNICEF the largest children's charity aid in the world Any case so Gail Smith was Tony Lake's right-hand woman now She's sitting in the White House right next to Obama senior foreign policy not advisor not only on Africa but on foreign aid Gail Smith started her career in the Horn of Africa supposedly as a journalist from the late 1970s until 1991 she was quote-unquote a journalist in the Horn of Africa and three years later in 1994 she becomes chief of staff at the US Agency for International Development From being an award-winning journalist to being the chief operating officer of a multi-billion dollar aid agency in three years Hey as long as she has bad policies to recommend that's a ticket to promotion I'm sorry.
We have to hold it right here and go out to this break.
We're talking with Thomas Mountain Writing this time for counterpunch Ethiopian regime crumbles enters CIA more important East African politics right after this All right, y'all welcome back I'm Scott Horton Scott Horton org his website Talking with Thomas Mountain from counterpunch org.
Well, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that Well right in this time for counterpunch org guess apparently writes all over the place All right.
This one is called Ethiopian regime crumbles enter CIA.
So we're talking about Mellis is a Na'vi and Well and the American Empire's agenda in East Africa and he's been our local sock puppet dictator pushing everybody around most importantly as you mentioned Thomas the proxy war the invasion of Somalia in 2006 and now again, I guess starting late last year and then I wanted this is just a detail one follow-up I wanted to to get to real quick about some of the things you said was did I have it, right?
That you said that the Ethiopian invasion of Eritrea From back in what the very early 2000s that that was an American proxy war as well Yes, that was I mean Ethiopia doesn't they depend entirely upon Western aid mainly from the u.s Mm-hmm So if they how could they pay for this war?
They they're in the middle at the time when they actually in physically invaded Eritrea in June of 2000 May in June of 2000 They were in the midst of a big drought and famine.
They had millions of people starving So who's paying for this war who's paying for this military?you know I'm saying it's all being paid by the West and run by the United States and It's in this case what's going on now in Ethiopia is being run out of the Clint out of the Obama White House I said Clinton White House and nobody the name they're familiar the Obama White House by a woman named Gail Smith who started a career in the Horn of Africa as a mistress to a guerrilla fighter and in a Marxist Leninist guerrilla Outfit called the Tigray People's Liberation Front and they were fighting at the time for independence for the Ethiopian province of Tigray Which is on the border of Eritrea now?
Eritrea ended up driving out the Melissinau regime from power in 91 militarily literally invaded and captured Addis Ababa and chased Melissinau I mean Mengistu out and left went back to Eritrea and left in effect the de facto control of Ethiopia with the only You know competent armed forces, which was this Tigrayan under Melissinau now Melissinau was like hand-picked by this woman Gail Smith Was the CIA's person on the ground in the Horn of Africa and She ended up pushing him all the way up till he became a g20 Statement now one of the most a dependent countries in the world if not the most a dependent countries is an economically acceptable figure to come in and Represent Africa at a g20 now the problem is Melis like I said he's been ruthless He's eliminated all his potential rivals.
He knows all too Well he saw the fate of hosting Mubarak in Egypt were for 30 years He was a loyal lackey for the United States and literally overnight the Americans dumped him Okay, so he knows that the Americans could get rid of him So he made sure that there wasn't anybody else to replace him But now he's reported to be in a coma and he's been out of missing in action for two months now The Americans really don't have anybody to replace him He himself has grown so increasingly paranoid that he's is basically turned most of the important decisions and all the Ethiopian ministries of power over to CIA people Ethiopians themselves have been complaining bitterly some of the elite bureaucrats have been saying we can't make any decisions We have to go see the Americans for any important decisions and Americans have been paying his the Ethiopian salary to the Ethiopian army Directly now for some years like they do in South Sudan Americans pay the South Sudanese army since 2009 Don't pay the army salaries directly we found that out from WikiLeaks And now we've confirmed that they've been paying the Americans have been paying the Ethiopian army salary directly In other words, they don't even turn over the Ethiopian government.
They turn the money directly over to the army officers Okay, so the CIA has been running the country malice is in a coma who's going to take over now?we can't confirm that malice is in a coma, but What does really goodly give us very strong reason to believe it is the fact that the even voice of America has announced that?
