02/23/12 – Rep. Dennis Kucinich – The Scott Horton Show

All right, y'all.
Welcome back to the show.
It's anti-war radio.
I'm Scott Horton and our next guest on the show today is Congressman Dennis Kucinich.
Welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Thank you very well.
Thank you for the opportunity to be on anti-war radio.
Well, I'm very happy to have you back here.
I got a very important email.
I'm glad to be on your list here.
War Machine beats the drums for war with Iran, uses Iraq playbook.
And it's maybe a very obvious angle, but I think a very important angle on the propaganda about Iran right now, that it really is almost word for word what we were hearing 10 years ago in 2002 about Iraq.
Well, when we remember that Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction, that Iraq had no intention or capability of attacking the United States, that they weren't trying to get uranium from Niger and all the litany of lies that George Bush and Dick Cheney told us to take us into war.
And you look at what's happening right now.
It's the same playbook.
And it can only lead to the same disaster, except this disaster could be much greater because Iran does have the ability to fight back.
And we should, you know, we need to stop this burgeoning war in its tracks.
Hmm.
Well, you know, I'm not sure if you saw this, but at least one poll, I think it was the Pew poll, said that the Americans are for it.
You know, everybody's so frustrated about something.
Maybe we can just go take it out on them.
And, you know, the guys at National Review seem convinced.
So let's go ahead and have another war.
In some of the polls, they say that at least pluralities believe that Iran already has nuclear weapons.
So let's have a war.
So the propaganda has worked.
You know, this sounds too much like, you know, give me another drink.
I mean, there's a point at which we have to recognize that this addiction to war will destroy our country.
And we have already seen a war based on lies that will cost us $5 trillion, cost the lives of our brave heroes, at least 4,800, tens of thousands of U.S. troops named and over a million innocent Iraqis killed, causing a tremendous amount of long term hatred of our country.
This thing was a disaster.
Diverted attention from the needs here at home, blowing up bridges in Baghdad instead of building bridges in Cleveland and in Lorraine, Toledo and other cities.
So I just say, as I said back in October of 2002, stop the drumbeat for war.
Stick to the facts.
Find a way to avert a war using diplomacy.
There's no reason for us to ratchet this up.
And the fact that we're on the threshold of war right now.
Only proves that we didn't learn anything from Iraq, even though we were relenting to war based on lies, it's like, well, that doesn't matter.
We have to stop, not just the war, but correct the mentality that sees war as a legitimate extension of American diplomacy/power.
Well, Congressman, I think one thing that we learned from the Libyan war was that early last summer that you can change the conversation.
You can make the people that host the TV news shows, basically, I guess, is the measure of it, have to take account that there are dissenting congressmen here.
And especially, as you said, it's the facts here.
If we stick to those facts, they do not lend credence to any of these things.
And the narrative is an entirely separate creature than the truth in this case about Iran's nuclear program.
And I just wonder, is there anything, can you make the resolution say that congressmen have to admit that they know that the CIA says that they're not making nukes?
Or, you know, something in a way to try to interrupt the flow of this bogus narrative, if only for just a minute.
Actually, if you were to go back to, and you could just go into Google and you can find the analysis that I did in October of 2002, and then the motion to recommit, which I offered on behalf of the Democrats in March of, excuse me, again in August of 2002, we asked for all of the information, everything that was out there, all kinds of reports.
But, you know, it's the old saw about my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts.
And that's the approach that these warmongers take, where they determine to go to war against Iraq, notwithstanding the apparent facts.
They're determined to go to war against Libya, notwithstanding apparent facts.
They're determining to go to war against Iran, but the difference is, whereas Iraq and Libya were not in a position to defend themselves, Iran is.
There will be severe consequences for the region, for the Middle East, and for the world, should there be an attack on Iran.
This is not a small matter anymore.
Well, the fact that people think that we can just have a cost-free war, you know, from their point of view, keep the war away from American, you know, consequences here in our part of the world or whatever, just goes to prove what a threat everybody already agrees they're really not.
Well, the preconditions for war are there when you have a consensus that allows war as a legitimate extension of national power.
What's going on in our nation?
I mean, have we forgotten that these wars have exacted a tremendous cost on this country?
