All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show.
I am the Director of the Libertarian Institute, Editorial Director of Antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and I've recorded more than 5,000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org.
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All right, you guys on the line, I've got Dan McKnight.
He is the founder and the director or something leader of bring our troops home dot us.
He was a Marine and then army soldier and then a guardsman.
And in the latter role there, he was a combat veteran in Afghanistan.
And now he's working very hard in conjunction with some other groups to to push the defend the guard legislation through the state legislatures this legislative season, as they call it here in Texas anyway.
Welcome back to the show.
How you doing, Dan?
Good, Scott.
How are you?
Good to talk to you again as well.
So yeah, man, just tell him real quick, give him a background.
What is defend the guard legislation?
And what are you doing about it?
You bet.
Defend the guard is a it's a piece of legislation at the state level.
It's a one page bill.
It's very clean.
It's constitutionally supported.
And basically what it says is that the National Guard of the states cannot be released into federal active duty combat service overseas unless Congress has first done their job and declared war as required by the Constitution.
Pretty simple.
Clean bill should be zero argument from anybody in the world, but running into all kinds of resistance from the military industrial complex and the war hawks and the neocons.
But we've got to introduced or in some form of introduction in 31 states this year.
Most recently, we had hearings in Texas and Maine, where you and myself and several combat veterans testified in favor of the bill.
And in neither state do we have any testimony whatsoever that opposed the bill.
It was all combat veterans and Liberty folks supporting it.
And we're kind of in a waiting game now for Texas and Maine and Michigan.
Actually, we had another good hearing up in Michigan, too.
But yeah, 31 states started five years ago with Delegate Pat McGeehan in West Virginia, the original gangster of defend the guard.
He's our he's our dude.
And after his efforts there in our efforts the last two years, we're now in 31 states planning to be in 50 states next year.
Great.
And now, since the vast majority of the occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq have been drawn down and it's mostly special operations forces, Green Beret types and that kind of thing over there.
Is there much of an active duty role of the guard at this current point or this is to prevent the next big deployment or is this is still going on?
A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B, you know, the National Guard has two special forces units, the 19th and 20th Special Forces Groups.
And they are the most heavily deployed special forces troops in the United States military footprint.
20th group consists of, I believe, is 20th group is Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Utah.
And that Green Beret unit has deployed, I want to say, 16 or 17 times in the global war on terror all across the Horn of Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and most recently an attachment that went with the Green Berets that are currently serving in Mozambique of all places.
And so, yeah, it is a current situation, even with the drawdown in troops in both Iraq and the announced withdrawal from Afghanistan.
This is still a current issue, but more importantly, it brings the enumerated powers of Congress back into the forefront of foreign policy.
And before we ever go into a new war, and let's be honest, Scott, you know this, we're going to be in war probably in Niger or Ethiopia, somewhere in Africa, probably in the next year or two because of, you know, just the things that the crazy Biden administration are doing right now.
But before they could ever take National Guard into combat again, there must be a declaration of war.
And so this is just hitting the reset button on what the founding fathers intended initially.
Yeah.
Well, that's a real good point.
But on the previous point there about the Green Berets, I presume it's got to be a massive misconception that special operations forces all come from just the active duty military.
The National Guard are the guys that stack sandbags to protect us from flooding and, you know, help the firefighters put out forest fires and stuff like this.
And now these are the special operations forces, our guardsmen, and have been, as you say, involved in the terror war this entire time, 2001 on.
No, you're right, Scott.
The National Guard actually has been involved in the global war on terror since the beginning.
You know, a lot of the drones that are flying around the sky and the reconnaissance aircraft that stay in the air for 22 or 24 hours at a time, they're refueled by air guardsmen flying the KC-130 aircrafts.
A lot of them are from Minnesota or Michigan.
And so the National Guard has been involved in the global war on terror since the beginning.
But prior to the global war on terror, the National Guard wasn't really used as an offensive weapon in America's wars overseas.
And so this is kind of a way to bring that back into alignment.
The National Guard can be and should be an auxiliary force for the United States military, but they should only go and fight overseas when it meets one of the criteria for the National Guard's existence, which is to either repel an invasion, put down an insurrection or enforce the laws of the Union.
And a declaration of war by Congress would become the law of the Union, which would be the legal justification for the National Guard to actually go overseas and fight the nation's wars.
Yeah.
You know, it's so important that, and I wish I had said this, it was on my list of things to say to the main legislature there that I didn't get to, but that is that at least in my experience, that you veterans are the ones who take your oath to the Constitution more seriously than anybody else, because you're putting your life on the line for the thing you believe at the time, whereas the average federal bureaucrat is just checking a box.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hereby take my oath to get this job, you know, kind of a thing and don't care nearly as much.
