Sorry I'm late.
I had to stop by the Wax Museum again and give the finger to FDR.
We know Al-Qaeda, Zawahiri is supporting the opposition in Syria.
Are we supporting Al-Qaeda in Syria?
It's a proud day for America and by God we've kicked Vietnam syndrome once and for all.
Thank you very, very much.
I say it, I say it again.
You've been had.
You've been took.
You've been hoodwinked.
These witnesses are trying to simply deny things that just about everybody else accepts as fact.
He came, he saw, he died.
We ain't killing they army, but we killing them.
We be on CNN like Say Our Name been saying, say it three times.
The meeting of the largest armies in the history of the world.
Then there's going to be an invasion.
All right, you guys, introducing Nasser Araby.
He is a reporter out of Sanaa, Yemen, and he keeps the website Yemen Alon.
That's yemennow, yemenalon.com.
Welcome to the show.
Oh, it's yemennow.com.
Welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Thank you very much, thank you for having me.
Happy to have you on the show here.
So, listen, we've been talking for, essentially, since this stage of the war started in, I mean, the major war against the Houthi government in Sanaa there started in 2015.
The part of the war that's got our least attention, I guess, is the Southern Separatist Movement and their alliance with the UAE, because the UAE was allied with Saudi in the attempt to reinstall the old Hadi government.
And so the Southern Secessionist Socialist Movement, we kind of mentioned it from time to time, but it didn't seem to be playing a major role in the fight.
Their agenda was on hold until the end of the Houthi regime, it seemed like.
But so now there's a huge split that's developed between Saudi Arabia and the UAE, and for that matter, between the UAE and their allies in the Southern Secessionist Movement there, and I've lost track.
And so I was hoping that we could go over a little bit of the news of the recent weeks here about how this has developed since our last conversation about a month ago, or, you know, catch us up on all this.
I'll catch up with you, yes, I'll catch up with you on the most developments on this, on the Saudi-UAE alliance.
This alliance was nominal from the very beginning, and Saudi Arabia and the UAE were different in everything, from the very beginning also, and different in tactics, in strategies, in the agendas, in roles, and even the people on the ground, their proxies on the ground are enemies to each other.
So they are different in everything.
They are also different in what they want from Yemen, how they want to get out, the way forward and the way out.
So they are different in everything.
Now, after five years now, they are turning to each other.
They are turning against each other now.
They are fighting now, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
They are fighting, yes, not directly through their proxies, but not underground now.
It's open now.
They are using the fighter jets now against each other.
So, for example, if I tell you now about what happened in Aden earlier this month, September, the UAE proxies or the UAE-backed separatists took control over Aden, and they defeated the Saudi-backed forces, and they ejected them from Aden.
And then Saudi Arabia backed its forces on the ground, and they tried to retake Aden.
This is earlier September, or exactly on August 28th.
So when they tried to retake Aden, the UAE bombed them with airstrikes, with thin airstrikes.
They bombed them in a place where they were gathering, I mean, where the forces were gathering, somewhere outskirts of Aden, the interim capital of the exiled government.
And about 300 soldiers were killed and injured.
This is the statistics of the Defense Ministry of Hadi, not anyone.
There are other estimates who put the number even higher, but this is what they said, 300 soldiers and a lot of vehicles and armored vehicles and a lot of war equipments.
And this is not the new.
Maybe the new in this is not only the airstrikes, but also what the UAE said.
After the UAE hit the army of Hadi, killing 300 at least, killing and injuring 300 soldiers at least, they said explicitly, UAE said explicitly, we bombed the terrorists.
The terrorists were in their way to attack us, to attack the alliance, to attack the Saudi-UAE coalition.
This is what they said.
They said they were on their way to attack us.
Who, us?
They mean the Saudi and UAE coalition forces.
So this means that UAE considered all the army on the ground, that is the Saudi-backed army on the ground, terrorists.
Of course, this was a very, very big blow to the exiled government in Riyadh.
