11/07/07 – Tim Dickinson – The Scott Horton Show

All right, my friends, welcome back to the show, Antiwar Radio.
I'm Scott Horton.
It's D.C. runs Rolling Stone's blog, National Affairs Daily.
Welcome to the show.
So listen, so listen uh... this uh... this article that you wrote uh... recently for rolling stone just uh... knock my socks off bushes lap dogs what happened to dcs watch dogs and i remember in the news just couple weeks ago there was a general who uh... i guess he wasn't an inspector general but you know that specific office but it was uh... internal affairs type situation the department of defense and uh... this general found himself under investigation for basically doing the right thing and then it was just two days later something that the story came out about the inspector general of the ci a and how general hayden and then we're going after him for doing uh... exactly what his job is to do to find out whether ci agents are breaking the law and torturing people in their secret prisons well i would step back and talk about what inspector general is and after watergate there was a uh... a real cry for for congressional oversight of the executive branch so they installed uh... twenty nine of these people and everything from uh... nasa uh...department of to you know just about any executive agency you can think of and they're bad to be our eyes and ears there in the in the executive branch people who are not uh... subject to that the uh... claims of executive privilege and and the rest of the people are supposed to report to congress and tell us what's going on and and audit programs and and ferret out wrongdoing and all kinds of abuses and so this guy at ci a john helgerson was doing exactly what he was supposed to do uh... under the law which was the investigate the legality of of ci a secret program think he was uh...it particular looking into um...torture at the p at the ci secret prison and and perfect and i think some of the the legal decisions that had had uh...given that the stamp of approval of the bush administration and that was clearly not what the president wanted and so that the uh...he and uh... his ci eight chief started uh... investigative unit uh... to go after this guy to further than investigate the inspector general though uh... it's really unprecedented and and uh... quite chilling uh... chilling maneuver to avoid uh... these problems of independent vectors tell the president has done a very good job of stocking these posts with uh... cronies people like daughter of the chief justice sir uh... special assistant to fred thompson or chief uh...chief counsel to newt gingrich all these all these uh... people who would be better suited for work at a new conservative think tank okay now uh... if i can play chinese advocate for just a second or taking account the fact or taking into account the fact as you say that a lot of these people are political appointees and cronies really have no business uh... in that position uh... are you certain that this guy uh...john helgerson at the ci a that he's not actually you know criminal and that they're doing the right thing in investigating him uh... i mean i you know obviously i think the i've got uh...got its own inner workings but it's clear that this guy has ruffled a lot of feathers and that's the job of inspector general right the job of inspector general to sort of be the discount picnic the guy who question whether the bosses are doing the right thing and and so and but i mean it has been the constant uh... constantly subjected to harassment he was uh... forced to to uh... take uh... polygraph test uh... after the washington post third reporting on the ci secret prison to prove that he wasn't uh... the source for that and i i believe that he passed uh... yet that i don't i don't know that anyone who's really has really uh...justified this in terms of any wrongdoing that he done it became just a very clear shot across the bow at his independence in trying to trying to clamp down on someone who's been a politically inconvenient for the administration now obviously that's what it seems like a distant was wondering whether they were i mean any real allegations against this you know i did to my to my knowledge and i i i'd you know again that the day uh... you know working cannot uh...that's something that i'm really pretty cuba directed by all by all practical that there's no there's no indication of this person anything but uh... an effective public servant has done his job uh... really quite extraordinary well especially active in the company keep that among the inspectors general and and this guy helgerson who is he do you know about his background is he a bureaucrat who's hired for uh... you know purely uh...uh... legitimate reasons for his expertise or is he a political appointee justin he was appointed by bush and i i believe that the he more than uh...i'm forgetting that the exact details of the point that i thought that sometimes the fact since i was with the going over his bio but he he was a career a career guy ci three sort of not them the cronies of the cronies as you would you would think about somebody like janet rehnquist to with the health and human services uh... inspector general uh... who is that probably the daughter of the former chief justice well won't you tell us about her story uh... but