The US government is approaching opposition figures in Ethiopia and outside and Saying that malice is quote unquote sick and that they want to form a transitional government until the next elections in 2015 now so the thing is Ethiopia is an empire Basically was created in the 1880s by the British and the French because they're worried about the Italian the new Italian Colonialists were coming into East Africa and taking up what the British and the French hadn't wanted Which was basically a retreat in Somalia and the Italians eventually invaded and took Ethiopia but the British and the French set up Haile Selassie's grandfather Menelik as the king of Ethiopia and Gave him a whole bunch of people to rule that didn't ever want to be in Ethiopia.
For example About half of Somalia is part of Ethiopia It's called the Ogaden and these are people that have been fighting being part of Ethiopia for a hundred years literally armed fighting against the Ethiopian rule Ethiopia's got people in the West called the Anawak in the Gambela region sitting on about a billion barrels of oil There's more oil in the Anawak region of Ethiopia than there is in South Sudan Everybody's talking about how much oil there is in South Sudan So the Anawak want independence of the people called the Oromo who actually are make up more than half of Ethiopia some 40 over 40 million people Are asking for independence?so, you know Ethiopia if it is on the verge of actually dismembering and splitting up and actually several countries are breaking off and forming their own countries and You know The whole world is sitting back that only if they think about Ethiopia as being where people are starving and you know they don't realize that Ethiopia is supposed to be enforcing Pax Americana and the Horn of Africa and Protecting Americans military control because America is now a second-rate economic power Okay China has surpassed America and the major trading partners in the world is no longer United States of America and in Asia It's Asia and Europe Okay, so in Europe headed by Germany and Asia headed by China That's the main trading partners in the world America can't compete economically anymore with them But America still has the premier military force America has to make sure that as long as they've got control Militarily of the of the trade between China and Asia and Europe America is still the number one superpower in the world the day the u.s.
Loses control of that trade route the Suez Canal and through the Horn of Africa date marks the day that the beginning of the end of the US Empire in the world and Who understands this I'm saying world they know they think of the Horn of Africa starving Somali starving Ethiopians Pirates in their Indian Ocean, they don't see all this massive geopolitical changes developed in the last five years So, I mean, I'm out here kind of the voice in the wilderness trying to bring that to people's attention And it's only people like yourself and other you know People that are really speaking truth the power in the world that are bringing this up You know these facts out to the Western media They appear American people have no clue that the very highest levels of the White House They are aware of the strategic importance of the Horn of Africa whether you and I are not You know, you know Obama's turning every day when he comes to work One of the first persons he sits down and talks to is Gail Smith his girl his woman for Africa, right?
So well, you know and there from time to time there are things like the LA Times had a piece last week or maybe week before last about Really it added to my knowledge about just you know, the extent of America's involvement Currently there and I don't just mean money but You know actual CIA and JSOC on the ground in in great numbers there in Somalia killing people and directing the killing of people and So we do have that kind of thing from time to time, but it's just not incorporated into the common narrative You know, it's not a jeopardy question It's not on TV, there's no references to it on everybody's favorite sitcom that like well, you know We're still butchering those old Somalis or where it's just it's So the the facts are there if you're looking you can find them from time to time, but it the story doesn't change Let me throw something else in the mix here the American naval base that controls the Persian Gulf and all that Strategically critical oil is based in Bahrain and the Bahrain people are demanding, you know to get rid of this corrupt and brutal regime That was imposed upon them right and if they did the protests are not going away Now if the u.s.
Loses, you know If the Bahrain regime falls there's a good the Bahrain people know who is supporting that regime is United States They want the US military naval base out of Bahrain now if Americans get kicked out of Bahrain, where are they gonna go?
Where they're gonna put their naval base the backup plan is to a booty in the Horn of Africa And see that's why there's been Been you've been long plans since Africam was first start talked about and set up after September 11th in 2001 They never had a place they could really call home Nobody that no African countries any strategic importance that allow Africam to come in and set up a base So, you know, they went to Djibouti Which is what a little bitty Mickey Mouse country of half a million people and made them an offer They can't refuse and now that Americans have got a base there now the Americans had a problem with the retreans because the retrean military controlled the highlands overlooking Djibouti and the whole new base was Potentially a long-range artillery fire the retreant that shut the whole base down I wrote an article about this a couple years back But now there's been a deal worked out with it, but Americans apparently think they can set their base up there They're talking about going ahead with what was originally proposed as a six billion dollar military naval facility in Djibouti And this is I think they're going ahead crab-lemon year right now There for just a second Thomas We're about to come up on this next break and I just want to make sure that I can See if I can keep you for one more segment Because there's there's still so many more follow-up questions.
