06/19/07 – James Ostrowski – The Scott Horton Show

Alright, my friends, welcome back to Anti-War Radio.
I'm your host, Scott Horton, and well, all that preceding audio I just played for you was Ron Paul's weekly update at 888-322-1414, and then we heard him on Fox News versus some hairdo, and then his interview with, I forget the name of the guy, where he's explaining the book Dying to Win by Robert A. Pape, a very important book, one on his summer reading list for Rudy Giuliani, and I was very happy this morning to see this article up on LouRockwell.com.
It's the Ron Paul Revolution Halftime Report by James Ostrosky.
Welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Scott.
Well, usually you try to focus on in-depth foreign policy matters and this and that, but I've been trying to spend as much time as possible on the developments in the Ron Paul campaign, as I know all of you guys over at LouRockwell.com are doing.
Yep.
And I have to admit, I'm one of those that you identify in your article today.
I didn't email you about it, but I did think, oh, come on, give me a break, when you wrote, what, a month or so ago, two months ago, maybe, that, hey, Ron Paul really does have a chance at this.
He really could not only win the nomination, but he could actually win the presidency.
And I have to admit that a couple more articles you've written since then, a few blog entries here and there, you're getting my hopes up, Jim.
Tell me, first of all, how it is that you conjure he could get the Republican nomination and then we can move on into his strategy for victory against a Democrat in November 08, too.
Well, first of all, let me just say that I've been analyzing political campaigns for 30 years.
I'm a son of a judge in Buffalo, and he had to run for office, he was not appointed.
So I've been involved in politics my whole life, so I'm kind of like Murray Rothbard, I kind of look at the game of politics and try to play it, try to figure out who's going to win or lose, unrelated totally to my own personal preferences.
I predicted that John Kerry would be the Democratic nominee in December of 03, just looked at the facts and figured it out, and that was my prediction and turned out to be true.
So that's how I'm kind of approaching this.
But the first thing I looked at was how bad the other candidates are.
McCain, Romney, and Giuliani, the big three at this point, they all have huge flaws that I think would prevent them from really locking up the nomination early.
The other factor I looked at was that all the candidates are for the war, except Ron Paul.
Now, it may be that most Republicans are for the war, but that doesn't mean they're all going to vote against Ron Paul.
I mean, that would assume that they're all single-issue voters.
I think Ron will get some of the Republicans to support the war simply because they might agree with them on numerous other issues.
But with so many candidates in the race, and he's the only anti-war candidate, you've got to take it real seriously.
And then there are numerous other factors.
I figured that I'd seen him speak three times.
I'm quite familiar with his speaking style.
And I was a little worried that he wouldn't have enough time to answer because he's the substance candidate and the other people are soundbite people.
But he's even shown that he's becoming the master of the soundbite.
So he's just destroyed these people in the debates when he had a chance to speak.
Obviously, the first and third debates were kind of crappy debates.
But in the second debate where he actually had some time, it was like Muhammad Ali out there.
The guy's just a great debater.
I've seen him on the floor of the house many times.
You know he can give a great speech, but now he's proven that he can get out there and live national TV.
There's a lot of pressure there, even for somebody who's a veteran like he is.
He's a great debater.
And then when you put together the issue, I looked at the issue coalitions that he can put together.
I really think that one of the sleeper issues is the Federal Reserve inflation.
I remember there was one debate where he's the only person that mentioned the word inflation in the whole debate.
There's a lot of people out there who follow this hard money issue.
You know, maybe 5% of the population.
That's a big coalition to get on your side if you're trying to win a nomination.
So it's not just the anti-war who abolished the IRS.
He's got the drug war.
He's the only candidate as opposed to the drug war.
That's maybe 5 to 10% of the population who follows that issue.
He can put together a lot of single-issue coalitions and be quite a force.
And so I just started looking at these factors, none of which have anything to do with my personal preference.
And I said, you know, I think this could happen.
I've been very guarded in my language.
I haven't flat out made predictions as an analyst, maybe as a cheerleader.
I've given a speech on Thursday in Buffalo.
Maybe I'll do that as a cheerleader.
But as an analyst, all I'm saying is he can win the nomination.
And he can win in November.
And that's my opinion.
If I'm wrong, I'll have to hide out in Australia or something.
But so far, my predictions, for example, the fact that he would be the Internet candidate, that wasn't a real tough prediction.
But my God, how that turned out.
That primary is over.
He's won the Internet primary.
My prediction that he would do well in the debates has turned out to be true.
So some of my predictions this year have already turned out to be true.
So people have to look at that and evaluating whether my other predictions are going to be true.
Well, you're definitely right about his mastering of the soundbite.
I read an article the other day where they talked about how he's mastered political, not jiu-jitsu, but judo.
You take the other guy's weight and strength and power and make him clumsily hurt himself.
And then the example was Tucker Carlson said, well, that just sounds like callous and uncaring and mean to just abandon the people of New Orleans and not have the federal government help them.
