All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show.
I am the Director of the Libertarian Institute, Editorial Director of Antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and I've recorded more than 5,000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org.
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All right, you guys on the line again.
I've got Nasser Arabi, reporter out of Sana'a, Yemen, and his website is yemenalan, that's yemen-now.com.
Welcome back to the show.
How you doing, Nasser?
Thank you very much.
Thanks for having me.
Very happy to have you back on the show here, and we have so much news to talk about.
First of all, can we talk about the actual fighting on the ground in Yemen right now?
It's said in the media that there are major battles around the last stronghold of the former government in Marib in the north, under heavy assault by the Houthis.
Please catch us up here.
Yes.
Well, this is the catch-up from Marib.
Marib is about 250 kilometers east of Sana'a, the capital, and it's the last, as you said, the last stronghold of the Saudi-backed government, and also at the same time, it's oil-rich, and it's bordering Saudi Arabia from east and south.
So it's very, very important, and it's the last stronghold that is still in the hand of the Saudi-backed government.
Now Houthi forces are closing in on the city.
They've been doing this for about four days, and the expectations are that the city would fall in the hand of Houthi fighters.
And if this happens, this would mean that the Saudi-backed government is no longer on the ground, at least in the north of Yemen.
And this maybe would be a big turning point and a game-changer for everything in this six-years-old war.
I read one report that said that it seems like this is, the Houthis mean to use this as a bargaining chip, that once they have control of this town, then they will be able to negotiate giving it back, essentially.
You guys end the war, and we'll let you have your forces here, let your guys maintain this area, something like that.
What do you think of that?
I think it's right.
It is being used, Marib is being used by Houthi as a bargaining chip, of course, with Saudi Arabia, not with anyone else, because it means a lot to Saudi Arabia.
It is a strategic place, as I told you.
It would make the threat on Saudi Arabia even bigger, in terms of the cross-border attacks on Saudi Arabia.
I mean, the cities, the Saudi cities and the Saudi airports and the Saudi vital things and vital targets would be under Houthi fire control, if I could say this.
So it is a very important city, and the Houthis, I think, did not yet, or have not yet decided to take control of this city, because they want first to make sure what would the situation of the oil and the gas and the other things, what they would look like if this city falls.
So these calculations are very important for Houthi.
What Houthis want, they want more concessions from Saudi Arabia, because Houthis also want to sit down for negotiations, but they don't want the Saudi arrogance and the Saudi bullying and these things that sometimes take a lot and give nothing to Houthis.
But it would not continue like this.
I think it would, if Saudi Arabia keeps being arrogant and step on and not taking into consideration the conditions of the Houthis and what Houthis want, I think the city would fall in the hands of Houthis, because the upper hand is for Houthis now in Marib and in Al-Jawf, which are both Marib and Al-Jawf are at the border with Saudi Arabia, and they would increase the threat on Saudi Arabia.
All right, now, how bitter is the fighting in terms of the actual battles taking place on the ground there?
I guess the reports here are that dozens have been killed or scores, do you know?
It's very bitter, of course, of course, it's yes, dozens, dozens, dozens are being killed every day for four days or five days now.
From both sides, of course, because it's be or not to be, and it's a decisive battle, and it would mean a lot.
As I told you, it would be a turning point, it would be a game changer.
But the upper hand is for Houthis for many reasons.
Of course, since last year, they took over the most important strategic positions that would defend the city.
And we talked with you about this many times.
So it was Marib, we can say Marib fill in their hands not only this year, but last year when the most important place, the most important positions and camps and military equipments and everything that fell in the hands of Houthi last year.
So it's now only like a political decision, if I can say so.
Houthis are surrounding the city from the three directions, from the south, from the west, and from the north.
The only direction that is still open is the eastern part of the city, which leads to Saudi Arabia and to the eastern part of Yemen, to Hadhramaut and Saudi Arabia, or eastern part of Saudi Arabia.
So it's very, very heavy fighting and a lot of casualties and a lot of losses are being inflicted on both sides, of course, in these days.
All right.
Now let's talk about the American political side of this war for a minute here, Nasser.
As I'm sure you're aware, President Biden has announced that he's calling off support for Saudi's offensive operations against the Houthis.
He said that will still help with anti-missile and anti-drone tech for the Saudis to defend themselves from Houthi attack across that border.