They held a meeting there in Riyadh and they came out with a very angry statement saying, we are not terrorists and we are going to the UN Security Council to complain and that we don't want UAE to be in the coalition anymore.
They wanted to remove UAE from the coalition.
But what happened later is this.
Only yesterday, Sunday, UAE and Saudi Arabia issued a statement, a joint statement, saying that they are united and they will continue to fight terrorists and they will continue to fight Houthis as a number one priority.
And they said, they called on the factions or on the militants of the separatists.
Actually, they called all parties on the south, this is Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, they called all parties on the south not to do any military actions and to stop any military actions and to stop the media propaganda.
And this statement also was understood that Saudi Arabia is in coordination, in full coordination with the United Arab Emirates in what it is doing.
And this is what happened exactly.
But let me tell you what it means.
What all this means that Saudi Arabia, as I've been always telling you all along, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates now are dividing.
Dividing the assets, dividing the assets of the war, dividing the gains of the war.
They are dividing the areas of the influence.
So, the United Arab Emirates are now in the capital, Aden, and Saudi Arabia is in Shabwa and Mahra, which means almost three provinces are under Saudi Arabia and three provinces from the sixth, of course, in the south, three provinces under the Saudi, three provinces under the UAE, including the interim capital, that is the south.
So, they are, what they are doing is dividing the influence, the areas of influence in the south between themselves.
And they are, of course, the rift is deepening, is getting deeper and deeper, of course, between them.
But they are still hoping to contain it.
And if you ask me, I think they are not going to contain even after these statements, the joint statement, because the rift is big and the cracks are very, very, very deep.
So, what I'm expecting is that they will end up in sort of all-out war at the end, because it's, they are now building up.
I don't want to forget by saying that there are joint statements, because these joint statements, we are very familiar to them.
We are very used to them, because what's happening on the ground is completely different.
What's happening on the ground now, even after the statement of yesterday, that UAE and Saudi Arabia are okay and no problem, but they are building up their forces in the areas of their influences in the south.
And, of course, Houthi is very happy, and he's getting stronger and stronger.
And maybe now, the United States itself wants to talk with Houthi, because maybe the only strong one on the ground is Houthi.
The Assistant US Secretary of State, David Shanker, only this week, said that he's in direct talks with Houthi.
And this means that Houthi is very, very happy now, and he's the big winner now.
And the others are against each other.
Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are busy, busy fighting each other and killing each other.
You know, this whole thing, I mean, ever since Saleh allied with the Houthis back years ago, and ever since Obama stabbed the Houthis in the back after allying with them against al-Qaeda, and then two months later, allied with al-Qaeda and Saudi against them, this war has been absolutely as absurd as it is cruel.
It's just the most unbelievable thing.
Okay, so talk to me a little bit more then about the relationship between the Southern Transitional Council and the UAE.
Are they just sock puppets of the UAE?
I mean, I know there's like a pretty big cultural split.
It used to be, you know, North and South Yemen divided.
And, you know, the Southern, I guess, the population around Aden, they don't want to be ruled by the Houthis.
Do they want to be ruled by Hadi?
I guess not Hadi either.
But what about the UAE?
Or what's their level of, you know, puppetry or subordination to UAE and their goals?
Well, this is, their subordination now is 100%, of course, subordination and everything.
They are puppets.
They are UAE puppets.
They can't do anything.
They can't take any decision at all without UAE.
But what they want, they want, of course, independence.
They want independent state in the South.
And this independent state in the South is in the interest of UAE now, 100%.
And not necessarily with the same level in the interest of Saudi Arabia.
So this is why they are, I mean, the tension is still rising, because the interest, there is an interest conflict between UAE and Saudi Arabia in the South.
So for the South, for the separatists in particular, they want to separate, but they are not representing all the South.
This is also one important thing.
But the people who are now under the UAE, I mean, the separatists who are under the UAE, they are now strong because of the full support of UAE, because of the training, because of the finance, because of the equipment and military hardware and advanced vehicles and all these sorts of things.
So they are okay.
They say, we want to continue.
We want to continue to be in the coalition.