And he said, well, I think it's callous and mean to turn them over to the tender mercies of the federal government.
He didn't have to back up and say, well, you know, we need to help people sometimes.
He just turned it right around and said, are you kidding me?
Sick in the feds on these poor people after they've just been hit by a hurricane.
Forget that.
Yeah.
And that's a great example for all the listeners out there.
You know, I'm a trial lawyer.
I've been in a lot of debates and so on.
You can never win playing defense.
You win like Patton won.
You attack.
And that's, Ron has shown, he's very adept at that, turning the tables around, taking an attack and throwing it right back at him harder.
And that's the kind of skill that, you know, as time goes on, at some point somebody's going to drop out, although it's kind of part of my analysis that it's going to be a crowded field.
But when he gets more time, when he gets one-on-one, say, if he does get the nomination, I pity the other candidate because the guy's got this encyclopedic knowledge of he's been in and out of Congress for 35 years or so.
He knows the federal government cold.
He knows all the issues.
He knows economics.
He understands history.
He's studied it.
And he's got this beautiful private sector experience as a physician, which checkmates the Democrats on one of the, and basically their key issue, which is health care.
I don't think they want to talk about immigration much.
But on their key domestic issue, his ability to pull out anecdotes out of his own personal experience, which he's already showed on some of these interviews, is just fantastic.
So, you know, I support Ron Paul, but as an analyst I also believe that he's going to be a very serious candidate.
And I think he's already going to be a serious candidate.
Let me tell you a quick story, the debate, the Rudy Giuliani confrontation.
My wife was watching it.
She got all scared and nervous when Rudy went after Ron.
And I said, no, this is the best favor that anybody ever did for Ron Paul.
Rudy elevated him to basically top-tier status as a candidate.
So, you know, things are breaking.
There's an old saying, I'd rather be lucky than good.
Things are breaking his way.
Even the Fred Thompson thing coming in, I've had people say, oh, that's going to hurt Ron Paul.
I don't see how.
I mean, he really doesn't take much away from Ron and his strong issues.
He's pro-war.
And, you know, our local Buffalo columnist took him apart pretty good, too, with just kind of not having any specific ideas.
So everything seems to be breaking his way.
And then, of course, I really think you can't analyze the general without this primaries, without analyzing the general election, because, you know, I really think that you can pencil Hillary.
And I think she's got the nomination.
She's going to have to hold up Barack Obama like like a fighter in one of the old, you know, corrupt movies where the fighters been bought off, you know, just to make it look like there's a contest there.
So and then you look at who's going to beat Hillary.
How does it how does a pro-war Republican beat Hillary when most of the nation is against the war?
The answer is they don't.
They're going to lose.
Right.
People greatly underestimate Hillary Clinton.
Well, she's absolutely brilliant, you know, intellectually.
She's a brilliant politician.
She even looks presidential.
You know, we've never had a woman president, but she can't you can kind of see her in the Oval Office.
And that's just, again, not my personal view.
I'm not a fan of Hillary, but just sizing her up as a candidate, very formidable candidate in the Democratic nomination.
Unless you get an anti-war Republican, I don't see how Hillary stays out of the White House.
And when that thing's in, there's either Ron or Hill.
A lot of people are going to swallow hard and vote for Ron Paul, even if they don't agree with him in some of these issues.
Yeah.
And, you know, Hillary Clinton also has on her side that she's married to Bill and he's legendary for, as you described yourself, in a way, they're really good at the rubber meets the road, seeing the way that the the actual politics on the ground works, how are we going to line up these delegates and those and and who do we need to push poll in which state and those kinds of things.
Bill Clinton is a master at that kind of thing.
And yeah, and I guess that is I don't want to just let it go without saying that Hillary will beat Obama because she does have such high negatives in the in the overall population.
But really in the primaries, I think you're right that that she may well have Barack Obama as much as many people find her distasteful.
She may have Barack Obama on the ropes.
And if we can take it for granted that she'll be the nominee, then I guess the important point for those fighting for Ron Paul here is that the rest of the Republican Party understands and that they begin thinking as far ahead as you are and realize that they only have one chance to to keep the presidency.
And the thing is, the American people also, they want divided government.
I don't think anybody wants the Democrats to control the presidency and the Congress the way the Republicans just finished doing.
That's scary.
Hillary and the Democratic Congress.
You don't want that.
Yeah.
So I'll tell you what, let's take a short break here and and play a song and we'll be right back.
We're talking with James Ostrowski.
He writes for Lew Rockwell Dotcom.
He's the author of Political Class Dismissed Essays Against Politics.
What a great title for a book.
This is Antiwar Radio.
We'll be right back after this.
Well, they call me the trespasser and I might be in your yard, but if you're going to catch me, you'll have to try real hard.
Well, I'll skate to everyone there is till there ain't no more around.