But Admiral Kirby at the Pentagon did confirm the next day, I mean, assuming he's telling the truth, he did say that as per the president's order, they stopped all intelligence, logistic and maintenance support for the Saudi effort against the Houthis there.
And they've named a new envoy to come and who's a holdover from the Trump administration, actually, but who's said to be a real Yemen expert and very interested in trying to bring an end to the conflict here.
And just to be clear to the audience here, we're talking about potentially switching sides back in the war against AQAP again, not really ending the war, but just going back to the way it was before 2014 and 15.
But anyway, I wonder what you think of all of that, Nasser.
Go ahead.
The floor is yours, sir.
It was zero-sum.
What Biden administration is doing could be nothing if there is no concrete things on the ground, because he said that he would stop the American involvement.
He would stop selling arms to Saudis.
And he also canceled or revoked the designation of Houthis as terrorist organization.
These are good things, but they could mean nothing if there is nothing in terms of ending the real war, ending the sufferings, ending and lifting the blockade.
Saudi Arabia is seizing dozens of commercial ships there in the sea after they have taken the licenses and permits from UN, because Saudi Arabia is still weaponizing the food, the medicine and the fuel of Yemenis.
Saudis are still using the food and medicine and fuel as a weapon against Yemenis.
And if Biden can do anything, if Biden puts a condition like I will defend, like he said I would defend Saudi Arabia, this sentence makes it zero-sum, makes it nothing.
Because if they mean, if he means that the defensive or what Houthi is doing to defend themselves as an attack, this is not right, because it's not attack.
Houthi would not, Houthi doesn't want to be in this war.
The majority of people under Houthi don't want this war at all.
Sure.
Although, I mean, believe me, Nasser, not to not to spin for Joe Biden or anything like that, because he's not a good man and he's not a good president and he won't be.
But on this particular thing, though, when when he's saying defensive, you know, regardless of who started it or anything like that, sometimes the Houthis launch missiles and drones from Yemen into Saudi.
And so very narrowly defined, he can say, look, we're going to help them defend themselves from attacks by the Houthis without that necessarily being a loophole for the whole war, I don't think.
Although clearly you're right that this is America, Saudi and UAE started this war, not the Houthis.
This is the point, Scott.
This is the point.
It should not be a condition for ending the war.
Yes, Biden and anyone and the world should defend Saudi Arabia from any threat, whether from Yemen or from Iran or from any place.
I agree with them 100 percent.
It goes without saying, yes, but people, Yemenis are being killed and being starved to death for six years now.
They should look to this as a big problem.
They should end it.
They should end this suffering first.
And then they I mean, there will be millions, a million things to defend Saudi Arabia.
Of course, Saudi Arabia should be defended by U.S. and by everyone if there is any threat to it.
But Saudi Arabia, Yemenis are being killed, being starved and being displaced from their houses.
Millions of people are being displaced.
So this is the point now we Biden administration should end this suffering first if he wants to do something good for Yemenis.
And now you're telling me that the situation at the port of Hodeidah and at the airport in Sana'a has not changed at all.
Yes, Hodeidah is still there.
Things are still there going nowhere.
Hodeidah is also being used as a bargaining chip by both sides, not only by Houthi, by both sides, because the Stockholm agreement, that is the very all that the agreement that was that was struck in Sweden more than two years ago, it's still there.
Nothing has been achieved, but it is still there, very fragile.
It is holding, but very fragile.
It's still holding, but very fragile.
What is there any progress?
No, there is no progress being made in terms of this.
The city is still under Houthi.
The surroundings or the outskirts of the city are under the Saudi backed forces.
And nothing at all has changed.
But both of them, both of those, I mean, the two sides of the war, the Houthi camp and the anti-Houthi camp are still using it as a bargaining chip, unfortunately.
And they are sacrificing, they are sacrificing also the people, not only the people of Hodeidah, but also the 20 million of Yemenis who depend on Hodeidah, who depend on Hodeidah seaboard, because it's the only lifeline.
It's the only lifeline left for life-saving aids.
And they, unfortunately, still use it as a bargaining chip, unfortunately.
And now, can you tell us, I don't know if you know the statistics or whatever, but do you have an estimate of any kind of what percent of the trade is going through the Hodeidah port now compared to before the war?
Oh, it's easy to guess it.
I have no official statistics, because we are in a war.