she's she's a season interesting once you kept a a loaded gun at her desk and uh...she delayed an audit of uh...embarrassing uh... audited the florida pension system in response to request by the jeb bush administration though to health and human services does all sorts of audits of big look after medicare and they they have the role in the state pension systems i guess and so uh... there was a uh... an audit that was going to show that some i forget how many millions of dollars hundreds of millions of shortfall in the pension system jeb bush someone who used to be dictating personal assistant contacted her and said hey would you would you would you not put this out until after my reelection and she did it uh... now nice but not that the general accounting office them the general accountability office go after her and they they had did a report that they put down that she compromised her independent the independent proposed she settled in a medicare fraud uh... cases for pennies on the dollar uh...the receipt yet she put that help to help human services has a huge multi-billion dollar budget second i think only the but department of defense she spoke helped her that way fraud and abuse and sort of receipts for settlement under medicare fraud cases dropped dramatically under her tenure it's almost like the republicans get elected just uh...absolutely loot every penny they can out of the treasury and then go for a while i would you know i don't i don't know about that but i but i it's uh...certainly that this uh...the case of janet request that i i think that that observation it's uh...it's appropriate well it seems like i kind of just want to go through the list of one of the most uh... i brought raising things is something that i remember reading about this summer and somehow space it out for god i don't think that we've even covered this on the show at all is filipinos slaves brought to iraq at gunpoint and forced to build uh... the new uh... super embassy there in baghdad yet thirty three minutes is this is an unbelievable story and then the allegation into their credible that there were you know workers are are brought into iraq from please like bangladesh in the philippines but to these workers have been brought from the philippines uh... and to i think kuwait an airport in kuwait there were you know transferring through kuwait and they were told they're going to work on hotel work uh... hotel construction dubai uh... but apparently they were rounded up uh... into a plane and then flown to baghdad at gunpoint against their will uh... and then uh... put to work building the u.s. embassy uh... and even just explosive allegations and and and that they seem to be coming from multiple sources and they've been you know the better congressional hearing about that so it's in that i can't say that that that they're true but there's certainly something to be looked at very closely and and if they are true it conscience shocking but the inspector general of the state department who is in charge of overseeing this operation as a guy named uh... howard cookie kroneberg chrome guard he's me uh... who is the uh... brother of alvin buzzy chrome guard who is that the number three deputy at uh...at uh... ci a under george tenet i think well first of all he called up the con the contractor involved and give them something like three or six months advance notice of his visit he went there by himself which is particularly unusual for an investigation of something like that usually a the i g would you know set up a team and they would go and i don't have to have visits and interview whoever they wanted to but uh... as it was uh... mister chrome guard with himself uh... giving the contractor three to six months advance notice he talked to six people who had been hand picked by the company by the the kuwaiti contractor and then talked a couple of people and he kind of he said he took notes on the backs of things it didn't actually that i have people there taking notes for him or have any real method to what he was doing and then he wrote up a summary report for the republican congress saying there's nothing to see here i i don't i don't uh...i don't believe in allegations that something that we've seen that that support them been described by one of the whistleblowers in the case of the cover up so it's and it's hard to see it as anything other than purposely it's hard to see it as uh... as a public servant actually doing his job since i were radio i'm talking with tim dickinson from rolling stone magazine uh... key article is bushes lap dogs at the time i never believed in the inspector general always thought what a joke an internal cop they're gonna hold themselves accountable and what have you but i guess after reading this article something i've learned is that uh...well if you great on a scale they're actually used to be some accountability coming from some of these inspectors general before uh...george bush and it's a corrupted the process so badly even with their efforts to turn the watchdogs in the lap dogs have been people who have uh... the reason to the occasion and and on the work and then uh... some of these people have been fired through the ci guys at the case of that this is karke kent urban who is the uh...the first inspector general for the part of the homeland security uh... and