I haven't had a chance to get to yet Okay.
Now the problem is too It's we won't be back till six minutes after the hour and it sure is expensive to call Eritrea However, you say it so I'm gonna call you back in about five minutes.
That's all right with you All right.
Thanks.
We'll be right back everybody with Thomas Mountain from counterpunch from retreat right after this All right, y'all welcome back to the show I'm Scott Horton Scott Horton org is my website And I'm on Facebook and Twitter slash Scott Horton show I'm talking with Thomas Mountain Writing for counterpunch Ethiopian regime crumbles enter CIA and so I forget exactly where we were But what I want to ask you about and you can go back to what you want to say Whatever you want to say, but what I wanted to ask here to I guess go back to was When you talked about how Ethiopia, of course Was just a fake country drawn by European imperialists in the first place and since this dictator Melissa Na'vi Has done so much to strip the government bear of anyone who could possibly depose him There's not much of it there to live on once he dies and that You think it's I think the way you write it in in the article It's basically a sure thing that Ethiopia is going to come apart and I wonder whether you think there's a chance that that could happen in a relatively peaceful fashion or is this going to be just a complete bloodbath and Nightmare, what's going to happen when it when the country finally does come apart, you know Oftentimes people feel like they're stuck on the wrong side of the line from this tribe or that Ethnicity that kind of thing like in the Balkans, of course Well, you know, you know, we were we're talking about the Horn of Africa, which is kind of a remote Seemingly unimportant place by most especially American standards, right?
So, you know, but like I was saying that Most people don't realize that the major trading shift in the world is taking place that now Europe and Asia the number one trading partners and some 60 or more percent of the world's trade passes not only to the Suez Canal But to the Horn of Africa Melissinawi the president of the prime minister of Ethiopia was supposed to safeguard that US interest and now he's in a coma reportedly and And what's going to follow up, you know, I'd mentioned that the United States has a problem in Bahrain with their with the Bahrain Uprising and the long-term presence of the US naval base, which is, you know Major importance the United States controlling the Persian Gulf is becoming increasingly problematic What's the US fallback position if they get kicked out of Bahrain if there's an uprising and the Bahrain regime gets kicked out in the Bahraini People say us leave Bahrain where they're going to go You know I'm saying and this whole area of the world is now more important really to the United States interest Then what's really going on within the United States?
In other words, the US is now a second-rate economic power.
Its industry has been gutted and chipped overseas Now the United States only has their military to control the world and if they can't control the Horn of Africa Then why should the rest of the world have any fear or respect or pay any homage to the United States at all?
Well sure, but I mean they can send in all the Marines they want They're not going to be able to hold the state of Ethiopia together if that's what they want.
That's right But the thing is they're looking at Djibouti right on the tip of the Horn of Africa Well, right is the word not the tip of the Horn of Africa where the Red Sea enters Connects to the Indian Ocean and they're looking at Djibouti as being their next their fallback position You know, they had originally had a six billion dollar plan there Now there seems like they're starting to re-implement that plan Camp Lemonaire Which is now home to a very active drone base and a lot of death squads And a lot of death squads and other nasty activity is scheduled to go from 90 acres to 500 acres With an annual budget running about 300 million a year up to something like 2 billion dollars a year You know and it's happening as we speak right?
Engineers are there looking and seeing if they can build a big naval base there All kinds of things are going on in the Horn of Africa Because it's de facto whether they say so or not it's a de facto plan Because it's it's de facto whether they say so or not It's a de facto headquarters for the African command for the United States And it's the only place they've got So Ethiopia is basically Djibouti has basically historically been a province of Ethiopia Ethiopia's port now main port where they get 90 percent of the imports is in Djibouti So Ethiopia and Djibouti are joined at the hip The United States wants to build this big base in Djibouti The Ethiopian presidents in a coma they got no one to replace them Their army is little more than a militia It's been pretty much wiped out in invading Eritrea and Somalia And you know the army's run by a remnant of an officer corps That once were loyal to Melissinawi He's purged most of the top people Well they're in Somalia right now aren't they?
