All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show.
I am the Director of the Libertarian Institute, Editorial Director of Antiwar.com, author of the book Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan, and I've recorded more than 5,000 interviews going back to 2003, all of which are available at scotthorton.org.
You can also sign up for the podcast feed.
The full archive is also available at youtube.com slash scotthorton show.
You guys, on the line, I've got John Kiriakou.
He fought the terror wars for the CIA, and then they put him in prison for confirming the identity of some CIA torturers.
The only person to be punished for George W. Bush's torture program, you know, above officer level anyway, and certainly the only CIA officer who was punished.
And now he's an antiwar guy, I think pretty much, fair to say, and writes great articles about lots of important things.
Welcome back to the show, John.
How are you?
Thanks.
Doing well, thanks.
Good to talk to you again.
Yeah, man.
There's a lot going on right now, and you've got this piece here, a terrible take on the capital storming, and that is in reference to a former associate of yours, former CIA officer Robert Grenier, who readers of Fool's Errand will remember was the station chief in Islamabad at the dawn of the terror war.
And he gave an interview to NPR News saying this and that about al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the capital mob and the American right and some things.
And I wonder if you could explain a little bit here, maybe even read the quote if you've got it, about what it is he was getting at there.
You know what?
I'm going to pull up the quote.
What he talked about in an op-ed in the New York Times two weeks ago today, as a matter of fact, was the fact that we need to treat events, insurrections, like we saw on January the 6th here in Washington, as insurgencies.
And with insurgencies come counterinsurgencies.
And I said in my piece that I've known Grenier at all for a very long time, and what he means is we need to be killing people.
Well, killing people for what reason?
I say in my own piece that I was as sickened as everybody else was on January 6th.
I was as angry as everybody else was.
But we had a demonstration of some 15 or 20,000 people.
And we had, what, 500, 800 that actually went inside the capital and were violent.
And most of them were unarmed.
I think that there are accounts of three people who we know definitively were armed.
And you're in the New York Times saying that we need to treat this as a counterinsurgency.
Now what happens in counterinsurgencies is you go door to door and you bust down the door.
Sometimes you breach the door with explosives.
You grab everybody inside.
You zip tie them or cuff them.
You take them to some sort of an interrogation center, and then you just sort it all out later.
Well, we've got this thing called a constitution, and you can't do stuff like that.
So in whatever little way that I could, Scott, I wanted to lay down a marker and say this is wrong.
This is anti-American.
This is a violation of our constitutional rights, and we've got to put a stop to it.
I was disgusted that the New York Times gave him a platform to even spout this nonsense.
You know, and I'm so sorry.
I've been so buried.
I got the new book out and everything.
I'm going to send you a copy.
I've got enough now.
You're on the list.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
I hope you like it.
I'm pretty sure you will.
Oh, I know.
So my apology was I didn't even read the New York Times article, and I forgot there even was one.
I read in your piece that there was one, but I never got around to reading it.
I only read the NPR interview after the fact.
And then I just got stuck on this paragraph.
I just don't know what to do about it.
And here's what's so funny, John.
And man, I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the giant mess of a question I'm about to unload on you here.
Okay?
Okay.
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Thank you.
Thanks.
You take care.
See you.
All right, you guys.
That's John Kiriakou.
He is at ConsortiumNews.com.