he was a a long time friend of bush is the third under the uh...the first bush administration in the thousand points of light program and he was a a lawyer pal uh... under alberto gonzales in texas with bush and he got appointed and then he actually uh... decided to do his job which was very novel approach for for many of these appointees into restarted and are exposing lapses in airport security and and doing all these things they were very politically inconvenient and and com rid of the homeland security secretary at the time you know call them into what his office urban described as a period of come to jesus meeting and and berated him saying you know why why aren't you on board with that why are you trying to embarrass why are you not coordinating your spin with our press office and and uh... ervin it but it seems to be a man of integrity and just told him that's not my job you could clearly misunderstanding but the role is here uh... and he was uh... promptly fired so it's uh... or i guess he was he was a a recess appointee with somebody who's the bush administration was so here to have in their office that they put in there without uh... congressional approval uh... and then they they after he started doing his job they uh... didn't re-nominate them so it's it's a it's a curious through a case in the end they've been you know some certainly from clinton holdovers who've done extraordinary work this is kinda going fine well wait let me let me let me ask you more about this uh... clark can't version urban yet clark at urban yeah it sounds like he wasn't even really trying to get any one in trouble so much as he was just basically testing the security and and reporting on where there were deficiencies and so i think that and that's the point to do these are are meant to be straight shooter cannot put the p uh... packed arms they're supposed to be people who are doing or trying to keep america safe trying to make sure that the the uh...department they're part of function well into this guy it really took you know it seems to be a real gentleman integrity and and took his job seriously and tried to tried to make sure that part of our security was doing its job to keep america safe and when it wasn't he ran the alarm bells on that which is exactly what he's supposed to do and and as a result he was uh...quickly out of a job well and then we wonder why we read that every time uh... undercover fbi agent attempts to see through a bomber fake bomber gun or whatever on a plane to get away with it eighty something percent of the time right now that was just a l a expert in this seventy five percent of the safe arms in the past and and indeed that there is just an email out uh...that was leaked from transportation security administration that they were giving their screeners uh...like an email heads up that f a a investigator for coming through and and forgive in details about what what the uh... testers were going to be stacks of i d's that they had what kind of techniques they were going to try and used it to test the system and still they're failing i mean it's it's just a joke so i'm gonna hold my argument uh... for free market insecurity and uh... just move on to the next one yes glenn fine you brought up one five at the department justice and and he's there are from the clinton years you say i'm a little unclear to whether he was uh... an eleventh hour clinton appointee or or just the dawn of the bush administration i i i i believe it was a clinton appointee but i was having a conversation with someone that made me believe that he might be about bush guy but in any case he's done an exceptional job of doing doing his job he was the one who exposed the f b i for abusing it's powers under the patriot act spy on average citizens without national security letter national security letters uh...and so he that uh... the signature effort that he did but he's got a lot of as it was explained to me by him by carson i spoke to a lot of trouble that i worked against allah got into it because of going fine because of the work that he did exposing wrongdoing at the department of justice and it illustrates why these people are so important it seems like that it can seem like kind of a wonky world of auditors and investigators but these these people really do help uh... provide a vital check on the beat an abusive executive power now i think uh... honestly the only report of his that i have a red was the unclassified version of his report on the sibelle edmunds case where he said that she was absolutely credible and all our f b i bosses said that what she was saying was the truth and that kind of thing and and that's a big one to take on apparently there are people with power who uh... would rather not hear from sibelle edmunds in public uh... i'm not sure i apologize i don't know who that is oh uh... she was the f b i uh... contract translator who uh... blew the whistle on uh...nuclear black market and bribery at the highest levels of the turkish lobby in the israeli lobby and that kind of food now very interesting case you might want to write about it but i think that and that that the clear cases up here someone do you know taking on things that are clearly politically charged in an environment that that that is is so obviously discouraged right yet again not i'll uh... i'll give uh... glenn