They don't say, we are not in the coalition.
They say, we are in the coalition under Saudi leadership, but we want our own state, our own independent state in the South.
And we don't want the brotherhood.
Of course, when they say we don't want the brotherhood, the Islah Bati, they mean the people of Saudi Arabia.
They don't want the brotherhood means we don't want the people under Saudi Arabia, because all the people under Saudi Arabia who are labeled now by UAE as terrorists, the army is all terrorists in the opinion of UAE, they mean the brotherhood.
And it's very, very complicated.
It's not easy to tell, but it's always like this.
UAE sees the brotherhood as enemy number one in Yemen, not Houthi, not anyone else.
And brotherhood is the main, is the core force of Saudi Arabia, the core force of the proxies of Saudi Arabia in Yemen, South and North.
So, this is how their interests are complicated and not easy and overlapped, of course, not easy to be two things even or to be okay, to be, for example, this is yours and this is mine.
No, the Saudis and Emiratis can't say this.
And they can't reach this point of saying, okay, this is yours and this is mine.
They can't at all because it's very, very complicated.
And this is why they are fighting each other.
They are turning on each other.
Hang on just one second.
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All right, now, so after all these years of war, four and a half years of war, counting now this phase of it again, or in the larger sense, there's been smaller phases within it.
But you know what I mean.
Since the war against the Houthis, began.
Yes.
So how many, and there's been all this coverage in the Associated Press and CNN and all over the place about UAE support for Al-Qaeda.
They hate the Muslim Brotherhood, which in this case, for some reason, the Saudis favor, even though the Saudis hate them everywhere else.
You know, the Saudis did a military coup in Egypt against the Muslim Brotherhood, but here they support them.
But the UAE supports the Al-Qaeda guys.
And according to CNN, they're driving around in American MRAP, mine resistant armored personnel carriers that Robert Gates had built a couple years ago here.
And I wonder what you think is a, you know, honest estimate, a good ballpark estimate of their numbers now.
Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the guys that bombed the USS Cole, the guys that tried to blow up the plane over Detroit, the guys that the Obama government was at war against before they went to war for them.
You know, Al-Qaeda and ISIS will not find a better chance than this.
Al-Qaeda and ISIS will not find a better environment than this.
Al-Qaeda and ISIS will not better find equipment and weapons and ammunition and money more than now.
Because they are on the ground, as I told you, as I've been telling you all along.
They are on the ground and they are with both, with the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
But they have their own agendas and they have their own goals.
And they just now use this kind of floundering, if you will, floundering coalition.
And I mean, very, very weak and very confused coalition.
And they use them, they take advantage of this kind of coalition, and they strengthen themselves.
They expand, they recruit, they are better than ever before.
The last time when I talked to you in this show, I told you that they carried out five operations at the same time, five suicide bombings on a military base in Aden.
It was just a message that we are here, we can do anything, we can do whatever we want.
And on the following day, they seized a camp, a military camp in the second province after Aden, Abyan, with all its equipment and all its vehicles and all its ammunition and everything.
They killed, they injured, they detained, and they took the whole military base.
What does this mean?
They mean that they can get out from their hideouts whenever they want.
And they can do whatever they want and however they want and whenever they want.
So this means that they are very, very strong.
And this is what the bad and these miscalculations of this war, this is how it is used by Qaeda and ISIS to recruit and expand in the South now, at least.
Oh, man.
So, and now talk about the recent airstrikes.
There was a huge one where they bombed a prison that I was reading up on antiwar.com this morning.
It said that the prison was full of pro-Saudi regime, pro-Hadi regime detainees, essentially, political prisoners being held by the Houthis.
And that was who the Saudis dropped the bomb right on their heads.
This is very, very good question because this question is related to a lot of things and it will, it will give you, it will make the picture very clear to you and your audience.
When Saudi Arabia came to the Mar, 100 kilometers from where I am now, just south of Sana'a, they came and bombed the prison with 10, at least 10 airstrikes in the middle of night, killing all people, everyone, killing everyone and bombing it to ground, bombing the prison to ground, killing everyone.