Drain your pool, you son of a bitch, because I'm coming to your town.
Every pool room, I ain't no fool.
From the old school, every pool room.
I skated every ditch and chase and used to duel my soul.
Yes, I met some fine folks, ran into a few assholes.
Whether that gun was alright, yes, I found some curves.
I skated every ditch and shed many rounds, filled up some huffers.
Every pool room, I ain't no fool.
I can't kickflip them from the old school.
Every pool room, I ain't no fool.
When the fools rule, I ain't no fool.
I ain't no fool.
When the fools rule, I'm from the old school.
They call me the trespasser and I might be in your backyard, but if you want to catch me, you'll have to try real hard.
I skated everyone there is.
Yeah, baby, I'll skate to them all around.
Drain your pool, you son of a bitch, because I'm coming to you town.
When the fools rule, I ain't no fool.
I can't kickflip them from the old school.
When the fools rule, I ain't no fool.
When the fools rule, I ain't no fool.
I ain't no I am the fool, I am the fool Ready for the rule now from the old school I skated and I did a dream trip to Houston to a castle Yes, I met some fine folks, I ran into a few assholes But that girl is alright, and yes I've crossed the curve I skated every piece of shit, many ran off into summer Ready for the rule, I am the fool, I can't take flamethrow the old school Ready for the rule, I am the fool Ready for the rule, I am the fool, I am the fool Ready for the rule, I'm from the old school My apologies, don't go to Joe's Crab Shack We're talking with James Ostrosky from LeeRockwell.com Here's a, and we'll be right back with him, here's Ron Paul on Jon Stewart Please welcome to the show Congressman Ron Paul Nice to see you Thank you for joining us You have accomplished no small feat, which is you're running for president very much as an underdog Yet you've created a nice little buzz going about the Ron Paul candidacy What do you attribute that to?
A good message, the philosophy of liberty And people are still interested in being free people, living in a free country But you're talking about America not spreading that liberty to other areas such as Canada and other And I don't believe in trying to spread it, I think it's a good message but I don't believe in spreading it with guns We should spread it by setting a good example and get others to emulate us But not to try to force it on other people Which brought up, there was an interesting question and they're very pleased Chris Wallace asked you at the Republican debate, why are you running as a Republican But really it's only your Iraq message that's somewhat different maybe from all of your counterparts Yeah, I think that's the case but I don't think they're very Good conservatives either, they talk about balancing budgets and spending less but they don't really But the Republican party has been known to have a position where they didn't like going overseas They didn't especially agree with Clinton on going into Kosovo and in Somalia So they flip-flopped around but no, I've taken a very clear position that we shouldn't have gone in What's so interesting about Congressman Ron Paul is you appear to have consistent principled integrity Americans don't usually go for that You seem to practice what you preach, you seem to preach it consistently Even though people might disagree with the message, they certainly can't argue that you're a man of consistent principle Yeah, and I like to think that I've introduced a brand new idea into this campaign I've even suggested that we follow the Constitution No, I'm not familiar with that document, the Constitution The Constitution, this is the thing that we sort of squared up See, I have found that the Republicans oftentimes will campaign against big government But it seems, at least with this administration, they were against government they didn't control But now that they control it, they find it to be very useful and expand the power of it as opposed to bring it down I think that's a temptation that most people yield to once they get into power And I hope I am different and I hope I never yield to that temptation and so far so good Now you originally ran as a Libertarian I ran in 88 as a Libertarian candidate but I've been in Congress for 10 terms In my 10th term, always as a Republican Now why, if you ran, you said something interesting before backstage If you ran as a Libertarian, you wouldn't have gotten this platform No, no, you don't get in debates You know, we're overseas spreading the message of democracy But you know, here, if you're in a third party, you have a tough time You can't get on balance, you spend all your time getting on balance You have to be a Ross Perot to even get on balance Absolutely, the box But the two parties are very much in control of the system And they exclude individuals who aren't in that mold What about your domestic agenda?
You know, I think you've sort of made your bones on this idea about Iraq and liberty You're a guy that really would get rid of a lot of our government Yeah, I think that would be true I think a lot of our government is very wasteful Where would you go?
Let's say, because you won't accept as a doctor Medicare, right?
No, I never did But you're stuck to that, is that something you'd get rid of?
Yes, but that's not high on my agenda As a matter of fact, we've taught a couple generations to be very dependent on government And that's not my goal, because I think you have to have a transition period I happen to think that the market can deliver any service better than the government can And my goal Would you use that for defense too, or no?
You would say defense is still government?
No, no, we have defense, but this militarism isn't defense, this is opposite of defense So I think it would be much better for the private market to deliver all the service Would you go post office?
You'd say post office You've got to give the post office 41 cents is a good deal No, I'd legalize competition I mean, what the heck?
