For Pacifica Radio, July 7th, 2019.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is Anti-War Radio.
All right, y'all.
Welcome to the show.
It is Anti-War Radio.
I'm your host, Scott Horton.
I'm the author of the book, Fool's Errand, Time to End the War in Afghanistan.
And I'm the editorial director of antiwar.com.
You can find my full interview archive, more than 5,000 of them now, going back to 2003, at scotthorton.org.
All right, introducing this morning's guest.
It's Nasser Araby.
He's a journalist reporting out of Sana'a, Yemen.
Welcome back to this show.
Nasser, how are you doing?
Well, thank you very much.
Thank you very much for having me.
Very happy to have you again on the show here.
There have been a lot of developments in the Yemen war recently.
And so I wanted to start with the news about the United Arab Emirates.
And they're apparently shifting goals and strategies.
The Wall Street Journal makes it sound like they're really pulling out.
But there's some conflicting stories about that, including one major piece that was published in Al Arabi, saying that they're now building up a new militia force there.
Well, for United Arab Emirates, it's for sure withdrawing from Yemen.
Although they did not say it officially until now, because of course, the issue is very sensitive to say it now.
And for security reasons, they would not say anything now.
But Wall Street Journal was not the only one who said this.
Before Wall Street Journal, Reuters reported about this, and they're quoting four Western diplomats.
Four, I'm saying four Western diplomats, and many other witnesses in Yemen.
So it's not, it's now very clear that United Arab Emirates are withdrawing its forces from Yemen.
And this means failure and defeat.
In my opinion, this was a failure and defeat.
And this is what I have been telling you in your show all along, during the four years of this dirty war of Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.
So now the question would be, why now?
What are the reasons behind this withdrawal from Yemen?
This is the question that we can talk about.
Sure, go ahead.
Yes.
The reasons, of course, there are many reasons for the withdrawing of the United Arab Emirates.
There is at least three reasons.
One, that has to do with the security of United Arab Emirates, given the tension between United States and Iran now, the tension in the region.
After the threat between Iran and the United States.
So it's United Arab Emirates says now, I want to secure myself first.
This is what one can say that it is saying about itself.
I want to come back to take care of myself because the region is very dangerous.
So this is one reason.
The second reason is, or has something to do with the Saudi Emirati coalition.
And now the dispute and the differences between Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates can be seen now by anyone.
It's not hidden now.
It's visible and anyone can see these differences.
And it's not only differences, it's dispute, it's a growing conflict between Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
The most important thing why they are conflicting now is the difference of agendas, the difference of their agendas in Yemen.
What United States want from Yemen is completely different from what Saudi Arabia wants from Yemen.
So they are in big conflict.
Also, not only their wishes, but also their allies on the ground.
They are supporting, I mean, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia are supporting opposite sides on the ground.
So Saudi Arabia is supporting the brotherhood, the Salahabadi, the Yemen brotherhood, and the brotherhood is the enemy of United Arab Emirates.
So United Arab Emirates is supporting the separatists in the south, who are also the enemy of the brotherhood.
So this is the second reason.
The second reason is that the growing conflict between Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
The third reason is the international one, the international reason.
That's the United Arab Emirates wants to keep its image not stained or tarnished like Saudi Arabia now, because you know what is happening in the United States now, in the Congress, and what they are talking about, about the worst humanitarian crisis in the world that is being made in Yemen by Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.
So UAE or United Arab Emirates wants to save face, to get out before it loses everything.
So this is the third reason.
Then, I mean, of course, other reasons, but let me now move to what Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates, or what could happen after this?
What is the next step?
I mean, these are the reasons, but what does it mean now?
What does this Emirati withdrawal, what does it mean?
Or what would it mean to Saudi Emirati coalition?
It means simply that the coalition, the Saudi Emirati coalition is almost dead now, because Saudi Arabia would not continue alone.
It is very difficult for Saudi Arabia to continue alone in Yemen, because they were only dancing.
They were only two dancing.
Now Saudi Arabia can't continue dancing alone.
It can't at all in Yemen.
Although, of course, the interest of Saudi Arabia is different, as we know, but it can't continue in fighting alone, because everybody knows that Saudi Arabia failed to defeat Houthi militarily.
So the only thing that Saudi Arabia can do now is to negotiate with Houthi, directly with Houthi, if it wants to save face.
Otherwise, it will cause face or meet more and more defeats.
This is what their enemies or their rivals want, of course, to happen to Saudi Arabia.
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Scott Horton, anti-war radio.
I'm talking with Nasser Araby, reporter out of Sana'a, Yemen.
Okay, so you make a great point there that these two have been working together.
And if the UAE really is withdrawing here, then that is going to cripple the Saudis' effort.