fein credit and and in fact the statute that creates this officer a little bit of credit where i used to give them nine used to think the idea of having you know uh... an agency hold itself accountable is just completely laughable but apparently it can be done well and and to keep it a lot of what's possible the uh... the president uh... the guy who oversees all the inspector general this guy clay johnson the third who is uh...president bush's prep school pal from and over and over prep school also his roommate at yale guys the is the overseer of the inspectors general now enough that he he's the one who uh...keep them in line and i keep them in line the it has uh...it he was testifying to congress about the proper relationship between uh... inspectors general in their and their uh... department heads of the collegial one and people can't we through can't we all get along and trend uh...financial things rather than getting into the dinner working that's what is that the of what's going on that's what he said to congress on t-v that this is how it ought to be yeah well that that but that's the say that in public the right i think that uh... and so then he actually had a minute to hear clark and a ribbon talk that he had all the ideas get together and to find a period of principle that sort of amounted to a loyalty or department had that they worked for to say that they were you know sort of on board on the same team rather than then independent and often adversarial uh... roles so it's it's um...it has been a very clear effort to to quash the independence of the at these offices and as one of uh...crew chrome guard uh...investigative deputies that to uh... keep working the bs cases are not rock the boat with more significant investigation let's see i think he said the beginning of about twenty eight or so the site is that you have a very good two levels of them but that the president appointed twenty twenty nine and then can you be saying your article that more than a third of these guys are outright political appointees with no skills only connections well i a third of them uh... according to a house study and had previously worked in a republican white house these are the bush appointees and and under the clinton era there were none that had previous white house political appointee experience uh... and then a few within a fifth of them and the bush era have experiences auditors purses as professional auditors purses two-thirds of them who had them provide that experience in the clinton administration took clearly there's been an effort to politicize and dumbed down in the words of of uh... one of the congressman i talked to uh...politicizing dumbed down the office that it's just did you couldn't be couldn't be more clear you also brought up in the article very briefly stolen rocket technology can you elaborate on that uh... well there's this guy uh... uh... moves cob who is uh... moves cob who is the uh... inspector general at nasa who was hand picked the nasa uh... administrator at the time to become the uh... inspector general which is a clear conflict of interest and obviously not the way the congress intended this happened but bushes sort of allowed his department had hand-picked many of the inspectors general who will be watchdogging them uh... but this guy there was a breach of the nasa servers and something like two billion dollars worth of sensitive released uh... rocket technology the department of defense deemed sensitive was stolen and instead of reporting that uh... helped cover it up help help sort of kosh up this idea that the stuff has been stolen and then when he was pressed on it he said well it wasn't actually stolen because we still have a copy and so uh... that that was uh... enough to drive uh... senator grassley of uh...iowa into conniption fits i mean it was uh... you know that it is that this guy is just that an absolute an absolute joke he uh...to quote his uh...he's at the the council that play johnson heads up that oversees the inspectors general looked into his work and just said that he he deserves to be fired this is the this is the uh...outcome of their investigation and uh... according to testimony of uh...uh... mister cubs who's called the hand-picked assistant but i'll quote that uh... mister cubs arrogance his abusive bullying style absence of managerial experience limited understanding of investigators processes egotism and misplaced ends of self-importance make it impossible for him to successfully manage and lead an organization but this guy still and uh...still there at nasa well you know i've really wish i could remember who was the wrote this in may have been the other style horton over harper's magazine blog uh... it's on the tip of my tongue i just read it last night i think that the bush administration at this point is simply a cover-up machine to keep these people out of prison now there's really nothing more to the administration's policy at this point it said staying out of jail past january oh nine there's some truth to that all right now uh... tell me about this guy joseph schmidt's at the department of defense that was an interesting case yeah i think i mean here's here's sort of the classic classic crony he but he's the uh... the son of a former far far right congressman from california who ran to the right of nixon and in