Let a private firm You know, there's FedEx and a few other companies that do exist I'd just legalize competition in first class mail And let the market decide which is best Right So, but doesn't that, in some respects, trust corporations over, or is that Because there's always been regulation You would get rid of regulation for that as well, or?
Yeah, and there's a big difference between corporations who benefit from government largess That's corporatism, and that's evil Right You know, the Halliburton stuff No, I'm familiar with that The military industrial complex No, no, no, no, I've heard some things But a Bill Gates, you've heard of that?
Right, exactly How about a Bill Gates, though?
He's very wealthy because we buy his services And I think that's okay I don't think we should be afraid of people who make a lot of money We should make it in entertainment We shouldn't be afraid of people No, I agree, in entertainment, I think especially in entertainment Now, what about, you've got a debate coming up That's right Tomorrow is your big debate Anything you're going to throw out there?
Any insight into the other candidates you can share?
Is there anybody you find just unbelievably distasteful?
Well, ideas, I find some of their ideas very distasteful You literally say, like, don't make my podium next to that guy No, I haven't said that yet, but I think what I'd like What do you think of this Romney cat?
Has he talked to you?
Yeah, he said hello once He did?
Yeah, he did I don't go for him He strikes me as the Republican John Kerry In the sense of this sort of aristocratic bearing But playing the game of, like, Hey, look at me, I'm hunting, I'm drinking coffee, huh?
Yeah, but he's on top of the polls What does that mean?
What do you think that means?
That means I have to work hard And get my supporters out there and do a good job Here's what I'm going to do for you Very quickly, I'm going to give you a couple of zingers For these guys for tomorrow So when you're out there with, uh, Okay, here you go, here's a good one here Let's go with Giuliani Hey, you love the war on terror so much Why don't you marry it?
Oh, wait You'd probably then just divorce it a couple of years later Here's one Hey, hey, Tommy Thompson, what's your middle name?
Tom?
I'll have these for you on cards if you want them Okay, I'd like to understand I'm here to help you Thank you, me too I'm here from the government and I'm here to help you too Thank you Thank you so much for coming by and continue to, And continue to bring excitement to the process Because I think that's what's lacking sometimes And it's nice to see guys just throwing their ideas out there For whatever it is and being principled Thanks a lot It's nice to see you Thanks, Bob Stay right there with that Alright, you gotta go Ron Paul, Congressman!
Alright, so that was, uh, That was Ron Paul on The Daily Show A couple of weeks ago And so, uh, the question for you, Jim Ostroski, Is, uh, whether this, uh, approach that Ron is taking And, and, uh, seems to be making quite successful Going, uh, to the alternative media using the internet And, uh, the fake news shows on Comedy Central and so forth Uh, is he going to be able to use this more successfully Than Howard Dean and Ned Lamont?
They both had, they were the grassroots, the net roots candidates And they did real well up until it came really time for the votes to be cast And then they both lost Yeah, I, I, I see your point Uh, I remember back when I had, when I was doing my analysis of, uh, Of Howard Dean, I saw him on Chris Matthews And I just sized him up and I said, This, this guy's not going to cut it So, and, and Ned Lamont, uh, strictly, uh, strictly bland Uh, there's, there's no there there So, I guess the first thing I would just say, well, Ron's just a, Ron's just a better, uh, he's just a better, uh, candidate than them Well, I certainly agree with that They had no, they had no staying power And, uh, I, I think, I think Ron does He's just got a better, he just does a better message I mean, if, if, if, uh, Dean couldn't, uh, win the Democratic nomination, uh, You know, when he had every, every advantage Uh, it just shows you, uh, that he just didn't have what it takes And he, you know, he was sort of out front and lost it And Ron, Ron is starting, you know, from scratch and, and gaining ground Uh, the thing with the new, what I call the new media Or everybody calls it the new media Is, you know, uh, very few people under 40 read newspapers And, and very few people under 60 watch the evening news So, uh, the, uh, the old media is becoming increasingly irrelevant And it's the internet, uh, it's internet radio, like your show Uh, and my show in Buffalo, uh, doing it one hour a week Uh, and, and these unconventional, like, you know, these fake news shows Uh, that's where the young people are Uh, you know, that's where the people who don't have landlines Uh, who the pollsters can't reach People who haven't voted before, but maybe vote, maybe will register for the first time And vote for Ron, the pollsters don't know who they are So, uh, it's all good Alright, now, there's a couple of things there Uh, first of all is Howard Dean, uh, even though he, uh, completely blew it Uh, during the time in the run-up to the point when he blew it, which I guess really was Iowa He had raised a ton of money online And do you think that, uh, that Ron Paul's online support, this I