I'm saying everyone, honestly, not, I'm not exaggerating because it's 10 airstrikes on a place, on a, on a basement of a colleague, you know?
Well, the reports we had was, it was 130 people were killed.
Is that right?
This is, this is, this is, this is the first or the second day, 135, but there were 185 people, 185 people.
That's about 200, 185 people asleep.
You're saying that the, the, the number 130 or 135, that came from just the initial reports, but later on they, they found more bodies.
Yeah, 135 is the second day.
They say 130, that 100, they found 130, 130 dead bodies.
This is right.
Yes.
At the beginning it was only 50, then 100, then 120, 130 dead bodies, right?
But there were 180, then 180, 85 prisoners in the, in the, in the prison and all of them were killed and injured.
So now we have about 30 at most seriously injured in the hotel, in the, in the hospital, at least, at most, who are, who are now still at the hotels, at the, at the hospitals, I mean, 30 seriously injured from the 185.
So, about 150 who were killed.
Okay.
Let me now tell you, what does also this mean?
Why Saudi Arabia came and bombed all these people?
They know, came and bombed all these people.
They know that the prison was known to everyone.
ICRC was visiting the place almost every week or every two weeks.
They know, Saudi Arabia knows very well that this is the prison and this is the prison of the people who were fighting with me.
Saudi Arabia knows this very well.
Why Saudi Arabia came?
Why Saudi Arabia came to bomb its people, the people who fought with it?
Do you know why?
Because the reason is this.
After the airstrikes in Aden, after the airstrikes in Aden killed about 300 soldiers, there were calls from South and from North, from the people, from the leaders and from Saudi Arabia, from Turkey, from Qatar, from, there were calls, there were calls to the people, the Yemenis, Yemeni missionaries who are fighting with Saudi Arabia.
These calls were, come home, leave the Saudi Arabia front.
Don't fight with Saudi Arabia anymore because Saudi Arabia are conspiring against us.
Saudi Arabia are supporting UAE to kill us, to kill our fighters, to kill our singer.
So leave them, return home, go home.
And they, of course, responded.
A lot of people responded.
A lot of fighters in the border with Saudi Arabia, a lot of Yemenis responded to this by making some demonstrations there.
There's demonstration, I'm saying demonstration.
This is a red line in Saudi Arabia to make demonstration in the street, let alone if you make a demonstration in a military base in Saudi Arabia.
So when Saudi Arabia knew that there are demonstrations in the military camps in the South, and they want to leave it alone, to leave the places, Saudi Arabia told them, no, if you do, I will do this.
If you do, if you leave me, I will kill you wherever you go.
So the message of bombing the prison was two things.
To the people who were there, as prisoners, why you surrendered to Houthi, this is your banishment.
And the second message was for the people who are still fighting with Saudi Arabia, don't think of leaving me.
Don't think of taking my money and don't fight with me.
Don't think of this anymore.
If you think of this, I will kill you.
If you think of this, if you go Yemen, I will follow you and kill you wherever you are.
This is the thing that can be read, because there is no other explanation.
Most of those people were fighting with Saudi Arabia in the border of Saudi Arabia, not fighting with Saudi Arabia in Yemen, in Taiz or in Aden in the South or somewhere.
No, most of them were prisoners who were held by Houthi in the border with Saudi Arabia.
Everybody knows this.
ICRC knows this.
And everybody knows this.
So why Saudi Arabia did this?
Because of this, because Saudi Arabia were afraid that more fighters will leave from the border.
And Saudi Arabia said, no, this is a red line.
You shouldn't do this.
You should continue.
You shouldn't do that.
This is one thing.
The other thing is the bombing on the prison came after a defeat, a big defeat on Saudi Arabia at the border, the eastern border of Saudi Arabia.
What is this defeat?
About two brigades.
That's about 8,000 missionaries.
Let me tell you what kind of missionaries.
They are very young people who went to make money for their families.
Most of them were very young.
Most of them were under 15 or say under 18.
Let me be honest with you, because I know some of them.