You can go back to the war in Vietnam, the cost to the soldiers that people still pay for today.
The first Gulf War, we forgot the veterans, and they ended up with illnesses that were directly connected to being in that theater because of the chemicals that were being used.
The war in Iraq that has maimed tens of thousands of our soldiers, we're misusing the youth of our country, we're misusing the treasure of our youth, sending them into these wars.
We have to stop this.
Stop it.
I mean, I spoke at a rally in New York City in March of 2003, before the war started.
There was a half a million people on First Avenue, and people were winding down Second, and in the general area there were over a million people rallying in New York City against the war.
There were people rallying all around the world, but the policymakers had already determined to go forward.
Now this time, look, Secretary Panetta is not someone who favors going to war.
I don't believe the President wants to go to war, but the drumbeat is on.
Certain senators are beating the drum, the same ones that took us into Iraq based on lies.
We have to stand strong for peace.
Everyone listening should be calling their member of Congress saying, you are not going to stand for the United States going into still another war, that we're demanding jobs in this country, jobs for all.
If we have money for war, we should have money for jobs.
If we have money for war, we should have money for education.
If we have money for war, we should have money for health care.
If we have money for war, we should have money for our retirees and their security.
And if we have money for war, we have money to rebuild America.
I mean, all of these things need to be told directly to members of Congress.
People need to be on the phones right now sending emails and faxes saying, don't you dare.
And we need to go to the streets again if it takes that.
This is a moment where we cannot afford to let America get involved or drag into a war against Iran.
Congressman, could you maybe repeat a little bit of what happened last summer on the Libya issue?
I know it wasn't quite victorious, but at least it did make a difference as far as the truth being out there.
And I remember, I'm sure you remember back in 2005, you were part of this with Walter Jones, you have to come to us before you do anything against Iran bill that he introduced that summer.
Could you repeat that kind of controversy on this issue soon?
Well, we need a bipartisan group to go forward and protest a move towards war.
That's what we did in Libya.
Well, I know a certain presidential candidate that would probably sign on with you.
Well, there might be more than one.
We have an obligation to the American people to expose those who are lying to try to take us into war.
And we have an obligation to history to not fall into the trap of another war, which would be devastating, not only for our country and for Iraq, but for Israel and for the world.
This is, you know, someone has trapped themselves into a closed loop thinking where war is inevitable.
And once you get to that point, war becomes inevitable.
We need the bipartisan coalition that we put together in Iraq.
And it was really heartening to see people moving forward, Democrats and Republicans alike, liberals and conservatives alike saying, look, we can't do this.
We need that coalition to come forward again.
And I'm prepared to lead that coalition as I led it in Libya, as I led Democrats in challenging the war in Iraq.
You know, we have a moment in history here that we may be better defined by what we did not do as opposed to what we did.
And that is that we avoid war instead of aggressing against still another country.
All right.
Well, thank you very much for your time on the show today, Congressman.
I really appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
And I am in an election in 12 days in Ohio.
I would appreciate it if people go to Kucinich.us in the event that you want to help.
I would, too.
It's great to have a serious and consistent anti-war voice in the Congress.
There are so few of them.
So thanks for that.
I'm running against the Democrat who voted for every single expenditure for war that Bush asked for.
And we need to there's a clear choice because I voted against every one of them, led the effort against staying in Iraq and consistently challenging these wars and joining anti-war radio and others in saying we've got to have a better way of doing things in this country.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Kucinich.us, 12 days to go.
I'd appreciate your consideration and your help.
Sure thing.
Yeah, I admit I was not aware that you were in such a tough battle there.
What's the website one more time?
Kucinich.us, five days.
The election's 12 days from now, and it's really going to be defining the Democratic Party because if someone who has been so strongly supportive of Bush's wars gets elected over someone who fought Bush every step of the way, then that's going to be seen as the Democrats at a grassroots level making a choice for war.
Yeah, that's the sin of opposing Obama's wars, too.
Right.
Working against you there.
Well, thank you so much.
All right.
Well, thank you.
Appreciate it.
Bye now.
All right, everybody, that's Congressman Dennis Kucinich from Ohio's 10th District.
We'll be right back.