don't think anybody can deny this, uh, wildfire that's been spreading around the internet Based on his candidacy, even the Washington Post, or I forget whose headline it was, maybe it was, uh, uh, British paper, obscure no more Uh, you know, he's been catapulted to at least, you know, semi-fame Yeah, well I And what about the ability to turn that into dollars To turn those people who show up at those meetups into real activists Yeah, I think, I think that will happen Uh, a lot of the people, uh, a lot of the people supporting Ron I think are, are basically young people, working class people Uh, who may not have, uh, you know, they may not be able to give the $2300 But I think you're gonna get a lot of 25s and 50s And $100 donations I think he's gonna have enough money to, to go all the way He may not have enough money to compete, uh, you know, buying television ads But I think he'll have enough money to stay in the game His poll numbers will slowly go up, uh, they're actually They already are slowly going up, I mean It's very difficult to get from 0 to 3 percent It's a lot easier to get from 3 to 6 Because that 3 starts to attract attention, money, and media coverage Uh, but he's already gotten from 0 to 3 in New Hampshire and even in some national polls And that's the tough thing, I think he's gonna creep up Uh, and, uh, it, it, it's gonna be, uh, you know, synergistic relationship The polls are gonna go up, he's gonna get more money He's gonna be able to buy TV time, he'll get more media attention And so all these things, uh, should come together And I, I don't think he'll ever need as much as, say, Giuliani or, or Hillary Because he does have the web, uh, as a base And people are turning away from the mainstream media But, uh, I think he'll have enough money to, uh, to play in the game Uh, really, really to the end of the, uh, nomination process Which, as I said in the article, we're gonna know who the nominee is in, in the, in, uh, late, late winter, early spring Right And, uh, he's already said, too, that his campaign will be wasting a lot less money than, uh, Giuliani or Hillary Clinton or John McCain Or any of the rest of these who all hire legions of people And just blow money everywhere on the nicest hotels and all this kind of stuff Where he has no need for such things at all Yeah, there's this whole, uh, nest of, uh, consultants who, uh, you know, they, they sit around and wait for this opportunity And then they gouge the candidates with all sorts of promises And some of them have good track records and some of them don't But, uh, Ron is a frugal guy, uh, and, uh, he's, he's, uh, he's saving his money, he's, they're, they're, uh, using Meetup a lot They're using web resources I mean, I'm putting a rally for Ron together on Thursday in front of City Hall and Buffalo at noon And, uh, just doing it myself It's like spontaneous order Uh, uh, and a lot of people are doing that around the country They're just, uh, through Meetup and these other websites Yeah, in fact Just having their own activities I think that's great you used the phrase spontaneous order That kind of describes this whole campaign Which just proves Ron's point That, you know, when people are left free to achieve the ends they seek They'll do it You don't need to force them And, and look at, look at, speaking of spontaneous order There's a rally in Buffalo Well, and it's very, you know, it's very important if, if anybody from the, uh, Ron Paul campaign hears this Um, it's very important, you know, not to run roughshod over the locals I mean, we in Buffalo or wherever the Ron Paul people are, Montana or wherever Uh, you, you know your community the best Like, I'm having this event in front of the City Hall, the Grover Cleveland statue He has that, uh, he has a portrait of Grover Cleveland on his office in Washington Uh, it's a place where there's a lot of street traffic Uh, it's on a day when there's the market downtown, there's going to be extra people downtown So, uh, work with the local people I know you need a national staff, but don't run roughshod I've seen it happen with campaigns, they just completely ignore the local, uh, people And I, and I, I'm sure, I'm sure Ron's people won't do that But I just want to emphasize that to, uh, work with the local people And then don't, don't go in and just kick everybody out Once, uh, maybe you hire a staffer to just, uh, have a decentralized campaign Uh, along with the message of political decentralization Do you think that all the, uh, grass roots and net roots and everything that are building up around this campaign We, we discussed whether they can really raise money And how important that may or may not be in the end Um, but what about turning out to vote?
Are they, I know in, in many states you have to already be registered as a Republican Long before primary day Here in Texas, you can just walk into the voting booth and say, I'm voting Republican this time And vote in all the Republican primaries Um, but I especially wonder about, as you said, people who normally don't take part in the process of all, at all Who are coming out of the woodwork Are they actually going to turn out to vote?
And the leftists, the, the liberals who are saying that they really like Ron Paul And, uh, you know, nuts to Hillary and Barack Are they going to actually, you know, gulp and go vote Republican, register and vote Republican in the primaries?