Well they've been back and forth in Somalia There's been some serious fighting recently They never really left all of Somalia They've built major Ethiopian bases in what's called Puntland And I've had articles about how the pirates in Somalia The Somali pirates are mainly from Puntland And they're paying the reason they've never really been Seriously attacked in a consistent way In their home bases and their pirate lairs Is because they pay off the Ethiopians And the Ethiopians tell these international navies You can't touch these guys because they've paid us off Okay because how come they haven't gone in?
How come there's been not one single drone attack That blown up a pirate den after they've collected their loot?
That's a question nobody ever asks Okay I'm the only one that's written about this Any case there's a lot of conflict There's a lot of things going on in the Horn of Africa A lot of people don't think it's really important But it's getting to be a crisis now And it's something they can no longer hide You know if Melissino really is in a coma And there's no one to replace him And the thing is there is major rebel armies in Ethiopia That's the next thing I'll be writing about Is about how the Ethiopian rebel army threatens regime There's a major Ethiopian rebel army Of some several divisions That's well armed and equipped And about to go and take out us Obama kicked Americans out But this is going to be a game changer And like you said Americans can't really put enough boots on the ground To ever save Ethiopia And by the time the remnants of the Melissino regime Are kicked out by this rebel army It'll be too late for the U.S. to get their aircraft carrier fleet One of the aircraft carrier fleets now Which they are so concerned about With the problems with Iran And the potential closure of the Straits of Hormuz by Iran They'll have to take some of that naval force And move it to the Horn of Africa It takes them over a week to get there To get mobilized and change and get there By then this regime change in Ethiopia could take place And a new independent nationalist anti-American government Will be in place in Ethiopia And America is going to be in deep doo-doo So in any case that's sort of what's about to happen You're saying this army has how many men?
Well at this point I'm going to write about it But I'm still confirming certain facts So what I'm just saying is that it's a very large army I mean I'm not talking about 5,000 So you're thinking that when the state falls That when Zinawi finally dies If it's true he's in a coma and all that like they say And his state falls This will be the new state that replaces him It won't break apart into warring factions This will be the new strongman No because the deal in this rebel army That no there is going to be The rebel army is a united front Of the different ethnic groups in Ethiopia And so the deal is that they're all united here together To go in and kick out Melissinawi And then they're going to go back home And build their own new countries Well I guess that means a little bit of relief For the people of Somalia then Who you know the Americans keep paying Ethiopians to kill The thing is right now the biggest problem Somalia's facing Is from the African Union I mean there's like 15,000 Ugandan troops there And see but you know I'm about to come out with another article about Is Kenya headed for a civil war Because Kenya's maybe blew up before Ethiopia Kenya's going to have an election It's already been postponed once Kenya's supposed to have a The last election though The ethnic violence broke out With a couple thousand dead And hundreds of thousands ethnically cleansed This next election They're not going to be killing each other With knives called pangas They've been buying arms in Somalia And they're going to be killing The ethnic warfare is going to explode Around the election And they could end up Making Kenya the northern The highlands part of Kenya in a civil war And people don't realize There's a very large strong Ongoing independence movement On the coast among the Muslim population in Kenya Based in Mombasa Who've been marginalized for so many years And that they're fed up with it all So I mean Kenya's another powder keg about to go off So you know what I'm saying is that People think everything's fine Because they watch CNN or Fox News They don't realize that in the real world Out here in the heart of Africa You know there's like a powder keg About to go off Well you know General Ham The head of AFRICOM Has said before that Hey you know Al-Qaeda fighters in Libya And Al-Qaeda-ish fighters in Somalia Why they're a good enough excuse Let's pretend that they're the reason We're going to begin In intervening in Africa now And I don't know why this would be any different You know let Kenya and Ethiopia fall apart It's just a great new reason to increase The army presence Whereas before it was limited more to the Air Force Or the Navy You know don't make hay out of it They're going to have to put a naval fleet in Djibouti Because they're too strategic for the U.S.
They can't just let the region fall to Real genuine nationalist independent forces For example like here in Eritrea Eritrea won't kneel down to the United States So the United States has forced sanctions Against Eritrea Yeah Hillary threatens them all the time I'm sorry we got to go I just I'll go bankrupt We talk any longer Thomas C. Mountain Counterpunch.org Thank you so much for your time Appreciate it Take care