And the line in the Saudis' effort to take Sana'a hasn't moved in a couple of years now.
They're stuck far outside of the eastern outskirts of the capital city, right?
Yes, it's, as I told you, it's, they completely failed.
And it's complete defeat, because now the United Arab Emirates is withdrawing from the most important places, the most sensitive places, from, from the western coast in Hodeidah, and from the south, which means Saudi Arabia would be alone.
And this would be also very dangerous for its allies on the ground, which is the Brotherhood, and some of the Haida and ISIS grassroots.
Yeah, well, and so now let's talk a little bit about that.
I saw one story said, UAE has decided to withdraw and focus all their efforts on fighting Al-Qaeda and ISIS, which I thought you would think was funny.
We talked before about how that's going to be difficult since they're inside the UAE's army on the ground, they're participating in their war.
And so yeah, I wonder what is supposed to happen with that, I guess, as the UAE withdraws, these guys are left to their own devices.
Could you give us a real ballpark estimate of how many Al-Qaeda slash ISIS fighters you think really are there now?
Very good.
This is very funny to say that the United Arab Emirates is focusing on Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
No, this is not right at all.
Because it's the people who fight on the ground with the United Arab Emirates are called the Salafis.
This is the best name people give, or the best name United Arab Emirates gives for them.
These Salafis, these militants are the grassroots of Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
These are the only people who fight with the United Arab Emirates, especially in the western coast.
In the south in particular, they are a combination of separatists and militants of Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
So almost all those who fight on the ground are militants of separatists and Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
Those are the people who fight with Al-Qaeda and fight with the United Arab Emirates and ISIS.
And this is not only me who was talking this.
Of course, there are many reports who talked about this, especially the famous one in the CNN about the graveyard of the US military hardware in the command of the Al-Qaeda and ISIS militants.
This is something very clear.
They have camps, they receive money, they receive salaries, they receive equipment, weapons, American weapons as fighters on the ground, but they are just with different labels, but they are the same people who work with Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and who have their own agenda and have their own plans.
They are not only missionaries, no, but they know what to do and how to take money and how to take weapons and how to plan for themselves and their enemy, who is the United States number one, of course.
Their enemy is the United States.
So this is why we want the media in the West and everywhere to know that the United Arab Emirates is either misleading or they are ignorant or I don't know what's the problem, but they are working, they are fighting alongside with Al-Qaeda and ISIS and not fighting Al-Qaeda as they say.
All right.
Now, so in the past, you've talked about how the CIA drone war against Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula that preceded the current war for them against their enemies, the Houthis, that it actually had succeeded in killing enough of their leadership that when the later split between Al-Qaeda in Syria and Al-Qaeda in general, and on one hand, and the Islamic State on the other hand happened in Syria back in 2013, that that real split didn't mean that much in Yemen, that Al-Qaeda and ISIS essentially weren't enemies in that power struggle way, like we saw between Jolani and Baghdadi, and that they continued to just work together because it was all the younger guys who didn't really have any part in those old conflicts.
But then if you could talk about that, and also if you could bring in Al-Islah, the Muslim Brotherhood party there, and and describe their relationship with these Al-Qaeda guys, they're outright enemies, or that's just their Saudi and UAE sponsors that have these differences.
Yes, this is a very, very, very good point.
This is why we, I mean, if we talk about these points, then people would understand why we say the people fighting on the ground are Al-Qaeda people, Al-Qaeda and ISIS, or at least from their grassroots.
Saudi Arabia now is hosting, or in their hotel in Riyadh, they receive or they're hosting about, say, seven leaders who are in the blacklist of U.S. and U.N.
Some of them are governors, and some of them are ministers in the so-called legitimate government of Yemen, supported by, or based in Riyadh, not only supported.
It is not, it is Riyadh.
So this government, this so-called government, has at least six people who are ministers and governors in, by their names or as by their capacities only, but they can't come to Yemen.
So they are blacklisted as, or designated as terrorists.
And you can make sure, your audience can make sure of some of them.
For example, I can mention some names now, and they are in the website of the U.S. Treasury Department and many other websites.
So those people in Riyadh are the commanders of Qaeda and ISIS.
And they are instructing their people in Marib, in Beida, and Abyan, and many other places.
And they send them the money, the equipment, and everything as they call them the resistance.
They call them the national resistance.
And they call the army the national army.
And everybody knows who are they, and who are their, and who is their commanders.
So this is why we say Qaeda, ISIS are fighting, are fighting with, are fighting alone, sometimes with U.S. and their allies in Yemen, because they have another name.
They have, they call them resistance, they call them national army, and these things.
Yeah, the moderate rebels.