It seems to me like, um, well I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to find reasons to be pessimistic or something And I shouldn't do that, but I wonder whether all this support is going to translate one into dollars and two into actual votes Well, it's a good question, uh, up in New York, uh, not a lot of people vote in the Republican primaries So it's very important that, that these different meetup groups, uh, that that be number one on the agenda People have to register, uh, uh, Republican by, uh, the general election of this year in order to be eligible to vote next year They make it really difficult for us up here Uh, but, uh, that's just going to be, have to be on the agenda, uh, for all these meetup groups I know they want to have one ultimately in, like, every zip code or every neighborhood And that's what they're going to have to do, get the, uh, get the vote out in these early, in these early primaries And now, um, something that's really important, too, and we touched on this earlier Is the Republican party, the professionals who run the offices and that kind of thing, uh The campaign chairman from around the country, the party leaders and those kinds of people They're, they have to realize soon that Ron is the only one who can beat Hillary And, and, and they have to get on board, it can't be Ron versus the world forever At some point the Republican party, uh, and he have got to shake hands and make up and work together on this Yeah, and, uh, it's going to be, they're going to be drag kicking and screaming to do that But, uh, I know up in New York, uh, the establishment, the Republican establishment is supporting Rudy He came into Buffalo and grabbed a lot of rich people's money up here, and I know all the cast of characters There's these people who want to, uh, just real quick, the scam is that they don't care too much about what's going on down in Washington But the president appoints the prosecutors and the judges, and so for this Buffalo political machine They always have to control the, the, uh, the command post, the legal command post of society To paraphrase Murray Rothbard, the judges and the prosecutors, so that's what happens Rudy comes in, leaves with about 350,000, and then when the, when the, when there's a vacancy for judge They go back to the guy who held the party and say, uh, hey, uh, who do you like?
And that guy ends up in a judgeship, and it's really nice to control the judiciary and the prosecutors, you know Because it's like a get out of jail free card Yeah, that must be really nice Talk about that in my book, by the way, there's an extensive critique of the American legal system along those lines But, uh, yeah, the Republicans up here are settling on Rudy And, uh, I, I imagine that, uh, if Rudy falters, they'll try to, you know, go with Fred Thompson or somebody else And, but at some point, if, if Ron is winning a lot of the delegates and looks like he's going to get it They're going to have to go to the table and cut a deal and maybe try to get their man, NSBP You know, somebody who's acceptable to us and, um, obviously acceptable to Ron Paul But, you know, somebody who's acceptable to his libertarian base There's people out there, actually there's some good people in South Carolina, but geographically that doesn't work But, uh, yeah, I think that, that'll, that'll eventually, uh, happen Let me ask you about this, New Hampshire's really far away from here And as far as I know, if you live in Buffalo, it might as well be, uh, Texas to you But, uh, tell us about New Hampshire Obviously it is the most important primary It says in their state law that no matter who moves their primary to what date, they'll always be first They're the all-important primary It's the one that, uh, Pat Buchanan beat George Bush in, uh, what, 1992 or what have you And, and, uh, you know, the state flag says live free or die and so forth like that Is it possible that Ron Paul could win or come in, uh, first or, uh, second or third place Or make a real strong showing in New Hampshire, you think?
I, I believe, I believe he will, I'm very confident of that Uh, and that's critical to my analysis as well That, uh, New Hampshire's the most libertarian state in the Northeast For the reasons that you say There's, there's a movement, uh, the Free State Project, uh, uh, to get libertarians to move to New Hampshire And a lot of them have actually already moved there, uh, ahead of, of what they've committed to do Uh, economically they have one of the freest economies And, uh, you know, it is, you don't have to have, uh, car insurance up there That's the right to bear arms state So, uh, there's a natural constituency I don't think that the New England Republicans are, are, you know, really into the pro-war thing They don't have a lot of, uh, evangelical Christians up there, uh, anymore And so, uh, the natural, uh, it's a gift to, to Ron Paul I couldn't think of a better state to, uh, start off the primary And, uh, if he gets 20% up there, he might win Because, the other thing I said is that, uh, there's gonna be 11 candidates shortly And none of them are gonna drop out Because who's gonna drop out, uh, in six months?