the seventies for president he's actually off of the uh... the brother of mary kayla tourno the uh...the statutory child rape but that's okay neither here nor there but uh...the uh... they just a very you know he was a uh... he worked for the reagan administration with an assistant to newt gingrich within the federal society and just uh...a real connected guy and he had no experiences an auditor or accountant and that he was installed to oversee that depending on after a dollar budget and so when i was great came about he did a better howard krone guard like investigation and came back and said oh this is just a few bad eggs at the lower levels and not as they've subsequently found that sort of metastasis that these torture memos that uh...that were produced in the bush white house and uh...promulgated by by donald rumsfeld and thirty he spent most of his time uh... researching the baron bond let me get this right baron bond frederick bond student who was the uh... george washington's first inspector general for the continental army and he spent several months redesign the logo personally redesigning the logo of the inspector general office include bump bump student family motto which is always under the protection of the almighty or something like that but he was basically spritzing in something around in the uh...in the office and and constantly sort of blocking investigations into uh... rumsfeld deputies there was a uh... the famous boeing contract with the department of defense decide to lease refueling tankers from boeing for something like five billion dollars more than it would have cost to purchase them outright oh yeah i remember and just an incredibly corrupt kind of deal and and uh...congress has go look into it and so he did and he talked to rumsfeld they talked to wolfowitz and then he talked to the white house and after much deliberation who decided not to include any of the testimony from both with thorough rumsfeld felt that that wasn't actually relevant to the case and then he worked with the white house lawyers to black out uh... the names of white house figures who may have been involved in approving the contract and and abetting the the corruption that was going on there so uh... it's just just clear that he was to demo with the help the white house avoid accountability rather than and uh...no push for accountability and department that and now when he wrote this report saying that i'm a great was the results of that eggs was that before after the to do a report you know i i'm not sure the timing on that it was i think this is this is very quickly after the after the uh... fact that he said went there and took a look around at that i like you know i can't figure out why uh... why anyone would think that this this was uh... something we would do you know uh...uh... it was it was it was very much in the in spirit of that at that chrome guard uh... investigation of the kuwaiti embassy it was sort of like okay here's something i believe it's been alleged i can't see that this has anything to do with uh... broader pattern here in this administration without without any formal investigation and that you describe in my spending months and months redesign seal sounds like he has a easier job than me and then now he works for black water right now he is the uh... corporate the c l of uh...at the parent company of black water so daily that that he was he was supposed to be investigating the work of contractors uh... and did a very poor job of that and then took a plum job at the helm upon that major iraq contract so it's it the the the revolving door third affecting their yeah the iron triangle oh and you also say that he was replaced by a guy named claud kick lighter who apparently is just uh... wolfowitz associate and he's a guy who who with his career was certainly advanced by roosevelt maulfield and paid his last his last gig with them overseeing the transition from the coalition provisional authority uh... to the iraq embassy sort of the transformation of one corrupt institution into another step i don't have much to say about him he's he's fairly new on the job but but uh... not something that fires a lot of time content per his resume certainly not well uh...i appreciate your time today everybody again the article is called bushes lap dogs it's in uh... rolling stone and also i wanted to mention i saw that your blog their role in stone national affairs daily that some uh...ron paul and tears have been picking on you in the mail so i wanted to apologize on behalf of them and hope that we can all get along but i i really i really and i i don't agree with a lot of what ron paul said but i i i really uh... appreciate the ron paul phenomenon and i i wish that ron paul supporters could be a little less paranoid about people complimenting them value that you would a little bit of humor because it seems to it seems to fall under fear okay well if you interpret it as an attack god bless ron paul i think he's really important voice to have in the uh... in the debate that well just remember there are a lot of us out here who don't send a email at the drop of every hat we're out there silently uh... laughing at your job in the moving on alright well appreciate all right thanks a lot of time today everybody uh... ten dickinson from rolling stone magazine thanks a lot to care