But I would say this, I would tell you this, and you can guess the percentage.
See, there are now 26 commercial ships being seized by Saudi Arabia in Jizan.
That is in the south of Saudi Arabia, under its sea, right?
So they are being seized, although they have all permits and all licenses from the UN in Djibouti.
So how Saudis would allow them, or how many would be allowed?
One every three to three or four weeks after a big pressure from the world.
You know, there is a pressure from everywhere, from the UN agencies, from the relief agencies.
They say, please free the commercial ships and the aid ships, and please let the aids in, please let the food staff in.
They appeal to Saudi Arabia.
And after, when this pressure is high, when it is highest, they allow one, one of 26, one of 25.
And sometimes when there is escalation like today, like nowadays, like now, Hodeida would not allow anyone.
So you can say it's 10% or 20% at the best, 20%, if we compare it to before the war.
This is everything.
This is the relief.
I mean, the relief and the aid, the relief aids and the commercial things.
This is at the best.
Scott Paul from Oxfam has told me before that the Saudis also intentionally hold up the inspection regime of the ships so that by the time the food gets offloaded, it's all rotten and spoiled.
Is that still the case?
Exactly, rotten.
Sometimes, yes, it gets rotten, yes.
And this is, this is known to everyone.
The food gets rotten because, because of holding up, yes.
They hold up until it gets rotten.
Yes.
This is a problem.
All right.
Now, let me ask you.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
Yes.
You can imagine now, you can imagine when I say 10%, 10% than it was before the war is, is allowed in, you can then imagine what would this 10%, what would, what would it do for the majority of Yemenis, the majority of population, the vast majority of population?
And this is the only lifeline.
There is nothing more.
There is no other line for, for, for getting food from any place.
It's, it's, it's, it's the only place.
So you can, you can now imagine the suffering and the problem that Saudi Arabia is, is, is making.
Hold on just one second.
Be right back.
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All right, now let me ask you this.
I'm not sure.
Oh, I know you've got a pretty good presence on Twitter too.
I'm sure you've noticed this, that there is a Saudi public relations campaign.
It's pretty transparent to go around searching for people talking about Yemen and then to pipe up and say, no, it's the Houthis who are the terrorists and the war criminals.
And for example, they deprive people of food and, you know, deliberately in such a famine and they use child soldiers.
And so the Saudis are the good guys in this war and that's meant to neutralize opposition to American support for the Saudi side.
And I know that you've told me before, you're no Houthi.
You're just a reporter from Sanaa, you know, calling the score here.
And you've told me before that, I think it was your nephew, you said temporarily fought for the Saudis and their militia just for the money because he had to, there's no other work to have.
So he went and even fought for the other side.
I know it's a real mess on the ground over there.
So I think, you know, what is the truth to that?
How bad are the Houthis really?
And he's still until now, my nephew is still in the prison until now.
But let me tell you something.
Sure.
That's very important.
The campaign about the campaign, the Saudi campaign that is in UN Security Council and the Congress and everywhere saying that Houthi is terrorist.
You should restore the resignation.
You should label Houthi as a terrorist.
Because see, Houthi is attacking us, Houthi is attacking Saudi airborne, Houthi is attacking Saudi cities.
That's right.
It's okay.
It's okay.
But would anyone know, would anyone know why Houthi is doing this?
I mean, isn't it also terrorism to kill Yemenis for six years and to kill them by bombings and by stabbing and by everything?
So it's okay.
I mean, it's bad to attack Saudi Arabia airborne and it's bad to attack Saudi cities and it's okay.
But what about Yemenis?
What about Yemenis?
They are being killed, being starved to death.
So what would Saudis say about Yemenis?
Aren't they also human beings?
I mean, aren't they also worthy of being protected?
Yemenis are not worthy of being protected.
They are.
I mean, we are human beings.
Yemenis are worthy of being protected by U.S. and by the world, by the international community.
So they should say, and what the U.S. and the Congress and the U.N. Security Council, they also should remember that Houthis, Saudis are killing Yemenis for six years without being held accountable by anyone.
This is the point.
Right.
As far as child soldiers go, do you have a comment about that?
Is that true?
Yes.
So this is something that is not right, because if we talk in the American standards or in the European standards, it would be something like this.
It would be, I mean, I would say there are child soldiers, yes, but from both sides at the same level, at the same degree.