Maybe one of them, I think Gilmore's out of money already, or one of those people Um, and you're gonna have a very crowded field So a small percentage could win you the, the, uh, the primary And then even when it comes to the delegates A lot of these states have winner-take-all Either statewide or in the congressional districts So, even with a small percentage win, he could win the majority of the delegates So, some of these rules are designed to maintain the, the establishment's lock on power But ironically, this year, they may help the insurgent And he's a hell of a lot better candidate than Pat Buchanan ever was, too Uh, yeah, I, I, well, uh, sure, I, I, I definitely think he is But then some, some of, uh, I think some of that constituency, uh, uh, will also go with Ron Paul I mean, Ron, you know, uh, Buchanan sounded quite libertarian in those days Uh, when he was, uh, running for president And, uh, so I think some of the votes that went for Pat Buchanan will also go for Ron Paul Okay, now, it may be impossible in four minutes or something But, uh, obviously, you're extremely well-schooled in all of libertarianism and so forth Uh, please explain why Ron Paul's, in your view, Ron Paul's libertarian approach to healthcare Is superior to Hillary Clinton's Hillarycare Wow, that's a, that's a tough question Um, and what the hell, we don't have a hard break, we can go over if you want to No, well, you know, the, what's happened in, what's happened in healthcare is that, uh, over a long period of time There's been a small, uh, incremental growth in, uh, in government's role in healthcare And each, each time the government starts to regulate something, uh, something, uh, goes wrong with that And so there's calls for, for further regulation, we're, we're now in this sort of semi-socialist system And we can either, you know, literally von Mises said, you know, that the mixed economy is inherently unstable And is usually tending towards, uh, full socialism So the, the choice that we have is to either go forward with, uh, a full socialistic, uh, you know, medical system Which is, which is an obvious failure, I mean, they tried it, they tried it in the Soviet Union Uh, or we can go back to a truly free market I, I think Ron's challenge is going to be, with, with all these things, when you, you know, when you say When you propose a libertarian solution to a skeptical person, uh, they always kind of, uh, I don't know They, they just kind of superimpose it on the status quo And what they don't understand is the status quo was created by, you know, government intervention in the first place So it's kind of a challenge to the, to our communication skills to just talk about, uh, you know, what, what it would be like in a free market And Ron's very well positioned to do that He understands that, like in the 1950s, you know, you'd go to the hospital, have a baby, and you'd walk out with a bill of 250 bucks And, uh, this is before Medicaid, uh, Medicare And, and he understands the economics of it too, that basically what Medicaid and Medicare have done Ironically, is raise the cost of medical care by, because of the law of supply and demand They're throwing additional bucks at medical services It's kind of like college, college student loans and subsidies The result is that when the, when the government throws money at something, the price, the price goes up And therefore, you're just kind of running in place and not accomplishing anything Uh, just real quick, my father happened to be in the emergency room, uh, last year And he turned out to be fine But we, he was stuck in there for about, uh, more than 24 hours And nobody, nobody, uh, ever told us what was wrong with him You know, they kept us in the dark And I just started analyzing it if there wasn't anything else to do sitting in the hospital And I said, like, this is what happens when, when there's no connection between payment and service Uh, nobody, uh, nobody even cares that, you know, to inform you of what's going on And so, because of this, you know, uh, disconnect between payment and service That, uh, uh, you know, Medicare and Medicaid, Medicare and Medicaid have foisted upon us Uh, it's, it's degraded the quality of medical care And, you know, Ron's very good at this, he said, you know, why can't a nurse give you a general physical?
Uh, people have to understand that in a free market, medical care would be a lot cheaper A lot more quickly available with, with less paperwork and more competition And, uh, we just have to get the point across that the, the, the true free market is the best friend of the poor throughout history And, and in every country And I think Ron is very, you know, because of his, um, 40, 50 years experience in healthcare field Is just perfectly positioned to get that message across Most times that the government, particularly on the left, um, kind of, uh, give up Okay, okay, we surrender, we'll, we'll go ahead and socialize this for you We'll go ahead and, uh, subsidize that or regulate that It seems to me it's really often a ruse for, um, well, welfare for rich people Like, uh, Section 8 housing Section 8 housing is really about welfare for the contractor Not so much for the people who are going to end up living in the Section 8 housing And, so I, I wonder whether you see an angle like that in medical care Where not knowing the details, this whole Hillary, Hillary Care and nationalizing single payer, whatever they call it All sounds to me like it's probably just a trick of the pharmaceutical companies whereby They'll be able to set the price through their lobbyists' meetings with their Congressman Which is now against the law, right, for them to set their price But as long as they invite their Congressman along, they can set it wherever they want Well, I totally agree with that Let me tell you a little anecdote Paul Tokash was the majority leader of the New York State Assembly until he left office And, you know, he, in the debate over Medicare, which is Medicaid, excuse me, which local, our local communities pay a lot of it here And it's causing huge property tax increases And he said, now don't attack Medicaid because, you know, almost all of Medicaid goes to the poor and the disabled and the elderly and so on And I started thinking to myself, well actually, almost all of Medicaid goes to fairly rich people Doctors, hospitals, medical supply corporations and so on So you always have to look beyond the rhetoric and find out that a lot of these programs that are supposedly to benefit the poor Actually benefit some of the wealthiest people in society I can tell you, and we've been trying to start a tax revolt here in the last couple of years We have no physicians whatsoever And it's like, what's the matter, don't you want lower taxes?
I think people sort of implicitly understand that, you know, in today's economy, if you're a physician, you're kind of a recipient of a lot of largesse from the government So, again, we have to get that populist message out there We have to look behind the rhetoric and explain the real economics of it Which is that the current healthcare system does not particularly benefit the poor, but it benefits a lot of wealthy special interests And ultimately, if there is a real chance for Ron Paul to get this nomination or even become the president It's going to be because he represents the original American values, minus the owning slaves He represents the English enlightenment He is, as you call him in your article today on LewRockwell.com, a Jeffersonian And we haven't had a Jeffersonian president in a long time, but this is still America Since Grover Cleveland in 1897 And the reason I use an earthquake metaphor is not just blowing smoke, but it really is an earthquake Because there's a lot of pent-up energy there A lot of these Hamiltonian big government programs have been going awry for so long That people are just fed up with them and are ready to push that button and just say Let's get rid of this, let's get rid of that Reform it?