I have some relatives, to be very honest with you.
I have some relatives with them, because they went there to make money for their families.
So these people were not trained enough.
Some of them spent only two months or three months in that camps.
So they were under a very hardliner who is Salafi, who is very enemy, who is very, who is hating Houthi very, very much.
And he led them to this kind of holocaust because he hates Houthi.
And Saudi Arabia didn't even rescue them.
Houthi now is talking about hundreds of prisoners in that battle.
But not only Houthi.
Houthi is still quiet.
I mean, the families, the people and the social media are talking now about this.
And it's because we are talking about two brigades, about two camps who were in one, in a very botched, in a very failed battle.
And they were blockaded and surrounded.
And then everything was gone.
Everything was gone.
Everything in these two military places.
Until now, Houthi is still in their positions.
Until now.
And the military places are gone.
And you can just imagine now, Saudi Arabia was in a very, very bad situation.
And this is why they came and bombed the prison.
Because they didn't want this to happen again.
Because a lot of people would say that the leader who is against Houthi, who is declaring his hostility against Houthi, but they said he surrendered.
He was colluding.
He was conspiring with Houthi.
This is what some people say.
Because a lot of people didn't understand how this could happen.
How this happened.
How 8,000 people were gone in a matter of three days or four days.
Despite all the support from Saudi Arabia.
So Saudi Arabia, when they came to bomb the prison, they wanted just to give messages to Houthi and to its missionaries and also to everyone.
Because it was in a very, very, very bad situation after these two things.
After these two defeats.
One in the south, because its army was hit by UAE airplanes.
And not only bombing, but also with UAE saying they are terrorists.
I bombed terrorists.
I didn't bomb anyone.
I bombed terrorists who were on their way to attack the coalition, the Saudi Emirati coalition.
And the second defeat was in its border.
That's about the two military bases I told you about now.
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And thanks.
All right, now, so let's talk about the Houthis hits inside Saudi Arabia.
It's been a few years now since they've been able to hit Riyadh.
But they've had these successful drone attacks.
And it seems like that must be, well, in fact, we talked about that last time.
That's sort of the predicate, it seems like, for these new talks where the Americans, somebody decided to go and send this guy Schenker to go and talk to the Houthis.
And so it must have been that, right?
The Americans only understand one thing, force.
Yeah, exactly.
Not only this.
Other military officials said clearly, after the statement, the remarks of David Schenker in Riyadh, they said clearly, but I can't remember the name of the military official who said this.
He said, well, we can guarantee, we can guarantee, we can protect our interest, the US interest everywhere in the Gulf and everywhere.
But we can't, he said, but we can't guarantee, we can't protect, he didn't say guarantee, he said, but we can't protect the interest of our allies, the interest of Saudi Arabia and UAE, in particular, he mentioned them in particular by names.
So this is what he said.
We can't protect you from Houthi or from Iran, but we can protect our interest.
This is what he said, you know, so.
Tough love, long overdue.
Yes, exactly.
And so now, but what's happening with the talks here?
I mean, is he, are the Americans really talking to the Houthis about trying to find a way to end this war?
Or this is just a little kind of a peace feeler?
Or what do you think?
I think, I think what's going to happen is, is this, is this.
If US, if Trump wants to keep his allies, his allies, Saudi Arabia and UAE intact, or if they want, if he wants to keep them and their money out of these big losses, he could do it.
He could, he could, he could do it.
He could convince them, especially Saudi Arabia, because UAE now is convinced.
They want, UAE now is realizing that peace is okay.
They, they want peace now, but Saudi Arabia is still reluctant because Saudi Arabia is not, is not yet convinced as much as UAE.
But Trump can convince them if he's, if he's, if he's serious to, to convince them.
But now, Saudi, Houthis, Houthis did not confirm and they did not deny, of course, the talks.
But I, if I, if you ask me, I would tell you that USA, with USA talking about talks with, with Houthi is a very big, is a very big win.
It's a big for Houthi.
It's a, it's, it's something, it's something that Houthi is looking for, regardless of the talks.