This is the culture.
This is the prevailing culture for everyone.
I mean, if the Saudi-backed government is using this to deceive the people outside Yemen, they are wrong, because there is a problem in everything, of course.
And I couldn't deny this, but this is something that is being done by everyone.
Well, I'm not going to prove that.
I mean, it's in The Guardian.
Maybe Saudis are recruiting child soldiers more than anyone else.
Well, they certainly are recruiting them.
There's a report in The Guardian that the British special boat services train them, even.
And let me just tell you, the coups, the reason for this is the poverty.
They just, they don't have something to eat.
The only way to go is to go for this or that, to be recruited, to be a soldier, to have a salary and then to support your family.
This is a part of the war.
Child soldiers is a part of the war, of the Saudi war, of the Saudi war, and they know this very well.
It's a problem, but it's a part of the war and it is being used by Saudi Arabia as also as a weapon in the war.
Right.
Yep.
And again, I mean, that's in The Guardian that the British special operations forces train Saudi child soldiers or Saudi recruited child soldiers in this fight.
Exactly.
You see, yes, yes.
We know it.
I told you about my nephew and I told you about a lot of stories and this is something very familiar.
Right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Now, I guess we'll end with Al-Qaeda.
I want to talk first or let you explain about the humanitarian situation.
And this I know is so frustrating to you and it is to me, too, that the worst of the official numbers, including from deprivation and everything else, are still right around 100 something thousand Yemenis, which is absolutely impossible after six years of war and famine and deprivation by so many desperately poor people.
And it was was it what, three, four years ago, I guess it was three years ago.
Right.
Where you took The New York Times around and showed their photographers these dying babies and they put that finally in The New York Times Weekend magazine to show to people in Manhattan there.
And so I just wonder, you know, I mean, say whatever you want about the humanitarian situation to help people to understand what's really going on.
A humanitarian situation is getting from from bad to worse.
It's not from bad to worse.
Let me say it's from the worst from the worst humanitarian situation to even worse.
This is something that we see with our own eyes every day, because nothing has changed.
Saudi Arabia and the U.S. and all allies are cutting off everything as a weapon of this war.
So things are getting worse and worse, of course, in terms of food, in terms of fuel, in terms of jobs, in terms of everything.
And for the casualties, now U.S. I mean, U.N. said that its statistics show that two hundred and fifty thousand Yemenis are dead by the end of 2020.
I would say now that it's even more.
And according to my according to my observations, rough observations, I'm roughly estimating it's me and other people, not only me.
It's even more because now, for example, this this month, this this month, we have hundreds of people dead and injured from civilians and from soldiers and here in these in these recent battles.
And not only this, those who also those who are also being killed by not going abroad for treatment, those who are being killed by not having enough food, children who are being killed by malnutrition.
So there should be statistics, I wish, if there if there is.
But there is no, because it's a part of this dirty campaign of Saudi Arabia that is supported by U.S., unfortunately, not to not to not to tell people, not to inform people.
They want to disinform.
They want to mislead.
They want to misinform because it's a part of their world.
They want to avoid the pressure.
This is why they are misleading, misinforming the world about the real things on the ground.
So I would expect that it's about 300 Yemenis are dead now by this war, now, now at the beginning of this of 2021, because we see a lot of things, a lot of people being killed, a lot of people being stabbed to death.
We see in in our cities, in our villages everywhere.
So I mean, what what could we say?
What should we say when we are seeing something like this happening?
And we should tell people that we see people being killed.
We see people being stabbed to death because of this war.
They are human beings.
So we can't say now it's only if there is a bombing, if there is only a bomb dropped by Saudi Arabia, and then we go and see how many people were killed.
No.
Now, everything is everything is because of the war or everyone being killed is because of this war, mostly.
All right, well, I don't know if you saw this, Nasser, but there's a report from the United Nations estimating that 400,000 Yemeni children under five could starve to death this year.
They say that there are two million children.
Yes, this is why this is what I'm telling you now.
Of course.
I'm saying I'm seeing these reports and seeing the reality.
I'm seeing families, relatives, friends.
I'm hearing and seeing these things on the ground every day.
The time I'm speaking, as I'm speaking with you now, I see and hear many things of this.
I have some people with me today, just now, who have been and still telling me about very bad things in their village because they just they they they came just now.
So it's it's it's it's very dead.