Okay, but now, so what's the Al-Qaeda guy's relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood, Islam party there?
Yes, the Qaeda, the files, the rank and files of Brotherhood.
This is historically known.
The grassroots and the rank and files of the Brotherhood are Qaeda, whether the big names or the medium names or the small names.
They come from the Brotherhood.
The Qaeda people, Qaeda leaders in their different levels are coming from Brotherhood, from Osama Bin Laden to Zawahiri to any of those people whom we hear every day.
Well, for example, though, I mean, Zawahiri hates and denounces the Muslim Brotherhood for being a bunch of sellouts, for not being a bunch of radical Leninist terrorists like him.
So that doesn't, and after all, Baghdadi and Zawahiri split and they're carbon copies of each other.
They're just fighting over power and influence rather than any real ideological split.
I mean, I guess Baghdadi wanted the caliphate sooner, not later, but otherwise they're essentially the same thing.
Exactly, exactly.
But I mean, the Islam party, they supported Hadi, but Al-Qaeda didn't, right?
Yes, they supported Hadi also technically.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Nasser, I don't know anything about it.
If you want to lump them all together, as far as I know, you're right, but I'm also searching for distinctions too, if there are any, just for discrimination's sake that we can tell the difference between exactly who's who over there as best we can.
You're right, you're right.
Thank you very much, because I want you to ask the thing, you ask me the thing that you feel that it's okay for your audience, because yes, as I told you, Qaeda, the people, the grassroots of brotherhood are Al-Qaeda people.
And the Qaeda sympathizers in every village here, they know that Qaeda has the same agenda and the same thing they want to do, whether in talking about Islamic caliphate or the overall goals of Islam or whatever they call it, but it's the same thing.
So they cooperate with them, they fight with them, they provide haven and provide shelters sometimes for the fugitives or runaway of Al-Qaeda.
And there is also some marriage ties, many connections between Al-Qaeda and brotherhood historically, not only from here.
Now, the leaders of brotherhood are based in Riyadh, all of them, from the top to bottom, all of them are in Riyadh, because they can't go anywhere.
They can't go to United Arab Emirates because United Arab Emirates look at them as enemies, but Saudi Arabia have only them as ally on the ground on Yemen.
And this is why they are in big dispute with the United Arab Emirates now, because they don't have anyone to ally.
They have only the brotherhood who are, some of them are designated as terrorists in Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
Hang on just one second.
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All right, it's Antiwar Radio.
I'm Scott Horton, and I'm talking with Nasser Arabi.
He's a reporter based out of Sana'a, Yemen.
And we've talked about this before, but I have another footnote.
And this is just so important.
And to help people understand, and we're going to talk about the civilian casualties here in a minute and why it really matters, but to understand the context of what all is going on here.
There's an article from January 29th, 2015 in the Wall Street Journal.
And it turns out now there's another great footnote here, Nasser.
It's my old friend, Barbara Slavin, who, yes, she's at the Atlantic Council, but she's a great reporter.
And she's done great work on Iran over the years, for example.
And she did a report from January, again, 2015, where they had hosted at the Atlantic Council, the Deputy Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, one of the higher leaders at the Pentagon.
And he talked all about how CENTCOM, that is American Central Command, was working with the Houthis and passing intelligence to the Houthis as they were taking over the capital city of Sana'a.
Hey, as long as they're helping us fight al-Qaeda, and the CENTCOM guys were giving intelligence to the Houthis, and the Houthis were using that intelligence to target and kill al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the guys that bombed the USS Cole in the year 2000, the guys that tried to blow up a plane over Detroit on Christmas Day 2009, the guys who did the Charlie Hebdo attack and another one or two of those attacks in the middle part of this decade in France, the cartridge plot where they tried to blow up a plane and other things like that.
These are real al-Qaeda guys, real, at their core at least, friends of bin Laden and Zawahiri, and determined to attack the United States.
And so, two months later, Barack Obama turned right around and stabbed the Houthis in the back and took al-Qaeda's side against them and launched this war that's now more than four years old, where, as we're talking about in this episode, the UAE and the Saudis never had the ability to march on the capital city and kick the Houthis out of there.
They're no closer to that goal than they were in, at least this time, 2016.
And so, the whole thing is a bust.
The whole thing is for nothing.
And, as we're about to hear about the civilian casualties, too, it's all essentially treason.
It's a war for al-Qaeda.
It's not just some kind of weird incident or coincidence.
When you have CNN talking about al-Qaeda guys driving around in American MRAPs, that's because the al-Qaeda guys were working for America and the UAE and the Saudis in this fight for the last four years.
And so, now, let's talk about the civilian casualties.