So then it seems like on matters of war and peace and on matters of deploying soldiers into harm's way, that being a stickler for the law in the Constitution and the delegated responsibility to the legislature to decide these matters would be then of the highest importance.
Absolutely.
You know, I took the oath six times between my initial enlistment and all the different times I reenlisted or changed services.
And it says this, it says, I, Dan McKnight, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the president United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the uniform code of military, military justice.
So help me God.
And there's an order to that.
The first order is that I will defend the Constitution United States, and then I will follow the orders of the president, and then the officers that are appointed over me.
And it's in that order.
There's a reason the oath is in that order.
And when we take the oath, we take it very seriously.
We take it to heart, even though we know at some point, the politicians and the generals and the higher brass are going to pull the wool over our eyes and have us do things that aren't in accordance with that oath.
And if we, if everyone that takes that oath, took it as seriously as those that wear the uniform do, we would never find ourselves in an undeclared unconstitutional war.
There would be no War Powers Act from 1973, given the president the sort of ability to wage war.
There would never be an authorization of use of military force.
Congress doesn't give two craps about the oath of enlistment, but those that put the uniform on, we take it to heart and it means something to us.
And we believe in defending the entire constitution in its, in its amended form.
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One thing that came up in the Texas legislature was, yeah, but come on, what if push came to shove and the president of the United States declared out loud, I hereby nationalize your force.
What, what do you think would happen then?
And I believe that question was directed to you.
What is your answer to that?
You know, if the, if the president did that and people want to argue that the supremacy clause trumps everything, well, that's not really true.
The supremacy clause, it says only those things that are in pursuance or consistency with building forth the union, the country and the president giving an unconstitutional order is easily defied, right?
It's easy for someone to say that is not constitutional and we will fight against it.
You see it every day.
You see groups that fight against these executive orders.
You see groups that just ignore it.
You see states that just, that just thumb their nose through nullification acts and all these different things that president's executive orders, um, it will, it will take some courage.
It would take a governor to stand up and say, we're not going to do that.
Not on my watch.
Not well, not with my men and women, not with our national guard.
Um, and it would take some courage to do it.
But if, if, if one state passes, defend the guard and one governor stands up to an executive dominoes will fall and other states will fall in line and eventually any state that has any intellectual honesty whatsoever in their legislature would pass this law and reclaim that state's right that that 10th amendment right for states to control their own destiny and their own resources and their own militia.
Yeah.
Well, listen, I mean you have a few things going for you here, Dan one, you're completely right that we got to call an end to this thing and you're right that this is a great way to do it, to get the state legislatures, to stick up for the people and interpose themselves here to protect the troops from being misused in this way.
And you've got the progressive left that have been essentially pretty good on war this whole time.
Um, and you know, certainly didn't support the invasion of Iraq, for example.
And then you have, uh, you guys are really leading this thing.
And uh, in conjunction, I know with young Americans for Liberty and you can talk about any other organizations that are, you know, working along with you on this, um, and you're, you're going through Republican state legislators to get these bills introduced.
And I know that they're bipartisan and they have democratic co-sponsors, but it seems like you have found a real great way to merge the progressive left with the constitutionalist right in the best way on the most important issue to really get something done here, man.
It's really something else.
I appreciate that.
And I, I agree, you know, when the, when the Texas state, uh, GOP party platform has defend the guard written in as one of their party planks and the ACLU has endorsed defend the guard as well, it's easy to draw from the left and the right.
It's easy to get Tulsi Gabbard and Ron Paul, you know, it's easy to get Thomas Massey and Ro Khanna to talk similarly about these things.
Um, and, and we're bringing it back to the states, you know, one of the original states when the Senator or Congressman and former secretary of state to three presidents, Daniel Webster said this.
He said, it will be the solemn duty of the state governments to protect their own authority over their own militia and to interpose between their citizens and an arbitrary power.
And that arbitrary power he was talking about was the executive, the president of the United States.
And so you're right, it left, right center.
It doesn't matter.
Um, people from the entire political spectrum support this and anybody that truly understands the balance of power and the, the federalist system that we, that we live in, uh, this is a no brainer.
Um, the people that oppose it are simply, uh, neocons or those that are willing to put their head in the sand and ignore the constitution and to go along to get along.
Yeah.
Um, all right now, so tell me about your organization and tell me any other organizations that you're working with.
Um, I mentioned young Americans for Liberty there.
Who else is helping to get this done?
I'll tell you, um, young Americans for Liberty has been awesome.
You know, they have a grassroots army second to none and they've been great, uh, especially in Texas and Maine and New Hampshire where they've got a big presence.
Um, in Wyoming we had an opportunity to present defend the guard with an organization called campaign for Liberty.
Um, it's a, another Ron Paul like, um, organization and we were, uh, up there presenting to a group of 40 activists that were just coming out of their political, uh, hibernation and becoming activists.
And, um, it was well received.