You are by all standards.
And OK, listen, so let's talk about Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
As people may or may not be aware, the USA started with the war against AQAP in 2009.
Well, there's some backstory there, but mostly Obama's big drone war started in 2009 and helped to precipitate this crisis.
And that was the New York Times was very interested in what you had to say about America's war against AQAP, but not so much about America's war for them the last six years.
But now that oh, you know what?
We've talked about this in the past, Nasser, is that in at the beginning of the who the regime's control of the capital city there, they cut a deal with Central Command and the military, the U.S. military was passing them intelligence to use to kill AQAP.
It's in The Wall Street Journal and it's in Al-Monitor, a great piece by Barbara Slavin quoting Michael Vickers, the deputy secretary of defense for intelligence, explaining the whole thing.
But guess what?
It's our new secretary of defense, Lloyd Austin.
He was the guy who was the general in charge of Central Command, who was working with the Houthis against AQAP.
And he was the one that Mark Perry had quoted in that Al Jazeera article who was spitting mad about Obama doing this and betraying our new allies against our enemy terrorists in favor of our enemy terrorists against our new allies.
And so then Mark wrote a thing recently in Foreign Policy that said that he that General Austin was going to write a scathing letter to President Obama denouncing him.
But his general friends, you know, talked him out of it and made him not do it anyway.
So he's the guy who's the secretary of defense right now.
So I don't mean to sound like I'm excited that there's going to be a war against AQAP or anything like that.
But I guess I am a little bit hopeful that his point of view here means that he must be forcefully arguing against the current war for AQAP, which is what he knew very well is what was going on here and that he was very opposed to at the time.
And he's, you know, he's a general.
So he's not like a strong ideologue or an agent of the Israelis or the Saudis or some kind of political creature in that way.
He's a political creature in another way, I guess.
But I don't think he cares so much how the Saudis feel about things.
You know, why would he?
But so anyway, I wonder what you think, what you can tell us about the change in the status of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in the last six years and what this war has done for them and what you and the people of Yemen and the Americans face in the ongoing war against AQAP once this war finally does come to an end and we switch back to the last war again.
Yes, very good thing, very good analysis, very good insight what you said now.
But let me tell you something.
Last week, they said that the Qaeda leader Khaled Batafi is dead.
And just it was only two or three days.
And it turned out that he's still alive, because he emerged in a video saying, I'm still alive.
And was he leading a UAE battalion on the ground against the Houthis?
This is Khaled Batafi, he is the one who was controlling the Mukalla, that is the far east city in the far east of Yemen.
And then UAE played that game when they said we controlled, when UAE backed by U.S.
And they said we controlled the city of Mukalla that was held by Qaeda overnight.
And we talked in many issues of yours about this.
And I told you it was a farce.
It was just a stage.
It was nothing.
It was just theatrics.
It's nothing.
Because now, unfortunately, Qaeda is being used by UAE and United States deliberately or I mean intentionally or unintentionally to repeat the same games, the old games that would do the same problems and repeat the same problems in Yemen and in United States and in the region, unfortunately.
Because there is no, there is no solutions for the roots.
There is no solutions for the causes of the problem.
They are, now they are using Qaeda factions, Qaeda and ISIS and Salafis and Brotherhood and they are using them as cards to achieve some of Saudis and some of U.S., if you will, policies or targets or goals.
But unfortunately, without knowing what's happening on the ground.
So now Qaeda is, the leader last week, as I told you, saying I'm here, I'm not dead.
What does this mean?
It means that they are being deceived.
They are being misled.
Who?
The U.S. intelligence and UAE or they are being, they are using them intentionally to play some politics, to play some cards, to gain some things.
And what's happening on the ground is the same, is getting worse and worse in terms of humanitarian things.
So it's still the same and the dirty games are still being played, unfortunately.
Yeah.
All right, Nasser, I'll let you go.
Thank you very much.
Have a good evening.
And I really appreciate you coming on the show and keeping us up to date on all of this.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Scott, for having me always and for your interest in Yemen.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
All right.
We'll talk again soon, my friend.
Okay.
Okay.
You're most welcome.
Anytime.
Thank you.
The Scott Horton Show, Antiwar Radio can be heard on KPFK 90.7 FM in L.A., APSradio.com, Antiwar.com, ScottHorton.org, and LibertarianInstitute.org.