A key to this war is, it is still under Trump, too, Obama's policy of leading from behind.
In other words, pseudo-deniability, at least for American TV audiences, about who's Zooming who here, who's killing who.
But America backs, America's the world empire, the superpower that backs Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and al-Qaeda in this war against the Houthis all this time.
And we know from Martha Mundi and other experts at all the different NGOs and everything, this is a deliberate war of starvation.
It is a war against the infrastructure, the civilian infrastructure of the country.
Hospitals, waterworks, electricity, grain silos, flocks of sheep in the fields, irrigation systems.
It's a deliberate war against the civilian population of the country.
And Nasser, the United Nations now says that at least 233,000 people have been killed.
And this is something that, of course, they denied and cite these ridiculous lowball numbers all these years.
10,000 people only had died through years and years of this.
And you reported the real higher numbers all along here.
If people will look at the New York Times, if you have the stomach for it, you should bear witness to when they finally went and covered it, Nasser took them to the hospital and showed them the children starving to death.
And you can bear witness to those pictures in the New York Times finally, as of last year, I guess.
So please tell us about the suffering of the people of Yemen at the hands of the United States of America and our Saudi and UAE allies here, Nasser.
It's a catastrophe.
It's a disaster.
But what can I say about this disaster that everybody knows in the world?
And after the United Nations called it the worst disaster, the worst humanitarian crisis in the world, I want to tell your audience in this great show that this disaster is made by Saudi Arabia, designed by Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates, and the American support.
Without the American support, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia would not have done it, would not have at least been able to make it this bad.
So we are talking about the worst humanitarian crisis, because people are starving to death.
The water resources are destroyed.
The food resources are destroyed deliberately, not only blockade.
They don't only not allow the food to get in Yemen, no, but they also destroy the food in Yemen, the water in Yemen, and the health, the hospitals in Yemen, to make disease, to make people die, because they wanted to win the war.
They couldn't win militarily, so they wanted to win it by killing, by starving people to death, by spreading the disease, by spreading the cholera, by spreading all these kinds of things.
But unfortunately, the resilience of Yemenis defeated them.
And you can see what happened after five years now, because now Yemenis, under the leadership of Houthi, retaliate.
They are more powerful than the beginning of this war.
They retaliate.
They strike Saudi Arabia with powerful drones, with ballistic missiles.
And now, for example, the airports.
There is an equation that was announced by the Yemenis under the Houthi leadership here in Sana'a, and they said, our airports for your airports, which means we would strike your airports, so we would strike your airports as you did strike our airports, which means now that the airports in the south of Saudi Arabia are under the missile and the drone attacks almost every day, almost every day, no single day passing without these airports in the south of Saudi Arabia, Jizan, Najran, and Asir, without these airports being hit by missile, by ballistic missiles, or by drone attacks.
This is now, this is the new equation.
And not only this, but also the Houthi declared this week that they are going to announce a new ballistic missiles and new more powerful drones only this week, very soon, because they want to show their enemies that they are making in Yemen deterrence weapons, ballistic missiles and drones.
Now, let me let me ask you, Nasser, because of course, all the propaganda is that any new weapons, drones or missiles or anything else that the Houthis are deploying against the Saudis here must be coming from Iran, which is the reason why we That this is this is this is something wrong.
And it is very easy to prove.
Because if you can't, if you can't get into Yemen, a pill of medicine, so how would you be able to to get into Yemen, a ballistic missile or drones or something like this?
This is something wrong, because they know that Saudi Arabia is blockading Yemen from all directions, from the sea, from the air, from the land and from everywhere.
So it's only Yemenis experts and Yemenis who are under the blockade because necessity made Yemenis to do all these things.
And if there is anything from Iran or from any other place in the world, it would be by email, it would be through software contact or methods, not not necessarily by coming to Yemen or because there is no single Iranian here.
In other words, money, you're saying they would be PayPal in you, but not arming you because they can't.
And that blockade, by the way, of course, is enforced by the US Navy, along with the Saudi Navy.
So if Iranian ballistic missiles are getting through some captains in trouble, you'd think but anyway, of course, it's not true.
And I'm sorry, because we're just out of time.
But I want to thank you so much for coming back on the show, Nasser.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your interest in Yemen.
Thank you very much.
All right, you guys, that's Nasser Araby.
His website is Yemen Alan.
That's Yemen now.com.
And he's a reporter out of Sanaa, Yemen.
I'm Scott Horton.
This is my show anti war radio.
I'm here every Sunday morning from 830 to nine on KPFK 90.7 FM in LA, you can find my full interview archive more than 5000 interviews now.
Going back to 2003 at Scott Horton.org.
Thanks.
See you next week.