No, just get rid of it We've tried to reform it 17 times, let's just scrap it So when Ron's out there talking about elimination of wholesale government agencies Nobody's really raising an eyebrow They're just saying, yeah, let's do it People sort of implicitly understand Like you say, HUD, HUD was always a scam for wealthy contractors Right from the New Deal And the work we've done in the libertarian movement for the last 30 or 40 years Getting this message out there, it's beginning to pay off A lot of capital has been invested in human capital and getting the message out there And so you see when Ron talks, people are now saying, yeah, I agree with that Probably because they've heard it 10, 20 times before from some libertarian magazine or radio show or think tank James Ostrowski writes for LouRockwell.com You can find him on the blog there And in his archives, if you look on the left side there And click on columnists, you can find his entire archives And also he's got an article today on LouRockwell.com Ron Paul Revolution, Halftime Report He's an attorney from Buffalo And author of the book Political Class Dismissed Essays Against Politics Thanks very much for your time today Thanks a lot Scott, it was a lot of fun Appreciate it Alright guys, this is Anti-War Radio on Chaos Radio 95.9 FM in Austin, Texas Folks, my guest tonight is a Republican presidential candidate here to get the Colbert bump With my help, he could become the Republican Mike Gravel Please welcome Ron Paul Sir, thank you so much for joining us today Good to be with you Now, you know, I usually like to come over to my guests with a head full steam Either on their side or against them Alright, I'm not sure how to feel about you But I'm passionately ambivalent That is good, that is good Let me stake out some of the things you've been doing You voted against the Patriot Act I did You voted against the Iraq War Yeah But you also hate taxes and you hate gun control You are an enigma wrapped in a riddle nestled in a sesame seed run of mystery Are you a Republican or are you not a Republican?
No, you're confused because I'm a constitutionalist and you haven't met one in a long time And it's not that unusual to put those together if you believe in the rule of law Believe in the American tradition and believe in limited government But hasn't our Attorney General said the Constitution is quaint?
That is what they said, but he's wrong He's wrong and we need to prove himself What do you mean by a constitutionalist?
Because the Constitution is not a suicide pack, sir That is true Obeying the Constitution doesn't mean that, you know, we can let anything happen that will harm our country No, if you obey the Constitution, though, you'll be a freer person than if you disobey it If you allow the President to run wild and, you know, investigate and spy on people and start wars that aren't declared You could lose your liberties, though I would think it'd be a good idea All the President's doing and all the President has ever done is what's best for us He is doing domestic spying And he invaded Iraq And whether or not that was a declared war or whether or not he had subpoenas for the domestic spying You know, I'd rather be alive than free and dead You know, that's what they say Deadline, huh?
But they're wrong about that I'd rather be free and alive and you can be You do not have to give up your liberties You recently said, in a recent speech, you said it is dissent from government policies that defines the true patriot and the champion of liberty It is that kind of talk that lost the Republicans the last election And they deserved it But you're a Republican, you're out of power now But they did not follow that dictum and they didn't follow the Constitution Because they ran away from the President They dissented with him and they no longer had a unified shield to keep out the mongrel hordes of the Democrats I don't think so Of course you don't think so They didn't run away from the President and they lost I ran away from the President and I won I didn't support the war I didn't support the patriot act Now let's go back to this war thing You say that the government abuses the word war That we have That it enhances They say You said the government loves to use the word war because it enhances the power of the government and stifles dissent That's why we have wars on drugs, poverty, illiteracy and terrorism all going on at the same time Do you think it's right to criticize the government?
You know, of fear-mongering?
I think so When we're at war?
I think so It's very important Especially when you should criticize the government when they go to war incorrectly You know, Randolph Bourne, a famous writer many years ago said War is the health of the state If you believe in liberty, you want to reduce the size and the scope of the state So therefore you want to stamp out all wars and prevent wars from stopping Whether it's a war on drugs or a war in Iraq and war against poverty All these wars are just to scare the people in order to give up their liberties and give up their money to the government So that they can solve all our problems What do you think the government should be doing?
I mean, I'm a small government guy unless of course the President wants to do something Now, what do you think the government should be doing?
I'm going to ask you something I'm going to just ask a question to any of the presidential candidates here I want to ask you to raise your hand If you'd like to abolish the Department of Education Sure, sure Keep it up, keep it up, keep it up And put it down when I name an agency you would like to keep Department of Homeland Security Department of Energy The IRS FEMA The UN NATO The Interstate Commerce Commission NAFTA The WTO Get rid of them all UNICEF That would be my very last We don't need it, we could do better in charity work But it wouldn't be one of my targets I come down here You come down here?
Where the children are?
Yeah, about there Well, sir, thank you so much for joining us today Good luck with your candidacy I hope you get the Colbert bump Look for it in the next poll I'm prepared presidential candidate Ron Paul