So Houthi is very happy with these things because it tells the world that how powerful is Houthi and how, how, how better is he now after five years of, of failed war.
So I think if Trump is serious, this talks would, would, would, would pay off.
But only if Saudi Arabia is, if Saudi Arabia is involved and if Saudi Arabia is convinced.
Otherwise, it will be nothing, of course, the talks will be, will be useless.
All right.
Now, so I want to ask you, lastly here, although not least, the most important thing of all here is about the civilian casualties.
And, you know, maybe there are some people listening to the show here, this interview who haven't heard you before and don't know the history of this, but we talked for years and years about how the casualty rate was climbing into the tens of thousands here and up to and above a hundred thousand, according to your count.
All the while, all of Western media continued to repeat what amounted to an ancient estimate of 10,000 killed that was claimed by the United Nations years ago.
And as you said, and, you know, the guy was even on the show.
I interviewed him myself, Mick Goldrick.
The UN official said he was perfectly happy to admit that that was the best they could do at the time, but they weren't saying that that was the limit on the number of people who have been killed or anything like that.
And still, that was, I think in 2000 and maybe 16 or 17 was the last time when he said that, but then they just continue to quote that all of this time.
But there's a recent UN report now that came out a few months ago that says that 233,000 people have been killed.
And if I remember it right, I think I have it right that they're saying that's just directly in violence in the war.
And that includes 85,000 children.
And then so, but that doesn't include all the people who have starved or died of cholera or other easily treatable diseases and poverty and other sicknesses because of the deprivation of the war.
We don't have those numbers entirely.
But I have read that the cholera epidemic has returned this summer.
But I have not read very much about it.
I haven't seen very much about it to read.
And I was wondering if you could just let the people know what the humanitarian conditions are for the people of Yemen here now.
The figure of UN is very funny.
And everybody now knows that it's very funny.
It's not right.
And even UN, you know, when I challenged the UN representative in Yemen, it's three years ago.
But now we are in the, we are almost at the end of the fifth year, consecutive year.
So it's UN now, the recent reports of UN, as you said, show the number as 250,000, including, of course, the people who were killed by war-related reasons, that is, you know, by starvation or by malnutrition.
But this number is still not exact because my estimates, which is based on my reporting from the very, from the first day, from the day one, not only me with a lot of activists and a lot of journalists and a lot of groups.
So it's now 100,000.
It's 100,020 now, 100,020.
And I'm talking about civilians and not civilians who were killed in homes, schools, hospitals, weddings, funerals, farms, and all these places who are very civilian places.
So this number is not, I mean, many, many groups now are very close to this number.
There are many groups who are outside and who are outside Yemen and inside Yemen who are talking about 70,000, who are talking about 80,000, not including the people who were killed by cholera or by malnutrition.
No, but the people who were killed by Saudi-UAE airstrikes, because they don't stop at all for five years now.
And they don't go to the battles.
They don't go to the front.
They come only to the homes and the villages and the bomb the people in their houses to make some pressure on the Houthi and to help their people.
This is what they are doing.
And until last week, when they came here to bomb a prison, which is known by everyone, including ICRC and Saudi Arabia and their coalition.
So they know it very well, but they came to bomb the prison and to kill everybody in the prison.
And this is what, this is how they are doing everywhere.
So the number is about 100,000, 120,000 now, according to my observations and according to my counting.
All right.
Well, listen, I really appreciate your time again on the show, Nasser.
I'll let you go here, but I want to let everybody know that they can find you on Twitter at N-A-R-R-A-B, that's N-A-R-R-A-B-Y-E-E on Twitter there.
And the website is yemen-now.com.
And Google translated all for you there.
Appreciate it very much again, Nasser.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for your interest in Yemen.
All right, y'all.
Thanks.
Find me at libertarianinstitute.org, at scotthorton.org, antiwar.com, and reddit.com slash scotthortonshow.
Oh yeah.
And read my book, Fool's Errand, Timed and the War in Afghanistan at foolserrand.us.