The entire room was all in favor of it.
And in Wyoming we had 21 co-sponsors on our bill and the speaker of the house still killed the bill.
And so, um, those are going to, um, concerned veterans for America is really good on this issue.
They just had a resolution in Montana that you actually testified on behalf of, uh, wasn't about defend the guard, but it was about war powers and the, um, the AUMF and ending the war.
And it was, it was solid.
So they do great work.
Um, and then all the other typical veterans organizations that we love, you know, vote vets and, and Vietnam veterans against the war and vet veterans for peace.
They're all allies with us.
Yeah.
About face.
Those that are kind of carrying the torch on this.
Yeah.
About face.
That's a Iraq veterans against the war is now called about face is another really important one.
Yep.
Great organization.
And, and these organizations, these veterans organizations are probably the most powerful voice, um, in the anti-war movement because they've been there.
Literal skin in the game, literal limbs missing from their bodies.
And now, so how much of a coalition do you have with these other groups on this issue?
Uh, in terms of like veterans for peace and, and concerned veterans of American about face, are they working on this?
It's a very loose, uh, uh, organization or ally.
Um, what we have is whenever we have a testimony in a state, we'll reach out to these organizations or a hearing in another state, we'll reach out and see if they have members that want to testify on behalf of the bill.
And they usually send one or two, uh, participants to go testify.
Yeah.
Then you got one guy for one or two guys from each group.
That looks great.
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
And you get such a different point of view, uh, the American Legion in Maine, which is, this is amazing.
The American Legion came out with a full endorsement of this bill and actually passed a resolution, um, at the American Legion post in Maine in support of defend the guard.
Who's going to tell the American Legion that they're wrong on war?
I mean, who is Liz Cheney going to stand up and tell all the veterans that are members of the organization that wear the funny little hats that they're, that they don't know what they're talking about.
I mean, who's going to tell American Legion concerned veterans about face all of us that have been there that have lost friends that are gold star or gold star wives and mothers that join our organization.
Who's going to tell us that we're wrong?
Scott, it's a, it's the greatest coalition I think that we've ever seen, uh, in the anti-war movement.
Yeah, man.
It's really something else.
Um, I'm so grateful that this is happening.
And now, so you mentioned 31 States there.
If people go to bring our troops home.us, they can see which States are which and how they can participate or how does that work, bud?
Yep.
Actually, if they go to defend the guard.us right on the homepage, there's a map of the, of the entire country and it's updated fairly regularly and you can click on any state and see where the bill is at and who's sponsoring it.
And if you go to a state, let's just say Oregon for example, and you click on it and we don't have any action there and no sponsor, it'll say suggest a chapter and you can actually put your name or another person's name and email phone number and a message saying, Hey, I know a state representative or I know a state Senator, or I would like to be the one that champions this cause in my state.
And we'd love to fill in the blanks.
Any state that we don't have a good sponsor or a good champion in, we'd love any help that we can get.
So defend the guard.us that's specific to the legislation, but bring our troops home.us is our organization's webpage.
And that's where I'd encourage people to go to sign up, to be part of the grassroots army, to be part of our organization, to get our, our, our regular updates.
You can click on any of the links on there to stay in contact with us and we'll send you very little.
We don't, we don't blow up your email, but we'll send you a weekly update, a video on our social media or a newsletter once a month.
And we'll do things that like we'll be giving away guns throughout the year and you can sign up to win a gun for all of our right-wingers that love the AR platform.
That's where I would encourage people to go just to be a part of the organization.
Scott, if I could, I got one last thing I'd love people to check out when they go to the site that this should be taught in every civics class in high school and colleges around the world.
If you go to bringourtroopshome.us and go to the bottom of the page where the, it's got our YouTube videos.
If you click to the second page, you're going to find Pat McGeehan's closing arguments from the defend the guard debate in West Virginia.
I would highly, highly, highly encourage any American, whether you believe in this legislation or not.
If you would just want a, a, a, a lesson in constitutionality and enumerated powers, click on the Pat McGeehan closing speech on defend the guard and spend nine minutes and 13 seconds getting a master's education in constitutionality.
It's one of the best speeches I think I've ever heard.
Yeah, it really is great.
And I'll go ahead and repost that on my Twitter and, uh, on the Institute blog and all of that too.
That's great.
And, and look, uh, I know there's a lot of veterans in this audience who are looking for something to do about it.
And so here you go.
I mean, this is your team, Dan McKnight and bringourtroopshome.us and they're getting work done.
They're not just sitting around being anti-war.
They're doing anti-war in the most important way.
So, uh, man, I'm really proud of you guys and, uh, good luck.
Thanks Scott.
Thanks for all the support.
We appreciate it.
Hell yeah.
All right.
You guys, that is a Dan McKnight bringourtroopshome.us and defend the guard.us take part.
You can.
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